abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 If you read my previous thread, you'll see my boyfriend drunkenly told me he loved me around 2-3 months then a couple weeks later told me it was premature and while he loves things about me, he is not in love with me. That was painful, but I got over it and understood not everyone's definition of love is the same. Well, the relationship progressed and it's still going well. Now I've known him 7 months and we still haven't exchanged the "I love you." Funny thing is he ends all his calls that way with friends and family. I also hear him tell people, "I love you, man" in person a lot. So, I've heard those three little words a ton, just never directed at me. The other night he called. I knew he'd been drinking, but didn't know how much. He started to end the call by saying he loved me, but stopped short. I'm guessing it was instinct to end it that way then realized what he was doing and stopped himself? I later found out he didn't even remember calling me. I cannot decide if that's better or worse. Even drunk he stops himself from saying he loves me? Maybe it's worse? Aside from this, the relationship is great. I don't think I'd even care if he hadn't taken back the first "I love you." But because he did, it's become a thing. When will he say it? Does he feel it? What about now? Why isn't he saying it? I'm super confused and slightly annoyed that he throws it around with everyone but me. When he took back his I love you, I did tell him "You know this means I'll never say it to you first, right?" He said he understood.
Gaeta Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 After 7 months I don't think you should tip toe around this. * You tell him you love him and wait for a reaction. * You ask him how he feels about you * Do it while you are both sober. Maybe he is not there yet and can give this another couple of months. Meanwhile you are free to tell him you love him without expecting anything in return. You are in love and will just be expressing it. You are making a statement. You can do this even if he is not there yet. It feel terrible to love someone and not expressing it, at least relieve yourself and don't keep this bottled up inside anymore.
NuevoYorko Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 There really is no timeline or requirement for saying those words when people are dating, even if it's been for a long time. You say things like "the relationship is great." Are you actually in love with this guy, or do you just want to exchange these words as some type of official gesture?
sunshine2 Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 This is a tuff one. He doesn't love you now and might not ever feel that way. You have to decide if you can wait for him to possibly change his mind or if this is a deal breaker for you. I was with my X BF for 1 year and we never ever said it. I broke up with him for many reasons, but that was the first time a man I dated never said it to me and it was a very hard for me not to have any confirmation of his feelings, even a I really Like you would of been great, but that never happened either. I also didn't say it because I knew there was something not quite right. Its up to you where you take it from here. 1
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 After 7 months I don't think you should tip toe around this. * You tell him you love him and wait for a reaction. * You ask him how he feels about you * Do it while you are both sober. Maybe he is not there yet and can give this another couple of months. Meanwhile you are free to tell him you love him without expecting anything in return. You are in love and will just be expressing it. You are making a statement. You can do this even if he is not there yet. It feel terrible to love someone and not expressing it, at least relieve yourself and don't keep this bottled up inside anymore. Thanks for replying, Gaeta. You always have the best advice. This...this is frightening though. I already told him flat out when he took back that original I love you, "You know I can't say it first now, right?" So, there's that. And there's the fact that if he still can't reply with an I love you back, I will be heartbroken. I have even said, "You're wonderful" after a passionate kiss and he's left tongue-tied, so chances are he won't return it and then I will be crushed and anxiety maxed out. I should add that back in September we were at a wedding and we were in a disagreement (a very minor one in which a miscommunication happened). His best friend was drunk, mistook our talk for an argument and yelled "HE LOVES YOU. HE TOLD ME. HE LOVES YOU." This is the only reason I might think of saying it? Still the thought is scary. What would you do?
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 There really is no timeline or requirement for saying those words when people are dating, even if it's been for a long time. You say things like "the relationship is great." Are you actually in love with this guy, or do you just want to exchange these words as some type of official gesture? I know I love him for sure. I guess there's no real reason I need to tell him unless I think it would mean he'd tell me it back? I should add he's been getting drunk a lot on weekends lately and I wonder wtf is up with that.
Buddhist Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 When will he say it? Does he feel it? What about now? Why isn't he saying it? This is probably why he's making a conscious effort not to say it. Sue me for saying this but it's kind of cultural thing out there in the manosphere that telling a woman you love her is tantamount to sending her shopping for a wedding dress. Because you know, women can't just hear those words and not immediately want to march down the aisle the very next day, or pop out a kid this week. There's no fear quite like the fear that this may be the last time you'll ever date someone, be single, be master of your own ship etc. Marriage in some men's mind is the same thing as slavery. If this is your guy he might never say those words until and IF he has ring in his pocket. It's maybe just a hangup he has over those words in connection with women. Sure he can say this to his dog, mum, bro's fully knowing that none of them will get clingy on him and become a 'situation'.
Gaeta Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Thanks for replying, Gaeta. You always have the best advice. This...this is frightening though. I already told him flat out when he took back that original I love you, "You know I can't say it first now, right?" So, there's that. And there's the fact that if he still can't reply with an I love you back, I will be heartbroken. I have even said, "You're wonderful" after a passionate kiss and he's left tongue-tied, so chances are he won't return it and then I will be crushed and anxiety maxed out. I should add that back in September we were at a wedding and we were in a disagreement (a very minor one in which a miscommunication happened). His best friend was drunk, mistook our talk for an argument and yelled "HE LOVES YOU. HE TOLD ME. HE LOVES YOU." This is the only reason I might think of saying it? Still the thought is scary. What would you do? You sure he remembers you said that? (about you cannot say it first). Second question: how long are you ready to wait for an ILY? You've just reached 7 months, I probably would wait till after the Holidays, which would make it 8 months. Then after the Holidays I would want to start the new year knowing where my relationship of 8 months is standing. If he is not in love yet I don't think another 6 months would make a difference. I would not pursue.
Gaeta Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 I should add he's been getting drunk a lot on weekends lately and I wonder wtf is up with that. Does he get drunk on his own or he's out partying? How old is he? You are right to be concerned about this new pattern.
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 Does he get drunk on his own or he's out partying? How old is he? You are right to be concerned about this new pattern. He's 30. He only drinks with friends. Some night it's just watching movies with a friend while pounding beers. Some nights it's going to a show and doing shots. Most weekends I'm with him when he's doing it (which I like cause I can make sure he gets home safe). Good point about the holidays. He is inexperienced so I fear it could take him longer to feel 'in love.'
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 This is probably why he's making a conscious effort not to say it. Sue me for saying this but it's kind of cultural thing out there in the manosphere that telling a woman you love her is tantamount to sending her shopping for a wedding dress. Because you know, women can't just hear those words and not immediately want to march down the aisle the very next day, or pop out a kid this week. There's no fear quite like the fear that this may be the last time you'll ever date someone, be single, be master of your own ship etc. Marriage in some men's mind is the same thing as slavery. If this is your guy he might never say those words until and IF he has ring in his pocket. It's maybe just a hangup he has over those words in connection with women. Sure he can say this to his dog, mum, bro's fully knowing that none of them will get clingy on him and become a 'situation'. So he could love me but doesn't want to say it because I might get clingy?
frus69 Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Some men are not verbal. Some men express their love and care through actions. If the relationship is good and growing, cant you feel his love by the little things he's done for you? By the extra steps he takes to make you smile? My parents never say love you to each other yet they are married forever. Maybe he has a perfectly good reason not to say it. After all 7 months is still short. Why not talk to him if ILY is so important to you? His reaction may surprise you Don't fix it if it ain't broken. It be ridiculous if you break a strong (according to you) relationship off because he's not saying what you want him to say.
SwordofFlame Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 He's 30. He only drinks with friends. Some night it's just watching movies with a friend while pounding beers. Some nights it's going to a show and doing shots. Most weekends I'm with him when he's doing it (which I like cause I can make sure he gets home safe). Good point about the holidays. He is inexperienced so I fear it could take him longer to feel 'in love.' It's one thing to drink...it's another thing to drink to get drunk every weekend. The latter is a red flag. 1
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 It's one thing to drink...it's another thing to drink to get drunk every weekend. The latter is a red flag. Even if he drinks in a happy party-type way? He doesn't get angry or anything. It just looks like someone having the time of their life. But yeah. It's annoying all he forgets cause he drank.
SwordofFlame Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Even if he drinks in a happy party-type way? He doesn't get angry or anything. It just looks like someone having the time of their life. But yeah. It's annoying all he forgets cause he drank. I'm a regular drinker myself, have friends that drink just about every day, at home or out. They don't get drunk and neither do I, except on occasion.
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 I'm a regular drinker myself, have friends that drink just about every day, at home or out. They don't get drunk and neither do I, except on occasion. how many drinks do you drink a night on average? The last Friday we spent together he had at least 8 from 6pm-12am.
Buddhist Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 So he could love me but doesn't want to say it because I might get clingy? Could be. Or he might honestly not be there. 1
SwordofFlame Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 how many drinks do you drink a night on average? The last Friday we spent together he had at least 8 from 6pm-12am. If you're gonna be at a bar or a party for 6 hours, I'm honestly not surprised he drinks that many. I'm an introvert, I'm not gonna stay anywhere near that long at a bar or party. I'll usually have three drinks tops if I'm at a bar. Unless it's some special occasion to celebrate something.
Versacehottie Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 So he could love me but doesn't want to say it because I might get clingy? OR the version of that where you will be onto pushing for the next step. You will have "expectations". I think a lot of guys worry about this. Some more than others. Some because (and I do think this is what is going on here) they are acting or non-acting in response to you. You keep talking about your anxiety-- I think it's specifically relationship anxiety (or maybe that's just because it's what you speak about here). I think you think you are concealing it from him but it is much more obvious than you think. And for all intents and purposes, it's not only relationship anxiety but a need to push through and speed up all the various steps. You are constantly looking for reassurance and signals, proof that this is the ONE. It's blatantly obvious in your posts to us--there is no way he doesn't feel the pressure too. It doesn't take a brain surgeon or a person with a phd in psychology to realize that as soon as you get the next signal of reassurance (in the form of an i love you, I guess for now) you will be pushing for the the next form of reassurance, the next step. It's been your MO for a couple of guys and you keep acknowledging that it's your anxiety but fail to address it in a productive way. As an outsider, it seems like you are trying to get something from him that you can't give yourself. I'm bummed for you. I see you making the same mistakes or cloaking them in "new" scenarios when they are always designed to elicit the same thing from whichever guy is in your life. I think you might have a good thing with this guy but don't want to see you mess it up. For starters, did you just say he's drinking a lot? See, that's why you take a while to get to know someone and stop trying to push them to the next level and "sell" them on YOU. Change the focus. Try to determine if he is worthy of YOU. If you can change the focus to that (really and truly), it should alleviate some anxiety. In the meantime, get a good therapist, do the work required and let go of fear (which is what is fueling your anxiety). And? So what if he doesn't love you? I'm being extreme for effect: you will survive, you will move on, maybe it will be the best thing that ever happened to you. And you can tell him first, in spite of saying you wouldn't. Your anxiety is caused in part because you have put yourself in entirely reactive mode (i.e. you will say it back if he says it to you) yet at the same time you have an internal timeline that is tell you that you aren't on track with him and wanting an answer of "where is this going???". Put yourself in proactive mode: say it first. If he doesn't say it back or doesn't react the way you think or would like your bf of 7 (?) months to react, then speak to him about it and walk if what he has to say doesn't suit you. You are holding on for dear life and it's part of what's causing these problems. As always, good luck. 5
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 Well damn. You've just made me completely change my thinking. Him not saying it could be good because it has stopped me from pushing forward to the next stage out of anxiety. If he had said it earlier, this post would be me freaking it about him not discussing marriage. My therapist has said that my anxiety makes me want to reach a level before it's time. Like..."I feel he just does ____" then I can stop worrying. But there is no end. An I love you, a proposal, a kid...none of it are answers to anxiety. but what am I trying to get from him that I can't get on my own? I'm in therapy to stop sabatoging relationships because of my anxiety. I do think more about "does he like me?" than if I like him. I have therapy Wednesday. I'm gonna bring some of this up. Last time I mentioned the "I love you" I told her that I didn't know if he wanted to be with me because he hadn't said it. She replied "is he still with you? Yes? There's your sign" 2
Versacehottie Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Well damn. You've just made me completely change my thinking. Him not saying it could be good because it has stopped me from pushing forward to the next stage out of anxiety. If he had said it earlier, this post would be me freaking it about him not discussing marriage. My therapist has said that my anxiety makes me want to reach a level before it's time. Like..."I feel he just does ____" then I can stop worrying. But there is no end. An I love you, a proposal, a kid...none of it are answers to anxiety. but what am I trying to get from him that I can't get on my own? I'm in therapy to stop sabatoging relationships because of my anxiety. I do think more about "does he like me?" than if I like him. I have therapy Wednesday. I'm gonna bring some of this up. Last time I mentioned the "I love you" I told her that I didn't know if he wanted to be with me because he hadn't said it. She replied "is he still with you? Yes? There's your sign" Yep. So yeah that's what I continuously notice in your posts. I wouldn't say you are a clingy gf but you do act like someone who just wants to get married and have a baby. I've had some interesting conversations with my guy friends about this syndrome from a lot of women. I do think guys want to be chosen for who they are--not be put on some marriage/baby timeline of yours that has very little to do with them. They can act like it's not the problem because they have a hard to pinpointing it or speaking up about it, as that would just open up a huge can of worms even if they happened to be conscious of it. But basically if you are acting like you want to trap a guy in some way, his instinct is going to be to run and rebel (i.e. a nonexistent ILY). Given that part of your issue with this is driven by your anxiety, i think you just need to learn how to link what you are learning and dealing with in your therapy to what is going on in your life. I think you will be able to recognize some of the same things that you are bringing to her to discuss AFTER the fact, on your own and apply the techniques and philosophies to that before/during. So maybe it's just part of your learning process to recognize what is going on--what is a legit relationship problem and what is a you anxiety problem. Separately I do think 7 months is around the time that you would have heard it or expected to hear it--HOWEVER, nothing operates in a bubble. He is aware, undoubtedly of the person you are and your ways and that could be what is causing him to be reluctant. I wouldn't want an ILY that wasn't 100% genuine anyway--so ultimately it boils down to you--do you want in or out of this relationship and is this the measure by which you would judge that. In that case, I don't think so. Bad ONLY measure. Good relationship so far to keep seeing what will happen. Also it's human nature that if you back off of pushing someone (even subconsciously/hidden pushing), they often will give you what you have been hoping for. Anyway, talk to her about changing the focus for you. You can't control other people (which wishing you could causes you anxiety). You CAN control yourself: tell him what you think, that you love him or take an action. Stay or leave based on whether you think you are getting what you want. If things are as rosy as you paint them with him, I see no reason to leave yet. Also maybe in light of new info (accelerated drinking), maybe you should be reevaluating. One of the biggest mistakes girls make is that they are pushing so hard to be official, get the ILY, move in together, get engaged, that they wake up married to a loser. Pay attention. Make sure he's worthy of you. 4
Versacehottie Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Well damn. You've just made me completely change my thinking. Him not saying it could be good because it has stopped me from pushing forward to the next stage out of anxiety. If he had said it earlier, this post would be me freaking it about him not discussing marriage. My therapist has said that my anxiety makes me want to reach a level before it's time. Like..."I feel he just does ____" then I can stop worrying. But there is no end. An I love you, a proposal, a kid...none of it are answers to anxiety. but what am I trying to get from him that I can't get on my own? I'm in therapy to stop sabatoging relationships because of my anxiety. I do think more about "does he like me?" than if I like him. I have therapy Wednesday. I'm gonna bring some of this up. Last time I mentioned the "I love you" I told her that I didn't know if he wanted to be with me because he hadn't said it. She replied "is he still with you? Yes? There's your sign" Well your anxiety is a bottomless pit. I was gonna say that on your thread the other day. The one where again you wanted to get close to him but basically want to dump your problems on him. That's your anxiety brain telling you that would be a good measure of where you stand with him. I'll have to go back to that thread to comment properly and productively. I think there is a level of letting your partner into who you are and some of the things you go through but you should keep it in the present. I think people who say "my past made me this" etc etc come off as damaged people who live in their heads and not the present relationship. I also am quite sure that you want to dump that stuff on him to get reassurance again. All that is part of what you can't give yourself. You have evidence right in front of you that you were able to establish a successful relationship AFTER relationships that devastated you. Yet you aren't seeing it like that. Maybe you watch too many movies, books, heavy stuff. Guaranteed that is why your bf is trying to be supportive without really getting into it. There is the camp of people that is fine with damaged people and those that are not. You guys might be one of each in terms of belief systems. The truth is everyone is probably damaged in some way or another. But do some people bond through hashing and rehashing past damage and it turns a lot of people off. I suspect you are one of each type, which won't work if you insist on dumping this on him. I mean do you really want to be that person? And actually for you, i don't think it's the heaviness or airy fairy ness that some people bond over that is consuming you with this need. It's just your anxiety trying to find another outlet, another cry for help, reassurance via this route with your bf. Wrong bf for this. Bolded above: to put it most simply, you can rest assured that you will be fine with or without him and will make your way. Once you give yourself that from yourself you will be able to alleviate tons of your anxiety AND make better decisions. I mean we actually could just as easily be talking a non-anxiety person who is NOT desperate to be in a relationship through the current situation with his drinking and why should you put up with it at all. But an anxious person, desperate to move the relationship forward has already jumped to the end, decided for he's the one and is overlooking and not really considering his drinking, possibly overlooking a chance to make a good decision for yourself. Don't jump to the end. you are just at the place where you are dating, he's your boyfriend. You might love him, he might love you. He might drink too much, it may or may not be a problem. that's where you are at. Don't try to make it more or less, just hold it up to a standard of do you find it ok for you or not and be willing to speak up about it--not to control the other person, to let them know where you stand. I don't know if you are there yet. I would think you might take this out of context as I am saying talk to him about his reluctance to say it to you. That's not what i'm saying: I'm saying if it comes to where you are at a critical stage, you can let him know your position. and ask what his is. A critical stage is where you are thinking of ending it because you haven't heard ILY. Actually, to me, you have bigger issues on hand at the moment, with his drinking. I mean why do you want to be overcommitted to a person that potentially has a drinking issue-(again just for effect, I don't know one way or another) BUT this is how a non-anxious person with OPTIONS would be thinking. What you can give yourself is the reassurance you have been trying to get from him a ton of different ways. That you will be ok. You can provide yourself new options, new directions in life if this one doesn't work out. You will take good self-care to make sure you make good decisions along the way that will get you what you want. Edited November 21, 2016 by Versacehottie 3
Grey40 Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 It doesn't sound great. You said yourself "the relationship isn't great" and he's "not in love with you". 7 months isn't THAT long but how many days a week do you see each other? The feeling should most certainly be close to mutual at this point. I understand your pain, because you love him, but he doesn't feel quite the same way. To me it sounds like it's a little bit of fear of commitment on his part, a slight insecurity about making it more "serious". But, why continue to put yourself through this when 1)it's not mutual, he's not "feeling" it and 2) you're going to be putting in more effort than he's giving and you're going to get more hurt.
startingagain15 Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 My bf waited nearly 17 months to say it. I had said it a couple times during that time, and he would say "I think I love you too". He had a huge fear of those words though, due to an emotionally abusive spouse and messy divorce. Once or twice I expressed my frustration with him having such a hard time saying it and he would just ask me to give him more time. When he finally said it, he totally went all in, got super clingy and almost scared me away. I have been waiting for so long for him to finally say it, now that I've finally got him "loving me" I thought wth did I do? But it's evened out now in the last couple months and I think we will be okay. But for a while there I was thinking, be careful what you wish for! Hopefully the words just hold a lot of meaning for your guy and when he finally does say it you can be absolutely sure he really means it.
Author abby_tx Posted November 21, 2016 Author Posted November 21, 2016 My bf waited nearly 17 months to say it. I had said it a couple times during that time, and he would say "I think I love you too". He had a huge fear of those words though, due to an emotionally abusive spouse and messy divorce. Once or twice I expressed my frustration with him having such a hard time saying it and he would just ask me to give him more time. When he finally said it, he totally went all in, got super clingy and almost scared me away. I have been waiting for so long for him to finally say it, now that I've finally got him "loving me" I thought wth did I do? But it's evened out now in the last couple months and I think we will be okay. But for a while there I was thinking, be careful what you wish for! Hopefully the words just hold a lot of meaning for your guy and when he finally does say it you can be absolutely sure he really means it. That's kind of funny. I think I need to be patient. But I have mentioned to friends that when I hear it, it's going to feel so good because I know he's all in. 1
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