Affair sex dynamic in marriage

[Noirek]

Since I don't believe any man should attempt to reconcile with his WW this is easy: You don't try to fix it. She's made her choice and now you both have to live with it.

 

Your advice before was much better and far more open minded. Even saying "most" men would be better than this drivel. Many, many men are secure enough in themselves and their masculinity that they are able to reconcile without torturing themselves about it for 30 years. Many men on here have and are happy they did. As are their spouses and their children. To follow your one size fits all statement those happy marriages wouldn't be in exsistence. Those children wouldn't have both parents. Those lives would probably be worse off.

 

Men are not all the same and women are not all the same. As different as men are from women, men or from each other in personality, prefrences and coping skills.

[CommittedToThis]

Any sort of cheating should be it. End of story?

 

For me, personally, yeah. I'm just not into giving someone that level of forgiveness. I'll leave that to religious figures. Cheating is breaking the most serious promise one can make in life -- giving their heart and trust to another.

 

Anyone with the lack of morals to cheat on a trusted partner is not someone I am interested in associating with. Ever.

 

However, for the right couple, if they can get past it I would only imagine it would make their relationship stronger. But how often does this happen?

[drifter777]

Drifter, do you think it goes both ways? A woman should never reconcile with her wandering husband?

 

Any sort of cheating should be it. End of story?

 

I know that is how some people handle things - but others are able to reconcile and are happy that they did.

 

I'm a man and never pretend I understand women OR try to advise them on any subject.

[drifter777]

Your advice before was much better and far more open minded. Even saying "most" men would be better than this drivel. Many, many men are secure enough in themselves and their masculinity that they are able to reconcile without torturing themselves about it for 30 years. Many men on here have and are happy they did. As are their spouses and their children. To follow your one size fits all statement those happy marriages wouldn't be in exsistence. Those children wouldn't have both parents. Those lives would probably be worse off.

 

Men are not all the same and women are not all the same. As different as men are from women, men or from each other in personality, prefrences and coping skills.

 

It's about the chances of a real reconciliation. The kind where a man truly forgives and has peace of mind regarding what she did. I think the chances of that are so small as to be not worth the painful time and effort of reconciliation.

 

The only exceptions that I make are for men who don't care about the sexual component of her cheating OR the men that are turned on by her having sex with another man. And as far as men who cheat or have cheated I simply don't care about them or their stories.

[CommittedToThis]

He wants you to make him feel sexy like you did the OM.

 

Which is, of course, impossible.

 

BH wants to feel sexually desirable by WW like the OM was, but BH will never be able to live up to the fantasy of the OM, so no matter what WW does to BH, sexually, it will likely remind him of OM and, of course, everything BH isn't.

 

WW has proven BH isn't enough for her by cheating. Maybe BH will feel like she's doing new sex acts out of obligation to him, but feels she really loved it with OM.

 

It's a vicious circle.

 

It takes a certain type of person to accept a cheater back into their lives, and the percentage of successful reconciliations is certainly not an encouraging factor.

[Noirek]

For me, personally, yeah. I'm just not into giving someone that level of forgiveness. I'll leave that to religious figures. Cheating is breaking the most serious promise one can make in life -- giving their heart and trust to another.

 

Anyone with the lack of morals to cheat on a trusted partner is not someone I am interested in associating with. Ever.

 

However, for the right couple, if they can get past it I would only imagine it would make their relationship stronger. But how often does this happen?

 

Actually fairly often. Infidlity is common. It happens more than you hear about. Many couples keep it themselves or only talk about it with close friends. Fewer seek online forums. The dramatic stories you hear about can often give people their judgements about it but the quieter played out stories are the ones you don't know even happen. My best friend was cheated on 8 years ago and is still with her husband. (Did not know until after my own). My husband's best friend was cheated on over 10 years ago and is still with his wife. My uncle was cheates on by his wife 10 years ago and they are still together. Another uncle was cheated on and he wanted to try to work it out but his wife did not. I really could go on. And knowing that many people keep these things between the couple I know there are those that you have no idea it has even happened to them.

[Noirek]

I'm a man and never pretend I understand women OR try to advise them on any subject.

 

Well I am a woman but I could never be so arrogent as to speak for my entire gender. I most certainly so not understand ALL women.

[Zenstudent]

I guess we're all different. I'm 5 years plus from d-day, the thought and images of my wife f..... A friend of the family still repulsed me. If that makes me insecure, so be it - I bet I'm not in minority with this.

 

For op, I tested my wife by asking her for all the stuff she did with om that she never did with me. Had she said no, I would have divorced her on the spot.

 

She did it without me demanding it, and with no negative comments at all.

 

It's up to you to assess what kind of man your husband is and act accordingly. My guess is that he is not that different from me in this aspect.

[BluesPower]

CommittedToThis...

 

You know if she wants to she could try. I am not sure that is true.

 

When you get out of the affair fog, and you get your mind right about your partner, the sex can be way better that it was.

 

Also, for most women, it is the emotional connection that makes it hot for them.

 

If she does not try, she is toast. If she is not an enthusiastic and giving partner after an affair while trying to save her marriage, she never will be.

 

But maybe you are right???

[Wade Lamare]

Since I don't believe any man should attempt to reconcile with his WW this is easy: You don't try to fix it. She's made her choice and now you both have to live with it.

 

I don't know how to word this without making it seem as though I am criticising you. Please believe me, I'm not. But I am puzzled.

 

You state this belief and yet you have been in reconciliation, albeit patchy, with a woman who gave it up during her affair. But when the affair was over she reverted to perfunctory sex with you once in a blue moon. And you've been in reconciliation with this woman for years.

(Apologies if it's not you and I'm thinking of somebody else.)

 

So do you not think that if the OP can turn this around, ride her husband like Sea Biscuit, swallow, do anal, swing from the chandeliers or whatever the 'things' that she did with the OM were and enjoy it, or at least fool her BH into thinking she enjoys it that she has a chance of reconciliation?

 

Personally I agree with some of the other posters here, unless her attitude changes this marriage is toast.

[drifter777]

Well I am a woman but I could never be so arrogent as to speak for my entire gender. I most certainly so not understand ALL women.

You are just trying to bait me - leave me alone. I don't believe or respect a word you write about anything or anyone.

[drifter777]

I don't know how to word this without making it seem as though I am criticising you. Please believe me, I'm not. But I am puzzled.

 

You state this belief and yet you have been in reconciliation, albeit patchy, with a woman who gave it up during her affair. But when the affair was over she reverted to perfunctory sex with you once in a blue moon. And you've been in reconciliation with this woman for years.

(Apologies if it's not you and I'm thinking of somebody else.)

 

So do you not think that if the OP can turn this around, ride her husband like Sea Biscuit, swallow, do anal, swing from the chandeliers or whatever the 'things' that she did with the OM were and enjoy it, or at least fool her BH into thinking she enjoys it that she has a chance of reconciliation?

 

Personally I agree with some of the other posters here, unless her attitude changes this marriage is toast.

 

First off - you don't know my story very well so maybe either read it or don't reference it.

 

I made a huge mistake by staying and compounded it by ignorantly hoping that somehow time would magically heal my wound. I don't want anyone else to make the same mistake.

 

Please don't say "why don't you leave now" because that is well documented.

[RecentChange]

Oh, so you got cheated on, made a mistake by staying, and still staying, therefore it's wrong for any man to stay.

 

Got it.

[dreamingoftigers]

First off - you don't know my story very well so maybe either read it or don't reference it.

 

I made a huge mistake by staying and compounded it by ignorantly hoping that somehow time would magically heal my wound. I don't want anyone else to make the same mistake.

 

Please don't say "why don't you leave now" because that is well documented.

 

EMDR helped a lot.

 

Better than wasting a bunch more of your partner's years with false reconciliation. Apparently us BSs can do false reconciliation too.

[WilyWill]

I, for one, appreciate those women who attempt to speak for all women, and I appreciate those men who speak for all men. I realize that the cliche "everyone is different" has some merit, but the truth is that many people of a gender share common feelings and motivations with other people of that same gender.

 

So, please, for the sake of those of us who would like to understand the opposite sex better, please continue to explain to us the general concepts of how your gender thinks and operates. Those explanations are worth a lot.

[CommittedToThis]

for the sake of those of us who would like to understand the opposite sex better, please continue to explain to us the general concepts of how your gender thinks and operates.

 

I'm a man and if I found myself in the OP's BH's place, I know that the image of my wife willingly, joyously engaging in sex acts with another man, stuff she'd never done with me or even mentioned before, would cause me to reassess how well I think I know my wife.

 

For me to stay with her and have to ask her to perform those same sex acts (the acts BH saw in WW's email trail with side stud) with me as she willingly did with OM would not work for me on a logical level. If she said no, I'd be rejected and if she said yes, I'd be forcing her into something she never wanted to do with me anyway.

 

As a man, picturing the woman I kept my dick in my pants for all those years f*cking someone else behind my back is a deal-breaker. She wants him, she can have him. I'm out.

[RecentChange]

The thing is, even though I am a woman, I can’t speak for all women.

 

I don’t think being “male” gives anyone the authority to speak for all males.

 

That’s why I am often careful to say for *ME* this is what works, or this is what I do, or this is my thought process. ME. I don’t know what is going on in another woman’s head.

 

And that’s why I speak of *MY* experiences – I can’t pretend to know the ins and outs of someone else’s unique experiences. When they share, I say *I* would do this – not “women do this”.

 

In the end, my experiences do not a line with all of this “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” stuff.

 

Women cheat for emotion, men cheat for sex – except for when they don’t.

 

If you look closely, many cheat for affirmation - both sexes.

 

I suppose I subscribe to a philosophy in line with Maya Aneglou’s “Human Family”

 

I note the obvious differences

between each sort and type,

but we are more alike, my friends,

than we are unalike.

 

We are more alike, my friends,

than we are unalike.

[elaine567]

I get the horny male thing and the competitive streak, and that the WS needs to "produce the goods", but is not the BH's attempt to reproduce what she did with the OM, not just bound to induce triggers and to set up the BH in a perhaps an unfavourable comparison situation.

 

Yes, the BH may do what the OM did, but now she can compare the two and frankly the OM may be way better as he is probably practiced and experienced in such acts.

Would it not be better to let sleeping dogs lie and for the BH to keep ploughing his own unique furrow, rather than try to emulate someone else?

[Wade Lamare]

First off - you don't know my story very well so maybe either read it or don't reference it.

 

I made a huge mistake by staying and compounded it by ignorantly hoping that somehow time would magically heal my wound. I don't want anyone else to make the same mistake.

 

Please don't say "why don't you leave now" because that is well documented.

 

Well I have read it thanks, no need for the attitude chap. In your own words;

 

This is long but these stories usually are. I have been a fairly active poster over the past couple months as I continue to recover from my wife's cheating.

Now it's been thirty years and this wound has not healed. I began seeing a psychologist a couple years ago and finally began to talk about this even though I still feel a tremendous amount of shame along with the anger and hurt.

 

You've also said this;

 

I'm in my 60's, as is my wife, and we don't have sex anymore. Well, maybe once a month she'll give me a blowjob but it has to be her idea.

 

So I may not have got the details correct but essentially you've been in reconciliation for 30 years and you have sex very rarely. I may not have hit it out the ball park for accuracy but close enough.

 

You quite rightly state that you have what are to you valid reasons for not leaving your wife right now.

 

Well, you know, so might he.

 

Why can you not see that just as you have valid reasons for remaining in your marriage so could he.

 

That's all I'm trying to get at!

[drifter777]

The thing is, even though I am a woman, I can’t speak for all women.

 

I don’t think being “male” gives anyone the authority to speak for all males.

 

That’s why I am often careful to say for *ME* this is what works, or this is what I do, or this is my thought process. ME. I don’t know what is going on in another woman’s head.

 

And that’s why I speak of *MY* experiences – I can’t pretend to know the ins and outs of someone else’s unique experiences. When they share, I say *I* would do this – not “women do this”.

 

In the end, my experiences do not a line with all of this “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” stuff.

 

Women cheat for emotion, men cheat for sex – except for when they don’t.

 

If you look closely, many cheat for affirmation - both sexes.

 

I suppose I subscribe to a philosophy in line with Maya Aneglou’s “Human Family”

 

I note the obvious differences

between each sort and type,

but we are more alike, my friends,

than we are unalike.

 

We are more alike, my friends,

than we are unalike.

 

Ok, fine. Don't speak for all women. I have the right to my opinion and you don't have to agree with me. Stop dragging this off topic.

[Mr. Lucky]

 

As a man, picturing the woman I kept my dick in my pants for all those years f*cking someone else behind my back is a deal-breaker. She wants him, she can have him. I'm out.

 

Just shows how different we all are, motivation included.

 

I keep my "dick in my pants" for me. I love my wife, would never want to jeopardize what we have...

 

Mr. Lucky

[CommittedToThis]

I keep my "dick in my pants" for me.

 

And I thank you for the courtesy, Mr. Lucky.

 

I used the "dick" phrase in jest, and the joke went limp.

[Zenstudent]

I get the horny male thing and the competitive streak, and that the WS needs to "produce the goods", but is not the BH's attempt to reproduce what she did with the OM, not just bound to induce triggers and to set up the BH in a perhaps an unfavourable comparison situation.

 

Yes, the BH may do what the OM did, but now she can compare the two and frankly the OM may be way better as he is probably practiced and experienced in such acts.

Would it not be better to let sleeping dogs lie and for the BH to keep ploughing his own unique furrow, rather than try to emulate someone else?

This isn't about him plowing his own furrow or not (the way I understand your point). BH is asking OP to make some room and space for pre-planned hotel sex and more frequent and liberated (in lack of a better word) sex at home (even when they have kids), and the OP is being reluctant.

 

I'm not saying this applies to all men, but to me, these "goods " are definitely not unreasonable to ask.

[lolablue17]

May I offer a different approach:

 

Your H makes his demands because: 1. He feels humiliated as a BH and has low self esteem. 2. He feels that he lost a part of his possession on you, the OM stole you from him.

 

So, he tries to find ways to feel better. His idea (for you to do the same things you did with OM ) has to goals: 1. to increase his status from a humiliated BH to an alpha male. 2. To get an approval that he owns you, meaning you must do as he says. If you obey (regardless of what you really wants), it will be a proof that you are his property again.

 

The problem with the 2 goals is that it won't really help him on the long term, and it will definitely won't help your marriage, it will only cause difficulties. Another problem is that as your spouse he can never be "an exciting stranger" for you. He can never compete that.

 

So I advice you to offer him something else. If you love him and wants him and has a real desire for him, go and tell him that what you had with OM is the past and now means nothing for you. Tell him that he means a lot more. and there for you want to create a different thing between you to a MUCH DIPPER AND MEANINGFUL THING THAN WHAT YOU HAD WITH OM.

 

What should he settle for less (what OM got), if he can have a lot more? offer him an exiting future with you. Now you're asking "OK, how do I manage to do all that?" I know it's hard work. You can do it only if you really love him, otherwise it won't hold for long, you cannot fake for so long.

 

There are enough books and professional advisers who can help you with ideas.

[wmacbride]

Thank you for the replies

 

What I was trying to ask was - due to the nature of my job I was able to take time away from my family and spend time in hotels with the OM when my H was holding the fort at home (deeply ashamed by this). Also the fact is I engaged in some acts which I never did with H but were mostly initiated by the OM (there is email and msg trails I wished my H never saw). I went along with them. Disgusting I know and I am not at all bragging about it. I have offered them to H although I am not sure I will like having that kind of sex within my marriage.

 

Our sex life before and post A is mostly confined to our home. Its been couple of months since DDay. Now H is coming out with the demand that I "treat" him to the same perks as OM got it. And I would love to. Just not sure how. Because we do not live where we have our extended families. And the friends we have are really good acquaintances, not people with whom I would trust my kids. Not even babysitters. Its a sickening feeling for my H to know that I had the safety net of him to look after our kids but that is exactly what is preventing us taking our time away in hotels. He says both of us (me and OM) had something to look forward to and be excited - to know we have booked a meeting at a hotel. He wants that. That anticipation.

 

Also since our marital sex life is mostly confined to our home, he feels we are "not free" to do as we like - loud moans, lounging naked, pillow talks without worrying about an early next day. It has gotten to the point where he is rejecting my advances. I admit I haven't responded well to his very reasonable feelings. I have been sarcastic in saying I would moan as loud as he wants and will stay naked on the bed after, don't care if our kids hear us or our kids need us. I am absolutely ashamed to have reacted this way but I am also feeling defeated.

 

This is starting to create conflict and I am really looking to help in any way he feels.

 

This may sound kind of out there, but I don't think this is really about sex ( it is but it isn't) . He's still hurting and feels the om was able to give you something he couldn't, and he wants to be able to do the same.