Should I believe my long term boyfriend?

[BluesPower]

My perspective, is that of a grown man with 3 kids Sweetfish.

 

Things have not changed that much. This dude is not 20, he is past grown.

 

And yes, 4 years is way past long enough to decide what you want.

 

She did not say she had to get pregnant today, but she needs to know what the future is and she has a right to know and make a decision accordingly.

 

Here is the thing that maybe you don't understand, fertility has an expiration date. It is much more difficult at 35 than it is 20-30. Way more difficult at 40 than 35.

 

Fact of the matter is that she does not have all day to wait around.

 

I have a hard time understanding where you are coming from. Did some women dump you because you would not commit or what?

 

How long to you thing that it takes to figure out if you want to be with a woman for the rest of your life?

[Sweetfish]

My perspective, is that of a grown man with 3 kids Sweetfish.

 

Things have not changed that much. This dude is not 20, he is past grown.

 

And yes, 4 years is way past long enough to decide what you want.

 

She did not say she had to get pregnant today, but she needs to know what the future is and she has a right to know and make a decision accordingly.

 

Here is the thing that maybe you don't understand, fertility has an expiration date. It is much more difficult at 35 than it is 20-30. Way more difficult at 40 than 35.

 

Fact of the matter is that she does not have all day to wait around.

 

I have a hard time understanding where you are coming from. Did some women dump you because you would not commit or what?

 

How long to you thing that it takes to figure out if you want to be with a woman for the rest of your life?

 

He is a grown man.. but not all men are chiseled the same way. Just like women are not. Committed fear men is nothing new.

 

It's quite obvious ... the fertility of a woman depletes over the years. This is not rocket science.

 

You talk about being a grown man.. have you not made mistakes in your relationship? Are you squeaky clean?

 

Should you be dumped for those mistakes or should you as a couple or unit try to work on fears or issues together.

 

No I did not lose someone to commitment.

I lost someone to poor communication.

 

Btw: Any guy can have a kid. That doesn't make him a man. He can also promise commitment. That doesn't make you a man. What makes you a man is being able to build from you adversities, become a better person, and learn as you progress thru life.

 

If this man is amazing as the OP expresses.. she will have the man and the child she wishes for.

 

If he isn't as amazing, she knows what to do.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Sweetfish

[sandylee1]

4 years is long enough to know what you want. If he doesn't. ... then fine ... he can move on and so can you.

 

You could her back with him and 3 years in he finally realises he doesn't want kids. Your most fertile years meanwhile just pass you by.

 

It's not his fault he's uncertain, but you don't need to wait for him to decide.

 

I personally think it's cruel to string someone along knowing what they want. After 4 years and you weren't teenagers when you started he should know.

 

Your decision was right the first time.

[sandylee1]

OP,

 

You're sounding terribly defensive with Blues and if you've made your mind up to go back with him, then do so. Its life and it's your choice. I just hope you don't find yourself in this same place in another 4 years. Time is one thing you can't get back.

 

People are offering their views based on their own relationship experience, but you choose to shoot them down.

 

If you only want this one man, why even post when it's a done deal.

[BluesPower]

Actually Sandy, I think SweetFish is the one that may have trouble with my black and white approach but he is not the OP.

 

And of course he is entitled to his opinion as well, but I think you and I agree on this, OP will have to make her own mind up.

 

I guess we will see...

[Mr. Lucky]

He telling me not right now but not never.

 

Sounds like you've already made up your mind. Nothing wrong with that.

 

You do have plenty of time to decide when children would make the most sense. But is there a reason why, after 4 years and a break-up, he's not actively talking about marriage?

 

Forget about children, is he ready to commit to you ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[lucy_in_disguise]

I think many posters are being needlessly harsh on the OP and her bf. First of all, he never said he didn't want kids, just that he was scared and not sure about the timing. This is a pretty natural position imo for many people in their twenties or even early thirties, especially for someone still in school and not financially settled. Kids are expensive and time-consuming- I think it is actually responsible for OP and her bf to consider these things prior to becoming parents. Just being together for 4years doesn't guarantee they are ready.

 

Secondly, the OP herself states she isn't ready right now. So, reminding her about her fertility isn't really serving a purpose besides adding to her anxiety.

 

Imo, the issue I see is poor communication. You needed to instigate a breakup in order to even get this issue on the table. All the while, neither of you have really changed your stance. You still want kids "in a few years", he still wants them "at some point in the future". I think you need to discuss these things in much further detail to determine if you're on the same page.

[elaine567]

...neither of you have really changed your stance. You still want kids "in a few years", he still wants them "at some point in the future". I think you need to discuss these things in much further detail to determine if you're on the same page.

 

I agree.

There is an assumption being made here that "a few years" equates to "sometime in the future" and that may be completely wrong.

He is still at college. He may envisage getting settled in his career, getting a promotion or two, buying a suitable house and then starting a family but all that may take him 10-15 years, and whist as a man he has all the time in the world, the OP doesn't. In 10 years she is late thirties in 15, she is in her forties.

At that stage, he can always pick up an early thirties woman to have kids with, whereas she will find it difficult to have the kids she wants.

She needs to pin him down here, and as nothing essentially happened when she tried to do that before, I am not particularly hopeful as to the long term outcome here.

[lucy_in_disguise]

I agree.

There is an assumption being made here that "a few years" equates to "sometime in the future" and that may be completely wrong.

He is still at college. He may envisage getting settled in his career, getting a promotion or two, buying a suitable house and then starting a family but all that may take him 10-15 years, and whist as a man he has all the time in the world, the OP doesn't. In 10 years she is late thirties in 15, she is in her forties.

At that stage, he can always pick up an early thirties woman to have kids with, whereas she will find it difficult to have the kids she wants.

She needs to pin him down here, and as nothing essentially happened when she tried to do that before, I am not particularly hopeful as to the long term outcome here.

 

While this is a possibility, none of us knows what "in the future" means for him. OP should not make assumptions either way, but have discussions to figure it out.

 

Also, it's not entirely accurate that men have "all the time in the world". The issue of fertility is not as black and white for men as it is for women, but infertility issues are equally common between genders, and quality of sperm also decreases with age. Not to mention, many men don't want to have their first child in their 40's or 50's.

 

Meanwhile, statistics cited about female fertility are often based on very old data, and are misleading. For example, "fertility decreases by 50%" sounds scary, but in reality, what this means is your probably of getting pregnant in a given year is 50% lower. The actual likelihood of being able to conceive is not as significantly decreased. The fact is that most women are able to have kids into their late 30's, and many into their 40's, even without medical help. I sometimes feel like the way female fertility stats are presented is rather sexist, and intended to make women anxious.

Edited November 15, 2016 by lucy_in_disguise

[Got it]

sorry, but havuing a baby means only one wage, his, coming in for a few months, and as he is just at college, he needs to get a job and keep it

 

a heavy load awaits him, you as a mom with time off for the baby may not get a job on demand, don't make him "fight" on top of that

 

Why are you assuming that? That is not the case and many are offered maternity leave and/or short term disability. So assuming one wage is erroneous.

 

I was out for 4 months of maternity leave fully compensated.

[Got it]

My perspective, is that of a grown man with 3 kids Sweetfish.

 

Things have not changed that much. This dude is not 20, he is past grown.

 

And yes, 4 years is way past long enough to decide what you want.

 

She did not say she had to get pregnant today, but she needs to know what the future is and she has a right to know and make a decision accordingly.

 

Here is the thing that maybe you don't understand, fertility has an expiration date. It is much more difficult at 35 than it is 20-30. Way more difficult at 40 than 35.

 

Fact of the matter is that she does not have all day to wait around.

 

I have a hard time understanding where you are coming from. Did some women dump you because you would not commit or what?

 

How long to you thing that it takes to figure out if you want to be with a woman for the rest of your life?

 

In a very simplistic manner this is maybe correct but a lot of broad brushing.

 

First off, I get the OP's boyfriend's stance. I did not even consider having kids, even play with the idea, until I hit 30 at best. At 4 years into my first marriage I would have been decidedly not interested in children. That is obviously not my life's path though. My first husband wasn't interested in having children when I began broaching the subject, he cited fear as well. For multitude of reasons we divorced. He has remarried and has two kids.

 

For him, it came down to not ready to have kids with me. He was mid 30s at the point of having children.

 

For myself, while I was now lukewarm on having kids, it wasn't until my (now) husband when I realized how much I wanted to have a child WITH him. But he, and our relationship, is my top priority as I have never wanted a child just to have a child. It was a life experience I wanted to share with him. It was something between us that I wanted.

 

The OP's boyfriend could be somewhere in either of these scenarios or his own reasoning.

 

In regards to fertility, having gone down the road of IVF, it is a very big broad brush to say fertility is worse with age. While yes that is correct, what it is broad brushing is that fertility is okay up to 25. Or 30. or 35. When, in fact, many realize they have had fertility issues since they were 18. That they had a low sperm count or low egg count that has been like that so no matter what age they were trying to conceive it is an issue.

 

And others realize that it isn't such a bad scenario. I didn't try to conceive until I was 38. We did IVF because of his vasectomy. What I discovered is I have a very high egg count and should not have any issues conceiving naturally even now at almost 40.

 

I work with a young lady who is in her mid 20's. No issues up to this point but they couldn't conceive. She finally went in for fertility treatments and realized she doesn't have many eggs left. They are now looking at adoption.

 

What I am trying to state that I think, to some degree, it is a fallacy to hang everything on offspring. One doesn't know if it can even happen and the romantic relationship should be the top focus. That is the foundation of the house and without it the house crumbles. If you are focused on having a child, and go seeking someone with just that priority in mind, one may realize they wouldn't have found someone else, or you got a whole lot of negatives with the only positive of having produced offspring.

 

What is the hill to die on? A loving, very satisfying romantic relationship? Or the certainty of offspring (to whatever extent that can be assessed)?

 

I say, give your boyfriend a chance, go to a therapist and you two talk to them, see where he truly stands and then where you stand. There may be a pathway forward or you two will definitively know that this is the end of the road.

 

If one wants to learn more about fertility issues and ways to deal with them, I highly recommend http://www.shadygrovefertility.com as a great resource.

[Eternal Sunshine]

While this is a possibility, none of us knows what "in the future" means for him. OP should not make assumptions either way, but have discussions to figure it out.

 

Also, it's not entirely accurate that men have "all the time in the world". The issue of fertility is not as black and white for men as it is for women, but infertility issues are equally common between genders, and quality of sperm also decreases with age. Not to mention, many men don't want to have their first child in their 40's or 50's.

 

Meanwhile, statistics cited about female fertility are often based on very old data, and are misleading. For example, "fertility decreases by 50%" sounds scary, but in reality, what this means is your probably of getting pregnant in a given year is 50% lower. The actual likelihood of being able to conceive is not as significantly decreased. The fact is that most women are able to have kids into their late 30's, and many into their 40's, even without medical help. I sometimes feel like the way female fertility stats are presented is rather sexist, and intended to make women anxious.

 

I agree with this. At my work we were offered a free fertility test to tell you up until what age you will be able to have children. I decided to do it just for the hell of it, and I still have 7 years of fertility left (will be in early 40s by then) - I don't want children though. Many career oriented women have children in their late 30s and early 40s. It's not all doom and gloom. People live longer and women are fertile for longer. In fact, it seems kind of silly to me and overly fatalistic that OP's biological clock is already ticking in late 20s. In reality, she probably has time for 2 other LTRs if this one doesn't work. Failing that, she can at any point in time take the matter into her own hands and have a child without a LTR.

 

People are quick to suggest to find someone who wants kids immediately. I am sure there are many guys that do but what about the connection and the love? It's not that simple. I am quick to suggest to people to move on when there is lying, cheating, poor treatment and lack of love involved. This is a different situation though. As for a clear plan mapped out for the next x years? The guy is still finishing college! Just reading this thread and advice gives me anxiety, I can imagine how it feels for him.

[Roxychic87]

I have not made my decision yet. It has been 2 weeks since he last reached out to me and I told him I needed time to think about us and our relationship. I really do appreciate all the advice I have gotten. Even though I have gotten so much anxiety from reading most of the comments, feeling pressured about "locking him down". Marriage isn't something you rush into, like children. Yes I am 29 years old, going on 30. My bf will be 28 soon. I'm not ready to get marrried at the moment or have kids at the moment and that might seems "late" or "too long" to some of you. I moving at the pace I'm comfortable with. I do want to marry him and have children and I need to talk with him more about his timeline. I know he wants to move in which is a big commitment in itself. But I need to figure out from him what his plans are for us after that. If he doesn't know or can't give me an answer then I am fully prepared to walk away. I just feel I neeed to give him a chance to express his concerns and fears with me more and give him a chance to work on them.

[Roxychic87]

Well if I was to stay with this man and we move in together I would like to live with him for atleast a year or two before thinking about marriage. Then being married for a few years before having children. So having children around my mid 30's. that would be a sensible timeline for me. Whether he agrees with this is something I need to find out. If I do not stay with him this timeline could be much later.

[Mr. Lucky]

Well if I was to stay with this man and we move in together I would like to live with him for atleast a year or two before thinking about marriage. Then being married for a few years before having children. So having children around my mid 30's. that would be a sensible timeline for me. Whether he agrees with this is something I need to find out.

 

Roxychic87, if you have a boundary that's a dealbreaker to you - you want to be married to him and start a family - then you need to think of the steps in that direction.

 

Moving in with him without a more formal commitment to you and lacking agreement on an important issue like children isn't one of those steps.

 

Hate to see you in 7-10 years writing one of those "wasted the best years of my life" posts ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[sandylee1]

Actually Sandy, I think SweetFish is the one that may have trouble with my black and white approach but he is not the OP.

 

And of course he is entitled to his opinion as well, but I think you and I agree on this, OP will have to make her own mind up.

 

I guess we will see...

 

My mistake Blues. I guess my stance is different and I see it as being rather wishy washy. Because I've always known I wanted kids once I found the right man, any man who wasn't on the same page as me would have been out of the door.

 

I wanted a man who knew he wanted children, without any persuasion. It's too serious a matter to not be sure about.

 

And many men will not give you a definite "No. I don't want kids". They just hope you'll come round to not wanting them, or waste enough of your fertile years, so you can't have any.

 

It's the same as marriage. They say "Yes. In the future. I'm not opposed to marriage " and women take this as something he will do in the future. Only they wait years and years. Then they start thinking .." We better have a child before it's too late. We can get married anytime"

 

Thing is. ..Once the kids arrive ...What's the motivation to get married, for a man who wasn't that keen in the first place. Except now, you as the woman has kids and has to suck it up ... or leave and break up the family unit.