Chivalry

[darkmoon]

Must be a pain to have to open doors for women all the time.

 

Or are men just chivalrous to girls they date or hope to date?

 

And even then - do girls need to have this fuss made of them?

 

Do men get fed with being chivalrous?

[mrs rubble]

Must be a pain to have to open doors for women all the time.

 

Or are men just chivalrous to girls they date or hope to date?

 

And even then - do girls need to have this fuss made of them?

 

Do men get fed with being chivalrous?

 

Some men were taught to be chivalrous, and it is a natural part of their persona.

My son's are an example of this. I don't believe they tire of it, rather they're respected for their manners and take pride in being gentlemanly.

 

My fiancé is the type to open doors and carry bags. I'm independent and strong, he gets totally annoyed with me if I don't let him do things for me.

 

I think it's sweet and I'm proud of my son's for being chivalrous young men.

[Els]

The opening door thing is such a small issue, I can't see how it would be a 'huge pain'. When I'm out with just my elderly grandmother or even my mother, I open doors and carry stuff for them all the time. It barely takes a few seconds of time and effort, and you don't go through THAT many doors a day. It takes less effort than, say, maintaining one houseplant. Frankly shaving my legs is about 100x more annoying.

 

I think that if you talk to guys who subscribe to traditional notions of manliness, you will find they have much bigger problems on their mind than door-opening. For instance, having to provide and protect. And, of course, guys who prefer not to adhere to tradition would find this a moot point (though they would encounter problems of their own).

Edited November 5, 2016 by Elswyth

[basil67]

To me, chivalry is about good manners. And in these days of gender equality, it should not be gender specific. I think it's about caring for those around you and helping when required. I don't want a man who treats me well because I'm a woman, I want a man who treats everyone well.

 

Have a look at all the people (aged, disabled, pregnant, toddlers) who need seats on a bus and all the people of both genders who don't even look around to offer. Such a complete lack of chivalry on their part. Likewise, those motorists who honk their horns at others who may be slow crossing the road due to similar reasons. Or those who don't let fellow motorists merge. Or who yell obscenities at someone who makes a mistake on the road or in a customer service situation.

 

I have no issues with a woman who expects her man to be chivalrous towards her. But if she was the type to sit in a bus seat with her nose in her phone and not look around to see if someone needs her seat more? I'd call her a selfish hypocrite.

[Shining One]

I don't subscribe to chivalry, but I believe in just being "good" to people in general. When I get to a door, I'll hold it open for anyone nearby, not just women. If someone is struggling with something heavy, I'll offer to help. If someone on a bus/train needs a seat more than I do, I'll offer them mine. Speaking for myself, I think chivalry should die and be replaced with a modern "code of honor" that encourages good treatment of everyone.

 

I don't get tired of doing these things. I do get tired of some women's sense of entitlement to special treatment though.

[basil67]

I don't subscribe to chivalry, but I believe in just being "good" to people in general. When I get to a door, I'll hold it open for anyone nearby, not just women. If someone is struggling with something heavy, I'll offer to help. If someone on a bus/train needs a seat more than I do, I'll offer them mine. Speaking for myself, I think chivalry should die and be replaced with a modern "code of honor" that encourages good treatment of everyone.

 

I don't get tired of doing these things. I do get tired of some women's sense of entitlement to special treatment though.

 

Shining One, I couldn't agree with you more

[Osmium13]

I don't subscribe to chivalry, but I believe in just being "good" to people in general. When I get to a door, I'll hold it open for anyone nearby, not just women. If someone is struggling with something heavy, I'll offer to help. If someone on a bus/train needs a seat more than I do, I'll offer them mine. Speaking for myself, I think chivalry should die and be replaced with a modern "code of honor" that encourages good treatment of everyone.

 

I don't get tired of doing these things. I do get tired of some women's sense of entitlement to special treatment though.

 

I agree with all of that - apart from the last sentence! Not that I think anyone should have a sense of entitlement. I just enjoy helping women more than I enjoy helping men. Especially if they happen to be... well... nice-looking women

[Gloria25]

It's not just with dating, it's that people in general are lacking social graces. Well, and yea, since when it comes to dating people are now "partners" I guess women can open the door for themselves.

 

It's upsetting and sad. My mum works in customer service and the way many people - including young people - speak to her and deal with her is just down right disgusting.

 

The other day I was in a store and needed help. I went to an older lady who was clueless. I wanted to tell her off, but politely smiled, thanked her and moved on. That's what you do, you treat people with dignity and respect. Well, my older troublemaking neighbors still get the one finger salute.

 

But no, I never tire of showing basic social graces. I say "thank you", "please", I open doors for older people. Geesh, the other day I was helping this lady with kids push her shopping cart.

 

Sad that many people are just savages now a days and could care less to sit back and analyze if their behavior makes sense.

[SammySammy]

I open doors for everybody. Male, female, young, old - if you're close enough - I'll hold the door and let you go ahead of me. That's just how I was raised.

 

Funny thing is the only people who have a problem with it are women. Particularly young or middle-aged women. I guess the one's who identify themselves as feminists. They can be downright nasty about it. Rude and ugly.

 

Which is why some guys don't do it anymore.

 

But, down South ... we open doors for people. Say yes ma'am and yes sir. Please and thank you. Or our mothers and grandmothers would "get" us. That's just how we were raised.

 

At least the people from my generation were.

[Fair]

I don't get tired of doing these things. I do get tired of some women's sense of entitlement to special treatment though.

 

Really? Give an example of the "special treatment" they expect. Women want to be treated fairly. That's not special treatment... and no, this is NOT the age of equality, as someone else said. Women haven't achieved that yet by far.

 

Chivalry... hmm. If opening a door for a woman is considered chivalrous these days, then it really is dead.

 

Good manners is what you mean, but these day it seems plain old fashioned good manners really are considered "chivalrous" --- comparable to dashing into a burning building to save someone. No one thinks it's their responsibility to do it.

[grays]

I open doors for everybody. Male, female, young, old - if you're close enough - I'll hold the door and let you go ahead of me. That's just how I was raised.

 

Funny thing is the only people who have a problem with it are women. Particularly young or middle-aged women. I guess the one's who identify themselves as feminists. They can be downright nasty about it. Rude and ugly.

 

Which is why some guys don't do it anymore.

 

But, down South ... we open doors for people. Say yes ma'am and yes sir. Please and thank you. Or our mothers and grandmothers would "get" us. That's just how we were raised.

 

At least the people from my generation were.

 

I think of myself as a serious feminist, but I am always happy to have a man go out of his way a little bit to be polite and friendly. I'd never expect or require it. But it's just nice. And I do especially like that southern thing.

[BluesPower]

It is just the proper way to do things, especially here is Texas.

 

Sure, women could open their own doors and carry their own stuff, but not when I am around.

 

It is a sight of respect that men should have for all women, it is just the way that it is done.

 

Women should always be put first, cherished, and respected.

 

I think maybe I am old fashioned though.

[Shining One]

Really? Give an example of the "special treatment" they expect.

Here are a few that come to mind that I see on a regular basis at work and after-work events.

• Some women expect to be let on and off elevators first.
  
• Some women expect any manual labor to be handled by a man.
  
• Some women expect their entertainment expenses to be handled by men.
  
• Some women expect doors to be opened for them. I've seen some get to a door first and wait for a man to open it.
  
• Some women expect men to give up their seats for them.
  

Women want to be treated fairly. That's not special treatment.

How would you define fairly? If the treatment is strictly from one specific gender to another, then it is special.

[Gaeta]

 

Must be a pain to have to open doors for women all the time.

 

Or are men just chivalrous to girls they date or hope to date?

 

And even then - do girls need to have this fuss made of them?

 

Do men get fed with being chivalrous?

 

Chivalry falls in the same category as courtesy, politeness, altruism.

 

When you were raised to be helpful and to find joy and contentment in helping others than no, gestures of chivalry is not a pain but and act that gives you pleasure.

 

Each time I offer my seat in the metro it gives me pleasure, not pain.

 

Each time my BF holds the door or carry my bags it gives him pleasure to do it for me, not pain.

 

Here in Canada we have a reputation of being overly polite and I would not change it for anything else. Even in my big city of 4 million each day people holds door for me, hold elevators and wait up for me, offer me their seats or I offer them mine.

 

I wonder why you'd think doing something nice for someone would be a pain

[GravityMan]

Holding doors open is just a common courtesy, and so is giving up your seat on the bus for someone else who needs it more (an elderly man, a woman holding a baby, etc.). It's not gender specific. A colleague of mine who works at a different company made the snap decision not to hire this one candidate because the guy (who was leaving after finishing his interview) didn't hold the door open for an employee who was walking behind him. Not hiring him turned out to be a wise decision for reasons I won't get into. Oftentimes, the little things are symptoms of much bigger underlying problems.

 

I open doors for everybody. Male, female, young, old - if you're close enough - I'll hold the door and let you go ahead of me. That's just how I was raised.

 

Funny thing is the only people who have a problem with it are women. Particularly young or middle-aged women. I guess the one's who identify themselves as feminists. They can be downright nasty about it. Rude and ugly.

 

Which is why some guys don't do it anymore.

 

But, down South ... we open doors for people. Say yes ma'am and yes sir. Please and thank you. Or our mothers and grandmothers would "get" us. That's just how we were raised.

 

At least the people from my generation were.

 

Real feminists (i.e. those who understand what feminism actually is) have no problem with guys that hold open doors for them. They're appreciative of it. The women who are nasty and hateful about having the door held open for them give feminism a bad name.

 

That said, there is a line that guys shouldn't cross when it comes to holding doors open and other courteous actions and gestures. Using good judgment is sensible.

[SammySammy]

Holding doors open is just a common courtesy, and so is giving up your seat on the bus for someone else who needs it more (an elderly man, a woman holding a baby, etc.). It's not gender specific. A colleague of mine who works at a different company made the snap decision not to hire this one candidate because the guy (who was leaving after finishing his interview) didn't hold the door open for an employee who was walking behind him. Not hiring him turned out to be a wise decision for reasons I won't get into. Oftentimes, the little things are symptoms of much bigger underlying problems.

 

 

 

Real feminists (i.e. those who understand what feminism actually is) have no problem with guys that hold open doors for them. They're appreciative of it. The women who are nasty and hateful about having the door held open for them give feminism a bad name.

 

That said, there is a line that guys shouldn't cross when it comes to holding doors open and other courteous actions and gestures. Using good judgment is sensible.

 

Please explain.

[darkmoon]

Chivalry falls in the same category as courtesy, politeness, altruism.

 

When you were raised to be helpful and to find joy and contentment in helping others than no, gestures of chivalry is not a pain but and act that gives you pleasure.

 

Each time I offer my seat in the metro it gives me pleasure, not pain.

 

Each time my BF holds the door or carry my bags it gives him pleasure to do it for me, not pain.

 

Here in Canada we have a reputation of being overly polite and I would not change it for anything else. Even in my big city of 4 million each day people holds door for me, hold elevators and wait up for me, offer me their seats or I offer them mine.

 

I wonder why you'd think doing something nice for someone would be a pain

 

a pain if a duty, possibly - I only asked, did not insist.

 

you say what your boyf does for you - what do you do for him? anything?

Edited November 6, 2016 by darkmoon

[Blackened Heart]

Holding the door open is such a minor thing and I in fact do it for both women and men. It's very rare that I will encounter anyone that doesn't give a thank you for doing so (this includes both genders) when I do though, I bust their balls right on the spot telling them loudly "you're welcome" with a slight smirk on my face. Oh the reactions I get sometimes lol.

[Gaeta]

a pain if a duty, possibly - I only asked, did not insist.

 

you say what your boyf does for you - what do you do for him? anything?

 

How can someone feel chivalry is a duty? The only way possible is if he-she were raised to be selfish beings and to only bother for themselves. Don't all of our moms taught us to say thank you? to be polite? to help old ladies? to help with bags?

 

I do many gestures of chivalry for my bf. In public: I grab the bill, I make sure he is comfortable and has everything he needs. I show respect and affection toward him and let him the man. I treat him like a gentleman. When we're out and people look at us they can tell I have love and respect for this man.

 

We say a man with chivalry is a man that knows how to treat a woman like lady. A woman with chivalry is a woman that knows how to treat a man like a gentleman.

[Shining One]

We say a man with chivalry is a man that knows how to treat a woman like lady. A woman with chivalry is a woman that knows how to treat a man like a gentleman.

We find lists all over the internet on what a man's role in chivalry is, but we don't see equally verbose lists for the woman's role. I don't see why we need complicated lists of who should do what for whom. To quote Bill S. Preston, Esq.: "Be excellent to each other." It should be that simple.

[Got it]

I expect both genders to have good manners. I hold doors open for men and women and there is nothing I expect my husband to do that I wouldn't do (or offer a trade off ). I like people who think about others, who are empathetic and polite.

[basil67]

We find lists all over the internet on what a man's role in chivalry is, but we don't see equally verbose lists for the woman's role. I don't see why we need complicated lists of who should do what for whom. To quote Bill S. Preston, Esq.: "Be excellent to each other." It should be that simple.

 

I love your quote.

 

Anyway, your comment about lists piqued my interest so I Googled. There are actually many, many lists about how women should treat men. Perhaps the difference is that men aren't inclined to read and share all those silly list things.

[carhill]

Must be a pain to have to open doors for women all the time.

Haven't experienced a pain yet and have been doing it, unremarkably, for decades.

 

Or are men just chivalrous to girls they date or hope to date?

Some are, sure. However, I will admit I trend to it more with older women who were socialized as I was and know the dance.

 

And even then - do girls need to have this fuss made of them?

'Fuss' is a perception. We each perceive interactions differently.

 

Do men get fed with being chivalrous?

Haven't yet. In fact, since making the choice to withdraw from the milieu of being married, I'm probably as or more attentive with strangers than prior. No worries about reciprocation or any interest (from them) springing from it. Think of it kind of like a woman perceiving a man as her brother rather than a romantic prospect. More relaxing and freeing.