What does this sound like ... ?

[merrmeade]

So picked up my husband's phone last night to look up something quick on the internet. Opened to message page with snippets of each text and persons name. I saw Lisa, a client, and message snippet. It's really quiet out here. Opened thread and saw he'd sent his mailing address because we've moved but added the 'really quiet out here' comment right after.

 

It sent off alarm bells for me. I think it's inappropriately familiar and not something he'd share with other clients.

 

Mind you, I do NOT think anything is going on, but it's the way - the inappropriately familiar way - he's interacted with all women (that are attractive and vulnerable) - in the past past (pre Dday).

 

I asked him in general about all his current clients and he mentioned last as someone who hasn't decided what she wants yet and started with needing a permit for a roof but keeps paying ... He mentioned where she lives, which is not too far from our new house. She's "in her fifties" and has a boyfriend in another city.

 

I looked at phone records (though need to confirm number when I get home) but their conversations are much longer than his others (10-30 mins vs 1-10 mins).

 

So while I don't think it's a conscious plan, I think he's doing his same old same old, i.e., dealing with women differently - with a slimy layer of flirting/suggestiveness; getting them to "like" him, enjoy his company; appealing to interests and developing familiarity/intimacy in a way he would not dream of doing with male or totally unavailable female clients.

 

Blech but, yes, I'm going to talk about it with him, but just on this much information - does it sound 'off' to anyone else?

 

Thanks.

[merrmeade]

It was not an ongoing topic that had come up before either. She answered later chattily that she liked the quiet having lived in NYC - iow, took up the conversation point.

 

Question is: Why the fk does anyone say "It's really quiet out here" to a client??

[l8estnews]

It was not an ongoing topic that had come up before either. She answered later chattily that she liked the quiet having lived in NYC - iow, took up the conversation point.

 

Question is: Why the fk does anyone say "It's really quiet out here" to a client??

 

Code for booty call/ coast is clear? I dunno. I suggest don't talk to him first. But open all your radars from now on until you find incriminating proof.

 

For me, something is up. There is no such thing as a small thing to be brushed off from someone who cheated before.

[aileD]

It does sound off to me but I don't think any things happening ..... yet. I think youre right that this is a pattern for him. I think if he were really doing something he would have a passcode or something on his phone.

 

You definitely need to have a conversation with him about boundaries and what you expect them to be with his clients especially the female ones.

 

I don't know your story so I'm just giving you my perception from your post.

 

I hope you caught it on time IT he need to learn how to edit himself. You shouldn't have to babysit

[VeveCakes]

I agree...don't confront until you get more evidence, it would only make him cover his tracks more.

 

If he has a history of cheating, maybe try a VAR.

[merrmeade]

I hope you caught it on time IT he need to learn how to edit himself. You shouldn't have to babysit

THIS is what bothers me. He STILL doesn't get this about himself??

 

I am absolutely sure nothing is happening more than getting too friendly and sending suggestive invitations - but THAT is something and not acceptable given the history.

 

What will be telling is how he takes it.

 

I needed to hear others' reactions bc I'm so close to it.

[aileD]

Do you guys go to counseling?

 

Might be good to bring up there and maybe counseler can help him realize he's (acting like) an idiot.

[ChickiePops]

Just to offer another perspective - ehhhhh..it doesn't sound like anything awful to me. And isn't it part of his job to be friendly to clients? I don't know what kind of business he's in but most of the time, when someone is classified as a client, it means that the sales person (your husband) is trying to make sure that he can keep his business ongoing with them. My landlord is chatty and friendly to me..because he wants me to stay in my building and keep paying rent there.

 

I don't know..I think maybe you might be a tad oversensitive because of the past. But if it makes you feel better to bring it up then you absolutely should. He cheated before so he opened himself up to mistrust and suspicion.

 

But I hope I'm right.

[Midlifecrisis1]

sounds to me like he was just saying it to this client because you guys have recently moved to a nearby area to where she lives and he was just making a comment. i wouldn't read into it.

[Southern Sun]

I have no idea what he does for a living, but maybe this comment has nothing to do with it (or maybe it does).

 

Why would he give her his mailing address? So she can mail him something? Or so she knows where he lives?

 

Maybe she's considering a move and he told her where he lives and he said, it's nice, "it's really quiet out here."

 

??

 

There's so many possibilities that are NOT bad.

[merrmeade]

Architect

She needed to mail something for project

[heartwhole]

I'm sorry, I don't know the particulars of your backstory here. Can you fill in a little?

 

That said, I know that in overcoming my extroverted, charming husband's infidelity, we've had to navigate how he interacts with women. It sounds like you've had to do the same. I know my husband now feels self-conscious about interacting with women, but there have still been times that he thought something was harmless that I did not. So we discussed and made tweaks, as it sounds like you will do.

 

The fact that he mentioned this woman and gives you access to his phone make me less concerned. Who knows what was going through his mind in the nanosecond he made that comment, but I doubt it has any significance.

 

It's not your job to patrol around waiting to catch potential affairs before they start. But it is reasonable to expect that he is open about all his interactions.

[merrmeade]

I have no idea what he does for a living, but maybe this comment has nothing to do with it (or maybe it does). ARCHITECT / NOTHING TO DO WITH HER PROJECT

 

Why would he give her his mailing address?

So she can mail him something?

YES, THERE WAS A DOCUMENT

Or so she knows where he lives

ÔR SO I'M WONDERING .

 

Maybe she's considering a move and he told her where he lives and he said, it's nice, "it's really quiet out here." NO, HE IS DESIGNING A REMODEL OF HER CURENT DWELLING

 

??

 

There's so many possibilities that are NOT bad.

Answers to questions in all caps

[olivetree]

I am assuming there was no message before it, so you can't see the context of his comment.

 

Perhaps he texted a response to a question ("how do you like your new place?") that she asked via a different medium, such as email?

 

Yes, that would still make it familiar, but it's hard to tell just how familiar they are without context.

[Joie]

I think you have a right to tell your husband if his behavior is making you upset. And you have a right to be upset even if it is innocent on his part. You can explain to him that you are worried about the boundaries he has with women. Maybe the two of you could brain storm something that would help ease your fears.

[MJJean]

Given the context, mailing an item, I don't think giving your address is inappropriate.

 

Being her architect on a remodel might require him to get somewhat familiar and friendly with her. He's designing a remodel on her home. He needs to have a certain familiarity with her in order to meet and exceed her expectations with his design. When designing a home for a client, it's not just about what they tell you they want. It's also about figuring out what they don't even know they want.

[merrmeade]

I think you have a right to tell your husband if his behavior is making you upset. And you have a right to be upset even if it is innocent on his part. You can explain to him that you are worried about the boundaries he has with women. Maybe the two of you could brain storm something that would help ease your fears.

I like that - in part. Of course I have a right, and he needs to know how I see it.

 

That's diplomatic and has its place in reconciliation. Yet part of me rebels at the idea laying the blame on "my fears" because we HAVE discussed this. He's got only himself to blame for not getting the real help he needed to address this tendency and all the others that got him in trouble more than once.

 

However, reconciliation is about standing outside these injuries, both potential and real, talking about them a little at a time, one aspect at a time.

[Noirek]

"Really quiet out here" is not inappropriatly friendly. It isn't personal or intimate. It's mundane, like the weather.

 

However, being with a seriel cheater can change the most innocent of conversations.

 

You can't stop someone from cheating. You can't nip affairs in the bud like people on here like to preach. That is just one person trying to control another person's actions and it will always fail. So, my advice would be to ask yourself what you will do if he cheats again or is cheating. If it is leave him then just stay silent and not let on you noticed anything was up. Catch him cheating so their are no doubts in your mind. If this really is nothing then nothing will happen and you will hopefully have a little more trust rebuilt. If your plan is to remain married even if he has once again betrayed you then for your own sanity I would consider a dadt or something else that keeps you from the agony of trying to prevent his cheating.

 

My xMMs wife tried so very hard to keep him faithful. She invited me into their bedroom to do so. They adopted a polyamorous relationship. She checked his phone and fb daily. She installed key loggers. She gps tracked him. And he knew she did all that. He cheated on her regardless. My husband and I saw him in a parking lot with a girl on his lap. (Yeah, I picked a real winner). He laughed to me about her watching him and said she was OCD and it was cute but he knew how to get around her when he wanted.

 

You are million times better person than she is. I'm not cuuomparing you to her. But I am saying that people who want to will. And you can catch them over and over again and they may stop for a while but then they are back at it.

[Mr. Lucky]

I looked at phone records (though need to confirm number when I get home) but their conversations are much longer than his others (10-30 mins vs 1-10 mins).

 

So while I don't think it's a conscious plan, I think he's doing his same old same old, i.e., dealing with women differently

 

Sorry you find yourself in this position. And you have a right to feel how you feel.

 

But, assuming your H is a sole proprietor, I've been in his position trying to market my company and sell my services. And like him, I did approach female customers differently, there was more relationship building involved, more communicating of details and more interaction required. Relating to customers in a way they respond to is part of closing the deal and a necessary part of running a successful business.

 

I understand it's a slippery slope but is it possible you're reading too much into this ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lion Heart]

I'm sorry that I may be too late into the thread Mermaid ie if you have already confronted WH.

 

"It's really quiet out here" IS INAPPROPRIATE.

 

Knowing the back story but regardless it's not HIS house that should be discussed at all.

 

It's ONLY hers.

 

So absolutely yes that comment WH was willing to allow you to see...

 

My work is based ALOT on what people are WILLING TO ALLOW SOMEONE else to see, because in ALL cases what we DON'T SEE is gonna be wayyyyyyyt more than that.

 

Indeed the fact that WHs calls to OW are 3 times LONGER than other clients?

 

BINGO.

 

THESE BEHAVIOURS MAY BE QUITE "normal" to some who KNOW how to remain faithful and NOT be grooming their next conquest.

 

For a WH to be doing even THIS in R are red flags indeed Mermaid.

 

Just like BEFORE you knew about the As, we could go "yeah meh nothing there to be concerned about".

 

Then AFTER we have the CLARITY to see all the little things they do to groom.

 

Seriously the STBexVWH from here looked like a dog with his tongue out panting and I can't say what male dogs genitalia do at the sight of a b**** on heat. But THAT too. Yes it's disgusting but that's EXACTLY how he behaved the very MOMENT a woman came into his radar.

 

It was SICKENING to me.

Like a Sentinel PERKING UP or a Peacock spreading it's plumes to draw attention to himself DELIBERATELY.

 

Inappropriate yes.

Confront WH yes.

 

In fact he needs to have ALL his half hour conversations with the OW on speaker phone in front of you.

It'll be SO PREDICTABLE how very much SHORTER these conversations are then. Probably the appropriate 10 mins.

 

Lion Heart

[Noirek]

How exactly is "its really quiet out here." Inapproriate? he is a seriel cheater so every conversation he has with the opposite gender is going to seem nefarious. I asked my husband though just to be sure because I know I'm a "cheater" and without me saying my comment about it being like talking about the weather, he also compared it to that.

 

Mermeade and her husband moved into the client's neighborhood. Her husband sent his new adress and commented on it being quiet in her neighborhood. Very normal behaviour and not at all inappropriate. Longer phone calls do cause eye brows to raise but 30min is not long specially when you get someone who is chatty on the phone. It definetly isn't bearing your soul long.

 

All that being said. A gut feeling, especially with a seriel cheater, isn't something to be brushed off. I know I was probably too late and Mermeade talked to him but if she didn't I would definetly suggest being viligent on this until satisfied that nothing is going on.

[Regretful one]

sounds to me like he was just saying it to this client because you guys have recently moved to a nearby area to where she lives and he was just making a comment. i wouldn't read into it.

 

This makes sense to me...

 

FWIW. I am also an architect. I was also a WH.

 

I could see some chit chat leading someone to say what he said. As others have said the relationship between a client and an architect is often friendly and so in that light I could see saying that to a client if we were discussing/comparing areas we lived. Id disagree with LH in that I talk about my own personal home (and past homes I have also designed/built for myself) often. Its a point of reference and I consistently have clients who will ask what I did or like etc. about my own home(s).

 

As far as the lengths of calls. I know I have calls that range from 30 seconds to over an hour depending on what is being discussed. Every client knows my address as I work out of a home office (at least I used to - we are currently separated). I receive payments in the mail along with occasional applications that needed to be signed etc..etc. Residential work wouldn't require as much of that as commercial but there still could be documents etc. that require review, signatures etc.. Also as Mr. Lucky had said some clients (men or women) are more chatty than others and I know I try to do what I can to make sure each client of mine feels like they are my only client - So if a particular client was wanting to talk about non project related things for a bit I would indulge.

 

Having said all of that... I have never gotten "friendly" in any way with a client. It has always been completely professional. I have in the past had numerous meetings where it was just me and a female client in my office or her home/property. Doesn't mean that your husband or other architects haven't crossed that line in that way as Im sure many have but from my experience as an architect clients primary goal is to get their project designed. They are often excited at that stage and chatty. For me, as far as my profession goes when it comes to women who are sometimes overly friendly its not clients its the female interior designers, draftsmen, realtors, office staff of builders etc.. but then they are also in the same vane trying to be nice to colleagues and architects which bring them work. I would say if it raises a flag in your mind than you should address it. If he is remorseful from his past infidelity (Im assuming he was unfaithful in the past - sorry can't remember the full story) I would expect that he would be understanding and be able to explain the different concerns you have and do so without being defensive. I know I expect a few years (if not a life time) of some questioning at any given time for anything. I also now won't put myself in a situation where I will meet alone privately with a female client if I can help it - not because I am tempted or anything but just to avoid any circumstances that might make my wife uneasy. My two cents.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Regretful one

[merrmeade]

Very thoughtful responses. Thank you for taking the time.

 

I need to correct some things:

He didn't know I'd looked at his messages; it wasn't specifically 'allowed' although he commented recently he assumes I do look and doesn't care.

 

2nd, I was mistaken about the calls. I was looking at the number of the contractor that's working with her.

 

3rd, she's 8 miles away - relatively close but not in the same neighborhood.

 

I still feel that the remark is unprofessional at the very least, but worse because it's something he used to do. Ex-serial cheaters don't get a pass.

[mikeylo]

I'm sorry that I may be too late into the thread Mermaid ie if you have already confronted WH.

 

"It's really quiet out here" IS INAPPROPRIATE.

 

Knowing the back story but regardless it's not HIS house that should be discussed at all.

 

It's ONLY hers.

 

So absolutely yes that comment WH was willing to allow you to see...

 

My work is based ALOT on what people are WILLING TO ALLOW SOMEONE else to see, because in ALL cases what we DON'T SEE is gonna be wayyyyyyyt more than that.

 

Indeed the fact that WHs calls to OW are 3 times LONGER than other clients?

 

BINGO.

 

THESE BEHAVIOURS MAY BE QUITE "normal" to some who KNOW how to remain faithful and NOT be grooming their next conquest.

For a WH to be doing even THIS in R are red flags indeed Mermaid.

 

Just like BEFORE you knew about the As, we could go "yeah meh nothing there to be concerned about".

 

Then AFTER we have the CLARITY to see all the little things they do to groom.

 

Seriously the STBexVWH from here looked like a dog with his tongue out panting and I can't say what male dogs genitalia do at the sight of a b**** on heat. But THAT too. Yes it's disgusting but that's EXACTLY how he behaved the very MOMENT a woman came into his radar.

It was SICKENING to me.

Like a Sentinel PERKING UP or a Peacock spreading it's plumes to draw attention to himself DELIBERATELY.

 

Inappropriate yes.

Confront WH yes.

 

In fact he needs to have ALL his half hour conversations with the OW on speaker phone in front of you.

It'll be SO PREDICTABLE how very much SHORTER these conversations are then. Probably the appropriate 10 mins.

 

Lion Heart

 

Couldnt have said it better.

 

It IS inappropriate because he has been a cheater before AND his behavior is probably what started it the first time.

 

Such guys take proffessionalism to a new level.I also deal with clients, both men and women but the moment the talk deviates from work , I DONT indulge. I change my body language, my tone . I dont need business where I need to impress women with my ability to go beyond work. I'm not a gigolo.

 

The salivating thing ! This is such a scene that I've come across and these guys believe they are just admiring beauty , its normal human( men) instinct.BS.

 

Just like some women, some men also bring shame to the entire men race.

 

OP, he should be behaving himself , not because of your fears but because he believes its wrong and disrespectful to you and your relationship. Its NOT a favor to you.

[wmacbride]

Two ways you can handle this are

 

- give yourself some time to think, and then talk to him. explain why it bothers you and what you feel he could do to allay your concerns. if he is a serial cheater, he may not even be aware that he does this type of thing or that, even if it starts out innocently, he in the past allowed it to go too far.

 

Affairs breed in hidden, dark places,so him shining a light by always being open to you can make a huge difference and also help him to be more self aware of his behavior. Just don;t come in accusing, angry, etc., as that won't help anything. Talk to him and trust you judgement.

 

- second option,if you really believe he's cheating or lying the foundation of an A would be to keep mum and keep searching for evidence. Personally,I wouldn't want to stay in a marriage like that,as it will slowly erode any peace you have in your life.