Begging me to talk to her... Bread crumbs?

November 4, 2016

told her all I want is for her to be happy with or without me she was very sweet and seemed more receptive

Because you were now being non attached but caring. Thats a sign of self security, and it makes women feel secure to be around. Whether she comes or gos doesn't affect you, you don't 'need,' her anymore. Know this for next time.

This one isn't stable enough for a relationship though, so let her go.

We go through these things and learn from them...

November 4, 2016

If I got all those emails and texts I have to admit I would crack at some point and message her back.

With '*you're'

November 4, 2016

Erm... I don't quite know what to say...

You think she is "strong" for waiting to blow up your phone? Erm nooooo! She was entertained then got bored so wanted a bit of drama lama going on! All it shows is that she couldn't give two tosses about you and was entertained for a while then had a dull night... Oh I know lets see if we can get a rise out of him... Its shows that she is weak. Not strong.

Thank God you have distance between you...

Carry on... The girl is a mind screwer uper... If she were Pinocchio you would have bridge to cross the English Chanel on...

Keep them boots on walking...

Guess strong was the wrong word. I meant she has been too stubborn to contact me I guess? IDK.

I know its hard for people to understand but I honestly know she isn't doing what she did to manipulate but the best way I could describe her is a 12-year-old in a 26 years old body. She even admits this herself. She is extremely anti-social and hates being around people. She has always lived with her parents and her parents kind of control her life but she lets them do it. They baby her in a way that is not healthy and she has never had the real chance to grow up and face REAL life problems. That's why when we started arguing over the past year she cracked and kind of thinks that's not normal.

She comes from a long line of mental illnesses including bipolar disorder, which her sister and brother have. She was never diagnosed but I can only assume she has SOMETHING to be this crazy. I get everyone's point in thinking she has a couple of screws loose but I mostly think its just how sheltered she has always been. It doesn't change anything and she will never get past it until she finally realises what her problem is.

Like I said, though, I know she isn't doing this thinking "oh... brad hasn't messaged me in a bit. Better mess up his life some more." I think its more "I don't love brad anymore... but I miss his companionship... I guess its best to just let him go... but... I can't let him go. I miss him so bad. I am not sure what I want."

If I had a dollar for how many times she said "I don't know" to all my questions I asked I would be rich lol. I know she has no clue what she wants and will probably come knocking at my door but in the end, I do know everyone is right and I am to starting to see why its a good thing we are separated now. Being married to someone like that would of never of worked.

Can she grow up and get past it? Sure but it will be many years and I will be long gone.

November 4, 2016

Because you were now being non attached but caring. Thats a sign of self security, and it makes women feel secure to be around. Whether she comes or gos doesn't affect you, you don't 'need,' her anymore. Know this for next time.

This one isn't stable enough for a relationship though, so let her go.

We go through these things and learn from them...

Yea of course. I naturally want her to be magically stable for a relationship but I don't ever see that happening anytime soon. If you guys actually knew this girl she has never really been happy with anything in her life. She was always miserable and has no direction in life at all now. We would of had a home and started a family but clearly she didn't see the happiness in that like I did so she is out looking for it elsewhere.

I know she probably did feel like that because I stopped pulling and just gave her the conversation she wanted to be free. That was the last we really spoke and I did it because I wanted her to always remember me as the good guy. I wanted her to think some day in the future "maybe I shouldn't of let brad go... I am not any happier with my life without him." Seems to of worked in a way from the messages she sent me lol.

I deserve better, even though I made a lot of mistakes in the relationship, and I have moved past them but she has never forgiven me and may never get past it. I chalk that up to immaturity too and me being her first REAL relationship. I have had several and she has had only me.

November 4, 2016

If I got all those emails and texts I have to admit I would crack at some point and message her back.

With '*you're'

Oh trust me. I got that email and my heart sank but what kept popping into my head was when we started talking again and the first night we talked she talked about how all she wanted was friendship from me right now and the talk slowely progressed into her agreeing to see a counselor with me in the future. I had prayed for that to happen for over a month and when she was receptive I was so full of joy I sat on the edge of my bed here and cried. I thought she was finally coming back and when my hope was crushed I felt my chances went from 0% to 99%. I was on the top of the world that night.

Then the weeks after that I kept pushing and pushing for more answers only to get short little responses or her getting angry at me. I was making it much worse but felt betrayed when I mentioned her agreeing to counseling,she took it all back.

It was a slap in the face because the day I left to come back here from the airport she hugged me and kissed me and cried. I get a text at my gate saying. "I never thought I would do this to you. I love you so much. I promise I will fix what's wrong with me and I won't let you sit and suffer in california forever. I promise I will come get you." messed up right? She quickly became distant then too.

That's why after the second time of her being distant and not really knowing what she wants I kind of snapped and I am staying away from her messages other than reconciliation as I will get hurt again. Just not worth it with someone so unstable who doesn't know what she wants but kind of wants me to wait around until she figures it out.

November 5, 2016

I naturally want her to be magically stable for a relationship but I don't ever see that happening anytime soon.... Just not worth it with someone so unstable.

Bradley, the two main causes of emotional instability are a strong hormone change (e.g., puberty, pregnancy, and perimenopause) and drug abuse. You do not mention either of them being a serious problem. Hence, if those two causes can be ruled out, the two remaining common causes of instability are bipolar disorder and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

She was never diagnosed but I can only assume she has SOMETHING to be this crazy.

Perhaps she does have "something" but you are not describing a "crazy" woman. When a person is "crazy" or "psychotic," she has lost touch with physical reality -- e.g., she thinks that the TV news anchor is speaking to her personally. In contrast, you are describing a woman who sees physical reality just fine. What is distorted is not her perception of physical reality but, rather, her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations -- as can occur when a person has a strong mood swing due to bipolar disorder or BPD.

She comes from a long line of mental illnesses including bipolar disorder, which her sister and brother have.

Perhaps she does have bipolar. That is not what you are describing, however. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., need for drama, emotional immaturity, easily triggered temper tantrums (or cold withdrawal), lack of impulse control, weak sense of goals or direction, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD (i.e., severe traits) but, rather, that she may a "BPDer" (i.e., may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it).

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you.

The best way I could describe her is a 12-year-old in a 26 years old body. She even admits this herself.

If your exGF really is a BPDer, your estimate of her emotional age is off by about 8 years. A BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old. Hence, although a BPDer has the intelligence, knowledge, and body strength of a full grown adult, she is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses available to young children. These include, e.g., projection, denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums.

She ...has no direction in life at all now.... If I had a dollar for how many times she said "I don't know" to all my questions I asked I would be rich lol. I know she has no clue what she wants.

If your exGF is a BPDer, she lacks a strong stable sense of direction because she does not know who she is -- i.e., she has a very weak and fragile ego. This is why a BPDer is attracted to a person having a strong personality. Such a person is able to provide the "self identity" that is missing.

Yet, when you do exactly that, the BPDer will resent you because she will feel as though you are somehow "controlling" her. That is, she absolutely needs the way you are able to ground her and give her a sense of direction -- but, oftentimes, she will feel suffocated and engulfed by your strong personality.

Although the cause of BPD is not yet proven, it is believed to arise partly from heredity and partly from a trauma occurring in childhood that prevents the child from developing an integrated sense of self. That is, the child never had an opportunity to integrate the good and bad aspects of her personality. This means the BPDer never reached the point where she started thinking of herself as a basically good girl who occasionally does bad things.

Instead, the BPDer continues to perceive of herself -- as a four year old does -- as being either "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). Similarly, she will categorize all of the people in her life in the same black or white categories. And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in less than a minute -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

I see how unhappy she was and blamed it all on me.

As I noted above, a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of self. To the extent she has any lasting sense of self at all, it is the false self image of being "The Victim." Always "The Victim." In order to "validate" that false self image, a BPDer will perceive of her partner as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune and unhappiness to befall her.

She is extremely anti-social and hates being around people.

Most BPDers are not anti-social and don't hate being around people. Hence, these behaviors are not BPD traits. Instead, they are the traits associated with Schizotypal PD, Paranoid PD, Schizoid PD, and ASPD (Antisocial PD).

I therefore observe that the vast majority of people exhibiting strong BPD traits also suffer from strong traits of one or two other PDs as well. A recent large-scale study found that 35% of females with full-blown BPD also suffer from full-blown Schizotypal PD, 25% suffer from Paranoid PD, 14% of them suffer from Schizoid PD, and 9% suffer from ASPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. Moreover, I note that having stress-related paranoid thoughts is one of the nine defining traits for BPD.

She has never really been happy with anything in her life.

"Chronic feelings of emptiness" is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. See Nine Defining Traits. It therefore is not surprising that 80% of full-blown female BPDers also suffer from a co-occurring mood disorder. About a third of them, for example, suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. (See Table 3 cite above.)

We had a very healthy relationship up until the last year together and she realizes this too.

If you still believe that you had "a very healthy relationship" for the first 6 years -- as you claimed yesterday -- please ignore everything I've written above. It would mean your exGF is NOT a BPDer. BPDers are too unstable to hide their instability and childish behaviors for 6 years. I note, however, that today you have stated:

We had a lot of good times together and that's mostly what I see but as the rose colored glasses come off I see the negatives. I see how I had to beg for affection in the end and got nothing. I see how unhappy she was and blamed it all on me. I see how little effort she put into working at problems and instead ignored them

.

This language suggests that you are now reexamining the way in which you were treated for 7 years. If so , I would suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs . If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread . If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Bradley.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Downtown

November 5, 2016

Yep, nut case. She dumped you for the other guy.

The only thing crazier would be you getting back with her in any way.

If you're smart you'll go and stay completely dark.

You have no idea how lucky you are.

November 5, 2016

Bradley, the two main causes of emotional instability are a strong hormone change (e.g., puberty, pregnancy, and perimenopause) and drug abuse. You do not mention either of them being a serious problem. Hence, if those two causes can be ruled out, the two remaining common causes of instability are bipolar disorder and BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

Perhaps she does have "something" but you are not describing a "crazy" woman. When a person is "crazy" or "psychotic," she has lost touch with physical reality -- e.g., she thinks that the TV news anchor is speaking to her personally. In contrast, you are describing a woman who sees physical reality just fine. What is distorted is not her perception of physical reality but, rather, her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations -- as can occur when a person has a strong mood swing due to bipolar disorder or BPD.

Perhaps she does have bipolar. That is not what you are describing, however. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., need for drama, emotional immaturity, easily triggered temper tantrums (or cold withdrawal), lack of impulse control, weak sense of goals or direction, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD (i.e., severe traits) but, rather, that she may a "BPDer" (i.e., may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it).

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you.

If your exGF really is a BPDer, your estimate of her emotional age is off by about 8 years. A BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old. Hence, although a BPDer has the intelligence, knowledge, and body strength of a full grown adult, she is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses available to young children. These include, e.g., projection, denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums.

If your exGF is a BPDer, she lacks a strong stable sense of direction because she does not know who she is -- i.e., she has a very weak and fragile ego. This is why a BPDer is attracted to a person having a strong personality. Such a person is able to provide the "self identity" that is missing.

Yet, when you do exactly that, the BPDer will resent you because she will feel as though you are somehow "controlling" her. That is, she absolutely needs the way you are able to ground her and give her a sense of direction -- but, oftentimes, she will feel suffocated and engulfed by your strong personality.

Although the cause of BPD is not yet proven, it is believed to arise partly from heredity and partly from a trauma occurring in childhood that prevents the child from developing an integrated sense of self. That is, the child never had an opportunity to integrate the good and bad aspects of her personality. This means the BPDer never reached the point where she started thinking of herself as a basically good girl who occasionally does bad things.

Instead, the BPDer continues to perceive of herself -- as a four year old does -- as being either "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). Similarly, she will categorize all of the people in her life in the same black or white categories. And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in less than a minute -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

As I noted above, a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of self. To the extent she has any lasting sense of self at all, it is the false self image of being "The Victim." Always "The Victim." In order to "validate" that false self image, a BPDer will perceive of her partner as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune and unhappiness to befall her.

Most BPDers are not anti-social and don't hate being around people. Hence, these behaviors are not BPD traits. Instead, they are the traits associated with Schizotypal PD, Paranoid PD, Schizoid PD, and ASPD (Antisocial PD).

I therefore observe that the vast majority of people exhibiting strong BPD traits also suffer from strong traits of one or two other PDs as well. A recent large-scale study found that 35% of females with full-blown BPD also suffer from full-blown Schizotypal PD, 25% suffer from Paranoid PD, 14% of them suffer from Schizoid PD, and 9% suffer from ASPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. Moreover, I note that having stress-related paranoid thoughts is one of the nine defining traits for BPD.

"Chronic feelings of emptiness" is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. See Nine Defining Traits. It therefore is not surprising that 80% of full-blown female BPDers also suffer from a co-occurring mood disorder. About a third of them, for example, suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. (See Table 3 cite above.)

If you still believe that you had "a very healthy relationship" for the first 6 years -- as you claimed yesterday -- please ignore everything I've written above. It would mean your exGF is NOT a BPDer. BPDers are too unstable to hide their instability and childish behaviors for 6 years. I note, however, that today you have stated:
We had a lot of good times together and that's mostly what I see but as the rose colored glasses come off I see the negatives. I see how I had to beg for affection in the end and got nothing. I see how unhappy she was and blamed it all on me. I see how little effort she put into working at problems and instead ignored them
.

This language suggests that you are now reexamining the way in which you were treated for 7 years. If so , I would suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs . If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread . If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Bradley.

When I get home I will give more insight into this but all of this crossed my mind when we first talked again and the way she described how she felt through me so off. She told me a few times how she felt and told me she thought I would think she was crazy and has shared this info ONLY with me. It's to much to type on my phone but I will update you on everything later tonight.

November 5, 2016

Bradley, I look forward to reading your update later tonight.

November 6, 2016

Bradley, I look forward to reading your update later tonight.

Ok, first of all, I am known to ramble on and on but I like to give all the details so others can see the situation as it truly is and see why this whole time I have been very confused. I just wanted to give that warning in advance lol.

Saying that I will get to the beginning of all of this.

2 months before I heard the dreaded words of "I don't love you anymore", things started to seem... off. We had been planning the wedding and everything was great up until that point. She just bought her dress and all we had to do was pay off the church and pay for the food for the reception. It was at this time though things started to go downhill. She seemed to be distancing herself more and more from me and becoming VERY irritable. The smallest things would set her off and she was blowing up at me over very small matters. I would laugh them off later but unknown to me she was holding on to them and letting them build up in her mind.

At one point she was all of the sudden trying to postpone the wedding again. I could not understand why she was doing this but I told her we just could not do it. My family had forked over several thousand dollars and it was the main reason we were going to be able to do the wedding at this time. We were both practically broke and her family could not help in any way as they are very poor. Well at one point we started fighting about this on a daily basis and I could not understand shows he could not fathom my family spending all this money on the wedding and us postponing it again was rude. Th other times we postponed it was because of money. So this time when they give us the money and she is wanting to postpone it I felt VERY upset. I felt she didn't love me and want to get married to me after all.

During this time she was wearing her engagement ring less and less. I would find it sitting on the bathroom sink like it was some unmeaningful piece of jewelry. Not a symbol of my love for her. I took weeks picking out a ring and when I found that ring it just meant so much to me. I even ended up crying on the girl who helped me pick out rings and she told me I was very sweet and she was a lucky girl to have someone like me. Of course, the girl didn't know me but I knew it was the one. It meant so much to me. It was well out of my price range but I ended up scraping every single cent I had up to buy it. To see it in the sink like that killed me. It's like my proposal (which I cried like a baby too) and the time I took out to find the ring meant NOTHING.

Also during this time getting her to be affectionate was at an all time low. The last year together I had to constantly BEG for her affection. I would get a hug here and there but our sex life totally vanished. She didn't seem to care anymore and all my cries out to her she just acknowledged I deserved better but did nothing to improve it. I am not just talking sex but I was always the first to kiss her, to comfort her, to hug her. hugging her most of the time I had to literally remind her she needed to wrap her arms around me and hug me back as I didn't feel any affection. When we spent time together I constantly had to ask her to please sit with me instead of across the room. One day we fought about the wedding and I could not understand how her demeanour seemed that of a child. How hard is it to understand when people give you money you need to respect it? If we had to postpone the wedding I would have been so embarrassed as I couldn't get that money back.

Her only response to this? "**** EVERYONE! ITS NOT ONE's BUSINESS! WHY THE HELL CAN YOU NOT JUST LEAVE IT ALONE!

She has NEVER acted like this and it was so out of character. It was so out of character as that is the FIRST time she has EVER said the F word. I think you can see in her texts to me she cusses like a monster now and not ONE time in the 7 years together did she cuss and we were together constantly. It's almost like she changed over night into this whole new person.

After a while, I ended up dropping the whole subject and tried to tell my family we were going to postpone the wedding. Mind you not 3 days before we decided this we were antique shopping for fine china for this idea she had for the wedding. My family surprisingly told me they understood and I was ok and told her not to worry about it. After this, she just started to withdraw even more. Getting angrier and angrier at little things and I felt no matter what I did I could not win. She told me she had to "constantly walk on eggshells" around me.

One night, a couple of nights before she told me she didn't love me anymore, some of her family came down. It was her uncle and her "cousin". I met both of them and they seemed like very nice people. On that day I told her I wanted us to spend more time together as I realised we had no been spending any time together anymore and it was kind of hurting me. She agreed and told me she was sorry. We were supposed to go up there for the day and head home. I had to work in the morning and I had not even slept during the day as I was helping her family with a housing project. I didn't mind as I loved them but I still was going to need to rest at some point. Later during the night they were gonna go fishing and I was hoping me and she would finally get some alone time like we agreed too. Well out of nowhere she comes back in and tells me they made room for her on the boat so she can go.

I got angry, like a little brat I know, and she could tell I was angry. I told her she was ditching me again and I cannot understand why she is doing this. I felt vulnerable already as she canceled the wedding but instead of comforting me she pushed me even more. She became this selfish monster. Everything was about her.

I end up waiting up all night for her and she doesn't come home until 6 am. I wake up later and tell her how upset I am that she bailed on me for something like that after she agreed to spend time together. She ended up SCREAMING at me and tell me she could feel herself pulling away from me. She told me I needed to stop smothering her and let her be free as she is pulling away and can feel it slipping inside of her. I ended up apologizing and telling her I just felt very jealous and vulnerable because I could tell she was pulling away and I just did not understand why. First the sex, the affection, the wedding and now our time together.

I thought we ended up making up and she told me "I am so sorry I went out on the boat. I was just stressed out and needed some time to myself. I did not mean to hurt you and I promise we will spend time together tonight."

We end up going to this little family reunion and later that day she does the EXACT same thing. She ditches me and goes back out on that boat with her "cousin" and uncle. I am almost dead sure it is her cousin BUT something for sure happened there as they had never met before and ALL of the sudden this whole time I have been gone they have been together on many MANY trips. I mean trips me and her would take.... it feels like a huge slap in the face. I am not sure if something was going on but I still was being replaced by this person and that still hurt me deeply. I am getting off topic, though.

The night she comes back she ends up crying in the bed. She tells me "brad... do you ever worry about marrying me?" I told her "Well of course I worry. I worry about our future together and how immature you are when it comes to life decisions but I also don't know all the answers and I know me and you can work through it together." That didn't mean much to me at the time but later it hit me she asked because SHE was having doughts about us and wanting out.

After she said that she told me she didn't think she loved me anymore and was sorry. I naturally tried to get an answer out of her but she had no answers to give me. She ends up leaving and hanging with her friend instead of talking to me. Leaving me to deal with my own thoughts before I had to go to work. I told her "can you please come back and talk to me before I have to go to work so we can discuss what's going on?" she agreed and told me she would be there soon. HOURS later she shows up in the car just 7 minutes before I am supposed to leave for work. I was not angry but very disappointed. She came in and sat on the bed crying. I asked her what had happened and she told me she and her friend had been drinking all night and she was still drunk. (she NEVER drinks) and told me she didn't know what was going on with her. Told me she wasn't the girl I fell in love with anymore and she has no clue what happened to her. She feels so different now.

Well at this same time her job was causing her TONS of stress. I end up asking her if she maybe should leave her job. She agrees and I told her I would support her for as long as possible until she gets another one or decides what she wants to do as I loved her very much. Over this time she is almost a shell of a person... She doesn't have any life in her and seems so... empty all the time. She seems miserable and sad and blank. It got so bad her family told her to just flat out quit her job as they could sense something was VERY wrong.

The day of her finally leaving I figured things would be much better but she ended up telling me "I love you.... I just know I am not in love with you anymore and I need to be strong for myself. I cannot stay unhappy with you forever." I was in shock and begged her for a couple of days to reconsider but she was set on the fact and was COLD. When I say cold I mean emotionless. You would think I BEAT her for so so long and she finally just had enough. My tears meant nothing to her and she just looked at me like a lifeless doll. Her family couldn't figure out what was wrong with her either and EXTREMELY upset. At one point I was crying with her mom and telling her I loved her and she will always be like my second mother to me and she comes in the room GLARING at us. She starts saying "are you talking about me?! I don't trust you two at all!" she finally sees that I had been crying and comes over and says "what's wrong?... why the heck are you crying?" I told her "because... my fiance just told me she doesn't love me anymore." She said "oh... well hey now!" comes over and pats me a couple of times and leaves the room... emotionless. No sadness... no nothing.

After all, this was going on I was deciding what I needed to do and ended up leaving the house and staying with her sister. I had no real place to go and ended up spending every single cent I saved on the wedding. I cried with her sister for a while and she hugged me and told me she loved me and didn't want me to go. I came to the conclusion I needed to go back to California and be with my family as this was still her family and I couldn't fix this problem while I was here. I end up telling my ex I was moving back to California and she was SHOCKED. She BEGGED me to stay and she just move in with her sister for a while and I stay here. She begged me to stay her friend.

I could not fathom how immature she had to be to think I could stay there and just be a friend to her. I told her I would not be her friend as I was deeply in love with her and could not fathom how she doesn't want to be with me but still wants to live together in the long run as "friends". It was nuts. The day I was leaving I was packing my bag and she stood over me. I told her "I refuse to leave on a bad note as I have been good to you and will always love you. I don't understand why this is happening and I am sorry if I did anything to make you think you didn't love me anymore. I wish I could fix it but you are not willing to work at it so I have to go." I asked her if she had anything she wanted to add and she told me this.

"I will try but you know how impossible it is for me to express my feelings. I do not know what is wrong with me. I love you very much but something feels wrong with me and I cannot figure it out. I cannot figure out WHY I need to leave you but I just feel in my gut I do. You have always been so good to me but I still can't shake this feeling. Something feels wrong with me."

I said "what do you mean? Just try to explain what you mean by wrong..." she said " I am going to sound crazy.... I feel like I am trapped in a dark room.... filled with smoke. I keep reaching my hand up waiting for someone to reach up and pull me out. I feel helpless and I see absolutely 0 future for myself."

I asked "do you see no future with us or mainly yourself?" she said "myself. Everything.

We said our goodbyes and I hugged her and she fell on the floor crying her eyes out repeating "no no no no.... I can't.... I can't let you go."

I said "how can you say you don't love me anymore but have an impossible time letting me go? If you are done and want out you don't cry when the other person is leaving... I don't understand."

She said "hey! how about I just move in with my sister for a couple months and you stay here and we can hang out! we still need to go see this movie talked about and do these things we promised each other!" I told her. "you mean.... I stay here and we be friends?" she said "yes but best friends and we would spend all the time together still! right???"

Her request seemed almost childlike and crazy. I looked into her eyes and told her "I love you too much and I will NEVER be your friend. It is either all of me or none of me." she bawled and finally accepted it. As we drove to the airport she sat next to me held my hand all the way there... crying. I get to my gate and say my goodbyes to her. I tell her again I don't get why this is happening but I am not angry at her and love her. She is crying and tells me "I am not sure why either... Just give me a couple of months so I can fix myself... I promise I will fight this and I will bring you back home when I feel myself again."

I turn to go through the gate and she kisses me and watches me leave. I get to my gate and sob uncontrollably. After 5 minutes had passed she sends me "I know this is horrible and I never thought I would do this to you. I promise I will fix myself and whatever is wrong with me and I will bring you back! I promise!" I message back "please just do what you need to do and bring me back home ok?" she agrees and that was that.

I get back to my family who is crying and upset but who is very comforting to me. We talk for a while and me mostly just cry on them. The next day (my birthday.... yep... left the day before my birthday) I get a text. It says "I never thought I would do this to you... happy birthday my sweet baby. I love you so much and I am so sorry this is happening but I promise I am going to fight this and fix what's wrong with my heart and mind. I swear to you. I will not let you sit there and suffer forever."

After that message, it progressively went down the hill and she just seemed like a totally different person. We end up talking one more time a week later and she shares a little bit more information with me. She tells me she cannot figure out whats wrong with her. She can hardly get out of bed and has 0 motivation to do anything. She sees no future for herself and all the stuff she used to enjoy is not pointless to her. She can't find any joy in anything.

I didn't really think much of it and figured it was her breaking up with me doing it but I end up telling her we cannot be friends while here and I loved her and wished her the best. We end up going into no contact for about 6 weeks. During this time I was still talking to her mother on a daily basis and it came to my attention she had been crying about me every day the last 3 weeks we didn't talk. She apparently felt like she betrayed me and felt super guilty.

After all this time I finally accepted she didn't love me anymore and I could do nothing. At this time she reached out to me with a stupid question and we somehow went back on speaking terms. We finally talk more and she ends up sharing the same info with me. Telling me she was unhappy with me for a LONG time but... was also VERY happy with me most of the time... she couldn't figure out what's wrong with her and feels crazy. She again shared the "dark" room feeling. The feeling of "someone sitting on my chest and I can't get them off"

After that, I decided I was going to google exactly what she mentioned about being trapped in a dark room. When I did... EVERYTHING that popped up was about severe depression.... I ended up looking up all the symptoms and it hit her on the head so much it was insane. She started drinking like crazy the last week I was there and she told me "this is the only way I feel normal... its the only way I can feel like myself again... When I am not drunk I go back to my cold dark self."

Again she never had issues with drinking and all of this was FAR out of character. I one day end up talking to her and asking her several questions on how she felt. I makeup stuff and sprinkle in things from the depression symptoms website. Without skipping a beat all the stuff for depression she told me she felt like. I end up telling her she I believe she is suffering from some mental illness and really needs to see a doctor. she starts crying and thanks me for looking after her and she agrees something is very wrong and that she needs help but is afraid too. She BEGGED me to not tell her family and didn't want them worrying about her.

As time went on it was apparent she didn't want to seek any help and in fact seemed she was just fine and it started to throw me off and make me think MAYBE she was fine and didn't actually have anything wrong with her but was telling me all this stuff to shut up. I end up telling her mother I think she is suffering from depression or SOMETHING and her mother just says "She seems fine to me. I don't think she has depression. She has not said a word to me but ill keep an eye out" After this it was very apperent they were never going to get her help and were instead going to ignroe it. I mean... after ALL the crazyness they saw and wondering WHAT was wrong with her to do all this stuff to me they still hadn't taken her to a therapist to see if maybe something mentally was wrong.

After a while of this I eventually got tired of her false promises and went back into no contact again with the intentions of it being forever... That was just before this last contact she just messaged me. She has been on several trips and seems to be having a blast in her photos but who really can say for sure. I was told by others they think she might be suffering from a mental illness but I am no doctor and will never really know for sure until she decides to get help. Which may be never?

November 6, 2016

Bradley, I look forward to reading your update later tonight.

I also want to add something else. She ALWAYS looked up to me and when I said our relationship was always perfect, it was not. From the day I met her she had ALWAYS looked up to me. She was always so proud of me and loved me very much. She was fascinated by me and I had NEVER had a girl look up to me so much.

One thing I do not share with many people is the fact we almost didn't make it in the begging. Why? because I liked her and she seemed sweet but she seemed VERY immature for her age. I almost knew it was going to be a problem and that it would be hard to overcome. It took a while but she progressively got better but her communication and problem-solving skills with me were always on a child's level. little issues would be BLOWN up and small tasks seemed almost the end of the world. Even to this day, the ONLY reason she can tell me she fell out of love with me was because we started to argue a lot more. She felt we argued every day and I swear at MOST it was once every 2 weeks and I am talking about small stuff like, where to go eat, what to watch on tv, etc.

She always thought we argued the way too much and I just did not understand as I felt we never argued really, until the end.

when I say fights became so blown out of proportion I mean if I was upset I would tell her "hey... I may be mad over something SO stupid right now but let me calm down so we don't go at each other and I will come apologise later." I swear when I realised I was being stupid I would come talk to her and laugh about it and we would make up... but every single fight we had escalated because of her. Something small would become a screaming fight because she would get in my face and yell at me. Talk down to me and blow it way out of proportion until I would snap and we would go at it. I don't know how many times I had said "you solve problems like a child... how can you get in someone's face and yell at them when we both are upset? It is like you want to scream fight with each other instead of letting us both cool off or discussing it rationally..."

So no. It was NOT perfect but I know no relationship is and expecting it to be is setting yourself up for failure.

I don't know if that means anything but she really has 0 communication skills and has always bottled up her problems and expecting it to go away. She even said she expected the feeling she was getting about leaving me would eventually go away but it never did and she hoped it would go away if she ignored it. Her words.

November 6, 2016

You should block her on everything. There is nothing but a nightmare for whoever takes this on.

Stay dark if you're smart

November 6, 2016

2 months before I heard the dreaded words of "I don't love you anymore", things started to seem... off.... The smallest things would set her off and she was blowing up at me over very small matters.

Bradley, about 95% of the strange behaviors you describe occurred during this 2 month period -- or during the past 6 months. Based on this -- i.e., based on the 95% of what you wrote above -- you seem to be describing a woman who simply fell out of love with you. Granted, some of her behaviors were a bit strange. But, when a person is canceling a wedding and walking away from a 7 year relationship, "strange" is exactly how they usually behave because they are very upset and tend to feel very guilty.

As time went on it was apparent she didn't want to seek any help and in fact seemed she was just fine and it started to throw me off and make me think MAYBE she was fine and didn't actually have anything wrong with her but was telling me all this stuff to shut up.

It sounds like you are correct about her claiming to be depressed -- and feeling like she is in a dark room -- as a way of shutting you up and letting you down gently. Because "dumpers" usually feel very guilty about walking away, it is common for them to reassure the rejected partners by saying "It's not you, it's ME." Yet, if the problem really were a serious bout of depression, you would expect her own mother to be seeing it. But, on the contrary, her mother told you, "She seems fine to me. I don't think she has depression. She has not said a word to me but ill keep an eye out."

I was told by others they think she might be suffering from a mental illness.

If your exGF has a persistent "mental illness" as you suspect, the warning signs (symptoms) almost certainly would have been evident throughout the 7 year relationship following the courtship -- and during her earlier family history. It therefore is frustrating that only 5% of your discussion describes what problems you were seeing during the first 6.5 years.

In that regard, you do mention that she exhibited lots of drama, childish immaturity, and emotional instability during that initial 6.5 years. But then you turn around and contradict it -- as you did today -- by saying "I felt we never argued really, until the end." Or perhaps you meant to imply that the drama and instability only appeared in the past six months. That is unclear to me.

Of course, those of us who are active members on LoveShack expect to see occasional contradictions from the OPs starting a thread. When people are trying to recover from a recent breakup or broken engagement, their emotions are so turbulent that their perception of events and intentions can vary greatly from day to day.

This is why I tried to obtain more information about that first six years of your R/S by asking you to take a quick look at my list of warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. Did you have time to look at it? If so, did most of those red flags sound very familiar?

November 6, 2016

Bradley,

My heart hurts for you. The trauma and heartache seems unbearable. There is a YouTube video that I found that is helping me move past pain. This may help in your healing. The video is called How to Heal the emotional body. It's made by a woman named Teal. It's a painful process and uncomfortable, but it's the only way to truly heal and move forward. I hope all the best for you

November 6, 2016

Bradley, about 95% of the strange behaviors you describe occurred during this 2 month period -- or during the past 6 months. Based on this -- i.e., based on the 95% of what you wrote above -- you seem to be describing a woman who simply fell out of love with you. Granted, some of her behaviors were a bit strange. But, when a person is canceling a wedding and walking away from a 7-year relationship, "strange" is exactly how they usually behave because they are very upset and tend to feel very guilty.

It sounds like you are correct about her claiming to be depressed -- and feeling like she is in a dark room -- as a way of shutting you up and letting you down gently. Because "dumpers" usually feel very guilty about walking away, it is common for them to reassure the rejected partners by saying "It's not you, it's ME." Yet, if the problem really were a serious bout of depression, you would expect her own mother to be seeing it. But, on the contrary, her mother told you, "She seems fine to me. I don't think she has depression. She has not said a word to me but ill keep an eye out."

If your exGF has a persistent "mental illness" as you suspect, the warning signs (symptoms) almost certainly would have been evident throughout the 7-year relationship following the courtship -- and during her earlier family history. It, therefore, is frustrating that only 5% of your discussion describes what problems you were seeing during the first 6.5 years.

In that regard, you do mention that she exhibited lots of drama, childish immaturity, and emotional instability during that initial 6.5 years. But then you turn around and contradict it -- as you did today -- by saying "I felt we never argued really, until the end." Or perhaps you meant to imply that the drama and instability only appeared in the past six months. That is unclear to me.

Of course, those of us who are active members on LoveShack expect to see occasional contradictions from the OPs starting a thread. When people are trying to recover from a recent breakup or broken engagement, their emotions are so turbulent that their perception of events and intentions can vary greatly from day to day.

This is why I tried to obtain more information about that first six years of your R/S by asking you to take a quick look at my list of warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. Did you have time to look at it? If so, did most of those red flags sound very familiar?

That is what I was getting at. I assumed for a LONG time it was depression but in the end, I saw it as she just used it as a way to make me feel more at ease... like it was something I couldn't fix but she could and was working on it. Was it a lie? I don't know. My heart wanted to say no for a long time but my head tells me it was nothing but a lie. A way to ease her guilt. I am not a stupid person but seeing how she has used every chance she could to ease her OWN guilt I can see her doing it for that as well.

I think falling out of love is a total bull reason and her "reasons" for falling out of love are stuff that was very fixable if we could have discussed them. We never did and probably never will. I know if she couldn't discuss the problems with me and maybe try to find a solution what is she going to do in her next relationship? The same exact thing.

When I say our relationship was perfect but contradict with drama this is what I mean. Me and her didn't really argue that much until past the honeymoon faze of the relationship but her family and she were drawn to drama like no other people I had seen before. They were always in fights with other family members and I was always dragged into the middle of it. A lot of the stuff revolved around me too as rumors were started about me. I avoided this stuff at all costs but they always ended up dragging me back into it. She was always starting fights with her family and her family was always making her out to be small. She was the middle child and she was the one who got in trouble for everything. I couldn't tell you how many times I heard her partents talk down to her like she was stupid, while they acted like the other 2 children were saints. They never said anything bad about them and made her do all the house work.

Saying that though she has babied her whole life still. They talked down to her a lot but she also got away with a lot. She has always been with her mom and very close. Secretly though she has always hidden this deep deep resentment for her mother. Reason being is she knows her mom has had several affairs throughout her life and her mom has constantly lied and told my ex she was crazy. I actually saw proof she saved from a long time ago in messages but it didn't matter nor does it matter but I know, even though she loves her mom, she has great great resentment towards her. She has called her a whore to me and you can see the anger in her eyes but she mostly just lets it go.

So I have 100s of examples of drama in my life but when I say perfect I meant I liked how our relationship was and didn't see much wrong with it but to be quite honest we had problems. From the first day, we dated we never really could discuss our issues together. I always tried to work them out and she always told me her head was foggy and that she could not discuss them.

I did some really messed up things in the begging and I am dead sure it ended up hurting her and pushing her away. In fact, she told me that was a huge reason why she "fell out of love" with me. I apologized for so long for the issues I caused in the relationship but it didn't matter. I am just trying to be as honest as possible. I knew she never forgave me for what I said to her but at the time I didn't even think much of it. All of what I said was about her weight and I always thought I was helping but in the end I saw, too late, that I was a total ******* about it. If she REALLY did just fall out of love with me I could understand it and that's why I finally accepted it the first time UNTIL she was soo back and fourth. Not wanting to lose me but felt like she needed to let me go. I don't know... it was just all confusing.

NOW as for the list of stuff I will answer them with examples but I will not make stuff up if I do not feel she had them. Just trying to be as honest as possible.

1 Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor comment or infraction

ok, this one... was constant. I do not know HOW accurate to it she was but her whole life she really liked one person one day then disliked them the other. As an example, she had a friend at work she LOVED. She thought she was so nice and sweet and she and the girl became really good friends. Then one day the girl did something my ex-didn't like very much and decided not to be friends anymore. She did the same thing with countless other people. If she found ONE thing in them she didn't like she instantly went from really liking them to disliking them in a day.

Funny thing is was when she separated and I tried to get answers from her she used the line "its not black and white brad!" so again, maybe I am wrong but she for sure did a lot of flip-flopping with people. She either liked them a lot or totally disliked them. I would assume it was normal but who knows.

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"

Yea I she did this all the time but I feel people do use these words a lot. Specially in arguments, she would always tell me I had to always win them. SHE never won a single argument in her life with me, etc.

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;

Jealousy yes, irrational no. She was always really jealous of anyone who came around me as she thought I always came across confident and always thought she would lose me to another girl but she loved a lot of my family and never really became controlling with any of them and in fact liked it when I did get to spend time with my family once a year.

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard ;

Again, not so much. She NEVER really appreciated the things I did and took a lot of my sacrifices for granite but never had the attitude that I needed to do stuff for her. I was the one who sacrificed the most through the WHOLE relationship and never felt appreciated but she never did have a selfish me attitude about anything really. She just didn't appreciate the things I did do for her enough.

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;

She did flip randomly and I could never understand why she would get so upset at some things. I still don't know if it was THAT bad up until the last year but it was strange. She always described how SHE walked on eggshells with me and I always felt the opposite. So I am not really to sure.

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;

This one a LOT. I mean... when we did argue it was over something small and I even recall telling people I couldn't even remember how the fights exploded. It would be over something little like what we needed to do the next day OR her forgetting to pick something up on the way home. I don't think I escalated the fights but they would quickly go from me talking really calm about them to her EXPLODING.

7. Low self-esteem;

This one is HUGE in her. I mean.. she ALWAYS thought she was going to lose me because she was so "stupid" and she "looked like a man" (she's beautiful trust me lol.) Always talking about how she couldn't hold a conversation and everyone she met was SO much more interesting than she was. Nothing came out of her mouth that wasn't talking bad about herself and I cannot even recall her ever having any kind of confidence. In fact, the day she left me and was in the room she literally... screamed in my face. "I want to be free! I want to be a strong confident woman!" lol doesn't mean much but she has always had bad bad self-esteem issues.

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours;

Yep. Again, when we had an argument she would escalate things soooooooo quickly I wouldn't even understand it. It was like she wanted to fight randomly. She would tell me I was TRYING to anger her by talking about he thing she forgot to do or putting pressure on her and she would break down on me and be furious. I cannot say if that was not typical behavior for someone so emotionally immature but she did it a lot.

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;

Never, in fact she was always understanding and most of the times just sad. She looked up to me and missed me wayyyy more then I missed her when I left to go on trips to see my family. She would be almost crying because she missed me so bad after 2 weeks. We were together all the time.

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self-image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;

She did this a lot but it is just how I felt she acted in every situation. She secretly resented me for a lot of stuff over time and SOMEHOW when I was talking calmly to her that I needed her to show me more love and affection she would always flip it around to me making her out to be the bad guy and how much of an ******* I was. It happened so much that it shocked me how she could not grasp that I just wanted affection. I am not talking sex either... I am talking kissing, hugging, sweet words, etc.

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);

eh, not so much but she did binge eat a lot and that is why we had a HUGE majority of our fights. I hate to say it but I said some stupid stuff out of frustration with her as I felt her weight ALWAYS affected us. She never felt sexy and NEVER wanted to get dressed up for me as she has always been about 60 pounds over weight. She has very very bad body issues and I KNOW I ended up making her feel worse by getting upset when she would rather binge eat than go to the gym. Was it excessive? No. So I am not too sure about this one.

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;

She had only been on 3 dates before me and I was her FIRST real relationship she had. 2 of the guys that took her on a date before me ended up not going on a second date as they felt she was just way to immature for her age and could see no good coming from it.

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"

Yea she did this but don't a lot of us do this? Fake we like everything the other person likes or at least enough to make them like you back? it is a stupid immature thing to do but I guess I am guilty of doing this as well.

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;

She has NEVER known what she wants to do and has 0 sense of direction even now. I cannot say I am much better. My life was getting way more on track and I finally landed a really good job before we split but now... I am 27 back at home and nowhere really to go from here. Least that I can think of for now.

She has changed jobs several times and has been to school for a couple of different things. She has never known what to do but anything she has tried has always been miserably in it. I think she looked at me a lot for inspiration for her direction and keep her on track but I cannot say she relied ONLY on me.

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed because she has so little ability to do self-soothing;

This a lot. I was ALWAYS taking care of her emotions and she was a mess if I wasn't around. She couldn't handle the smallest little things and they would end up blowing up if I didn't calm her down. When I had problems though she never was able to comfort me. I have, to be honest and say it always felt very one sided. She even admitted all the time she never was soothing to me or helpful when I was down but relied on me constantly to calm her down.

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);

Nope. She has ONE friend. They have known each other for a long time but in reality, she can't even stand her and they don't spend anytime together. She is very antisocial and if she does find a friend she likes she quickly finds something about them she doesn't like. I do not know how normal it is.

I honestly have only 3 real friends and 2 of them are close friends but I am more of an introvert and like it that way.

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people;

yes. Not to an insane extreme but was always changing little traits of hers to match the person so they would get along. I do not think it was out of the norm but she did do it a lot. Mostly though she was just a shy timid girl who could not really talk about anything and kind of looked for me to talk to her. So I am on the fence with this but she did do it at times. Was it more than normal? who knows.

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.

Yea... I don't know how many times she told me she felt some way about it. I tried to get her to discuss why she felt the way she did. She would give me a reason and I would further explain that she couldn't be right as I had evidence that she was wrong. No matter how much proof I had though SHE was right and I was just being a stubborn a-hole. She could never look at the evidence and only looked at her emotions and how she was feeling.

November 6, 2016

I tried to take everything at face value when she told me she didn't love me anymore. She could give me a couple of reasons why but at the same time NEVER would stick to them and become desperate when I tried to walk away. she did it several times. I have to ONLY assume she did it because she cares about me still but has 0 feelings of love for me. I accepted that month but her flip flopping back and forth so much just threw me off. It gave me a false sense of hope and I clung to that for a long time. Her fitting the description of depression so well and her agreeing made me want to help her even more. Her sudden personality change and need to cling to drinking made me believe it even more.

If it was all a lie and she just said that to make me not feel so guilty and for me to simply have a piece then I will never forgive that. She used me emotionally and I think it's still pretty clear she is struggling to decide what she really wants. She may one day decide it was me but like so many others have said I just feel I shouldn't even consider that. I loved her a long time and for her to just not "love" me anymore seems strange and naturally, I want to find anything else that could be wrong. I think it's only normal for people to feel that way. Someone falling out of love with you makes you feel like a loser. It makes you feel like something is wrong with you. I can tell you right now what I did wrong in the relationship but it was NOTHING compared to how some other people are.

I have been working on my flaws and I can already see I am a much different person. I have said my peace and apologized countless times. I even tried to be there for her when I thought she had depression but unless she actually seek help for it I am just inclined to think she really does not.

It is nice getting others feedback and seeing I am not TOTALLY crazy thinking she is a little out there and immature. Hopefully, you can give me more insight into what it really is but if it really is simply she just fell out of love with me then I accept that too.

Not sure people can fall back into love but at this point, I have tried everything and it just never seemed to do any good.

November 6, 2016

Downtown, I think we've got a winner! *Ding* *Ding* Ding*

November 6, 2016

Downtown, I think we've got a winner! *Ding* *Ding* Ding*

What do you mean? Lol

November 6, 2016

What do you mean? Lol

I intend to explain in just a few minutes, Bradley.

November 6, 2016

Bradley, as Frozen observes above, your post #40 essentially says you are seeing a strong pattern of BPD traits, i.e., most of the 18 warning signs. Specifically, you identify 11 of them (traits 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, 15, 17, and 18) as applying to your exGF. Moreover, after I provide a better explanation of several other warning signs, I believe you will agree that they apply strongly as well.

#3. Irrational jealousy.... You say she is very jealous but that her jealousy is "not irrational." I should have been clearer as to what I mean by "irrational jealousy." I mean that the jealousy was not caused by cheating or any actions on your part that would give her a rational, well-founded basis for being jealous. In that sense of the term, you are saying that her jealousy was unfounded and, hence, "irrational." Specifically, you say "She was always really jealous of anyone who came around me as she thought I always came across confident and always thought she would lose me to another girl."

#5. Flipping between adoring you and devaluing you.... You say "I am not really too sure" about this one. Really? You acknowledge that "She did flip randomly" and that as a result you "always felt the opposite" (i.e., felt that it was YOU, not her, who was always walking on eggshells).

#9. Fear of abandonment or being alone.... To this trait, you respond "Never." But, significantly, you describe her many times as having a strong abandonment fear. You say, e.g., she "missed me wayyyy more then I missed her when I left to go on trips to see my family. She would be almost crying because she missed me so bad after 2 weeks. We were together all the time." You also say her strong jealousy arose from her fear that "she would lose me to another girl." You state, "She ALWAYS thought she was going to lose me because she was so 'stupid' and she 'looked like a man.'" And you state that "she was a mess if I wasn't around." Sounds like a strong abandonment fear to me.

#11. Lack of impulse control.... In response, you say "not so much" and "I am not too sure about this one." You nonetheless concede that she did "binge eat a lot" and that binge eating "is why we had a HUGE majority of our fights." You also describe her as so impulsive that she often flipped between liking her friends on one day and disliking them the next. You also describe her as so impulsive that your fights "would quickly go from me talking really calm about them to her EXPLODING."

Moreover, you describe a woman who has so little control over her impulses and other emotions that she cannot do self soothing or regulate her own emotions. The result, you say, is that "I was ALWAYS taking care of her emotions and she was a mess if I wasn't around. She couldn't handle the smallest little things and they would end up blowing up if I didn't calm her down." Sounds like a lack of impulse control to me.

#16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends.... In response, you say "Nope, she has ONE friend" whom she cannot stand to be around. My bad. I should have written that trait to say "Although she MAY or MAY NOT have many casual friends, she has no close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away). The point of the trait is to describe behavior in which the person pushes away any casual friend who makes the mistake of drawing close. The result is that such a person has no long-term friends. This behavior is strongly consistent with your description of a young woman who is pushing everyone away who draws close.

Not sure people can fall back into love but at this point, I have tried everything and it just never seemed to do any good.

Bradley, your ambivalence about falling "back into love" with your exGF is a scary thought to me. You recognized 11 of the 18 BPD warning signs as strongly applying to her behaviors. And, based on your other remarks, I suspect you may add another 5 signs -- bringing the total to 16 of the 18 red flags.

If she really is a BPDer, I'm concerned you are not out of the woods yet. It is common for BPDers to break up a R/S many times before eventually walking away for good. Because they hate to be alone, it is common for them to pull their ex-partners back into the toxic R/S with love bombing and sweet promises. I therefore offer several suggestions.

As an initial matter, if you ever feel tempted to take her back, I would suggest you immediately see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you have been dealing with for 7 years. As I've discussed in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists generally are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder -- for the client's own protection.

Second, if you suspect your exGF has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Third, I suggest you read three online articles that may help. Two of them are Surviving a Breakup with a BPDer and Leaving a Partner with BPD at BPDfamily. The third article is the best explanation I have found of how excessive caregivers (like you and me) get to be this way during our childhoods. It is Shari Schreiber's blog article at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with our parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are).

Finally, Bradley, please don't forget those of us on this LoveShack forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Indeed, your thread has already attracted nearly 1,200 views in just a few days.

November 6, 2016

Bradley, as Frozen observes above, your post #40 essentially says you are seeing a strong pattern of BPD traits, i.e., most of the 18 warning signs. Specifically, you identify 11 of them (traits 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 10, 13, 14, 15, 17, and 18) as applying to your exGF. Moreover, after I provide a better explanation of several other warning signs, I believe you will agree that they apply strongly as well.

#3. Irrational jealousy.... You say she is very jealous but that her jealousy is "not irrational." I should have been clearer as to what I mean by "irrational jealousy." I mean that the jealousy was not caused by cheating or any actions on your part that would give her a rational, well-founded basis for being jealous. In that sense of the term, you are saying that her jealousy was unfounded and, hence, "irrational." Specifically, you say "She was always really jealous of anyone who came around me as she thought I always came across confident and always thought she would lose me to another girl."

#5. Flipping between adoring you and devaluing you.... You say "I am not really too sure" about this one. Really? You acknowledge that "She did flip randomly" and that as a result of you "always felt the opposite" (i.e., felt that it was YOU, not her, who was always walking on eggshells).

#9. Fear of abandonment or being alone... To this trait, you respond "Never." But, significantly, you describe her many times as having a strong abandonment fear. You say, e.g., she "missed me waylay more then I missed her when I left to go on trips to see my family. She would be almost crying because she missed me so bad after 2 weeks. We were together all the time." You also say her strong jealousy arose from her fear that "she would lose me to another girl." You state, "She ALWAYS thought she was going to lose me because she was so 'stupid' and she 'looked like a man.'" And you state that "she was a mess if I wasn't around." Sounds like a strong abandonment fear to me.

#11. Lack of impulse control... In response, you say "not so much" and "I am not too sure about this one." You nonetheless concede that she did "binge eat a lot" and that binge eating "is why we had a HUGE majority of our fights." You also describe her as so impulsive that she often flipped between liking her friends on one day and disliking them the next. You also describe her as so impulsive that your fights "would quickly go from me talking really calm about them to her EXPLODING."

Moreover, you describe a woman who has so little control over her impulses and other emotions that she cannot do self-soothing or regulate her own emotions. The result, you say, is that "I was ALWAYS taking care of her emotions and she was a mess if I wasn't around. She couldn't handle the smallest little things and they would end up blowing up if I didn't calm her down." Sounds like a lack of impulse control to me.

#16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends.... In response, you say "Nope, she has ONE friend" whom she cannot stand to be around. My bad. I should have written that trait to say "Although she MAY or MAY NOT have many casual friends, she has no close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away). The point of the trait is to describe behavior in which the person pushes away any casual friend who makes the mistake of drawing close. The result is that such a person has no long-term friends. This behavior is strongly consistent with your description of a young woman who is pushing everyone away who draws close.

Bradley, your ambivalence about falling "back into love" with your exGF is a scary thought to me. You recognized 11 of the 18 BPD warning signs as strongly applying to her behaviors. And, based on your other remarks, I suspect you may add another 5 signs -- bringing the total to 16 of the 18 red flags.

If she really is a BPDer, I'm concerned you are not out of the woods yet. It is common for BPDers to break up a R/S many times before eventually walking away for good. Because they hate to be alone, it is common for them to pull their ex-partners back into the toxic R/S with love bombing and sweet promises. I therefore offer several suggestions.

As an initial matter, if you ever feel tempted to take her back, I would suggest you immediately see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you have been dealing with for 7 years. As I've discussed in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists generally are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder -- for the client's own protection.

Second, if you suspect your exGF has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Third, I suggest you read three online articles that may help. Two of them are Surviving a Breakup with a BPDer and Leaving a Partner with BPD at BPDfamily. The third article is the best explanation I have found of how excessive caregivers (like you and me) get to be this way during our childhoods. It is Shari Schreiber's blog article at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with our parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are).

Finally, Bradley, please don't forget those of us on this LoveShack forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Indeed, your thread has already attracted nearly 1,200 views in just a few days.

Thank you for the response back. I guess you would know WAY more as to the subject than I would. I just have seen many traits in her that say she has SOMETHING mentally wrong and she seems to acknowledge it too. I have tried to get her and her family to seek some kind of help for this but she has not. The only thing she had done was go get Prozac but never took it. Her brother and sister are both on it as well. I am not fully sure what Prozac is for but they seemed to describe it for depression for her but they had never talked to her about it.

I always just assume she had very very low self esteem issues. I have low self esteem issues myself but it was never as bad as she experienced. She was always bad mouthing others and acting superior to them but when out with people she always felt stupid. She felt stupid around my family and friends. She felt she could never be herself and always turned into this shy timid thing. I would like to believe something happened as her turning on a dime just seemed irrational to me. I took a lot of time researching though and people who "fall out of love" tend to do just that, though.

Here is where I get very honest lol... It took her two months but when we were talking again she shared with me that the MAIN reason she left me was because she never felt good enough for me. She always felt inferior to me and I just do not understand why. The ONLY explanation was we argued a lot about her weight... She was a good 60 pounds over weight most of our relationship together and at 5 foot it showed. I, being an immature STUPID 20-year-old voiced my opinion on the matter constantly. First it was because she talked about it SOOOOO much and I just wanted to help her but after hearing her talk about it for months and months and me watching her eat excessive amounts of foods because "her mouth was hungry" but she wasn't actually hungry I started to lose my temper about the subject constantly. I did because she used it as an excuse for everything.

When going on dates together she NEVER got dressed up because she felt unattractive and uncomfortable. She would end up wearing one my t-shirts even though I told her she looked beautiful in something else. Do you have any clue how much that would hurt me? Because she never did. It made me feel undervalued. Like what I thought was less important than how she felt about what others thought about her. Not only that, but she had NEVER initiated sex. I can't even tell you one time she ever did when she didn't get drunk first. I had to BEG for her to be intimate with me.

I had to sit her down and explain how I was always loving and caring towards her, which she agreed at times, and how much I REALLY needed some kind of affection back. It was constant but I always just chalked it down to immaturity again.. like everything else. I figured we could work through it together.

Aside from all that I still have a couple of things that bother me to no end... WHY if she doesn't love me anymore, why does she not just get rid of my stuff? Why does she refuse to remove memories of me from her life? I also know for a fact she still has our photos up on facebook. She had removed a few but a huge portion of them are still there. Why even keep those? Why keep my clothes?... why keep all my stuff if it hurts her so bad and she is done? Is it out of guilt?

Another thing that bugs me is why all the excessive profanity... It is like she turned into a crazy teenager. All she wants to do is drink and now she cusses like no other. Even in her ramblings about missing me super bad, she was cussing so much. She has ALWAYS hated cussing and talked bad about others who cuss... Why NOW does she all of the sudden cuss? Is this a trait she learned from someone else since I have been gone or what? 7 years to very little cussing to this is just.... insane to me.

The reason I talked about falling back in love was for before. I held onto the hope because that was her sole reason for leaving me. I kept giving her space and trying to slowly work through the problems but it would quickly turn to her SCREAMING at me. "IDK! IDK IDK IDK IDK!" One thing that will never leave my mind was one day I was here and I was hurting so bad and had 0 answers to what had happened. I tried talking about how she felt and she absolutely refused. I told her "I am just hurting right now and I need to understand WHAT it is that I did wrong in the relationship so I never do it again in my next one. I just need to know. I need some kind of closure please." her response" I don't know brad! ok?! how many times do I have to say it???! I don't want to talk about it!" It had been over a month since we talked and all I wanted was answers. She refused to give them to me and I guess I pushed too hard but it's strange how someone can be so cold all of the sudden.

When someone falls out of love with you I guess the natural response is to look for ways to make them fall back in love. If it IS a mental illness she has then I know her falling back in love is a BAD thing. I want nothing to do with it and need someone more stable for a future together.

One thing I wanted to add more light on was the fact about her weight. We had constant arguments but after a while, I came to accept it. I told her how beautiful she was to me but it's like she could NEVER let it go. She resented me for a long long time for the fights we had. I ONLY felt this way because I was immature myself and not sure how to rationally talk about it and I thought it affected our WHOLE life together. I tried to get her to exercise and it would always end in a week. I tried to help her in any way and she would spend 100s of dollars on diets that did not work. She and mom both did this and it made me sick watching all that money goes down the drain.

I know the best way to lose weight is to just go the gym and eat healthily. She never wanted to do that. She would make promises about going and when I would end up having to go alone over and over and over and over I got a little resentful and she could tell I was upset. I hardly ever voiced my opinion on the subject but she could tell I was disappointed and would explode at me every single time. Did I deserve it? Maybe but I always felt how she reacted was a little excessive.

She finally tells me the only reason she can make out she fell out of love with me was when we started to argue more and she felt so small compared to me in the bedroom. The reason? Because she would ask me what to do and I would show her things. I NEVER bitched at her. I never got frustrated with her I just tried to help her as I was her first sexual partner. She had 0 experience and that was ok with me yet somehow, in the end, she felt inferior to me because I showed her what to do when she ASKED me what to do. I don't get it.

She also shared she never forgave me for making her feel low for her weight and I admit the first year I did very much. I was frustrated as I felt it impacted every aspect of our relationship. We couldn't do anything together and ended up never having sex because of it. I guess she held onto it and resented me for it. She even told me a month or so ago. "if you had NEVER said one thing about my weight and told me I was beautiful I would of felt beautiful with you." Sept that is flat out a lie. She was so insacure it was insane. Even when I told her she WAS drop dead gourgous and complimented her constantly through out the day she STILL didn't feel attractive. She would of felt that way with or without me fighting with her on the subject.

Funny part of all of this? She was VERY self concious about her weight yet she bad mouthed her mother and sister all the time. She talked about how fat her sister was all the time and asked me constantly if she was as big as her sister. If her body was as miss shappen as her mom. Consantly asking me if she was as fat as this girl or that girl. I always figured thats what girls do but with her it was a little excessive. She woul bad mouth heavier girls that were in fact smaller than her but I NEVER pointed this out. I just secretly had resentment for the fact she did.

I had resentment she never showed me love. I had resentment she let her weight affect our relationship so much yet did nothing about it. I had resentment I had to beg her to do things for me. I had resentment she never did nice little things for me and I was the one always doing them.

I now have this deep resentment because of all those things and somehow... somehow... SHE fell out of love with ME. Does that make sense? I had several reasons to fall out of love with her and I always just worked through it. I put her well being before mine and sacrificed a lot. I left everthing behind and built a life with her just to be thrown away like garbage.

Thats why I have had a hard time with this whole thing and I know I will never fully understand but it just makes you feel better knowing she possibly has some illness. I just can't fathom how she never saw all the good I did for her and her excuses of how unhappy she was with me but was VERY happy with me most of the time.

I wasn't always happy too but I feel my reasons for falling out of love are far greater then what she has and I feel hurt, betrayed and confused.

Probably went on a rant there but I tend to do that. lol.

November 7, 2016

Oh also I wanted to see a counselor BEFORE all this happened. I was constantly trying to get us to go see one as it was very clear she had issues and could not discuss how she felt. She even said to me after she broke up with me

"I know I have issues... I know I can't let stuff go and I escalate things. I know it might one day come in bite me in the butt but who knows." I told her "I am really hurt because it already has... It bit you in the butt with us and destroyed our relationship over something so small. " her response "awwwww brad! probably! I might be making the biggest mistake in my life!"

Is that not a childish response? Is that what someone deserves after 7 years together? All her responses were like that. Treating me like a child.

That is why I figured we needed to see someone and planned on it before the wedding.

November 7, 2016

The only thing she had done was go get Prozac but never took it. Her brother and sister are both on it as well. I am not fully sure what Prozac is for but they seemed to describe it for depression for her but they had never talked to her about it.

Yes, Prozac is an antidepressant. Many BPDers suffer from depression. A 2008 study found that 80% of female BPDers also have at least one co-occurring mood disorder. A third of them, for example, suffer from Major Depressive Disorder. Although an antidepressant may reduce the depression, it likely won't make a dent in the BPD itself. At this time, the general view is that BPD cannot be treated with medication.

The MAIN reason she left me was because she never felt good enough for me. She always felt inferior to me and I just do not understand why.

If she is a BPDer, she likely has been carrying an enormous burden of self loathing and intense shame since early childhood. Because she does not love herself, she is convinced that nobody else will love her when they find out how empty she is on the inside. Hence, although you may have convinced her for a few days at a time that you love her, she lived in fear that you would walk away and abandon her as soon as you discovered her true nature. As the years go by, a BPDer's abandonment fear usually grows more painful as she sees her body aging and gaining weight. It therefore is common for this pain to become so severe that a BPDer will preemptively abandon YOU -- before you have a chance to do it to her. That way, she avoids the extreme pain of actually being abandoned.

I now have this deep resentment because of all those things and somehow... somehow... SHE fell out of love with ME. Does that make sense?

Perhaps she did fall out of love with you. Yet, if she is a BPDer, it is more likely that -- as her abandonment and engulfment fears grew -- she "split off" her loving feelings for you, putting them out of reach of her conscious mind. As I tried to explain earlier, a BPDer is too immature to tolerate strong mixed feelings. Hence, when you trigger her fear of abandonment or engulfment, her anger towards you will trigger her subconscious to place her loving feelings far out of reach of her conscious mind. For a more detailed explanation, please see my posts in Rebel's Thread.

She even told me a month or so ago. "if you had NEVER said one thing about my weight and told me I was beautiful I would of felt beautiful with you." Sept that is flat out a lie. She was so insecure it was insane.

I believe you are correct. If she is a BPDer, she has been hating herself since childhood. Hence, if she didn't have your weight comments to blame, she would have blamed her insecurities and self hatred on something else. You were in a lose-lose situation no matter what you did or said.

She had NEVER initiated sex. I can't even tell you one time she ever did when she didn't get drunk first. I had to BEG for her to be intimate with me.

In addition to the abandonment fear, BPDers also have a great fear of engulfment -- i.e., a suffocating feeling of being controlled and taken over by their partner's strong personality during intimate moments. This is why it is common for sexual activity to go off a cliff right after the courtship period ends. During courtship, most BPDers usually are able to be very passionate and sexual during intimacy.

The reason they are able to do so is that their infatuation over the partner holds their two great fears at bay. They are temporarily convinced he is the nearly perfect man who has come to rescue them from unhappiness. As soon as that infatuation starts evaporating, however, the two fears return and it is impossible for you to avoid triggering them.

If your exGF is a BPDer, what is unusual in her case is that you say she never really enjoyed sexual activity -- even during the courtship period. Given that situation, and given that you say she generally hates to be around other people, you may be describing some co-occurring moderate traits of Schizoid PD. If so, it would not be surprising. The vast majority of BPDers also suffer from strong traits of one or two co-occurring PDs.

WHY if she doesn't love me anymore, why does she not just get rid of my stuff? Why does she refuse to remove memories of me from her life?

If she is a BPDer, there is a good chance her love for you is still there but is split off to where her conscious mind is not in touch with it. As to her death grip on your stuff and memories, keep in mind that a BPDer has such a weak ego that she often will rely on other people -- and sometimes rely on other peoples' "stuff" -- to shore up her ego and help to provide her with a self identity.

Another thing that bugs me is why all the excessive profanity?... She has ALWAYS hated cussing and talked bad about others who cuss... Why NOW does she all of the sudden cuss? Is this a trait she learned from someone else since I have been gone or what?

If she is a BPDer, I suspect you are correct about her mirroring the behavior of "someone else" in her life -- e.g., someone like her "cousin." As I noted above, a BPDer tends to act differently when dating someone new because, having no real sense of who she is, she will try to mirror the features of his personality. This is why, following a breakup, it is common for the ex-partner to complain that his BPDer exGF is behaving very differently and is now dating someone who bears no resemblance to her ex-partner.

One thing that will never leave my mind was one day I was here and I was hurting so bad and had 0 answers to what had happened.... I need some kind of closure please." her response" I don't know brad! ok?! how many times do I have to say it???!

If she is a BPDer, her lack of awareness of why she is feeling a certain way -- or why she is behaving a certain way -- is to be expected. By its very nature, BPD makes the person feel so shameful that she has little incentive to develop much self awareness of her own motivations and actions. Instead, her subconscious works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting her hurtful feelings and thoughts onto her partner. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously believe that those bad feelings and thoughts are truly coming from YOU.

...about her weight. We had constant arguments but after a while, I came to accept it. I told her how beautiful she was to me but it's like she could NEVER let it go. She resented me for a long long time for the fights we had.

If she is a BPDer, she will be inclined to blame you for every misfortune and unhappiness. In that way, she is able to validate her false self image of being "The Victim." Always "The Victim." A BPDer doesn't know who she is but, to the extent she has a lasting self identity, it is the false self image of being "The Victim." In order to "validate" that false identity, a BPDer typically carries with her a mental list of every infraction you ever committed (real or imagined). And she won't hesitate to pull out the ENTIRE list in order to win the most minor of arguments.

She felt so small compared to me in the bedroom. The reason? Because she would ask me what to do and I would show her things.... she felt inferior to me because I showed her what to do when she ASKED me what to do. I don't get it.

If she is a BPDer, she has been feeling "inferior" since early childhood. That feeling did not start with your showing her "what to do." As I noted earlier, BPDers have such weak egos that they cannot tolerate intimacy for very long. Although they crave intimacy like nearly every other adult, they cannot handle it for too long.

Even when I told her she WAS drop dead gorgeous and complimented her constantly through out the day she STILL didn't feel attractive. She would of felt that way with or without me fighting with her on the subject.

When a person cannot love herself, she cannot believe that you will continue to love and desire her when you find out what she is truly like on the inside. And, when a person is so unstable that she cannot trust herself, she is incapable of trusting you to be honest and candid with her for an extended period. Hence, if she is a BPDer, she feels an emptiness inside that is like a bottomless pit of need. Trying to fill it up is as futile as trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.

I just can't fathom how she never saw all the good I did for her and her excuses of how unhappy she was with me but was VERY happy with me most of the time.

If she is a BPDer, you likely are correct that she was VERY happy with you much of the time. What you should consider, however, is that -- as with all young children -- a BPDer's perception of reality is fully determined by whatever intense feelings she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Those feelings are so intense that she is convinced they MUST be true.

She therefore does not realize that her intense feelings are actually distorting her perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This is why it is common for a BPDer to have a great time at an event and, a week later, recall the event as being very unpleasant. And this is why the ex-partners of BPDers oftentimes will say that the BPDers "rewrite history in their own minds."

I wanted to see a counselor BEFORE all this happened. I was constantly trying to get us to go see one as it was very clear she had issues and could not discuss how she felt.

If your exGF is a BPDer, seeing a marriage counselor likely would be a total waste of time until she has had at least several years of individual therapy. Although MCs usually are good at teaching communication skills, a BPDer's issues go far beyond the lack of those skills. A BPDer needs to learn basic emotional skills like self soothing, emotion regulation, how to avoid black-white thinking, how to stay in the present instead of escaping into the past and future through daydreams, and how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts."

November 7, 2016

Sometimes when its broken you just can't fix it...

Just saying...

November 7, 2016

When a person cannot love herself, she cannot believe that you will continue to love and desire her when you find out what she is truly like on the inside. And, when a person is so unstable that she cannot trust herself, she is incapable of trusting you to be honest and candid with her for an extended period. Hence, if she is a BPDer, she feels an emptiness inside that is like a bottomless pit of need. Trying to fill it up is as futile as trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.

Man, this just gave me goosebumps. As I read it, I saw a flash of images race in my mind. It still is mindboggling to me no matter how many times I read your posts Downtown, how spot on you are every single time. I still find it hard to believe that I wasn't the cause for all my Ex's problems in life as she had me convinced that I was.

Popbradley, I'm really sorry this has happened to you. If your ex is a BPDer then at least you know it wasn't you, it was her. It's something those of us who've been where you are at had to come to terms with. It's not easy, especially when you love the person and want to help them. To find out that there's nothing YOU can do and all the love and support you did give to them was only driving them away, well, it's not an easy pill to swallow.

I can see you are desperate to understand what happened, to get closure. The thing is, when you are dealing with someone who has BPD traits, closure is a luxury we rarely are privy to. The bpdfamily website is an excellent source of information and the community is wonderful. You might find the answers and help you seek there.

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