Why can't it be about two good people finding themselves in an impossible situation

October 28, 2016

I have been following these threads on LS for a couple of weeks and I see the pain that A cause. it has opened my eyes and generated huge amounts of empathy for all people involved. However I also see so much blame being put on the mm. my question is why can't an affair be the case of two good people finding themselves in a situation that neither of them ever expected them to be in?

I'M a Mw and me and my xMM ended things two weeks ago. we had known each other for 6 years and became BF , two years ago it became a PA and then we returned to being BF in April. Two weeks ago his wife expressed her discomfort with us continuing to be such close friends. We agreed that our family structure as it was, was too important to each of our happiness to cause any more tension and we decided to not cause any more problems on the home front. We ended the EA and we have not contacted each other in 11 days.

I don't think that all people that enter into A our bad people, they find themselves In impossible situations. My xMM is an incredible person, he was not trying to manipulate me in anyway. we both were so lonely before meeting each other, we got caught up in the joys of finally finding intamicy on more then a Physical level. Yes it's horrible that we stole time away from our spouses. WE made bad decisions. But ultimately we were just trying to be happy in life. we were goid people caught in an impossible situation.

October 28, 2016

All those "reasons" are just really excuses though.

Good people don't cheat on their spouses. Good people get divorced first. Good people don't [] put their selfish desires before their families.

There are no "impossible" situations. Everything is possible if you want it enough.

Now I'm Not saying that there is not good in people who cheat. They can be good parents (except for the cheating)good pastors, good charity workers etc. they are not good people when it comes to their marriage.

This is what pisses me o[ff] about affairs. Everyone has a big sob story why they're different. Why they couldn't help it, why they're not really like this but but but......

We are inherently good as a people. So when we do bad things, we want to give any reason to justify it so that we don't have to face our dark parts.

Edited October 28, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

October 28, 2016

I have been following these threads on LS for a couple of weeks and I see the pain that A cause. it has opened my eyes and generated huge amounts of empathy for all people involved. However I also see so much blame being put on the mm. my question is why can't an affair be the case of two good people finding themselves in a situation that neither of them ever expected them to be in?

I'M a Mw and me and my xMM ended things two weeks ago. we had known each other for 6 years and became BF , two years ago it became a PA and then we returned to being BF in April. Two weeks ago his wife expressed her discomfort with us continuing to be such close friends. We agreed that our family structure as it was, was too important to each of our happiness to cause any more tension and we decided to not cause any more problems on the home front. We ended the EA and we have not contacted each other in 11 days.

I don't think that all people that enter into A our bad people, they find themselves In impossible situations. My xMM is an incredible person, he was not trying to manipulate me in anyway. we both were so lonely before meeting each other, we got caught up in the joys of finally finding intamicy on more then a Physical level. Yes it's horrible that we stole time away from our spouses. WE made bad decisions. But ultimately we were just trying to be happy in life. we were goid people caught in an impossible situation.

Impossible situation? How so?

Listen you don't wake up one morning as a married woman in love with another man. You have made choices and decisions all along the way that push boundaries. You could have stopped at any point. You did find yourself in this situation, it didn't just happen you created it, knowingly willingly and intentionally. You acted selfishly the resulting pain and turmoil is a result of your actions and not some predestined path chosen for you by a higher power.

October 28, 2016

When it comes to a MM hooking up with a MW I don't think there is any difference between them and neither can claim to be a victim. They are both selfishly pleasing themselves at the expense of their families and risking their spouses and their children's security for their fun on the side.

When it comes to single OW, well it doesn' take a masters degree to know that feelings are probably going to develop and at some point the OW is probably going to want more. If you have read the stories here then you have probably read about the many MM who have lied and manipulated their OW into staying and hoping while he does nothing to keep his promises. In that case it's not just about two people using each other, it's about a married person manipulating everyone in the situation to get his own needs met. He is stealing time and happiness from both his wife and the OW just to keep his own fun going.

October 28, 2016

I have been following these threads on LS for a couple of weeks and I see the pain that A cause. it has opened my eyes and generated huge amounts of empathy for all people involved. However I also see so much blame being put on the mm. my question is why can't an affair be the case of two good people finding themselves in a situation that neither of them ever expected them to be in?

I'M a Mw and me and my xMM ended things two weeks ago. we had known each other for 6 years and became BF , two years ago it became a PA and then we returned to being BF in April. Two weeks ago his wife expressed her discomfort with us continuing to be such close friends. We agreed that our family structure as it was, was too important to each of our happiness to cause any more tension and we decided to not cause any more problems on the home front. We ended the EA and we have not contacted each other in 11 days.

I don't think that all people that enter into A our bad people, they find themselves In impossible situations. My xMM is an incredible person, he was not trying to manipulate me in anyway. we both were so lonely before meeting each other, we got caught up in the joys of finally finding intamicy on more then a Physical level. Yes it's horrible that we stole time away from our spouses. WE made bad decisions. But ultimately we were just trying to be happy in life. we were goid people caught in an impossible situation.

It's not about the people being involved in the A being good or bad people, and to be frank, what difference does it make anyway? It doesn't change anything or lessen the hurt an A causes.

Think of it this way. You and your AP are driving in a car. Without intending to, you are so in to a conversation between the two of you that you aren't paying attention and you drive straight into a crowd of people, injuring a number of them.

You didn't mean to hurt them, you weren't being evil or vindictive, you were just careless. You are not bad people. While that might make you feel better,it doesn't do anything to lessen the hurt you have caused.

In effect, what you and your ap have done is asked a group of people to pay the price for your fleeting moments of happiness. from their point of view,do you think their pain is a fair price to pay?

You and your ap may be wonderful people, but that doesn't change what you did. You didn't get caught up in something you couldn't control. While the feelings may have been beyond your control, the part that you could control-your actions- were hurtful. That doesn't make you an evil or terrible person, but as I said above, that doesn't change the emotional consequences of what you have done.

October 28, 2016

Would you feel the same way if you found out your husband had an A with a MW and he gave you the "Her and I are perfect for each other but it's just bad Timing" line?

Would that lessened the blow?

October 28, 2016

Thank you everyone for your replies. It provides valuable insight. I am not justifying my actions in anyway. and I take full responsibility for them.

I just don't think all xMM mean to manipulate OW. I think there is so much negativity, ange, hatred and mental health issues tgat sometimes we try to just find a way to be happy. I agree A cause all sorts if selfish pain. But I'm responoble for that pain not my xMM

Would you feel the same way if you found out your husband had an A with a MW and he gave you the "Her and I are perfect for each other but it's just bad Timing" line?

Would that lessened the blow?

I would feel complete empathy for him to be honest. I know that providing a home for our kids is more important to both me and my husband then our own happiness. We have had this conversation. We know we don't have the intamicy required but we have an amazing partnership in raising our kids. And our home is stable and positive

Edited October 28, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

October 28, 2016

Thank you everyone for your replies. It provides valuable insight. I am not justifying my actions in anyway. and I take full responsibility for them.

I just don't think all xMM mean to manipulate OW. I think there is so much negativity, ange, hatred and mental health issues tgat sometimes we try to just find a way to be happy. I agree A cause all sorts if selfish pain. But I'm responoble for that pain not my xMM

Maybe not always and maybe not in the beginning- in the beginning it is usually two people with poor boundaries creating a friendship (sort of like the frog in the pot of water that boils slowly and doesn't realize the water is boiling until it is and then he is stuck). Once affairs progress and the push and pull starts there is a lot of manipulation typically on both parts - especially if this is a MW and MM case. Maybe the manipulation isn't intentional but it happens because neither of you want to lose your drug and you get to a point where you would do anything to keep it.

You also said something in your original post about just trying to find your happiness in life. This is how I felt too so i am not lashing out but this is an entitlement thing. For some reason we feel entitled to happiness even if we have to trample over everything and everyone to get that happiness. None of us are entitled to happiness - you have to work for happiness.

I agree with you people who have affairs are not bad people they are just making terrible choices - but a person who continues to make terrible choices and starts to compartmentalize things for so long can eventually become a very bad person because you begin to excuse the things you are doing in your own mind and this becomes how you live your life.

October 28, 2016

As the topic concerns discussion of why good people can or cannot find themselves in an impossible situation and/or affair, and the thread starter is not currently involved with a committed partner nor is apparently seeking advice for their own marriage, we've moved this general question on good people and affairs to GRD and invite commentary on that topic.

Please be mindful that taking personal shots at the thread starter will inevitably lead to a less than good outcome for the trigger-happy poster. Thanks and enjoy your morning.

October 28, 2016

Maybe not always and maybe not in the beginning- in the beginning it is usually two people with poor boundaries creating a friendship (sort of like the frog in the pot of water that boils slowly and doesn't realize the water is boiling until it is and then he is stuck). Once affairs progress and the push and pull starts there is a lot of manipulation typically on both parts - especially if this is a MW and MM case. Maybe the manipulation isn't intentional but it happens because neither of you want to lose your drug and you get to a point where you would do anything to keep it.

You also said something in your original post about just trying to find your happiness in life. This is how I felt too so i am not lashing out but this is an entitlement thing. For some reason we feel entitled to happiness even if we have to trample over everything and everyone to get that happiness. None of us are entitled to happiness - you have to work for happiness.

I agree with you people who have affairs are not bad people they are just making terrible choices - but a person who continues to make terrible choices and starts to compartmentalize things for so long can eventually become a very bad person because you begin to excuse the things you are doing in your own mind and this becomes how you live your life.

This is an excellent point. Good people get tempted and can find themselves in a situation, but truly good people can't continue down that path. They recognize the damage being created and right the ship. Not to say that one who continues is bad, but maybe not so good. Sometimes it's hard to tell because it's covered in selfish self serving behavior and entitlement. One who thinks it's with their right to maintain a stable comfortable marriage and deserve whatever they won't on the side....Those people don't usually accept their type of behavior from their partners.

October 28, 2016

Nothing is impossible.

If they are two people who are supposed to be together then why treat their existing spouses in such a terrible way to start? Why not admit the feelings and if they are that strong and they want to be together split up with their existing partners, spend some time on their own to rediscover themselves as individuals and to ensure everything is over with their exes then after a couple of years get together.

That is the right way of going about it.

Most are so into themselves and have such selfish tenancies that they only think about what they want. Affairs rarely work out well. Its all a mush of emotions and is not well thought out. People are ditched and treated badly...

Just not worth it.

Your friend has done the right thing by backing off to save his family. If he takes his time and decides that he is not happy then he can do something about that himself.

October 28, 2016

I know that providing a home for our kids is more important to both me and my husband then our own happiness. We have had this conversation. We know we don't have the intamicy required but we have an amazing partnership in raising our kids. And our home is stable and positive

Except kids arent stupid. They know when it's being "faked". Every single one of my friends whose parents stayed together "for the kids" resents their parents huge for being weak and living an unhappy lie. Oh you're a family...yet families don't keep secrets from each other. They figure it out and their opinion of you will not be good when they do.

Yeah divorce is scary especially with kids...but you owe your kids the truth and to show them there is more to life than maintaining the "image" of family.

October 28, 2016

I agree, OP, that not all people who have an affair are bad people. Many do have difficult or intolerable situations, and make bad choices. I think our concepts of marriage and monogamy are too idealistic and inflexible, too. As we know, a fifth to a quarter of all people have an affair - and it could be a lot more, if some studies I've seen are correct, and especially if you include emotional affairs.

Still, social conventions aren't going to change anytime soon, so the perceptions, stigma, and condemnations will persist. I prefer a model of marriage that is more open, where outside attractions are acknowledged and managed openly and honestly. This won't fix existing problems, but knowing that your partner may openly seek comfort elsewhere can be very motivating to address issues seriously. Or, you can each just have some occasional fun without worrying that you'll destroy your relationship. As I said, though, it's not going to happen, except for those couples who put in place such an agreement before affairs happen.

October 28, 2016

Good people are not selfish. Affairs are selfish.

October 28, 2016

I agree, OP, that not all people who have an affair are bad people.

Good people are not selfish. Affairs are selfish.

There you go. Affairs are one of many instances of good people doing bad things. We can hate the sin but still love the sinner.

we were good people caught in an impossible situation.

That's a line guaranteed to drive BS's crazy. It's not an impossible situation, there are many possible solutions besides cheating...

Mr. Lucky

October 28, 2016

What really is the difference between a "good" person deliberately doing bad things, and a bad person?

October 28, 2016

I don't think that all people that enter into A our bad people, they find themselves In impossible situations. My xMM is an incredible person, he was not trying to manipulate me in anyway.

I used to think falling in love with a married person is the last thing I'll ever do - I used to scorn people who did because in my mind, there are plenty of fish in the sea (we're talking about single people who fall in love with those who are taken).

Until I fell in love with one.

So it's established - you can't control who you fall in love with. Falling in love with anyone does NOT make you a bad person. However, acting on that emotion does. Because an affair involves not just you two, but potentially at least one or two other innocent people who get dragged into the mess. Then we can talk about the family of both sides, etc etc. Most of all, by having an affair you not only betrayed your partner/spouse, but also yourself, by going back on the promise of being faithful to/exclusive with them (I don't make a distinction between cheating in a relationship and in a marriage, betrayal is betrayal, a marriage only matters because of legal things).

So then what should good people do? This.

Good people don't cheat on their spouses. Good people get divorced first.

As for me, the one I fell in love with, let's call him person E, and I got along incredibly well and remained close friends for the short time we knew each other (3 months, but it was close to 24/7 exposure as we worked together on a project). I was single at the time, he was married, we were both in our early 20's. As the feelings evolved every day seeing him brought both joy and pain, and I was so tempted to confess my feelings but successfully resisted, because what would happen if he took that confession and had doubts about his marriage? Wouldn't I be destroying a good woman's life? Not that I think I was enough to break them apart, it seemed to be a very strong marriage, but to make sure bad things don't happen, you need to not set up the possibility. The fact that we were always appropriate the entire time helped me resist it too. He was such a decent person, talked about his wife all the time, never flirted with other women like most of the (married) men around him as far as I could see - so I just couldn't tempt such a man to turn into a bad person. As far as I'm concerned, he liked me as a friend, and I'd rather not find out if he ever liked me more than that.

After we finished our project (I left the project before he did), I wrote him a card thanking him for the friendship we had, and then stopped all contacts. Took me quite a while to recover (probably because it was the "impossible", that made it more devastating in my mind too), but what else is there to do? I don't want to sound like a righteous hypocrite, but I was very proud of myself - in such a closed off environment that was perfect for cheating (many men openly did so), he (as far as I know) and I held strong. If you consider yourself a good person, then don't make bad choices. Temporarily your heart may break, but in the end you'll eventually find happiness while still retaining your pride and solace in knowing other than you yourself, nobody else was hurt.

Edited October 28, 2016 by niji

October 28, 2016

What really is the difference between a "good" person deliberately doing bad things, and a bad person?

Good question for a successfully reconciled BS. I'd guess it's like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder.

If you consider that infidelity is but one of many sins, very few of us haven't deliberately done some bad things in our lives..

Mr. Lucky

October 28, 2016

I think there is a misconception that "poor character" means people are evil and intentionally manipulative. I definitely don't think most people in affairs are sociopathic.

However, many people have poor or weak characters, due to a variety of reasons, such as past trauma, dysfunctional upbringings, mental illness, addiction, poor coping skills, etc.

Does an explanation for their selfishness make their actions any less damaging? The end result is hurt and pain, regardless of intent.

I understand people in affairs often see themselves as confused and lost, just searching for love and happiness. They didn't mean to cause collateral damage. They blame their childhoods and past trauma. All of that may be true. But think about it. Pedophiles use the same excuses. I'm not saying affairs are the same as child abuse, but the thought process, the victim mentality, is the same. They can't see past their own feelings. Their emotions, their needs and their satisfaction is in the forefront of their minds. Their spouses and family's feelings are an afterthought.

October 28, 2016

And what if it is? Does that make it any less wrong, hurtful and potentially destructive?

What was 'impossible' about it anyway? You went ahead and did it so it clearly wasn't impossible.

October 28, 2016

I've used this analogy in another thread, but it applies here.

A mm/mw or ow/om may be good people doing a bad thing. they may have had a hard life, be in an unhappy marriage,be happy but simply want more, or who knows what.

the things is that what gives them the right to throw their proverbial skeletons into the closet of the bs, the children and others who will be affected?

Is asking them to pay the price acceptable, because that is who will be the ones who pay. Sure, the mm/mw or om/ow may be hurt if and when the A ends, but it's nothing compared to what a bs goes through.

October 28, 2016

There you go. Affairs are one of many instances of good people doing bad things. We can hate the sin but still love the sinner.

That's a line guaranteed to drive BS's crazy. It's not an impossible situation, there are many possible solutions besides cheating...

Mr. Lucky

Here's the BS being driven crazy

Are child molesters "good people"? What if they were abused? Lonely? Awkward? Only felt comfortable with kids? Does that make it ok?

Does it make it ok to rob a bank because you're a "good person" whose out of work?

How about drunk drivers? Good people that got served too much?

Excuses excuses excuses excuses. Affairs are filled with excuses. The MM/W has excuses why they aren't happy in marriage, wife is bitchy, boring, no sex, married too young, trapped financially, past abuse, no good role models, weak.

OW/M excuses - "it's looveeee". Can't help who you fall for, not my problem since I'm not married to her, he trapped me, he manipulated me, I had a bad childhood, his wife is mean to him.

BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA.

If we all just lived AUTHENTICALLY there would be a lot less destroying of people. Sure there's still be hurt but at least it would be honest.

All this lying and justifying by everyone involved in an affair so they can still say they're just "a good person who did a bad thing".

It's all a big lieZ. All of it. Live authentically. If you're unhappy, get a divorce If he's married, Leave him alone.

October 28, 2016

why can't an affair be the case of two good people finding themselves in a situation that neither of them ever expected them to be in?

I think it usually is. I mean who goes around deciding to cheat on their partner and not caring about the consequences? A few people do but it doesn't represent the majority of infidelity cases.

Most people who cheat will find a way to find excuses involving their partner's faults. I think that in most cheating cases, there is something not going well in the relationship. However, cheating is not the way to deal with difficulties in relationships.

No matter how people will try to twist it, the person at fault is always the cheater.

I even have a friend who cheated on her boyfriend because he cheated first and I didn't consider that a good excuse...

October 28, 2016

But ultimately we were just trying to be happy in life. we were goid people caught in an impossible situation.

folks can usually understand a MW/MM having FEELINGS for another person; they cannot understand ACTING on those feelings. an affair is always a choice, in fact... it means making a very conscious decision - DAILY - to cheat, hide, lie, pretend... even if it's just by omission. it means consciously CHOOSING to make a bad decision & make your life even harder.

the happiness - EVERYBODY wants to be happy. everybody feels like they DESERVE or are entitled to that happiness... just by existing. you aren't necessarily a bad person because you had an A but your post sounds like you're trying really badly to convince US and yourself that NONE of it was really your fault. the fault was in your starts, destiny... whatever.

you might be a good person who found herself in a very possible situation with few different possible choices and outcomes - you chose an affair & that is an immoral act. so rather than trying to say it was the higher force -- try to think of it as your personal flaw... a bad call because good people do bad things, too.

it is a different story if you really don't regret what you did & feel no shame or guilt for doing so - THAT would, i assume, bother you to some extent.

October 28, 2016

Well there are different types of evil in the world. I mean some people are evil in a way of deliberately trying to hurt others and such. But then there is also the type of evil that masquerades as something else in the person's own mind. When you are doing something wrong and that hurts people but tell yourself it is not really evil because x y and z reasons. This is the stuff that leads to people cheating on each other, abusing their kids or passing laws that make it impossible for the homeless to even be able to sleep anywhere without going to jail. It is especially dangerous because the more you rationalize it the deeper it embeds itself and it is a certain sort of madness that is especially poisonous.

And if you ever need some perspective then you just imagine your partner cheating on you and giving you herpes and then trying to tell you it was just an impossible situation.

Sign In

Why can't it be about two good people finding themselves in an impossible situation

Recommended Posts

Dancer07

aileD

DKT3

anika99

wmacbride

BuddyX

Dancer07

HeCantBreakMe

William

DKT3

Toodaloo

VeveCakes

central

mikeylo

Mr. Lucky

elaine567

niji

Mr. Lucky

Quiet Storm

waterwoman

wmacbride

aileD

GoreSP

minimariah

Herbalist

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...