Gaeta Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Last night, if I might mention, after talking she showed me her phone and said she would not reply to the joe-blow guy. She is leaving the text he sent to stay, rather than deleting, cause it comes to the top of her text list if there is new communication with him.. if that makes sense. So she is leaving it on there so I can see there is nothing. But you are right, more time is needed. She should have deleted and blocked them. If she blocks them they won't come up on top of anything right? She leaves it on there so you see there is nothing? pppfftt ! I am starting to think she is laughing at your face. 1
Author gorf Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 Have you thought how she is making you look like in all this? There she is in a supposedly serious relationship but flirting to attract other men's attention. How does that paint you in front of all parties involved? and in front of your friends. She created an herd of men out there that probably think you are just a pawn in her life. Everyone around you meaning your friends, family, colleagues do see how she behaves with poor respect toward you. Gaeta, that is exactly what I told her. To these guys, she is making me look like a doormat. Like I either dont exist, or that I dont care (as if its a non serious open type relationsip.. which is not what we have. Not what I want anyway, and she knows this). So its making me look like Im not a big deal to her every time she flirts with guys. Or lets them flirt with her. Ill have to see if that sinks in, and if it matters to her. Though I can tolerate a lot.. I cant tolerate this forever.
Author gorf Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 She should have deleted and blocked them. If she blocks them they won't come up on top of anything right? She leaves it on there so you see there is nothing? pppfftt ! I am starting to think she is laughing at your face. Deleting a user and blocking, on her phone, the messages still come through. They just go to a junk sorta folder if you will. Ive seen it myself. So it was my suggestion, far in the past, that she should just not reply. Any time a new message comes through, whether its deleted or not, the user that sent it to her( or her to them) causes the newest message to be on top. So if time passes and nothing is said, the user falls down in the list. Thats why she is keeping it up, for me to see
BluesPower Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 This is so depressing. Now I dont know what to do. Believe in the posibility she will recognise her actions and consequences, and how they are effecting her and us, and see a change. or wait for things to continue. While I do believe everyone is capable of change, I also know what I am up against. The question is, will it change. How likely is it to change Then given: I love this girl and am invested in her and getting to know her. I mean she has become part of my life. So its a tough call. Wait and see if things change so I dont miss out, or call it off cause it wont change. Cause its possible it will, but possible it wont. Im very conflicted. This is hard, its not like getting rid of or changing a cell phone provider.. this is a girl I love and invested in Not to dog your youth, but this is the most "mature" that you have said so far. And I think you are starting to get it. Whether you wait for her to flirt or cheat, really does not matter. I am afraid that she will. Then you will have to dump her. It is not out of the realm of possibility that she will change it is just not likely. I know that you have a lot invested in this girl, and all that is understandable. However, I think you need to look at it like the "Law of Diminishing Returns". In this situation, economically speaking, you are throwing good money after bad, or good/more "Time Invested" after bad. Good luck... 2
VeveCakes Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 I'm sorry, everyone is being really nice but I just have to lay it out there for you. She is manipulating you completely....you had the talk yet now you know and have accepted this is her way of making "friends"? Its total BS. She is a woman, not a moron. She knows exactly what she is doing. She is lining up orbitors around her because you never know, one of them may be a catch and she doesn't want to miss out on a chance. You have given her permission to test out other men while she is dating you. No one in their right mind thinks this is how you make friends....she knows exactly what she is doing (leading them on). The fact that she can't see how this crosses boundaries says it all. 3
Author gorf Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 I She is manipulating you completely....you had the talk yet now you know and have accepted this is her way of making "friends"? Its total BS. No I have not accepted her way of making friends. I totally rejected it and told her its not ok on any level, and why.
VeveCakes Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 No I have not accepted her way of making friends. I totally rejected it and told her its not ok on any level, and why. ok...sorry if I misunderstood that part. 1
Gaeta Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 I agree with Bluespower, she will eventually cheat. A relationship is something you are suppose to protect and nurture. What she is doing is playing with fire till she gets burn. One of these days one of these dudes will turn her blood enough for her to cheat. We are all humans, we are all weak, that is why when we're in a relationship we don't expose ourselves to temptation. Gorf, if you did the same as her, if you flirted around, had tons of girls seek your attention don't you think eventually one would come around and make you weak in the knee? 2
doyathinkso Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 You are being taken in by the 'sunk cost fallacy'. You would be well advised to seek out greener pastures.
Author gorf Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 I agree with Bluespower, she will eventually cheat. Yes, everyone is capable of cheating. I guess I just want to see if she means what she says. For me, if I dont at least give it a chance, I might miss out on a great girl I have gotten to know better than anyone. I have been dating for like 8 months with her and never suspected her of "being at some guys place" etc. There have been no signs, and I feel that I am pretty good at picking up on things. So I do want to give at least a month time and see if she can follow through with actions. 1
jen1447 Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Gorf my man, I'd say you handled the talk about as well as could be expected. However, as much as I hate to be pessimistic about it, what you must realize is that her underlying motivation comes from the core personality––it's simply a part of who she is, and it's probably not going away. ^ Basically. This is so depressing. Now I dont know what to do. Believe in the posibility she will recognise her actions and consequences, and how they are effecting her and us, and see a change. or wait for things to continue. While I do believe everyone is capable of change, I also know what I am up against. The question is, will it change. How likely is it to change Then given: I love this girl and am invested in her and getting to know her. I mean she has become part of my life. So its a tough call. Wait and see if things change so I dont miss out, or call it off cause it wont change. Cause its possible it will, but possible it wont. Im very conflicted. This is hard, its not like getting rid of or changing a cell phone provider.. this is a girl I love and invested in If you're confident she won't cheat (and I think that's a reasonable belief, given the circumstances and what her MO seems to be) and just have to live w her being a flirt and having orbiters, is that really so bad? I mean for some it might be, sure, but you seem devoted to her and unwilling to just walk away so why not consider just accepting her for what she is rather than try to mold her into what you want her to be? 1
Author gorf Posted October 27, 2016 Author Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) If you're confident she won't cheat (and I think that's a reasonable belief, given the circumstances and what her MO seems to be) and just have to live w her being a flirt and having orbiters, is that really so bad? I mean for some it might be, sure, but you seem devoted to her and unwilling to just walk away so why not consider just accepting her for what she is rather than try to mold her into what you want her to be? I guess because I do not fancy open relationships. From the start. She agreed. We both agreed we would not like to see the other flirting with another guy/girl. That would be a cheating sort of deal breaker. When a girl is flirting with other guys, she is not just talking to them. She is giving out sexual suggestions of availability. Thats what flirting is. And when she allows it from other guys excessively, its the same thing. The question is, does she want to suggest to guys that she is single, or not in a happy relationship? Flirting gets that message across, and makes the guy she is dating look like a lowlife to the guys she flirts with or excessively allows. If you believed in monogamy, should you allow it to happen? If I were in an open relationship, which I gather from other comments you have made, and not judging, but I would be fine with all the flirting.. cause I would not be in a relationship but rather, an arrangement, and I would not really care where the flirting led if anywhere, cause I would likely be doing the same thing. Its not about molding anyone, btw, we have talked about this and agreed. Its simple as that. Now I will give some time and see if words meet actions. Thanks jen Edited October 27, 2016 by gorf
salparadise Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 I guess I just want to see if she means what she says. For me, if I dont at least give it a chance, I might miss out on a great girl I have gotten to know better than anyone. I have been dating for like 8 months with her and never suspected her of "being at some guys place" etc. There have been no signs, and I feel that I am pretty good at picking up on things. So I do want to give at least a month time and see if she can follow through with actions. The signs are what you just had the conversation about. Now that you've put her on notice she's just going to be more careful. She'll be managing your perceptions, and she'll probably be pretty good at it. She might even modify her behavior for a month or so, but the odds of her giving up this proclivity for good are pretty close to zero. She likes the attention of multiple males pursuing her, and that's probably not something she could change even if she tried. Why do you think she's had trouble making friends of either gender? And what do you suppose it means? The usual progression of friendship is sharing > trust > sharing more > building deeper trust, and the trust and intimacy (not sexual intimacy) grow deeper and deeper. This is the way ninety-five percent of people build social networks. She isn't developing female friends because they sense her alternative method. Attachment through sexualization. She is a competitor, not a comrade. For the guys, she reels them in this way but it all boils down to will she or won't she. Her answer is maybe––stick around long enough and you might find out. You even said that she admitted to this strategy of stringing them along and maybe they'll become friends. Pfffft! This one guy that you described who touches base every few weeks is pretty shrewd. He just asks if she's still got the boyfriend. It's obvious what his interest is. But "friends?" Nah, he has no interest in pretending to be friends. He's looking to score, and she know it and likes it. It's all a game of sexualized titillation. I know you're invested and it's hard to cut someone out of your life just because she keeps putting her toe across the line and she hasn't actually stepped over it. You need to decide cognitively what you're willing to accept... where your boundaries are so that they don't get moved a mile an inch at a time. Your emotions are always going to try and get you to rationalize because it will be tough to make the break... but your cognitive mind operates separately and you can purposefully listen to each and mediate between them. I know it's hard. Keep your wits about you, man. 3
jen1447 Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 I guess because I do not fancy open relationships. From the start. She agreed. We both agreed we would not like to see the other flirting with another guy/girl. That would be a cheating sort of deal breaker. When a girl is flirting with other guys, she is not just talking to them. She is giving out sexual suggestions of availability. Thats what flirting is. And when she allows it from other guys excessively, its the same thing. The question is, does she want to suggest to guys that she is single, or not in a happy relationship? Flirting gets that message across, and makes the guy she is dating look like a lowlife to the guys she flirts with or excessively allows. If you believed in monogamy, should you allow it to happen? If I were in an open relationship, which I gather from other comments you have made, and not judging, but I would be fine with all the flirting.. cause I would not be in a relationship but rather, an arrangement, and I would not really care where the flirting led if anywhere, cause I would likely be doing the same thing. ^ I'm not advocating for open relationships ....I realize that's not for everybody. But do you actually see flirting as cheating? If so, and if her character is already established at the core and not likely to change like some of us have speculated, then you're bscly incompatible. She's not likely to stop 'cheating,' no matter how much you might want her to or even she might sometimes want to herself. So this gets down to reconciling inconsistencies in your own mind and accepting the realities for what they are - you shouldn't cling to sth you can't have. Its not about molding anyone, btw, we have talked about this and agreed. Its simple as that. Now I will give some time and see if words meet actions. Thanks jen Tiger | stripes. 2
Space Ritual Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Gorf i have to hand it to you. You are doing a yeoman's job of wanting to hear something positive. You must always be a glass half full kind of guy, or she must be tremendously good looking, or both. Guys are more likely to bury their head in the sand and get treated like crap from a very attractive woman. She will eventually rip your heart out and you will apologize to her for bleeding on your shirt in front of her. Dude, nobody is worth being treated like that. Good Luck.
BluesPower Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 Actually, one of my rules, before I reformed, was called the "Smoking Hot Rule". If she was just smoking hot, you had a greater chance of catching feelings and getting hurt. So most of the time I just let those go to some other sucker. Or at most I would just screw her one time and move on. Wow, that is so terrible to see written out. My other experience is this: The hotter they are the crazier that the are. Not all of them but a lot have been. Just saying...
jen1447 Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 My other experience is this: The hotter they are the crazier that the are. Not all of them but a lot have been. Just saying... I haven't seen that correlation actually ....seems to be an even distribution of crazy among hotness levels IME. Vanity, yes.
salparadise Posted October 27, 2016 Posted October 27, 2016 I haven't seen that correlation actually ....seems to be an even distribution of crazy among hotness levels IME. Vanity, yes. Entitlement is the correlation that I've noticed. They were gorgeous little girls who got preferential treatment at home, at school, among their peers from the time they were toddlers... and then it gets cranked up and a new dimension added when they hit puberty. They just expect that the world should beat a path to their door, they should get their way, and their opinion counts as much as ten others. I'm thinking of several specific examples. To be fair, this is some, not all. It depends a lot on how aware the parents were, and to some extent their birth order with their siblings (middle kids are less prone). So while I've always been attracted to pretty women, I've also put humility pretty high on the priority list. My [current] girlfriend doesn't even realize how attractive she is –– says she doesn't get hit on much so she must be average. She's not. 3
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