Is this normal behavior, when should I be concerned?

[Redhead14]

She got another number, the 2nd guy I mentioned in the op. The guy from just the other day. I messages her about it (going to see her and talk later, help me out I have no idea what to say cause...) she gave the number no hesitation, then when I expressed worry, she accused me of being insecure and she cant have friends that are guys and bla bla. ive explained to her over and over its not about friends that are guys, its guys that want more than friendship. Shes basically denying he wants more than friendship and calling me insecure cause she want to keep in contact with him. Like facebook and the messenger on fb was not good enough for an aquantence she never talked to, who is single, who asked if she was single, desperately wants to talk more, and facebook isnt good enough. Please someone help me with this I meet her in a few hours. Its not ok but shes playing the 'just friends game' too many times

 

Just take a hard line with her. Tell her you are committed to her and that you are not being insecure, she is giving you empirical reasons for being concerned. It's one thing to have male friends that she had established friendships with before she entered into a committed relationship with you and it's another thing to continue to collect new ones and give them her number and that this is a deal breaker for you. If she cannot respect your feelings and concerns, then the relationship is over. If she hems or haws or turns it around on you again, you end it right then and there and go no contact.

 

I promise you that if this were the other way around, she would be up your behind.

[IfonlyIknew]

We all have our own set of boundaries and some we aren't even aware of until it hits us, your gf has crossed that. It doesn't make you insecure or jealous, you feel disrespected. She is going to continue to do what she can get away with, even if its innocent in her eyes. Go ahead and tell her how you feel. The real deal is if it truly means nothing to her, then she will respect your comfort zone.

[BluesPower]

Look, have you read what people have said?

 

She is playing with you. She could be screwing all the guys that she allows to flirt with her and the ones that she has gave her number to (WTF?).

 

You just need to drop her. Are you so insecure that you cannot stand up for yourself?

 

Is her PU**** mink lined or something?

 

Just kick her to the curb and move on, please. If you don't stand up for yourself and have some balls now, you may never have them.

 

Find a new woman, I bet she won't bat an eye when you dump her.

[salparadise]

She got another number, the 2nd guy I mentioned in the op. The guy from just the other day. I messages her about it (going to see her and talk later, help me out I have no idea what to say cause...) she gave the number no hesitation, then when I expressed worry, she accused me of being insecure and she cant have friends that are guys and bla bla. ive explained to her over and over its not about friends that are guys, its guys that want more than friendship. Shes basically denying he wants more than friendship and calling me insecure cause she want to keep in contact with him. Like facebook and the messenger on fb was not good enough for an aquantence she never talked to, who is single, who asked if she was single, desperately wants to talk more, and facebook isnt good enough. Please someone help me with this I meet her in a few hours. Its not ok but shes playing the 'just friends game' too many times

 

Uh oh, not good.

 

I don't think there's much use in trying to convince her that this is inappropriate. She knows it is. She also knows that the reason she has given him her number is because she's attracted to him and wants the attention.

 

I think you just need to inform her that you're not that naive, and that you have too much self-respect to be hanging around while she flirts and cultivates this guy. This assumes that you actually are resolute.

 

If you're not, just tell her ok sweetie, whatever you say and learn to enjoy the cuckold lifestyle.

Edited October 26, 2016 by salparadise

[gorf]

thanks all. Ill update you all later on when I talk to her.

[VeveCakes]

thanks all. Ill update you all later on when I talk to her.

 

Please be firm.

 

Regardless of her accusing you (gaslighting), she is being inappropriate. No woman needs men as friends she JUST met...these are not old friends. These are men who want to get with her and she is loving the attention. She can play the "I told them I had a bf" game all she wants.

 

She has no respect for you....sorry OP

[Redhead14]

thanks all. Ill update you all later on when I talk to her.

 

All the best, Gorf. Be tough and don't accept anything less than what you want and deserve . . .

[jen1447]

I do think she likes the attention and she's actively cultivating these guys, but not all women do that w the intention to cheat. For some it's just a form of self-validation.

 

Another thought on this tho is there may be a very specific reason she's with you, and that's bc you tolerate this sort of thing. She may just not be the stereotypical white picket fences monogamous bliss type. (Which again doesn't necessarily mean she's the cheating type either.)

[Hopeful30]

You should tell her this bothers you. I believe that women have incredible power when it comes to letting a guy know she's not interested. If he isn't getting the point, then I agree with you, she's not giving it to him straight.

 

It's possible that SHE'S insecure and isn't harsh enough to trigger some jealousy in you, so you react and confirm your feelings for her (woman-child move). It's her way of calming her insecurities. When I'm in a relationship, I make it clear that I have a man and I respect him enough not to continue this conversation because I know the guy talking to me has not-so-innocent intentions.

[Gaeta]

she want to keep in contact with him. Like facebook and the messenger on fb was not good enough for an aquantence she never talked to, who is single, who asked if she was single, desperately wants to talk more, and facebook isnt good enough. Please someone help me with this I meet her in a few hours. Its not ok but shes playing the 'just friends game' too many times

 

It's immaturity, or inexperience, or she's a player. I mean who has time to add strangers on their phone for chat? unless they have ulterior motives.

 

Good luck Gorf and keep us updated.

[gorf]

Ok, so I talked to her. We talked about a lot of things. We talked about what we see in each other moving forward and if we are a match that works. She believes we are. I was very firm that I am not naive enough to accept the 'friends' thing. Maybe that was her motive, but I know its not his (or some of these guys in general). I made it clear that's what I thought, and why, and I stuck to it. She was very defensive at first, then calmed down and explained what was up. As I know, she is attractive slightly flirty type. Its how she always has been. But now she is learning what is acceptable in a committed relationship. At first defensive, she came round and basically said she would not be ok with it if that were a random girl hitting on me and collecting a number, calling it friends or not it would be uncomfortable for her. She went on to say some of the peeves she has with me, like the long term relationship is what she wants with me, but she is not used to it (she was in one, her first, didn't end well). She feels sometimes I am clingy sometimes, but wouldn't elaborate much, she usually went with the gruffy badboys, which I am sorta but not exactly. So it was a change she was not expecting, but got her out of a rough lifestyle meeting me. I told her to let me know what kind of changes I can make, if there are any comprimises. She says she is happy where we are at and its a perfect relationship as far as she is concerned

 

As for the guys and numbers, she admits her flirty side comes out. Its a mix of attention, and getting someone to notice. Then lets them know she is not available. She said multiple times her hope is that once they are around, and see she is not available, they will still like her and want to be friends. Its a flirty way of making friends, I guess you could say. She lets them know she is taken, and told me I am it. I am the only one for her and her future is with me

 

We talked about guys who are friends. She thinks I dont like guy friends, I reaffirmed that I am totally fine with that.... its guys who don't appear to be out for friendship I am not ok with. We went on to talk about the future and what we mean to eachother and I thanked her for talking to me. Not sure what will happen from here, but Im just going to keep going and see if there are healthy changes (as there have been since I have met her).

Edited October 27, 2016 by gorf

[h0000]

ah, the attention seeking and flirty kind of people is the least I ever want to deal with and would never be in a relationship with, no matter how attractive and nice they are otherwise.

Good luck OP, you've got a lot to deal with if she doesn't stop

[Gaeta]

There is something very dysfunctional about her.

 

In short she uses flirting to get attention, once she gets their attention she lets them know she has a boyfriend and hope these guys will accept that and just be friends? I don't get it.

 

1. You don't attract men with flirt if you are aiming at friendship with them

2. Why the need to have so many male friends and to make new male friends?

 

I don't know Gorf, there has to be some dysfunction underneath it all. Apparently women that use men for attention are lacking self-worth, maybe an absent father? When the first male attention you got was sexual attention it can warp your mind.

[Redhead14]

Ok, so I talked to her. We talked about a lot of things. We talked about what we see in each other moving forward and if we are a match that works. She believes we are. I was very firm that I am not naive enough to accept the 'friends' thing. Maybe that was her motive, but I know its not his (or some of these guys in general). I made it clear that's what I thought, and why, and I stuck to it. She was very defensive at first, then calmed down and explained what was up. As I know, she is attractive slightly flirty type. Its how she always has been. But now she is learning what is acceptable in a committed relationship. At first defensive, she came round and basically said she would not be ok with it if that were a random girl hitting on me and collecting a number, calling it friends or not it would be uncomfortable for her. She went on to say some of the peeves she has with me, like the long term relationship is what she wants with me, but she is not used to it (she was in one, her first, didn't end well). She feels sometimes I am clingy sometimes, but wouldn't elaborate much, she usually went with the gruffy badboys, which I am sorta but not exactly. So it was a change she was not expecting, but got her out of a rough lifestyle meeting me. I told her to let me know what kind of changes I can make, if there are any comprimises. She says she is happy where we are at and its a perfect relationship as far as she is concerned

 

As for the guys and numbers, she admits her flirty side comes out. Its a mix of attention, and getting someone to notice. Then lets them know she is not available. She said multiple times her hope is that once they are around, and see she is not available, they will still like her and want to be friends. Its a flirty way of making friends, I guess you could say. She lets them know she is taken, and told me I am it. I am the only one for her and her future is with me

 

We talked about guys who are friends. She thinks I dont like guy friends, I reaffirmed that I am totally fine with that.... its guys who don't appear to be out for friendship I am not ok with. We went on to talk about the future and what we mean to eachother and I thanked her for talking to me. Not sure what will happen from here, but Im just going to keep going and see if there are healthy changes (as there have been since I have met her).

 

Draw a mental timeline for yourself. You need to see effort on her part within a certain period of time -- a couple of weeks, a month, but no more than that. If you are still feeling as though she isn't putting more effort into dissuading guys, you need to end it. Don't string yourself along. She's acknowledged that she didn't really know what's expected in a committed relationship and that she would not be happy if you were getting/accepting attention from random women. So, now she KNOWS and has acknowledged it. There are no excuses now . . . don't accept any.

 

Its a flirty way of making friends -- This is a distinction without a difference -- It's leading men on . . . and there's an underlying reason for that which is usually a sign of an unresolved emotional void . . .

[gorf]

There is something very dysfunctional about her.

 

In short she uses flirting to get attention, once she gets their attention she lets them know she has a boyfriend and hope these guys will accept that and just be friends? I don't get it.

 

1. You don't attract men with flirt if you are aiming at friendship with them

2. Why the need to have so many male friends and to make new male friends?

 

I don't know Gorf, there has to be some dysfunction underneath it all. Apparently women that use men for attention are lacking self-worth, maybe an absent father? When the first male attention you got was sexual attention it can warp your mind.

 

Im not denying that. I know her party past. Like I said, its something she is getting away from. She has always struggled with making friends, and attention is something she does get. So she uses it that way. Its how she has been. She has basically never been told by anyone but me that this is unacceptable in a healthy relationship. Whether she is making friends or not, it seems to me the guys are getting a different message. Ill have to wait and see if she finds a healthy way to make friends, or continues. I can only take her word at this point that she accepts its not a good thing, as she said. I proceeded to tell her to take advantage of the people she knows for a fact 100% just want to be friends. Ya know, the people maybe she knew before that lost contact with. Thats all they ever wanted. I told her not to forget about them, they might be waiting for a call.

 

As for your last few sentences, she has a bit of low self esteem. She was raised by her dad who was very strict, but not absent. Her first relationship was a long term (ended up being about 2 years) with a guy who ended up, you guessed it, flirted with other girls and called them friends. She accepted it. Then he ended up cheating on her with one of them. It destroyed her. She believed that her insecuritys surrounding him 'making friend' forced him to cheat on her and push her away. I told her basically thats nuts. You cant force someone to cheat on you.. they either choose to be faithful or not. Anyway, so now im just seeing how to proceed. We are together and Im trying to see what changes I can make or compromise on, without bending on what I believe is right. I feel ok about it, its up to her

[gorf]

Draw a mental timeline for yourself. You need to see effort on her part within a certain period of time -- a couple of weeks, a month, but no more than that. If you are still feeling as though she isn't putting more effort into dissuading guys, you need to end it. Don't string yourself along. She's acknowledged that she didn't really know what's expected in a committed relationship and that she would not be happy if you were getting/accepting attention from random women. So, now she KNOWS and has acknowledged it. There are no excuses now . . . don't accept any.

 

Its a flirty way of making friends -- This is a distinction without a difference -- It's leading men on . . . and there's an underlying reason for that which is usually a sign of an unresolved emotional void . . .

 

I cannot agree more redhead. Ill make a timeline and try to stick to it. Its tough after getting invested in someone and giving it your all. But I wont string myself on. Ive made myself clear, in fact more than once. I need to see change and the flirting needs to stop if she is serious about me cause Im not going to be a doormat while she acts available in some way. If she is going to act available over the next few weeks or month or so, then I will make sure she is available for sure Its hard to say that, but I have to be firm in what I believe whether she accepts it or not

Edited October 27, 2016 by gorf

[Space Ritual]

Ok, so I talked to her. We talked about a lot of things. We talked about what we see in each other moving forward and if we are a match that works. She believes we are. I was very firm that I am not naive enough to accept the 'friends' thing. Maybe that was her motive, but I know its not his (or some of these guys in general). I made it clear that's what I thought, and why, and I stuck to it. She was very defensive at first, then calmed down and explained what was up. As I know, she is attractive slightly flirty type. Its how she always has been. But now she is learning what is acceptable in a committed relationship. At first defensive, she came round and basically said she would not be ok with it if that were a random girl hitting on me and collecting a number, calling it friends or not it would be uncomfortable for her. She went on to say some of the peeves she has with me, like the long term relationship is what she wants with me, but she is not used to it (she was in one, her first, didn't end well). She feels sometimes I am clingy sometimes, but wouldn't elaborate much, she usually went with the gruffy badboys, which I am sorta but not exactly. So it was a change she was not expecting, but got her out of a rough lifestyle meeting me. I told her to let me know what kind of changes I can make, if there are any comprimises. She says she is happy where we are at and its a perfect relationship as far as she is concerned

 

As for the guys and numbers, she admits her flirty side comes out. Its a mix of attention, and getting someone to notice. Then lets them know she is not available. She said multiple times her hope is that once they are around, and see she is not available, they will still like her and want to be friends. Its a flirty way of making friends, I guess you could say. She lets them know she is taken, and told me I am it. I am the only one for her and her future is with me

 

We talked about guys who are friends. She thinks I dont like guy friends, I reaffirmed that I am totally fine with that.... its guys who don't appear to be out for friendship I am not ok with. We went on to talk about the future and what we mean to eachother and I thanked her for talking to me. Not sure what will happen from here, but Im just going to keep going and see if there are healthy changes (as there have been since I have met her).

 

Young man, I won't beat around the bush or give you false hope. I'll just tell you what is probably more than likely to happen. If you want someone to tell you everything is alright, and this is just a bump in the road, then do not read the rest of my post.

 

I have read the entire thread and based on that, there is a fairly easy conclusion to come to.

 

She is an attractive woman. Attractive people of both genders, hell even non attractive people as well, like attention. It's a pretty big ego boost for people to be flirted with and hit on. Kind of hard to compete with that kind of euphoria.

 

So basically the talk you had was you basically getting the conversation turned around on you and it did not stay on the subject at hand. So basically you now know that regardless of how you feel, her behavior is not going to change. Your girlfriend getting attention and getting hit on at every turn is a very difficult thing to be up against, and frankly, it will continue unabated. Her remarks about you being clingy and whatever are smoke signals from her that you better just accept the fact that your relationship will continue to have orbiters for it's duration. You might as well accept that her coming at you with that clingy remark is going to be her go to response every single time when she continues to talk to these guys and you question her intentions.

It will eventually be all your fault when she goes MIA some weekend or starts an argument with you so she can go out on a Friday night "with a friend". This is a fairly common script that many young people follow. even older people follow it as there is little deviation from this type of stupidity.

 

I hate to tell you, but you are already sunk. The conditions already exists that she will cheat on you if and when she feels like it.

 

I'm very sorry, but you might as well start the exit process. Your relationship will not improve. Many of us here have seen this movie a thousand times and it always ends the same, bad.

 

Go find yourself someone who does not have a steamer trunk full of orbiters, because with this girl, this is about as good as it's going to get.

 

Good Luck

Edited October 27, 2016 by Space Ritual

[salparadise]

As I know, she is attractive slightly flirty type. Its how she always has been.

 

But now she is learning what is acceptable in a committed relationship. At first defensive, she came round and basically said she would not be ok with it if that were a random girl hitting on me and collecting a number, calling it friends or not it would be uncomfortable for her.

 

She went on to say some of the peeves she has with me, like the long term relationship is what she wants with me, but she is not used to it (she was in one, her first, didn't end well). She feels sometimes I am clingy sometimes, but wouldn't elaborate much

 

she usually went with the gruffy badboys, which I am sorta but not exactly. So it was a change she was not expecting, but got her out of a rough lifestyle meeting me.

 

As for the guys and numbers, she admits her flirty side comes out. Its a mix of attention, and getting someone to notice. Then lets them know she is not available. She said multiple times her hope is that once they are around, and see she is not available, they will still like her and want to be friends. Its a flirty way of making friends, I guess you could say.

 

We talked about guys who are friends. She thinks I dont like guy friends, I reaffirmed that I am totally fine with that.... its guys who don't appear to be out for friendship I am not ok with.

 

II know her party past. [...] She has always struggled with making friends, and attention is something she does get. So she uses it that way. Its how she has been.

 

She has basically never been told by anyone but me that this is unacceptable in a healthy relationship.

 

Whether she is making friends or not, it seems to me the guys are getting a different message.

 

she has a bit of low self esteem. She was raised by her dad who was very strict, but not absent.

 

She believed that her insecuritys surrounding him 'making friend' forced him to cheat on her and push her away. I told her basically thats nuts.

 

Gorf my man, I'd say you handled the talk about as well as could be expected. However, as much as I hate to be pessimistic about it, what you must realize is that her underlying motivation comes from the core personality––it's simply a part of who she is, and it's probably not going away.

 

Having the talk and saying she now gets that it's inappropriate to cultivate orbiters is one thing, but changing the fundamental internal need for that kind of attention is quite another. You even explained where it originates –– raised by her strict father. What happened to the mother?

 

I was actually going to ask about her relationship with her mother. There is quite a bit of theory/research surrounding the effects of disrupted or nonexistent mother-child relationships. Even a somewhat inattentive mother can cause developmental issues. It's related to the stages of psycho-sexual development (loss of primary caretaker, switching to father as primary). I won't go into it further but you can google if interested (see link at bottom).

 

The result of not getting that unconditional, motherly love and affirmation during the brief window of developmental opportunity in early childhood is an incomplete sense of self, lack of ability to know one's intrinsic value, often an inability to self-soothe and regulate negative emotion. Therefore the deficit requires compensation in the form of continual external validation.

 

They often learn to use sexuality (even preadolescent) to get this need met and they develop a personality organization that connects sexual attention to temporarily relief of the feelings caused by the deficit... whereas most people have no such need for external sources because the core self is more complete.

 

There are other clues in what you wrote. When she says, "believed that her insecuritys surrounding him 'making friend' forced him to cheat on her and push her away," she's rationalizing. Put that together with her saying that you're too clingy, yada, yada and she has a scenario where she doesn't have to own it––because it's YOUR behavior that's causing it. This is likely to come up again.

 

I know it's hard when you're invested and we can all sit here and judge without having a dog in the fight... but you need to keep a close eye on things without being clingy or intrusive. Give her opportunity to show you what her proclivities are. This is more important than managing her behavior. I suspect that she will always need the attention of orbiters, and that ultimately you will have to make decisions about what is right for you.

 

I'd say it would be prudent to divest somewhat and think objectively about the big picture. A few names to google are Kernberg, Ruesch, and Zetzel. They've all published research on personality organization that is probably relevant. Here is an interesting paper by Ruesch that goes into the etiology of this whole range of personality variants.

[gorf]

This is so depressing. Now I dont know what to do. Believe in the posibility she will recognise her actions and consequences, and how they are effecting her and us, and see a change. or wait for things to continue.

 

While I do believe everyone is capable of change, I also know what I am up against. The question is, will it change. How likely is it to change

 

Then given: I love this girl and am invested in her and getting to know her. I mean she has become part of my life. So its a tough call. Wait and see if things change so I dont miss out, or call it off cause it wont change. Cause its possible it will, but possible it wont. Im very conflicted. This is hard, its not like getting rid of or changing a cell phone provider.. this is a girl I love and invested in

[stillafool]

As for the guys and numbers, she admits her flirty side comes out. Its a mix of attention, and getting someone to notice. Then lets them know she is not available. She said multiple times her hope is that once they are around, and see she is not available, they will still like her and want to be friends. Its a flirty way of making friends, I guess you could say. She lets them know she is taken, and told me I am it. I am the only one for her and her future is with me

 

 

So does she have any interest in making female friends and is this her method? Did you ask her why she needs so much attention from males? Isn't she getting enough attention from you? She sounds like a player who only likes bad boys she has to chase.

[Gaeta]

This is so depressing. Now I dont know what to do. Believe in the posibility she will recognise her actions and consequences, and how they are effecting her and us, and see a change. or wait for things to continue.

 

While I do believe everyone is capable of change, I also know what I am up against. The question is, will it change. How likely is it to change

 

Then given: I love this girl and am invested in her and getting to know her. I mean she has become part of my life. So its a tough call. Wait and see if things change so I dont miss out, or call it off cause it wont change. Cause its possible it will, but possible it wont. Im very conflicted. This is hard, its not like getting rid of or changing a cell phone provider.. this is a girl I love and invested in

 

As Redhead suggested give yourself a timeline to see improvement.

 

After the conversation you've had, if she is serious, she should take immediate action like delete the random joe-blows she added lately.

 

If she is to take steps to correct the situation you should see it within a couple of weeks to a month.

[Redhead14]

This is so depressing. Now I dont know what to do. Believe in the posibility she will recognise her actions and consequences, and how they are effecting her and us, and see a change. or wait for things to continue.

 

While I do believe everyone is capable of change, I also know what I am up against. The question is, will it change. How likely is it to change

 

Then given: I love this girl and am invested in her and getting to know her. I mean she has become part of my life. So its a tough call. Wait and see if things change so I dont miss out, or call it off cause it wont change. Cause its possible it will, but possible it wont. Im very conflicted. This is hard, its not like getting rid of or changing a cell phone provider.. this is a girl I love and invested in

 

You made a decision to sit down and talk with her and explain your position. So, it's best to let this play out for one reason -- so that if/when you do decide to end it, you can walk away knowing you put your best effort into it. You communicated a need in the relationship, so now it's on her to demonstrate her ability to do her part. There will be no "what ifs", coulda woulda shoulda for you.

 

Remember you timeline and stick to it. If you do that, you can realize that there is an end one way or another -- either she does what she needs to do or you will end it in a month's time or two weeks, whatever you can tolerate. It's not going to be forever that you are in "limbo" so to speak. Now you need to rest on your decision, you've communicated clearly and effectively -- she acknowledged and understood -- so now observe and not be hesitant or build up anxiety because you won't be able to be objective in your observations going forward if you're doing that.

[gorf]

So does she have any interest in making female friends and is this her method? Did you ask her why she needs so much attention from males? Isn't she getting enough attention from you? She sounds like a player who only likes bad boys she has to chase.

 

I guess how I would answer that is like I mentioned, she has had a hard time making friends in general. Men and women. I cant say whether she is a player exactly, or just has made poor decisions on how to go about making friends. Either way, I did express my concern and explained why its not healthy in a relationship to give false hope to other guys, even if the objective is friendship.

[gorf]

 

After the conversation you've had, if she is serious, she should take immediate action like delete the random joe-blows she added lately.

 

Last night, if I might mention, after talking she showed me her phone and said she would not reply to the joe-blow guy. She is leaving the text he sent to stay, rather than deleting, cause it comes to the top of her text list if there is new communication with him.. if that makes sense. So she is leaving it on there so I can see there is nothing. But you are right, more time is needed.

[Gaeta]

I guess how I would answer that is like I mentioned, she has had a hard time making friends in general. Men and women. I cant say whether she is a player exactly, or just has made poor decisions on how to go about making friends. Either way, I did express my concern and explained why its not healthy in a relationship to give false hope to other guys, even if the objective is friendship.

 

Have you thought how she is making you look like in all this? There she is in a supposedly serious relationship but flirting to attract other men's attention. How does that paint you in front of all parties involved? and in front of your friends.

 

She created an herd of men out there that probably think you are just a pawn in her life. Everyone around you meaning your friends, family, colleagues do see how she behaves with poor respect toward you.