delilah32 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Been doing A LOT of hardcore introspective balls-to-the-wall honest assessment of all my relationship bull**** patterns going back to middle school since getting dumped a couple weeks ago. See my other threads for more particulars, but a question that keeps coming in and out of of view is, do I just ****ing hate men? I mean that not rhetorically. I really think I have a fundamental lack of respect for men...like in the generic sense...you know, Maleness....masculinity as a construct...not necessarily ALL men. Has anyone else ever grappled with this when dealing with a broken heart?
FTM042014 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Not a lady but after being treated poorly and getting hurt by two straight women, I've struggled with feeling this way about all of them. I realize that it's more about who I let into my life. I have bad taste lol. 3
MsJayne Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Hell yeah. I don't hate men, but I do have a lot of disrespect for them, and not just when a relationship goes wrong, it's pretty well a constant. I think it comes from a deep-seated resentment about how, no matter how liberated and educated we are, if we come from a background where we've been suppressed by patriarchy it affects us for the rest of our lives, often stopping us from reaching our full potential, and maybe we subconsciously carry that resentment into relationships and then set about venting our repressed anger at some poor guy. Most of my relationships end because I either find the man insufferably dull or interesting but deeply offensive. I always wonder why I missed out on finding someone who I enjoyed hanging out with and also was attracted to, but I also wonder if it's just because early in my life I was made to feel not good enough, so now it's payback time. Screwed up, I know, but true. 1
Zapbasket Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Having never had close, solid relationships with either male caregivers or mentors growing up or with male romantic partners, I've struggled with this question, too. None of the three men with whom I had long-term romantic relationships really wowed me. There was some part of me from the very beginning that recognized they didn't really measure up, and the relationships all were characterized by me making all kinds of intellectual labyrinths of excuses for their lacks in order to preserve the feeling of, "But I love him." And two of the three of them, I really did. But I don't think they deserved it. And recognizing that did make me wonder whether I fundamentally don't respect men or more specifically, the social construct of "masculinity," as you say. Here's what I've learned from the hell of my last breakup: of course I don't respect the social construct of masculinity. It's not respectable. "Men don't like to have to change." "Men want what they want when they want it." "Men don't like to talk about feelings or have a bunch of discussions about things." "Men don't like to be with a woman who is smarter or more accomplished than they are." I mean, ICK! How can you like men when that is how they're characterized? I realized that because that is what I was told by my milieu to expect in a man, that's all I expected, and so that's what I dated, and so I was only frustrated because none of that is acceptable or desirable to me. I'm now on a hold-out for a DIFFERENT kind of man. I believe that one day I can find a man who is comfortable talking about feelings and the relationship, who is proud of my intellect and accomplishments and does not begrudge me my success, who is able to empathize with others and set his needs aside at times, and who is eager to grow and is introspective and always wanting to improve. I want a man who has the self-confidence and self-knowledge to do these things in HIS way, rather than in the way *I* might do these things. And our differences in approach can be one of the things that enriches our liaison, rather than creates negative conflict. What I have defined is not a developed MAN, but a developed PERSON. I realized that my thinking was flawed because I allowed myself to see the men around me through the prism of the social tropes that supposedly define what masculinity is. When what it really is is a fluid expression of tendencies along a broad spectrum of HUMANITY, that is un-gendered yet contains qualities of both masculine and feminine that perhaps are best not *defined*, but *felt*. It might take me a long time before I find the kind of man I want. And increasingly, I'm okay with that. Afraid, yes...but more accepting of it every day. If I'd had this thinking at the time of the starts of my three long-term relationships, I'd not have lasted very long in any of them. This is a complex subject and I'm glad someone brought it up. I hope some of what I wrote was articulate.... 2
evanop Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Been doing A LOT of hardcore introspective balls-to-the-wall honest assessment of all my relationship bull**** patterns going back to middle school since getting dumped a couple weeks ago. See my other threads for more particulars, but a question that keeps coming in and out of of view is, do I just ****ing hate men? I mean that not rhetorically. I really think I have a fundamental lack of respect for men...like in the generic sense...you know, Maleness....masculinity as a construct...not necessarily ALL men. Has anyone else ever grappled with this when dealing with a broken heart? Yes. I have felt this many a time when being dumped in the most cruel ways. Especially after they promised me the world. I am bisexual, so I have had relationships with women also, where, for some reason, I never had such experiences, even though I am aware it's not just men who are *******s. It's people. People are simply selfish individuals who only care about themselves. My ex broke up because he thought he needed to be with other women before being able to settle down. He also wanted to focus on himself and his business. I can tell you, this made me mad as hell. Yeah, I get it, you need to focus a bit on yourself, but you can do this with a strong partner by your side. And then... him wanting to be with other women, that aspect is just nuts. You either know you love someone or you don't. All the wishy washy around it 'i love you so much, i am so confused' is all selfish bullcrap talk. And I have had about enough of it. Not going to be with anyone ever again, I think. I will be just a sad old cat lady. No wait... a HAPPY old cat lady 1
evanop Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Here's what I've learned from the hell of my last breakup: of course I don't respect the social construct of masculinity. It's not respectable. "Men don't like to have to change." "Men want what they want when they want it." "Men don't like to talk about feelings or have a bunch of discussions about things." "Men don't like to be with a woman who is smarter or more accomplished than they are." I mean, ICK! How can you like men when that is how they're characterized? I realized that because that is what I was told by my milieu to expect in a man, that's all I expected, and so that's what I dated, and so I was only frustrated because none of that is acceptable or desirable to me. I'm now on a hold-out for a DIFFERENT kind of man. I believe that one day I can find a man who is comfortable talking about feelings and the relationship, who is proud of my intellect and accomplishments and does not begrudge me my success, who is able to empathize with others and set his needs aside at times, and who is eager to grow and is introspective and always wanting to improve. I want a man who has the self-confidence and self-knowledge to do these things in HIS way, rather than in the way *I* might do these things. And our differences in approach can be one of the things that enriches our liaison, rather than creates negative conflict. Interesting. My ex definitely fits in the description of what you look for in that second paragraph, and he STILL left me. because even though he wants a strong, independent woman, and event hough he is always striving to improve, and even though we were communicative as **** in our relationship... he still left. Because he loved himself more than me. And he needed to be 'alone' to 'improve'. So what's the point?
Pete2304 Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I will say this much: I've been told I'm too nice. Nice isn't sexy. I'm Sorry to hear you had all been treated badly. I've had the same from a wife who was far from "nice". You can't assume the same of all men though because then every relationship is doomed from the start surely? I always take new people as I find them be they new friends or work colleagues. Give every person new in your life a clean slate.
keiji Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 The thing you need to avoid, and it takes a lot of work and effort, is extrapolating one person's wrongdoings to a whole genre, race, you name it. I put all my trust in my ex-wife, like I had never done before with anyone, even my own family. Nine years later she cheated on me and, to top it all off, she treated me like garbage, made me responsible for her own deeds, withdrew our money from the bank and turned my life into hell. The first thing I did was starting therapy because I could clearly see the outcome: misogyny. Six years later I can say that, after two failed attempts, I do have more than a few reservations about long-term relationships and the sort of commitment I had with my ex-wife, but I've managed to leave resentment behind and live without fearing I may be betrayed again. And I'm really glad I worked hard on it, because the other option is a direct speedway to unhappiness. 3
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