Friends? I think not. [affair partner wanting to be friends with betrayed?]

October 20, 2016

A bit of background...

The whole relationship between the two of them, from the day he first met her, lasted a couple of months. The A, a few weeks.

She had been posted in form another base, and they worked together. She'd hurt her leg, and couldn't drive for a few weeks,and since she lived a few streets over, his warrant asked if he could drive her ( i saw the email form him when it came, as we shared the same email address at the time).

The few week long A ended, and he sent her a message that I saw, which apologized to her, aid the A was over, etc. She sent me "the email with the "let''s be friends,you can come to me for marriage advice" etc.

My husband deployed for several months a few days later, and that is when the weird emails from her started. She'd go on about how she was going to hurt herself and it was my fault, that she thought I was a great person, that she thought I was awful, etc. She'd sit outside our house in her car, watching me and our kids play out int he yard. She approached us while we were out shopping and said something to our kids about their dad being gone and that he might not come back and made them cry. She sent him an "anonymous" email telling him I was cheating on him ( I most certainly was not) and more. It kept on until his COC had to get involved to get her to stop. It actually took legal assistance and her being posted away to end her behavior. It did, for a few years.

Oh no....

That's why we need the full story instead of generalizations. I mean, she used to sit outside of your home in her car?

I think that my creepo-meter broke. This is level 10 of creepy

For the safety of you, your kids, and your marriage - please do not accept any friendship request from this woman. Learn some self-defense courses, get any other form of protection that you feel you need, talk to your kids/family members/school/work/neighbors that this woman is making you concerned about your safety (don't tell them about the affair) so that if she tries any funny business, kids will know to run and get help and others will call appropriate authorities.

The other day on Nancy Grace, they were talking about a fitness instructor who drove this big pick up truck, who got shot. Her and hubby were having affairs. Could've been a scorned person who offed her. Actually on Investigation Discovery/ID, there's a show called "Scorned".

October 20, 2016

Oh no....

That's why we need the full story instead of generalizations. I mean, she used to sit outside of your home in her car?

I think that my creepo-meter broke. This is level 10 of creepy
For the safety of you, your kids, and your marriage - please do not accept any friendship request from this woman. Learn some self-defense courses, get any other form of protection that you feel you need, talk to your kids/family members/school/work/neighbors that this woman is making you concerned about your safety (don't tell them about the affair) so that if she tries any funny business, kids will know to run and get help and others will call appropriate authorities.

The other day on Nancy Grace, they were talking about a fitness instructor who drove this big pick up truck, who got shot. Her and hubby were having affairs. Could've been a scorned person who offed her. Actually on Investigation Discovery/ID, there's a show called "Scorned".

The A was over 9 years ago. I used to hear a lot from her, in many assorted and unwanted ways, until, I went tot the authorities and they made her stop.

I heard form her again not that long ago. Nothing big, but I let the COC know about it and let them deal with it. I'm hoping she got some mental health help.

October 20, 2016

The A was over 9 years ago. I used to hear a lot from her, in many assorted and unwanted ways, until, I went tot the authorities and they made her stop.
I heard form her again not that long ago. Nothing big, but I let the COC know about it and let them deal with it. I'm hoping she got some mental health help.

After the A with my spouse, she tried to get one started with the spouse of a friend of mine ( I don't think she knew we are friends) and then kind of went through a bunch of other married guys,who, like my husband made the mistake of getting involved with her. None of the knew about the e A between her and my spouse, and I was surprised when I head about the others.

That was some time ago, and I have no idea of she stopped or not. From what I could tel, she's someone who gets something out of being a serial ow and sees it as some sort of indication of her attractiveness and worth.

It's really sad that someone could be that desperate for validation. I've sometimes wondered if she had a rough childhood and that made her who she is. I feel sorry for her, and wouldn't wish that on anyone.

October 20, 2016

The OW my ex cheated on me with (and got pregnant) when I was pregnant tried to befriend me.

3 years after the affair she wanted all of us to get together and go camping and wanted to offer to let us have the child 6 months out of the year. She wanted her and I to be friends.

When I said no, she was very upset. Apparently it never occurred to her that I would not wish to be friends with the woman who helped to cause me so much grief. She helped to make the last 2 months of my pregnancy a nightmare with her actions. I was put out on bedrest and had pneumonia because apparently she was sick and on antibiotics when he slept with her (which is why her birth control didn't work and she ended up pregnant). He then came home and kissed and hugged on me... giving me whatever plague she had. It turned into pneumonia for me. Those last 2 months... I laid on the couch, in the dark, watching tv endlessly and crying nonstop. The tears just never ended. It was probably one of the most difficult things I've ever had to deal with. 2 straight months of complete torture emotionally wondering where the father of my child was, unable to pay the bills because I was out of work, no food, no money, no family close by and few friends. I'd call him, she'd answer his phone, laugh at me and hang up. I lost all kinds of weight when I should have been gaining it for the baby.

3 years later I guess I was supposed to just forget all the pain, forget all the stupid crap she said to me the one time I did actually speak to her and just be friends with her for the kids sake.

The worst part about it? I actually considered it just to be the bigger woman for the sake of the kids. I couldn't do it though. I just couldn't. The idea of being friends with her or raising her child for 6 months a year just gave me so much anxiety I couldn't do it.

Her response? "You can be friends with his ex-wife but you can't be friends with me?" Um yeah, his ex-wife didn't make my life a miserable living hell.... ever. She was never anything but nice to me. Totally different situation.

October 21, 2016

The OW once said that she was sorry and that we could have been friends, I told her we would never have been friends, we are such very different people and we wouldn't have got along, not one bit. I helped her find a place in a refuge when someone told her H about the affair with my H, I didn't like her personality, we had nothing in common and I found her blaming everyone but next doors cat for her life irritating. But, I did feel sorry for her and would have felt sorry for anyone who was so unhappy with their life. I remember her once saying she wished she had my job, my lifestyle, my answer was that it took years of hard slog to get where I was and I worked over 60 hours a week as well as coping with illness. Her answer was that she enjoyed going out and getting peed up too much to do that.

But, in her world she was kind to her friends, she had two really nice children and was a good person, not by my yardstick, but I sort of understood her seeking a better life, even though all her A's were rather tawdry. I once said to her she should leave her toxic marriage and find herself and like herself rather than start yet another A or one night stand, she agreed and asked if I would be her friend, my answer was no, we could and would never be friends, aside from the A, I had friends and that we liked and did different things.

For 6 years she directed all her anger, sadness toward me, she did some truly awful things, but me and H just closed our wagons closer and hoped she would go away. It took us having to go to the police to stop it. I always got the feeling she wanted my life, she once told H she had admired me for a long time (I was well known locally politically and for charity work) and thought I was funny. I know, she had a funny way of showing that admiration, but so did H, I wished her nothing but peace and a hope she doesn't keep sleeping around to find validation, I hear she hasn't stopped. I cannot imagine trusting anyone who had an A with my husband and who was complicit in my hurt with little remorse. My friends have my back, always.

October 21, 2016

That is really bizarre thinking.

I know I would not want to be friends with the woman causing my pain and shagging my husband... Why would I?

She may well "pity" me if she likes but quite frankly I wouldn't give a damn. My pity would be for her ending up with the stack of s***e husband I was fool enough to love.

I am speaking hypothetically but even still... Pitying the woman after you hurt her? Do you bash Grandmothers over the head then feel sorry for them?

Its just a sick way of thinking.

And offering marriage advice? Dear lord... speechless... utterly speechless...

I didn't claim that it was a rational perspective, just a not uncommon one.

I've never been in that space, just as I've never been in the "it just happened" space, but there seem to be many here who have. They don't strike me as nasty, perverse or manipulative people. More likely, they were just fed information that they accepted in the absence of any countervailing information, and as a result, "felt sorry" for the BW.

If the OP's H's fOW doesn't match that spec, fair enough. She seems quite an outlier, so I doubt anyone here would be able to shed much light on her motives as they're likely to be far removed from any of our experience.

October 21, 2016

I didn't claim that it was a rational perspective, just a not uncommon one.

I've never been in that space, just as I've never been in the "it just happened" space, but there seem to be many here who have. They don't strike me as nasty, perverse or manipulative people. More likely, they were just fed information that they accepted in the absence of any countervailing information, and as a result, "felt sorry" for the BW.

If the OP's H's fOW doesn't match that spec, fair enough. She seems quite an outlier, so I doubt anyone here would be able to shed much light on her motives as they're likely to be far removed from any of our experience.

Actually, they're quite common.

I say this based on all the experiences I've ever had with serial unapologetic other women. They are all basically of the same mind set,though they will deny that with every fiber of their being.

Each of them had serious self esteem issues, some sort of personality flaw or was sorely lacking in the empathy department.

Of course, they see it differently, but their own words show the reality of the situation. I think this is where much of the difference between an ow or om who has an A and it's just a "one off" type of thing, and they feel bad and would never do it again and a serial ow/om. They have the ability to empathize, and don't want to play a role in hurting someone else. A serial ow/om doesn't have that capacity.

A serial ow/om simply lacks that ability to either empathize or view what they are doing as hurtful. However, they are excellent at rationalizing what they do, if only to themselves. This is where the ow in my situation seems to be. Since she is not capable of empathy and understanding, she doesn't feel that she did anything that bad, and can't understand why anyone else would thinks she did either. This is why she thought we could be friends, as far as I can tell.

I don't know what would make someone like that. It's as if it makes them feel somehow powerful, progressive or some other nonsense, but the reality is that it's actually quite sad. They can continuously be involved in something hurtful yet show no remorse or empathy. It's disturbing,and definitely not something to be proud of.

Edited October 21, 2016 by wmacbride

October 21, 2016

Actually, they're quite common.

I say this based on all the experiences I've ever had with serial unapologetic other women. They are all basically of the same mind set,though they will deny that with every fiber of their being.

Each of them had serious self esteem issues, some sort of personality flaw or was sorely lacking in the empathy department.

Of course, they see it differently, but their own words show the reality of the situation. I think this is where much of the difference between an ow or om who has an A and it's just a "one off" type of thing, and they feel bad and would never do it again and a serial ow/om. They have the ability to empathize, and don't want to play a role in hurting someone else. A serial ow/om doesn't have that capacity.

A serial ow/om simply lacks that ability to either empathize or view what they are doing as hurtful. However, they are excellent at rationalizing what they do, if only to themselves. This is where the ow in my situation seems to be. Since she is not capable of empathy and understanding, she doesn't feel that she did anything that bad, and can't understand why anyone else would thinks she did either. This is why she thought we could be friends, as far as I can tell.

I don't know what would make someone like that. It's as if it makes them feel somehow powerful, progressive or some other nonsense, but the reality is that it's actually quite sad. They can continuously be involved in something hurtful yet show no remorse or empathy. It's disturbing,and definitely not something to be proud of.

OK. I've not noticed that dynamic here, and can't speak about what you may or may not have encountered in your own private life. I know only my only experience, and my PhD is not in infidelity so I claim no expertise beyond my own experience and direct observation, and what I've read on these boards. We live in different countries, so are unlikely to know the same people, hence such different views. Fair enough.

October 21, 2016

Actually, they're quite common.

I say this based on all the experiences I've ever had with serial unapologetic other women. They are all basically of the same mind set,though they will deny that with every fiber of their being.

Each of them had serious self esteem issues, some sort of personality flaw or was sorely lacking in the empathy department.

Of course, they see it differently, but their own words show the reality of the situation. I think this is where much of the difference between an ow or om who has an A and it's just a "one off" type of thing, and they feel bad and would never do it again and a serial ow/om. They have the ability to empathize, and don't want to play a role in hurting someone else. A serial ow/om doesn't have that capacity.

A serial ow/om simply lacks that ability to either empathize or view what they are doing as hurtful. However, they are excellent at rationalizing what they do, if only to themselves. This is where the ow in my situation seems to be. Since she is not capable of empathy and understanding, she doesn't feel that she did anything that bad, and can't understand why anyone else would thinks she did either. This is why she thought we could be friends, as far as I can tell.

I don't know what would make someone like that. It's as if it makes them feel somehow powerful, progressive or some other nonsense, but the reality is that it's actually quite sad. They can continuously be involved in something hurtful yet show no remorse or empathy. It's disturbing,and definitely not something to be proud of.

My OM had a serious girlfriend at the time...she knew he was cheater & continued to stay with him. Maybe bc i was in a terrible marriage at the time & using my A as an exit A, I really didn't feel sorry for the gf. They weren't married, she kept hearing about the things he was doing & she chose to stay. I just couldn't feel sorry for her...maybe that sounds wrong but after so many times of someone doing the same thing over & over again to you & you choose to stay, well IMO, they're choosing that, it's no longer just "happening"...in cases like that even if it's a wife/husband...the problem isn't the other people, it's strictly the WS.

So I agree on a normal level what you're saying but if it's a serial cheater, that that person is just master manipulator that is the problem...not their AP

October 21, 2016

My OM had a serious girlfriend at the time...she knew he was cheater & continued to stay with him. Maybe bc i was in a terrible marriage at the time & using my A as an exit A, I really didn't feel sorry for the gf. They weren't married, she kept hearing about the things he was doing & she chose to stay. I just couldn't feel sorry for her...maybe that sounds wrong but after so many times of someone doing the same thing over & over again to you & you choose to stay, well IMO, they're choosing that, it's no longer just "happening"...in cases like that even if it's a wife/husband...the problem isn't the other people, it's strictly the WS.

So I agree on a normal level what you're saying but if it's a serial cheater, that that person is just master manipulator that is the problem...not their AP

Fair enough, and I think I can understand where you are coming from. At some point, people need to learn to stand up for themselves and not allow such crappy treatment.

but the question really wasn't who is the problem, it was why an ow would ever think that the bs would want to be their friend. To me, that shows a lack of understanding at a very fundamental level.

October 21, 2016

OK. I've not noticed that dynamic here, and can't speak about what you may or may not have encountered in your own private life. I know only my only experience, and my PhD is not in infidelity so I claim no expertise beyond my own experience and direct observation, and what I've read on these boards. We live in different countries, so are unlikely to know the same people, hence such different views. Fair enough.

I don't think this has anything to do with what country you ( general you) live in, that's just an excuse. Lack of empathy and having deep seated personal issues has noting to do with culture.

Edited October 21, 2016 by wmacbride

October 21, 2016

I don't think this has anything to do with what country you live in, that's just an excuse. Lack of empathy and having deep seated personal issues has noting to do with culture.

I think that the OW who wants to be friends shows a complete lack of emotional intelligence.

Some people may be able to excel at maths or science but when it comes to understanding the nuances of social behavior, emotions, and emotional understanding they just have no clue...

Some of these people that think this is OK are just simply emotionally inept.

October 22, 2016

I don't think this has anything to do with what country you ( general you) live in, that's just an excuse. Lack of empathy and having deep seated personal issues has noting to do with culture.

My point wasn't about "culture/s" but about geographical distance. We know very different people. I don't know the people, or the type of people, you described in that post I had quoted (to which you responded with this quote). My comments were based on the people I know, my own experience, and what I've seen on these boards - all of which seems light years away from what you describe as "fairly common". It's not "fairly common" to me, hence my comment.

October 22, 2016

Fair enough, and I think I can understand where you are coming from. At some point, people need to learn to stand up for themselves and not allow such crappy treatment.

but the question really wasn't who is the problem, it was why an ow would ever think that the bs would want to be their friend. To me, that shows a lack of understanding at a very fundamental level.

Agreed a 100%...honestly I never had hostility towards exow but it blew my mind when I received her text asking to go for drinks.,.she was lacking something alright!

October 22, 2016

My point wasn't about "culture/s" but about geographical distance. We know very different people. I don't know the people, or the type of people, you described in that post I had quoted (to which you responded with this quote). My comments were based on the people I know, my own experience, and what I've seen on these boards - all of which seems light years away from what you describe as "fairly common". It's not "fairly common" to me, hence my comment.

That says something about the people you choose to surround yourself with. People have a tendency to gather people around them who think and feel like they do.

I don't want to threadjack, so I'll leave it at that.

Edited October 22, 2016 by wmacbride

October 22, 2016

Any OW/OM who wants to be friends with the BS is coo-coo. (and for the record, the opposite is true too)

There is nothing good that can come out of that besides a big head trip and drama.

October 23, 2016

That says something about the people you choose to surround yourself with. People have a tendency to gather people around them who think and feel like they do.

I don't want to threadjack, so I'll leave it at that.

OK, so you're saying you know many people (OW) who are unable to empathise, while I have said I know none. You're saying that this means you surround yourself with people unable to empathise, because you have a tendency to surround yourself with people like yourself, i.e., you're unable to empathise? While I surround myself with people who are able to empathise, because I am able to empathise? OK, if that's how you see yourself. I'd have cut you a little more slack than that, but I don't know you and will take your word for it. Sorry about that.

I do choose to surround myself with empathetic people, it's true. As an activist I find empathy a bottom line in who I choose to associate with.

October 23, 2016

The only time this made sense to me, was when my mother found out that her fiance had been cheating with at least six other women. None of them knew about the others, until mum found out and contacted them. They all got together, and were supposed to exact some sort of revenge on him - I never got to hear what was planned, but one woman backed out at the last minute.

Last mum heard, that lady - a married woman, who was having an affair with him - had left her husband and child, to be with him. I never understood the effect he had on women. I wasn't impressed, the first time I met him, but I was six.

October 23, 2016

OK, so you're saying you know many people (OW) who are unable to empathise, while I have said I know none. You're saying that this means you surround yourself with people unable to empathise, because you have a tendency to surround yourself with people like yourself, i.e., you're unable to empathise? While I surround myself with people who are able to empathise, because I am able to empathise? OK, if that's how you see yourself. I'd have cut you a little more slack than that, but I don't know you and will take your word for it. Sorry about that.

I do choose to surround myself with empathetic people, it's true. As an activist I find empathy a bottom line in who I choose to associate with.

this is a very odd assumption.

In the course of one's daily activities, they tend to come across and interact with all sorts of people. Hence they say they know them.

This does not mean they choose to surround themselves with them, nor does it mean they are friends.

I've had to work and interact, both in the real and online world, with many people who I would never choose to associate myself with, especially ones who are pompous, arrogant and have an incredibly shallow understanding of themselves. That's life.

October 23, 2016

The only time this made sense to me, was when my mother found out that her fiance had been cheating with at least six other women. None of them knew about the others, until mum found out and contacted them. They all got together, and were supposed to exact some sort of revenge on him - I never got to hear what was planned, but one woman backed out at the last minute.

Last mum heard, that lady - a married woman, who was having an affair with him - had left her husband and child, to be with him. I never understood the effect he had on women. I wasn't impressed, the first time I met him, but I was six.

It sounds like they united in a common cause. It's a really unusual situation.

They guy sounds like a pretty rotten person.

October 24, 2016

OK, so you're saying you know many people (OW) who are unable to empathise, while I have said I know none. You're saying that this means you surround yourself with people unable to empathise, because you have a tendency to surround yourself with people like yourself, i.e., you're unable to empathise? While I surround myself with people who are able to empathise, because I am able to empathise? OK, if that's how you see yourself. I'd have cut you a little more slack than that, but I don't know you and will take your word for it. Sorry about that.

I do choose to surround myself with empathetic people, it's true. As an activist I find empathy a bottom line in who I choose to associate with.

Talk about twisting a persons comments to fit your own agenda...

Activist in what exactly?

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Friends? I think not. [affair partner wanting to be friends with betrayed?]

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