So I had a date.

[Chris2016]

At least you got a date!

 

I met a lady IRL at a party. Had a good rapport, so I thought. When we departed, I offered a handshake. She gave a vibe that a hug was better, and so we hugged. Great! I passed the creep factor.

 

(It made my night because I had the confidence to chat up a lady and ask for her number, which I hadn't done in ages.)

 

A couple of days later, I texted her, asking if she'd like to meet up. She pretty much side tracked my question. Also, her responses were not enthusiastic. I got the hint.

 

She hasn't reached out to me since. So, I knew what my gut was telling me. I've deleted her number from my phone.

 

It sucks! That two people who seem to connect can't take it further. That I was just written off, couldn't even get a first date.

 

And so, I don't want to chat up and ask a lady for her number again. What's going to change next time? What's going to be different? It's seems to always be like this. But you know what? I think I'm ready try again.

 

Here's my post about that experience:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/592382-small-victory-now-what

[elaine567]

I cannot help how I come across, people have accused me of being negative for years but finally they have just conceded that's how I am. I try to be like everyone else and I am still accused of being negative so there is no winning.

You seem to have identified that you come across as "negative", so no woman who meets the criteria listed below is going to be interested in that, are they?

: well spoken and ability to actually understand and speak English

: general knowledge and a semblance of word knowledge

: ambition

: class.

: must take good care of themselves.

 

She is not going to want to join some pity party or bring herself down by interacting long term with someone who sees the "bad" side of everything.

Yes, "fun" is a nebulous concept, but fun for most is a positive experience, it is not about wallowing in the negative aspects of life.

 

You will never attract anyone, unless you are proactive in trying to change that. I am not suggesting you are going to suddenly have to develop the wit and sparkle of a stand up comedian, but you need to start putting some sort of filter on what you say and ask yourself "Is that negative?" and if it is, do not say it or think of something more positive to say instead.

 

It so all very well saying I am who I am, but when who you are is making you miserable then most would make an effort to reinvent themselves.

Yes, you may get away with being the guy who is always "realistic", ie pessimistic at work or amongst your friends, as you occupy a niche and people tend to like variety. The overly negative, "arrogant", shy guy in the friend circle gets cancelled out by his overly positive, friendly, extrovert pal, so all is in balance.

BUT here you need to get out of that negative rut and start being a well rounded person in your own right.

Look at your posture and your body language too. Someone who looks or sounds like they have the world on their shoulders is not going to be able to convince anyone that they are a happy, contented friendly person, no matter how many jokes or witty stories they can rattle off.

 

No-one stable and happy is drawn to negativity, it is draining and it makes people feel bad.

Stop it.

BTW I find politics and world affairs although interesting on one level, can be very depressing and it tends to encourage cynicism and a sense of hopelessness.

Getting engrossed in sad, frustrating, anger inducing stuff that few can do anything about, will bring you down, no doubt about that, perhaps try to lighten up your reading material in an effort to be more positive.

[Chris2016]

OP, topics okay to discuss on a date:

F.O.R.D.

Family

Occupation

Recreation - What do you like to do for fun?

Dreams - Where do you see yourself 5 or 10 years from now?

 

Topics to avoid:

R.A.P.E.

Religion

Abortion

Politics - Since this is something you like. Maybe avoid it on a first date?

Economics

[joseb]

BTW I find politics and world affairs although interesting on one level, can be very depressing and it tends to encourage cynicism and a sense of hopelessness.

Getting engrossed in sad, frustrating, anger inducing stuff that few can do anything about, will bring you down, no doubt about that, perhaps try to lighten up your reading material in an effort to be more positive.[/i]

 

Yeah i was thinking this before.

On the one hand, I'm a citizen of the planet and am very interested in other countries and people. But more and more I find myself avoiding the news as it's just such an overly negative depressing way to view the world.

[ZA Dater]

You seem to have identified that you come across as "negative", so no woman who meets the criteria listed below is going to be interested in that, are they?

: well spoken and ability to actually understand and speak English

: general knowledge and a semblance of word knowledge

: ambition

: class.

: must take good care of themselves.

 

She is not going to want to join some pity party or bring herself down by interacting long term with someone who sees the "bad" side of everything.

Yes, "fun" is a nebulous concept, but fun for most is a positive experience, it is not about wallowing in the negative aspects of life.

 

You will never attract anyone, unless you are proactive in trying to change that. I am not suggesting you are going to suddenly have to develop the wit and sparkle of a stand up comedian, but you need to start putting some sort of filter on what you say and ask yourself "Is that negative?" and if it is, do not say it or think of something more positive to say instead.

 

It so all very well saying I am who I am, but when who you are is making you miserable then most would make an effort to reinvent themselves.

Yes, you may get away with being the guy who is always "realistic", ie pessimistic at work or amongst your friends, as you occupy a niche and people tend to like variety. The overly negative, "arrogant", shy guy in the friend circle gets cancelled out by his overly positive, friendly, extrovert pal, so all is in balance.

BUT here you need to get out of that negative rut and start being a well rounded person in your own right.

Look at your posture and your body language too. Someone who looks or sounds like they have the world on their shoulders is not going to be able to convince anyone that they are a happy, contented friendly person, no matter how many jokes or witty stories they can rattle off.

 

No-one stable and happy is drawn to negativity, it is draining and it makes people feel bad.

Stop it.

 

BTW I find politics and world affairs although interesting on one level, can be very depressing and it tends to encourage cynicism and a sense of hopelessness.

Getting engrossed in sad, frustrating, anger inducing stuff that few can do anything about, will bring you down, no doubt about that, perhaps try to lighten up your reading material in an effort to be more positive.

 

1: I have tried that for ages, I wasn't negative I don't think on this date at all, she laughed and smiled so it could not have been that bad. For various reasons I am jaded and its not just dating which had made me so. I think I presented well on this date I just don't know what she was looking for. I did hear from her but very curt.

 

2: Without sounding arrogant I wouldn't know how to reinvent myself. In desperation a few years ago I tried to be someone I am not, I didn't have anymore success doing that than I do now being myself.

 

I think given a few more years the desire to actually date at all will probably fade, I wont lie the interest isn't as high as it was simply because the results are so poor I have little incentive to actually continue, as the years go by the results don't really change and the chance of finding a positive result seems to drop.

 

Perhaps the best companion for me is simply myself.

[ZA Dater]

Yeah i was thinking this before.

On the one hand, I'm a citizen of the planet and am very interested in other countries and people. But more and more I find myself avoiding the news as it's just such an overly negative depressing way to view the world.

 

I guess I am just different. I don't find news negative its simply the reality f what is going on around the world.

 

Worse for me is someone totally apathetic but I also think the issue with me may be that I simply don't really connect with people at all so I need some shared interest to connect to them with.

 

Its like K, she writes, she works with me and for her its nothing but for me its more female attention than I have ever had before. Would she kiss me, definitely not. I don't form emotional attachment to people that easily.

 

Last night I thought about this statuesque model who tried to help me, I wondered if I would actually have a chance with her, deluded yes but I did wonder nonetheless.

 

All I simply want is just once, someone to like me and give me genuine attention, I think if I can get everything to line up just once I could quite easily walk away and never wonder again.

[elaine567]

Being jaded is never an attractive quality.

Why You Should Stop Being Jaded

 

Being jaded is depressing and unhealthy. It just doesn’t feel good. There is a certain heaviness and resignation to people who are feeling discouraged and defeated. It ages them. Want to look and feel younger? Believe in love and in your dreams.

 

 

If something in your life didn’t turn out the way you wish it had, learn everything you can from it and then move on. This is the only way that you can benefit from the experience. Being jaded does not serve you. It is merely holding on to old pain as a way of protecting yourself. This is nowhere near as awesome as moving on and having love in your life again.

 

 

 

Being jaded will rob you of your dreams and your joy. Own your dreams. Find a way to believe in them again. Having a guarded, cynical attitude will not get you any closer to what you want.

 

 

Everyone needs to have dreams. Pretending that you don’t need love, that you don’t care, that the only thing that matters is the avoidance of pain is playing small.

 

Even worse than not reaching for your dreams is burying them alive and pretending that they don’t exist, forgetting that you ever had them because you were hurt once. Remember your dreams. Find them, get in touch with them again. They will bring love back into your heart and joy back into your life.

 

[ZA Dater]

OP, topics okay to discuss on a date:

F.O.R.D.

Family

Occupation

Recreation - What do you like to do for fun?

Dreams - Where do you see yourself 5 or 10 years from now?

 

Topics to avoid:

R.A.P.E.

Religion

Abortion

Politics - Since this is something you like. Maybe avoid it on a first date?

Economics

 

I tend to stick to occupation, recreation and world affairs on dates. Mixed in with selling myself to an extent despite the fact I hate doing so I have learnt you need to try and impress people sufficiently.

[Wade Lamare]

Politics has been mentioned several times, so that and current affairs is obviously something you have an interest in or passion for.

 

Bearing in mind the failure rate you have been experiencing with OLD and the general consensus amongst most posters that an interest makes someone interesting, are you active within the political environment locally?

 

I don't know what the main political parties are over there but within the US you have GOP and DNC.

 

In the UK you have the Conservative Party, the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats.

 

Have you thought about becoming active within the local branch of the party to which you lean politically?

 

You might shake your head and ask "how the heck am I going to meet a girl there?" However any girls you meet there are likely to de facto be interested in politics and possibly other stuff you are interested in.

 

It can be very surprising, many years ago in my early/mid 20's I became very active within my local archaeological group, I developed a certain amount of knowledge regarding medieval and post-medieval pottery.

 

Now bearing in mind that this was dry old dusty archaeology, I wasn't an NBA player, a football star or a rock star, I was gobsmacked to find out that, relatively speaking, I was in demand with the ladies.

 

Looking back with the advantage of age and experience I think it wasn't what I was interested and knowledgeable in that was attractive, it's that I was interested and knowledgeable about something.

[ZA Dater]

Politics has been mentioned several times, so that and current affairs is obviously something you have an interest in or passion for.

 

Bearing in mind the failure rate you have been experiencing with OLD and the general consensus amongst most posters that an interest makes someone interesting, are you active within the political environment locally?

 

I don't know what the main political parties are over there but within the US you have GOP and DNC.

 

In the UK you have the Conservative Party, the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats.

 

Have you thought about becoming active within the local branch of the party to which you lean politically?

 

You might shake your head and ask "how the heck am I going to meet a girl there?" However any girls you meet there are likely to de facto be interested in politics and possibly other stuff you are interested in.

 

It can be very surprising, many years ago in my early/mid 20's I became very active within my local archaeological group, I developed a certain amount of knowledge regarding medieval and post-medieval pottery.

 

Now bearing in mind that this was dry old dusty archaeology, I wasn't an NBA player, a football star or a rock star, I was gobsmacked to find out that, relatively speaking, I was in demand with the ladies.

 

Looking back with the advantage of age and experience I think it wasn't what I was interested and knowledgeable in that was attractive, it's that I was interested and knowledgeable about something.

 

Local SA politics makes a GOP convention seem like a tea party. Appreciate the suggestion though.

[ZA Dater]

Being jaded is never an attractive quality.

Why You Should Stop Being Jaded

[/url]

 

Cant really argue with any of that! Its all truth.

 

For example the only dates I can really get now are ones I need to actually pay for. Not really into that.

 

I'd like the affection but the idea of paying for it doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

I see someone who looks attractive and most guys would go "wow she is nice, let me try" I go "what's the point she wont like me anyway" and yes I can say its negative but if you were in my position its also true.

[ZA Dater]

Politics has been mentioned several times, so that and current affairs is obviously something you have an interest in or passion for.

 

Bearing in mind the failure rate you have been experiencing with OLD and the general consensus amongst most posters that an interest makes someone interesting, are you active within the political environment locally?

 

I don't know what the main political parties are over there but within the US you have GOP and DNC.

 

In the UK you have the Conservative Party, the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats.

 

Have you thought about becoming active within the local branch of the party to which you lean politically?

 

You might shake your head and ask "how the heck am I going to meet a girl there?" However any girls you meet there are likely to de facto be interested in politics and possibly other stuff you are interested in.

 

It can be very surprising, many years ago in my early/mid 20's I became very active within my local archaeological group, I developed a certain amount of knowledge regarding medieval and post-medieval pottery.

 

Now bearing in mind that this was dry old dusty archaeology, I wasn't an NBA player, a football star or a rock star, I was gobsmacked to find out that, relatively speaking, I was in demand with the ladies.

 

Looking back with the advantage of age and experience I think it wasn't what I was interested and knowledgeable in that was attractive, it's that I was interested and knowledgeable about something.

 

I really wish in my case this applied but it never does, perhaps the negative qualities render it irrelevant. I have never really been in demand ever, probably for a variety of reasons, shy, awkward, deep voice, manner of speaking and language used. Sure in high school I got attention, regret not having actually just gone with some of the propositions I got back then.

 

Probably the things I am good at maybe don't count as much as I hoped they would and that's the mistake I made, the giving kind part of me is irrelevant because it seems most ladies are quite happy with a selfish inconsiderate guy.

[elaine567]

Cant really argue with any of that! Its all truth.

 

For example the only dates I can really get now are ones I need to actually pay for. Not really into that.

Did you pay for this date?

I thought she was on OKcupid

[ZA Dater]

Did you pay for this date?

I thought she was on OKcupid

 

This one was from OkCupid.

[SammySammy]

You seem to have identified that you come across as "negative", so no woman who meets the criteria listed below is going to be interested in that, are they?

: well spoken and ability to actually understand and speak English

: general knowledge and a semblance of word knowledge

: ambition

: class.

: must take good care of themselves.

 

She is not going to want to join some pity party or bring herself down by interacting long term with someone who sees the "bad" side of everything.

Yes, "fun" is a nebulous concept, but fun for most is a positive experience, it is not about wallowing in the negative aspects of life.

 

You will never attract anyone, unless you are proactive in trying to change that. I am not suggesting you are going to suddenly have to develop the wit and sparkle of a stand up comedian, but you need to start putting some sort of filter on what you say and ask yourself "Is that negative?" and if it is, do not say it or think of something more positive to say instead.

 

It so all very well saying I am who I am, but when who you are is making you miserable then most would make an effort to reinvent themselves.

Yes, you may get away with being the guy who is always "realistic", ie pessimistic at work or amongst your friends, as you occupy a niche and people tend to like variety. The overly negative, "arrogant", shy guy in the friend circle gets cancelled out by his overly positive, friendly, extrovert pal, so all is in balance.

BUT here you need to get out of that negative rut and start being a well rounded person in your own right.

Look at your posture and your body language too. Someone who looks or sounds like they have the world on their shoulders is not going to be able to convince anyone that they are a happy, contented friendly person, no matter how many jokes or witty stories they can rattle off.

 

No-one stable and happy is drawn to negativity, it is draining and it makes people feel bad.

Stop it.

BTW I find politics and world affairs although interesting on one level, can be very depressing and it tends to encourage cynicism and a sense of hopelessness.

Getting engrossed in sad, frustrating, anger inducing stuff that few can do anything about, will bring you down, no doubt about that, perhaps try to lighten up your reading material in an effort to be more positive.

 

This is so true.

 

Nobody wants to walk under Eeyore's cloud, but people love Tigger. And Pooh, though he's neither overly sad or overly excited.

 

[elaine567]

This one was from OkCupid.

Ok so the ONLY only dates you can get, are NOT paying ones are they?

[normal person]

When is it about them making me feel good?

 

When they want to be with you badly enough to make you feel good.

 

Or is this just a one way street. Basically they rock up and I must do those things and they can put in zero effort whatsoever to reciprocate. Interesting.

 

Women, or people in general, don't owe you anything. They're not obligated to put in effort or reciprocate things if they don't feel the need. Like many guys who have come on here, you echo the common sentiment: "Men have to climb mountains to impress women and women don't have to do anything."

 

Wrong. The person who likes the other person more, regardless of gender, has to do the "impressing." Whoever cares or needs the other person less has more leverage -- it's not a conscious, malicious thing people intentionally do, it's just the way the world works within the context of supply and demand and what you bring to the table.

 

Let's compare dating to a job interview.

 

Scenario 1: Before you go in to meet the interviewer for your dream job, which you're incredibly nervous about, you wait in the lobby with dozens of either equally nervous, accomplished, and aspirational applicants. When it's your time, you go in and they start asking you what you can do for the company. Then, you say something like you said above: "Why is this is a one way street? What are you doing to do for me? When is this going to be about making me feel good?"

 

They would laugh you out of the office because there are dozens of other applicants ready and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job. Those other guys in the lobby want the job more than the company wants them, so they realize they're not in any position to make demands, they'll be taking demands. They'll be outbidding you with lower salaries and more work.

 

You don't have any leverage. You want their job, so they don't have to do anything. Just like if you want that girl's time and attention more than she wants yours, she doesn't have to do anything. The solution is to make her want your time and attention more than you want hers, then the tables are flipped. That's when it's about making you feel good.

 

Scenario 2: You're a highly touted recent graduate, top of the class, everyone predicts big things from you. You're fielding offers from several different companies. They bring you in not for an interview, but for a talk. They're telling you how much they're willing to pay you, the benefits, etc. You're leaning back in the chair putting your feet up on their desk. You have the leverage. They want you. You can even say "well, company X offered to pay me $10K more than that, so I'm still considering them my first option... so what are you doing to do for me?"

 

The point being, women will start making you "feel good" when they desire you enough. When they're concerned about the prospect of being without you. When you demonstrate the qualities they want. Not when it's "fair" or "nice" because that just isn't how people operate. If you want them to care, give them something to care about. Give them a reason to like you. Why do you like them? Why are you so concerned with making them like you? Answers those questions, take the answers and apply them to yourself in such a fashion that people would give those answers in regards to you.

 

I tend to stick to occupation, recreation and world affairs on dates. Mixed in with selling myself to an extent despite the fact I hate doing so I have learnt you need to try and impress people sufficiently.

 

This is probably fine, provided it's not just factual information exchange. It's imperative to talk about the emotional aspects of them and why they're meaningful and important.

 

And "selling yourself" can come off as a bit desperate; it's insecurity. Make sure you do it carefully. Consider the job interview example and when someone would feel the need to sell themselves and when they wouldn't have to. Really, the reason you'd have to do it is because no one else was buying, and/or there was a competing, possibly better product out there. Be very careful with "selling."

 

Best of luck.

[AMJ]

 

For what its worth I got a curt reply to a question I asked so safe to say I have got the hint from her. A pity but like everyone here says I am such a terrible person who would ever possibly want to spend a minute in my company.

 

 

Wait a minute, what now? She replied to you??? What did she say!

[Miss Spider]

Women like confidence and a man who views her a positive addition to his life, not like the last drink of water in the Gobi that he doesn't believe he'll be getting.. No dating tips or tricks are going to cover that level of desperation and cynicism. I think it would help you to work on yourself and develop genuine confidence. Work on your mindset. Don't give up!!

Edited October 20, 2016 by Cookiesandough

[basil67]

I was being sarcastic.

 

The truth is my few friends have pretty much washed their hands of trying to help me with this, which I guess is telling on its own. What is suggested I simply cannot adapt to. People who try to relate cant, when they are gorgeous and can date any guy they like. I am never going to be that guy who can pick up someone random at a coffee shop or a book shop, I simply don't have the confidence for that and I am too shy. What I would like just once perhaps is for some to actually take me a dummy date, just maybe show me how nice it can be and provide some meaningful critique but the thing about this is I'll just realise there is nothing in the dating sense, positive about me at all.

 

As someone said not everyone is good at this and that I agree with. Can people improve, sure. Is it enough to find success, that depends the base from which one is working.

 

No, it wasn't sarcasm. Sarcasm is saying the opposite of what you believe to be true and I can't imagine that you see yourself as being surrounded by supportive people. Not to mention that it sounded exactly like the kind of self pity you're always writing.

 

And of course you're not going to be the guy who can pick up a random woman at a coffee shop or bookstore. MOST guys aren't that guy. I still shake my head in wonder about the fact that guys even attempt this. Don't do the self pity thing about stuff which is completely normal.

[thecrucible]

When is it about them making me feel good? Or is this just a one way street. Basically they rock up and I must do those things and they can put in zero effort whatsoever to reciprocate. Interesting.

 

I didn't say it doesn't work both ways. I mean if someone isn't showing equal interest in you, it's not something you should overlook.

 

For what its worth I got a curt reply to a question I asked so safe to say I have got the hint from her.

 

I don't think that was really a curt reply. She just said she enjoyed spending time with you. You could have responded and asked to meet up again. I think you are reading too much into texts and assuming the worst. I mean if a guy said he enjoyed a date with me but didn't go on to asking me out for another one, I'd assume he only saw me as a friend or was giving me the blow off.

 

With this last date I thought, ok lets try this, objectively it may work, well subjectively it didn't, perhaps I don't have the ability to goof around and manipulate people, woe is me for being honest and forthright.

 

It's not actually manipulation unless you observe that most of human interaction is manipulation in some form anyway, if you can see what I'm getting at? I mean dating is supposed to be fun and if it isn't then you're not really present with the person and not right for each other.

[Miss Spider]

Omg. I completely forgot that he didn't even ask her out again. You're supposed say you had a good time and ask if she'd like to do it again. It's been like a week and 12 pages of self loathing and this poor girl doesn't even know if you like her or not. Why are using an app to communicate. If a woman is into you she should be okay to communicate with her actual number I think unless she's super paranoid

Edited October 20, 2016 by Cookiesandough

[ZA Dater]

When they want to be with you badly enough to make you feel good.

 

 

 

Women, or people in general, don't owe you anything. They're not obligated to put in effort or reciprocate things if they don't feel the need. Like many guys who have come on here, you echo the common sentiment: "Men have to climb mountains to impress women and women don't have to do anything."

 

Wrong. The person who likes the other person more, regardless of gender, has to do the "impressing." Whoever cares or needs the other person less has more leverage -- it's not a conscious, malicious thing people intentionally do, it's just the way the world works within the context of supply and demand and what you bring to the table.

 

Let's compare dating to a job interview.

 

Scenario 1: Before you go in to meet the interviewer for your dream job, which you're incredibly nervous about, you wait in the lobby with dozens of either equally nervous, accomplished, and aspirational applicants. When it's your time, you go in and they start asking you what you can do for the company. Then, you say something like you said above: "Why is this is a one way street? What are you doing to do for me? When is this going to be about making me feel good?"

 

They would laugh you out of the office because there are dozens of other applicants ready and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job. Those other guys in the lobby want the job more than the company wants them, so they realize they're not in any position to make demands, they'll be taking demands. They'll be outbidding you with lower salaries and more work.

 

You don't have any leverage. You want their job, so they don't have to do anything. Just like if you want that girl's time and attention more than she wants yours, she doesn't have to do anything. The solution is to make her want your time and attention more than you want hers, then the tables are flipped. That's when it's about making you feel good.

 

Scenario 2: You're a highly touted recent graduate, top of the class, everyone predicts big things from you. You're fielding offers from several different companies. They bring you in not for an interview, but for a talk. They're telling you how much they're willing to pay you, the benefits, etc. You're leaning back in the chair putting your feet up on their desk. You have the leverage. They want you. You can even say "well, company X offered to pay me $10K more than that, so I'm still considering them my first option... so what are you doing to do for me?"

 

The point being, women will start making you "feel good" when they desire you enough. When they're concerned about the prospect of being without you. When you demonstrate the qualities they want. Not when it's "fair" or "nice" because that just isn't how people operate. If you want them to care, give them something to care about. Give them a reason to like you. Why do you like them? Why are you so concerned with making them like you? Answers those questions, take the answers and apply them to yourself in such a fashion that people would give those answers in regards to you.

 

 

 

This is probably fine, provided it's not just factual information exchange. It's imperative to talk about the emotional aspects of them and why they're meaningful and important.

 

And "selling yourself" can come off as a bit desperate; it's insecurity. Make sure you do it carefully. Consider the job interview example and when someone would feel the need to sell themselves and when they wouldn't have to. Really, the reason you'd have to do it is because no one else was buying, and/or there was a competing, possibly better product out there. Be very careful with "selling."

 

Best of luck.

 

Well here is what I don't understand. You must not sell yourself but you must make the person want you as much as you want them? Seems pretty much impossible to me to achieve that without some degree of selling.

 

A lot of the above post is quite sobering, guess nobody has actually really wanted me based on that, cant say its a surprising revelation though.

 

If I apply those questions to me, the honest answer is nothing, there is nothing particularly enduring about me at all. Realistically I don't think I will ever be in the position to have leverage andI guess ladies always have the leverage unless you are find one who is totally superficial.

 

Also reading the above, I guess its clear I don't actually demonstrate any of the qualities they actually want.

 

In a manner of speaking the above post really summarises my lack of success very well.

[ZA Dater]

Omg. I completely forgot that he didn't even ask her out again. You're supposed say you had a good time and ask if she'd like to do it again. It's been like a week and 12 pages of self loathing and this poor girl doesn't even know if you like her or not. Why are using an app to communicate. If a woman is into you she should be okay to communicate with her actual number I think unless she's super paranoid

 

I did. I asked her after I hugged her goodbye and I asked her the next day. I then tried to get a conversation going and she wasn't interested. Its done, over and done.

[ZA Dater]

Ok so the ONLY only dates you can get, are NOT paying ones are they?

 

If you saw what my choices are on OKcupid you would understand why seeking arrangement had far more allure.