So I had a date.

[ZA Dater]

So, is becoming more relaxed and personable the next step in your development?

 

Not really no. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this date and I wouldn't do anything substantially different. I am who I am personality wise. I will say this after each experience like this the appeal of dating as a concept fades just s little more to the point where objectively i don't see much point to it at all when the chances of

 

Me finding someone I like are so skim

The chances of them liking me are zero.

[ZA Dater]

I guess it may depend on whether she likes compliments or not, some people hate compliments or get embarrassed by them or even get annoyed by them.

I can take a compliment honestly expressed but "You really are special and you left me comprehensively wowed! " would be too much for me after one date, but where I live people in general are not too effusive and are more likely to give you a "put down" in the form of a witty joke (ie banter), than a serious compliment.

 

What nationality is she? I know she has travelled a bit but her native culture may give a clue as to how to pitch it.

 

South African too. Everything in dating seems to be routed in the ability of the guy to figure out somehow what to say. Some can do it, others can't. Feeling very down today so I doubt I'll contact her. Friend of mine told me to let it go. Easy for him to say he can get dates easily and does.

[ZA Dater]

.

ZA if you don't want to text her, don't. But if it's true that a good date like this only happens once every lunar eclipse, maybe you don't want to let good opportunities slip on by. But you need to disconnect a bit from the outcome. You can't let yourself get shattered if she never replies or says something you don't want to hear. Rejection is easier to take when you approach it with a perspective of nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

So, that's my advice. Simple and genuine compliments are best.

 

To give you an idea I generally only have one nice date like this every 3-4 years. Hence the massive disappointment when they inevitably result in a poor outcome.

 

FB reminded me I met someone else I liked two years ago, I look at this, her then and now and me then and now. She has progressed in leaps and bounds, has a bf is super happy and I well, I am just the same basically barring a new hair style and new wardrobe of clothes.

 

Maybe the issue is my own creation, maybe wanting the absolute best I can is the issue which has me chasing the near impossible and facing continual disappointment. The problem is average doesn't interest me either, my whole outlook isn't configured like that. I cant really sit and talk about mundane things all the time, with this last one I actually had my mind stretched and challenged which is probably why I enjoyed the date so much.

 

I really am stuck in indecision valley, I know if I contact her again I am going to feel even more a loser at what will come back but if I don't I am going to wonder what if. Its trying to decide which of those two I prefer!

 

I guess I can look at it another way. Why would a 38yo who is way above average in looks actually want someone like me with zero experience at all. In short they wouldn't. Perhaps she just met me because she had nothing better to do. Perhaps she wanted more. Everything is perhaps, I just never seem to make any sort of improvement at all which is infuriating.

[AMJ]

To give you an idea I generally only have one nice date like this every 3-4 years. Hence the massive disappointment when they inevitably result in a poor outcome.

 

FB reminded me I met someone else I liked two years ago, I look at this, her then and now and me then and now. She has progressed in leaps and bounds, has a bf is super happy and I well, I am just the same basically barring a new hair style and new wardrobe of clothes.

 

I feel like this sometimes too. Especially on my birthday Maybe your life hasn't progressed with a relationship, but that doesn't mean you aren't progressing in other ways, or had experiences the last few years that weren't worthwhile.

 

Anyway life can change really fast when you want it to. One of my friends broke up with a jerk BF in May and within the next year she was engaged and pregnant with her now husband, that was 5 years ago and they have a second child and a house. Their relationship moved really fast but they are a good fit for each other and very happy.

 

Maybe the issue is my own creation, maybe wanting the absolute best I can is the issue which has me chasing the near impossible and facing continual disappointment. The problem is average doesn't interest me either, my whole outlook isn't configured like that. I cant really sit and talk about mundane things all the time, with this last one I actually had my mind stretched and challenged which is probably why I enjoyed the date so much.

Absolutely! This is a self-made problem- most problems are! If you're looking for perfection, you'll be looking forever because no one is perfect. And I know you are looking for your own version of perfect, but even still, we all have a balance sheet of positive and negative qualities. No one is going to be more than average to you if you don't give them a chance. It's only over time that an average person becomes something more special and valuable. I think the connection and relationship you create with an average person is what becomes extraordinary. The two people on their own are always going to be average.

 

I really am stuck in indecision valley, I know if I contact her again I am going to feel even more a loser at what will come back but if I don't I am going to wonder what if. Its trying to decide which of those two I prefer!

 

I guess I can look at it another way. Why would a 38yo who is way above average in looks actually want someone like me with zero experience at all. In short they wouldn't. Perhaps she just met me because she had nothing better to do. Perhaps she wanted more. Everything is perhaps, I just never seem to make any sort of improvement at all which is infuriating.

 

I don't think inexperience is necessarily a big problem. Lots of women would think you have a clean slate and no baggage- that's pretty rare. But if you do feel it's a negative quality, well, like I said we all have positive and negative qualities. I'm sure you have lots of positive qualities as well. We already know one of her faults is communication.

 

Personally I'd rather feel like a rejected loser than wonder what if, every single time, so that's always an easy decision for me. Sometimes it does take me awhile to work up courage to go after what I want, but I usually get there eventually.

But it's your call!

[ZA Dater]

I feel like this sometimes too. Especially on my birthday Maybe your life hasn't progressed with a relationship, but that doesn't mean you aren't progressing in other ways, or had experiences the last few years that weren't worthwhile.

 

Anyway life can change really fast when you want it to. One of my friends broke up with a jerk BF in May and within the next year she was engaged and pregnant with her now husband, that was 5 years ago and they have a second child and a house. Their relationship moved really fast but they are a good fit for each other and very happy.

 

 

Absolutely! This is a self-made problem- most problems are! If you're looking for perfection, you'll be looking forever because no one is perfect. And I know you are looking for your own version of perfect, but even still, we all have a balance sheet of positive and negative qualities. No one is going to be more than average to you if you don't give them a chance. It's only over time that an average person becomes something more special and valuable. I think the connection and relationship you create with an average person is what becomes extraordinary. The two people on their own are always going to be average.

 

 

 

I don't think inexperience is necessarily a big problem. Lots of women would think you have a clean slate and no baggage- that's pretty rare. But if you do feel it's a negative quality, well, like I said we all have positive and negative qualities. I'm sure you have lots of positive qualities as well. We already know one of her faults is communication.

 

Personally I'd rather feel like a rejected loser than wonder what if, every single time, so that's always an easy decision for me. Sometimes it does take me awhile to work up courage to go after what I want, but I usually get there eventually.

But it's your call!

 

The problem for me is I never really make meaningful improvements at dating. If I could so "ok that's better" or "well I saw her three times and I had my first kiss" then sure those are measurable but nothing I have done can be measured in anyway. Its all pretty much the same.

 

 

I am not really looking for perfection but I must be honest I do get somewhat, when people say "oh give them a chance", yet I am never afforded the same chance others expect me to give. The reality is I cant date someone I don't like and if the few I like don't like me then I either

: continue the cycle of disappointment

: move on and simply leave dating on the shelf like I myself have been left on the shelf.

 

 

If someone doesn't speak well, they generally aren't going to get any better at it. If someone doesn't carry themselves well I cant take them to a formal business dinner, if someone doesn't have any confidence I cant take them to any dinner either. If someone is easily intimidated I cant take them either. I need intellectual stimulation and if I don't get that, its irrelevant is she is a model it wont work for me at all.

 

 

Inexperience is a fundamentally negative quality because it makes you incapable of knowing when to touch, should you kiss, how to kiss, how to go there which is probably why I default into the only thing I know which is a conversational way and leaning towards the more formal. Nobody want to teach a 32yo those sort of things.

 

 

Every rejection just takes my confidence back even more, its very tough to get it back and because I am heavily logic driven I spend ages thinking: Why did it go wrong.

 

 

I really admire people who achieve some sort of dating success because for me it seems about as possible as me suddenly being able to fly. As the years go buy it just becomes harder and harder and the opportunities dry up.

[LD1990]

Inexperience is a fundamentally negative quality because it makes you incapable of knowing when to touch, should you kiss, how to kiss, how to go there which is probably why I default into the only thing I know which is a conversational way and leaning towards the more formal. Nobody want to teach a 32yo those sort of things.

 

You've gotten advice from people here. There are literally millions of books and videos aimed at helping men improve at dating. There are dating coaches. You have a near endless amount of resources available that could help you improve.

[AMJ]

The problem for me is I never really make meaningful improvements at dating. If I could so "ok that's better" or "well I saw her three times and I had my first kiss" then sure those are measurable but nothing I have done can be measured in anyway. Its all pretty much the same.

 

 

I am not really looking for perfection but I must be honest I do get somewhat, when people say "oh give them a chance", yet I am never afforded the same chance others expect me to give. The reality is I cant date someone I don't like and if the few I like don't like me then I either

: continue the cycle of disappointment

: move on and simply leave dating on the shelf like I myself have been left on the shelf.

 

 

If someone doesn't speak well, they generally aren't going to get any better at it. If someone doesn't carry themselves well I cant take them to a formal business dinner, if someone doesn't have any confidence I cant take them to any dinner either. If someone is easily intimidated I cant take them either. I need intellectual stimulation and if I don't get that, its irrelevant is she is a model it wont work for me at all.

 

 

Inexperience is a fundamentally negative quality because it makes you incapable of knowing when to touch, should you kiss, how to kiss, how to go there which is probably why I default into the only thing I know which is a conversational way and leaning towards the more formal. Nobody want to teach a 32yo those sort of things.

 

 

Every rejection just takes my confidence back even more, its very tough to get it back and because I am heavily logic driven I spend ages thinking: Why did it go wrong.

 

 

I really admire people who achieve some sort of dating success because for me it seems about as possible as me suddenly being able to fly. As the years go buy it just becomes harder and harder and the opportunities dry up.

 

You sort of view this all as zero-sum, that's one reason you're not successful. There's not much compromise or middle ground in your thinking. I'm not surprised you haven't found this ideal woman, because she does not exist.

You are looking for perfect, you need to recognize that. When you do, you'll understand why you need to bend your expectations.

 

Why do you idealize people in relationships? They haven't solved any mystery. Many of them are in unhappy relationships and settled because they don't want to be alone. It's much more rare to be single in your 30s and beyond than coupled up, single people are the ones to admire. I don't think there's anything magical about people who found a relationship. It's a choice they made. You could have a relationship- everyone can- if you really want one.

[ZA Dater]

You sort of view this all as zero-sum, that's one reason you're not successful. There's not much compromise or middle ground in your thinking. I'm not surprised you haven't found this ideal woman, because she does not exist.

You are looking for perfect, you need to recognize that. When you do, you'll understand why you need to bend your expectations.

 

Why do you idealize people in relationships? They haven't solved any mystery. Many of them are in unhappy relationships and settled because they don't want to be alone. It's much more rare to be single in your 30s and beyond than coupled up, single people are the ones to admire. I don't think there's anything magical about people who found a relationship. It's a choice they made. You could have a relationship- everyone can- if you really want one.

 

Why must I bend my expectations to something I do not want? The strange thing is they do exist, I have met people I like, a fair few but none are attainable for me unfortunately and none actually like me. Honestly, I'd rather meet these people, have a few nice minutes than sit with somebody for hours I know I wont ever like.

 

 

Both the bold parts are negative and the one exactly highlights the problem I have.

 

 

Sure, I'll settle for someone I don't want for the sake of having a relationship, makes perfect illogical sense to me. No thanks.

[AMJ]

Why must I bend my expectations to something I do not want? The strange thing is they do exist, I have met people I like, a fair few but none are attainable for me unfortunately and none actually like me. Honestly, I'd rather meet these people, have a few nice minutes than sit with somebody for hours I know I wont ever like.

 

 

Both the bold parts are negative and the one exactly highlights the problem I have.

 

 

Sure, I'll settle for someone I don't want for the sake of having a relationship, makes perfect illogical sense to me. No thanks.

 

This is what I mean by zero-sum. There is a middle ground between these two options. You choose not to see it.

(option 1- being alone forever and 2- settling for someone I'd be unhappy with)

 

And you may think that you don't like a person, but you'll never know unless you give them an actual chance. And one good date every four years means you don't give many people a chance. People can surprise you. Maybe your perfect match isn't eloquent with an impressive vocabulary- do you really think those two things are a required component of IQ or intelligence?

 

Or, okay fine, someone who's well-spoken is a deal breaker for you..but maybe you could bend on other areas.

[ZA Dater]

You've gotten advice from people here. There are literally millions of books and videos aimed at helping men improve at dating. There are dating coaches. You have a near endless amount of resources available that could help you improve.

 

How do you measure improvement? Honestly please tell me?

 

 

How many of those books and dating coaches are there to make money or there to help, I'd wager like therapists there primary objective is to make money rather than actually help but I am cynical.

 

 

I did actually communicate a dating coach in the US via e mail and got much the same advice I don't agree with. "Its a numbers game, you need to do this". Sure, its a numbers game, I know guys who have dated consistently since they were 16, funny I don't know anyone like me. Equally funny none of those successful guys needed to go years and years with no success.

 

 

Facts are, if you cant do this in high school it doesn't get any easier in later life and in all honesty the chances of success seem zero and I'd wager a population sample would support this over any "its a numbers game" theory. Just like the rest of dating all these supposed resources do is further drive what society thinks is right, how society deems the man of 2016 should be, how he should dress, what he should say, how he should smell. Its pure commercialism, nothing more, nothing less. I don't find many examples of dating coaches being needed in the 1980s do I?

 

 

The fact they and therapists are trotted out so often as magic solution is a massive indictment on society at large and the frankly consumer nature of it. OLD has made dating like shopping, pick, choose, throw away, move on. Where its deemed perfectly ok to ignore people after a date instead of simply say NO I AM NOT INTERESTED.

 

 

I am sorry something drastic has gone wrong somewhere that's brought us to this point.

 

 

All I am looking for is a nice intelligent person with the ability to actually speak English and carry themselves with class. I might as well be looking for water in the Gobi.

 

 

I go out and try to do the right thing, what's the point really when its easier to just treat people as disposable objects and manipulate a person to get what you want. Why be honest when you can just get better results bending the truth to suit your end game. Everyone else seems to do variations of these things to great success. There are even book dedicated to the art of it. Am I being righteous, perhaps, I am being honest, definitely.

 

 

Sorry but really if this is what dating requires then I will gladly be a loser, gladly be the guy sitting in the corner on his own because I will NOT do those things to try make someone like me.

 

 

If sitting with me, me taking an interest, me being a gentleman isn't, me actually trying to sell myself isn't enough, then so be. Its never been enough now and I don't think it will ever be when faced with the way society deems dating to work.

[ZA Dater]

This is what I mean by zero-sum. There is a middle ground between these two options. You choose not to see it.

(option 1- being alone forever and 2- settling for someone I'd be unhappy with)

 

And you may think that you don't like a person, but you'll never know unless you give them an actual chance. And one good date every four years means you don't give many people a chance. People can surprise you. Maybe your perfect match isn't eloquent with an impressive vocabulary- do you really think those two things are a required component of IQ or intelligence?

 

Or, okay fine, someone who's well-spoken is a deal breaker for you..but maybe you could bend on other areas.

 

I am not prepared to compromise on the following

: well spoken and ability to actually understand and speak English

: general knowledge and a semblance of word knowledge

: ambition

: class.

: must take good care of themselves.

 

 

I really don't think I am being unrealistic, these people exist but they are all pretty much taken because SURPRISE, everyone else likes those thing too!

[LD1990]

Sorry but really if this is what dating requires then I will gladly be a loser, gladly be the guy sitting in the corner on his own because I will NOT do those things to try make someone like me.

 

 

If sitting with me, me taking an interest, me being a gentleman isn't, me actually trying to sell myself isn't enough, then so be. Its never been enough now and I don't think it will ever be when faced with the way society deems dating to work.

 

You could've saved some time by cutting all the whining and simply stating:

"I'm unwilling to try to improve. I would rather complain about a problem than humble myself, open my mind, and attempt to solve it."

 

You're 32, which is old enough to realize that the world owes you absolutely nothing. It doesn't owe you a girlfriend. It doesn't owe you dating success. Women were not put on this planet to make you feel good about yourself.

 

You're so damn arrogant and stubborn about this and then you wonder why you have no success with women. You keep pretending to have this "too cool for school" attitude, where you tell us all how you don't care anymore and how you're indifferent, well apparently you do care because you've been posting for days now.

 

You suck at dating. You've made that very clear. Despite that, when you contacted a dating coach, you decided you didn't like his advice. Instead of looking for any resources to help you get better, you've decided to write everything off because you're cynical. How could you get good at anything with that attitude?

 

Want to know why you don't get second dates? Because you reek of negativity and desperation. It's easy to see in all your posts here, and if you think you're able to just turn that off when you go on a date, you're dead wrong. People can sense that. Instead of thinking about what you want in a woman, look inward and think about what you bring to the table. Why would this hypothetical woman who ticks all your boxes want to date you? If you never get second dates, it means women aren't enjoying themselves enough on those first dates to want to go out with you again. That's a problem, and you can either correct it or whine endlessly and hope that the world starts revolving around you.

[joseb]

The reason people suggest dating coaches is because you admit yourself you are clueless when it comes to dating. You have no idea how to flirt. Or even to converse in a non businesslike way. And then you wonder why nobody wants another date.

 

I've said this month's ago, but few are born being an expert in dating. We learn through practise, role models, and, for some people, professional coaches.

If you are unwilling to try any if these, then yes you will continue to suck at dating, fail to escalate and fail to get women to be interested in you romanticially.

[AMJ]

I am not prepared to compromise on the following

: well spoken and ability to actually understand and speak English

: general knowledge and a semblance of word knowledge

: ambition

: class.

: must take good care of themselves.

 

 

I really don't think I am being unrealistic, these people exist but they are all pretty much taken because SURPRISE, everyone else likes those thing too!

 

Can't we agree that those things are all qualities from someone who has a college degree? Not necessarily true, I know, but in general? So in that case, you want to date someone who's well educated. If that really is your only requirement, it shouldn't be so difficult to find women to date...

but since it IS difficult for you to find dates, then you have other items on your list, that you didn't share here.

[Miss Spider]

----------

Edited October 20, 2016 by Cookiesandough

[Imajerk17]

ZA, a few thoughts.

 

1. Going on a "great" first date that does not lead to a second date is, unfortunately, a part of dating. I've had it happen to me, and so has everyone else who has given you advice on your thread.

 

2. You are failing to be considering what YOU could have done differently. The big thing was that your follow-up was so weak. A generic message on some app? Seriously? Even if the woman liked you and wanted to see you again, it came across to her that YOU were either not interested or didn't have the confidence to set up a second date properly--which was indeed the case.

 

Thing is, we advised you differently but you didn't take the advice. Ahh well.

 

3. The good thing is, there will be more dates. Including more dates you are excited about. BUT, you need to be more open to feedback than you are in the meanwhile if there is a chance of them going successfully.

[thecrucible]

Want to know why you don't get second dates? Because you reek of negativity and desperation. It's easy to see in all your posts here, and if you think you're able to just turn that off when you go on a date, you're dead wrong. People can sense that. Instead of thinking about what you want in a woman, look inward and think about what you bring to the table. Why would this hypothetical woman who ticks all your boxes want to date you? If you never get second dates, it means women aren't enjoying themselves enough on those first dates to want to go out with you again. That's a problem, and you can either correct it or whine endlessly and hope that the world starts revolving around you.

 

I agree with this. It's like making friends or getting to know people in general. When you meet someone, it's not about you, it's about them. They want to have fun and feel good in your company. This applies to a lot of social situations as well as dating. OP, you could think of reading some classic texts about being socially influential like Dale Carnegie's 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' and maybe some stuff on NLP. But really you also need to feel comfortable in your own skin and have a positive attitude. A positive attitude will be noticed by people around you and is really important. There will be days when you don't feel your best, but putting a brave face on definitely helps.

 

You could try asking for a second date during the first. Say if she mentions that she likes live music, you can make a link and say something like "I've heard that a great band is playing in town next week. Fancy checking it out?". Well that's just one example and it would come across as something that would build a picture in her mind of something fun you can do and would be more direct than just saying "I'd like to see you again".

 

I think I know where you are coming from. You sound introspective like me. I find it difficult to find a guy that 'gets' me. But at the same time, you have to be more open-minded. You can't write people off and assume that they don't get you as sometimes people can surprise you.

[thecrucible]

You want to find a woman who shares similar passions and interests but you can simplify it a bit.

 

My passion is supercars, I am in the fortunate position that I get to drive them often and write about then equally often.

 

This might be more niche and difficult to find a woman with similar interests but if she's adventurous and asks lots of questions about this and is willing to go on some drives with you then that should be enough.

 

My other interests are politics and world affairs as well as writing. I currently near 50k words into a fictional novel.

 

So if you date a woman who's well-educated, possibly in the arts, then you would get someone who gels with you. Anyone intelligent enough will know a reasonable amount about world affairs to have an educated opinion (it might not necessarily be a topic you bring up a lot as it could be a bit heavy for an early date). Not every woman will be into writing but it she enjoys reading, she'll appreciate that interest of yours.

 

I work extremely hard, I try to be articulate, thoughtful and take an interesting in people who grab me. The last two words are important.

 

This is where I think you might be going wrong. I mean take me as an example of a woman. I'm well-read, a university graduate, and I'm thoughtful and articulate. While I'm not a wallflower, I wouldn't say that I 'grab' people as I have a more reserved personality although I'm friendly. Now I wouldn't want men to reject me because I don't have immediate charisma. OP, I hope you see what I'm getting at here.

 

I have zero inclination to boast and sell myself unless people ask.

 

You can sell yourself with a fun personality and by showing you're great to be around and take an interest in people. That's not directly selling yourself but it shows people you're worth knowing.

 

What people need to understand is I am looking for a very specific type of person, one I find extremely rarely. If I am going to bring someone into my world and the things I do they need to have certain non negotiable attributes.

 

In the beginning, you should just focus on finding someone you can have great conversation with and whom you find attractive. You can figure out what's non-negotiable while you're dating. I mean if you find a woman you can connect with in conversation and can talk with for hours then you have the intellectual compatibility assured (which is one of the traits you worried about). If you talk to someone for long enough, you'll soon get enough of a vibe about whether conversational compatibility is there.

 

I have always maintained if I am going to date it must be with someone I like who ticks the boxes and can integrate with me, i.e. intellectually and in truth very few people do.

 

I suspect that you're looking for a particular type of conversation to have with a date. Some people are intelligent but don't like to have conversation about certain topics (doesn't mean they're not at all intellectual). I think if you're unsure you can give it more than one date as the first date you will just be getting to know each other and there isn't a lot of room to get very intellectual anyway. The first date should be focused on feeling comfortable with each other, should have a lighthearted vibe and people should feel great so they want to give it round two.

 

For me its just better to walk away because all these dating experiences just poison everything else.

 

You kind of have to say "oh well" and move on if one date doesn't work out. It's a bit like bidding for business or doing a job application or interview.

[ZA Dater]

You could've saved some time by cutting all the whining and simply stating:

"I'm unwilling to try to improve. I would rather complain about a problem than humble myself, open my mind, and attempt to solve it."

 

You're 32, which is old enough to realize that the world owes you absolutely nothing. It doesn't owe you a girlfriend. It doesn't owe you dating success. Women were not put on this planet to make you feel good about yourself.

 

You're so damn arrogant and stubborn about this and then you wonder why you have no success with women. You keep pretending to have this "too cool for school" attitude, where you tell us all how you don't care anymore and how you're indifferent, well apparently you do care because you've been posting for days now.

 

You suck at dating. You've made that very clear. Despite that, when you contacted a dating coach, you decided you didn't like his advice. Instead of looking for any resources to help you get better, you've decided to write everything off because you're cynical. How could you get good at anything with that attitude?

 

Want to know why you don't get second dates? Because you reek of negativity and desperation. It's easy to see in all your posts here, and if you think you're able to just turn that off when you go on a date, you're dead wrong. People can sense that. Instead of thinking about what you want in a woman, look inward and think about what you bring to the table. Why would this hypothetical woman who ticks all your boxes want to date you? If you never get second dates, it means women aren't enjoying themselves enough on those first dates to want to go out with you again. That's a problem, and you can either correct it or whine endlessly and hope that the world starts revolving around you.

 

Seeing as in this post seems to be so agreed with.

 

I have spent quite a lot of time trying to solve this problem over a number of years, observing successful guys who do date well. Observing society at large, going to coffee shops and seeing really if the old myth of people meeting people there is true (never seen it happen once). My mind is actually quite open, if it wasn't I wouldn't have considered some "alternative" ways to date.

 

Correct what exactly, I have asked her numerous times what people find fund and attractive and thus far no definitive answer can be given. What is fun anyway, seriously think about it, what exactly is it? How do you define it?

 

You can draw whatever assumption you like about me but the fact is you haven't me face to face so any conclusion drawn is a supposition at best. I cannot help how I come across, people have accused me of being negative for years but finally they have just conceded that's how I am. I try to be like everyone else and I am still accused of being negative so there is no winning.

 

As to what I bring to the table. A heck of a lot more than many of the BF's I observe most days.

[ZA Dater]

The reason people suggest dating coaches is because you admit yourself you are clueless when it comes to dating. You have no idea how to flirt. Or even to converse in a non businesslike way. And then you wonder why nobody wants another date.

 

I've said this month's ago, but few are born being an expert in dating. We learn through practise, role models, and, for some people, professional coaches.

If you are unwilling to try any if these, then yes you will continue to suck at dating, fail to escalate and fail to get women to be interested in you romanticially.

 

That's fine then.

 

I just don't get it and the more I read the less any of this makes any sense and the more irrelevant it seems in the grand scheme of things. Sure, I'd have liked to experience the things everyone else does but the more I think about it the more dating seems to fall into the 'nice to have" rather than "need to have".

 

Truthfully people have never been interested in me per se. I'll just make the most of what I know are my good attributes.

 

I'll just embrace this lack of success and next time someone asks me "where is your gf", I'll just say "I cant be bothered really".

[ZA Dater]

I agree with this. It's like making friends or getting to know people in general. When you meet someone, it's not about you, it's about them. They want to have fun and feel good in your company. This applies to a lot of social situations as well as dating. OP, you could think of reading some classic texts about being socially influential like Dale Carnegie's 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' and maybe some stuff on NLP. But really you also need to feel comfortable in your own skin and have a positive attitude. A positive attitude will be noticed by people around you and is really important. There will be days when you don't feel your best, but putting a brave face on definitely helps.

 

You could try asking for a second date during the first. Say if she mentions that she likes live music, you can make a link and say something like "I've heard that a great band is playing in town next week. Fancy checking it out?". Well that's just one example and it would come across as something that would build a picture in her mind of something fun you can do and would be more direct than just saying "I'd like to see you again".

 

I think I know where you are coming from. You sound introspective like me. I find it difficult to find a guy that 'gets' me. But at the same time, you have to be more open-minded. You can't write people off and assume that they don't get you as sometimes people can surprise you.

 

When is it about them making me feel good? Or is this just a one way street. Basically they rock up and I must do those things and they can put in zero effort whatsoever to reciprocate. Interesting.

 

For what its worth I got a curt reply to a question I asked so safe to say I have got the hint from her. A pity but like everyone here says I am such a terrible person who would ever possibly want to spend a minute in my company.

 

Negative, arrogant, cold, business like, all winning attributes those. Oh lets add well spoken to the list too for that's a serious negative most of the time.

 

I think the solution for me is simple, just remove myself from the game completely. Write a few books and I can live vicariously though those and the few people I do interact with day to day. Also I still get to observe people as I live in my own world the way I want to live.

 

With this last date I thought, ok lets try this, objectively it may work, well subjectively it didn't, perhaps I don't have the ability to goof around and manipulate people, woe is me for being honest and forthright.

[basil67]

A pity but like everyone here says I am such a terrible person who would ever possibly want to spend a minute in my company.

 

If everyone here thought you were a terrible person, they would not spend all this time in your company trying to help, guide and support you. Have you considered that saying stuff like this is actually quite a slap in the fact to those who've really tried to help you?

 

Spend a bit of time thinking about how your words effect the people who are trying to help you.

 

It's not all about you.

[joseb]

That's fine then.

 

I just don't get it and the more I read the less any of this makes any sense and the more irrelevant it seems in the grand scheme of things. Sure, I'd have liked to experience the things everyone else does but the more I think about it the more dating seems to fall into the 'nice to have" rather than "need to have".

 

Truthfully people have never been interested in me per se. I'll just make the most of what I know are my good attributes.

 

I'll just embrace this lack of success and next time someone asks me "where is your gf", I'll just say "I cant be bothered really".

 

Well that's a valid choice. I'm not that fussed about dating myself at the moment. Got a lot of other things I'm focusing on.

 

But if you do decide it's worth doing, then a personal hands on coach that can observe you in action would probably give you more useful feedback in one session than any research you do.

Edited October 20, 2016 by joseb

[ZA Dater]

If everyone here thought you were a terrible person, they would not spend all this time in your company trying to help, guide and support you. Have you considered that saying stuff like this is actually quite a slap in the fact to those who've really tried to help you?

 

Spend a bit of time thinking about how your words effect the people who are trying to help you.

 

It's not all about you.

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

The truth is my few friends have pretty much washed their hands of trying to help me with this, which I guess is telling on its own. What is suggested I simply cannot adapt to. People who try to relate cant, when they are gorgeous and can date any guy they like. I am never going to be that guy who can pick up someone random at a coffee shop or a book shop, I simply don't have the confidence for that and I am too shy. What I would like just once perhaps is for some to actually take me a dummy date, just maybe show me how nice it can be and provide some meaningful critique but the thing about this is I'll just realise there is nothing in the dating sense, positive about me at all.

 

As someone said not everyone is good at this and that I agree with. Can people improve, sure. Is it enough to find success, that depends the base from which one is working.

[ZA Dater]

Well that's a valid choice. I'm not that fussed about dating myself at the moment. Got a lot of other things I'm focusing on.

 

But if you do decide it's worth doing, then a personal hands on coach that can observe you in action would probably give you more useful feedback in one session than any research you do.

 

Objectively I cannot think of one thing that makes it worth doing. Feedback is always going to be subjective and never definitive so all you do is chase your tail and run around in the same circles.

 

Kudos to those like me who do find success but I fear they are few and far between. Most probably just end relying on bought success.