So I had a date.

[LD1990]

To be honest, you sound downtrodden, entitled and whiny which are very unattractive personality traits. And before you say "but I don't come across like that on dates", yeah you do. I'd bet a large amount of money that's why you're not being successful in your dating endeavours. So focus on fixing that.

 

I completely agree. A negative attitude infects everything you do. That's one reason why successful people and unsuccessful people often continue down those paths. Successful people are positive and expect to succeed. Unsuccessful people are negative and expect to lose.

 

OP, you have to change your mindset if you want to have a chance out there. Women aren't attracted to guys with loser, defeatist mindsets who mentally break at the first sign of trouble.

[ZA Dater]

To be honest, you sound downtrodden, entitled and whiny which are very unattractive personality traits. And before you say "but I don't come across like that on dates", yeah you do. I'd bet a large amount of money that's why you're not being successful in your dating endeavours. So focus on fixing that.

 

Not a smart bet to take at all.

[ZA Dater]

I completely agree. A negative attitude infects everything you do. That's one reason why successful people and unsuccessful people often continue down those paths. Successful people are positive and expect to succeed. Unsuccessful people are negative and expect to lose.

 

OP, you have to change your mindset if you want to have a chance out there. Women aren't attracted to guys with loser, defeatist mindsets who mentally break at the first sign of trouble.

 

Seeing as you can tell me what they aren't attracted to can you tell me definitively what they are attracted to because I have never been able to work that out.

 

I am actually quite far past the point of caring.

[ZA Dater]

Beggars can't be choosers. Not to say you are a "beggar," but the basic principal still applies.

 

Let's think about this logistically. If you want someone with very rare, non-negotiable qualities, one can only assume that to be with that person, you'll have to also fit their criteria of rare, non-negotiables as well. Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but it certainly will make things difficult for you one way or another.

 

Population of Cape Town - 3.7 million, so let's say 1.85 million women. Let's say ~275k are between the ages of 23 and 33. Let's say half of them are single, so we're left with 137k single women in your age group.

 

Now you're looking for a rare type of person. How rare? Let's say 1 in 200, and that's being generous. So you're left with potentially ~688 women in your city. Now let's consider physical traits, what percentage of people are you attracted to, 3-5%? Now we're left 34 people, or even less than that if you consider other factors like racial preferences, etc. So it's not unrealistic to say .00001% of the population of your city is left in play for you.

 

Now, think about this, of those 34 women left, you have to also meet all their requirements. Think about how quickly we just eliminated 1.8 million people from contention and how easily you could be discarded if we were playing this game with those women. What are the odds of you falling into one of those other person's .0001%? Then, what are the odds of you crossing paths with this person, meeting, and going out? Exponentially smaller still.

 

I'm not suggesting you settle for someone who doesn't make you happy, but it might help to consider that having such stringent criteria might also make you unhappy if it prevents you from getting the things or people you want. Either do whatever needs to be done to meet the person of your dreams -- optimize your search, your efforts, and your life on all fronts -- or, maybe accept that you might have to compromise on a few things. Maybe you meet a girl who isn't exactly what you thought you were looking for but is great in other ways, even if she can't talk about "X" with you, or doesn't want to spend a whole lot of time doing "Y." Honestly, most relationships aren't so absolutely perfect, there is a lot of compromise being made between people who generally enjoy each others' company for the most part. I'd suggest you soften expectations for this reason, or if you're really determined, pull out all the stops and treat finding the right person like a full time job. I know one is easier than the other.

 

I don't really think statistics can be applied to this. Bottom line is I like what I like and dating someone I don't like isn't going to make me any happier than dating nobody at all.

 

The major downfall of using statistics is they are fundamentally guess work in this instance. I don't view my criteria as stringent at all that's the thing, I look at who other people land up with and I sometimes wonder "But why". For me the fundamentals are intelligence and personality and the self confidence to be who they are rather than fitting into what society wants them to be.

 

Let me give you an example of what I mean. A friend of mine knows a lot of 19-24yo's, cool I go and meet them, all seven of them. All are decent looking. How many of them do I like. None. Why. Simply because each one is the same as the next, I talk to them and they look at me as if I am from Mars. I have nothing in common with them at all. Irrespective how much I compromise that wont change. I then meet a 25yo. She is accomplished at many things, well spoken, articulate, driven, great sense of humour but she isn't that fantastic looking but her personality is fantastic and she is her own person, does different things in her spare time. Her I like. Needless to say we communicate well but yet its still not enough.

 

Nothing is ever perfect but I don't want something fundamentally flawed from the off, the 19-24yo's would be that, likewise the 34yo I met who was an international model, again fantastic looking but no intellectual connection at all.

 

Very quickly I have realised why guys go one night stand and don't look to actually build anything, for the most part its is SO hard to meet anyone you like as a whole rather than singular parts. For its about the whole rather than one aspect.

 

What can I do differently on dates, looking back I have no idea, I cant really flirt, perhaps I slip into a sort of business mode but that's just me. I was able to make people laugh. I think I do display good manners. Thing I don't do well, show affection, physical contact and I in the past have wondered to myself "what now". I do compliment them but generally I guess few people ever manage to pique my interests, those that do pique my interest a lot.

 

I realised I probably chased the impossible in some ways but for the most part I do that in most things in life. Most of what I want is based on what I absolutely do not want.

 

Perhaps with this last one I was trying to punch far above my weight, who knows but the idea was a nice one. I then look at what else is on the site and honestly there is no interest there at all.

 

Perhaps my expectations simply exceed what a platform like OLD can offer and my charm is so non existent that random public meetings would never work.

 

Such is life.

[BDJ_1]

Not a smart bet to take at all.

 

Nice way to prove my point, Debbie Downer.

 

Read back the posts you have written in this thread and think about what emotions your mindset and approach would invoke in others. Not emotions a prospective date would be looking for in their dating experience.

[ZA Dater]

Nice way to prove my point, Debbie Downer.

 

Read back the posts you have written in this thread and think about what emotions your mindset and approach would invoke in others. Not emotions a prospective date would be looking for in their dating experience.

 

Its amazing how you correlate written posts with dating experience. My approach, what exactly would that be considering I haven't really documented that here.

 

Suffice to say I haven't heard from her today and don't really expect to. Its fine really, after time one simply expects this to happen thus what is expected happens and anything else is deemed to be unusual.

[AMJ]

What can I do differently on dates, looking back I have no idea, I cant really flirt, perhaps I slip into a sort of business mode but that's just me. I was able to make people laugh. I think I do display good manners. Thing I don't do well, show affection, physical contact and I in the past have wondered to myself "what now". I do compliment them but generally I guess few people ever manage to pique my interests, those that do pique my interest a lot.

 

It's really good that you can recognize this. I went out with a guy last year who was like this. I liked pretty much everything about him, but he couldn't access or maybe just didn't have a softer fun side. I almost wanted to shake him sometimes, and beg him to flirt with me or even just touch me. Our phone conversations were so awkward, because he'd ask me normal friendly questions like "how was your day?" but it seemed forced and scripted almost...like he was just waiting to get to the part where we planned the next date. Because he never responded to my replies or comments, it's like he couldn't move a conversation forward.

And conversations in person were usually just as awkward. I kept thinking he was nervous and needed more time to relax. But by the 4th date I gave up. So it's not a small thing, being able to show and give affection. That's probably the top 5 things most people want from a relationship.

Edited October 18, 2016 by AMJ

[ZA Dater]

It's really good that you can recognize this. I went out with a guy last year who was like this. I liked pretty much everything about him, but he couldn't access or maybe just didn't have a softer fun side. I almost wanted to shake him sometimes, and beg him to flirt with me or even just touch me. Our phone conversations were so awkward, because he'd ask me normal friendly questions like "how was your day?" but it seemed forced and scripted almost...like he was just waiting to get to the part where we planned the next date. Because he never responded to my replies or comments, it's like he couldn't move a conversation forward.

And conversations in person were usually just as awkward. I kept thinking he was nervous and needed more time to relax. But by the 4th date I gave up. So it's not a small thing, being able to show and give affection. That's probably the top 5 things most people want from a relationship.

 

Lots of good points here! Maybe that was my mistake we had a good time talking about things and each other but there wasn't really any flirting because I frankly don't know how to do it. The conversation wasn't awkward at all, I complimented her a lot which I thought was showing interest.

 

 

Honestly I don't really feel much better today, I am tempted to text one last time but I don't think there much to be gained by doing so, her intentions seem quite clear to me.

[AMJ]

Lots of good points here! Maybe that was my mistake we had a good time talking about things and each other but there wasn't really any flirting because I frankly don't know how to do it. The conversation wasn't awkward at all, I complimented her a lot which I thought was showing interest.

 

 

Honestly I don't really feel much better today, I am tempted to text one last time but I don't think there much to be gained by doing so, her intentions seem quite clear to me.

 

Well, I think most people are pretty forgiving about the first date when it comes to nervousness. And sometimes being nervous is endearing or attractive even...but only to an extent. I get the sense you are spending more time in your own head than in the moment with her. I definitely think you should reach out to her again, it's not like you have anything to lose. If I had more context I could help you think of what to say. Try to bring up something she talked about, something that's important to her, to open the door again. Whatever you do, don't act like her not responding to your other text was a big deal, pretend you didn't even notice.

[ZA Dater]

Well, I think most people are pretty forgiving about the first date when it comes to nervousness. And sometimes being nervous is endearing or attractive even...but only to an extent. I get the sense you are spending more time in your own head than in the moment with her. I definitely think you should reach out to her again, it's not like you have anything to lose. If I had more context I could help you think of what to say. Try to bring up something she talked about, something that's important to her, to open the door again. Whatever you do, don't act like her not responding to your other text was a big deal, pretend you didn't even notice.

 

I am torn as to whether to respond via the dating site or via text? Must be honest I don't really feel very comfortable responding at all, how hard would it have been for her to even acknowledge my request for a dinner date this Friday?

 

 

By the way I wasn't nervous at all. A rarity with me when it comes to dating.

[AMJ]

I am torn as to whether to respond via the dating site or via text? Must be honest I don't really feel very comfortable responding at all, how hard would it have been for her to even acknowledge my request for a dinner date this Friday?

 

 

By the way I wasn't nervous at all. A rarity with me when it comes to dating.

 

Not the dating site, thats a step backward. She gave you her number, so you should use it. I do think it wouldn't have killed her to reply to your text, but don't dwell on that. What are you going to say to her?

[ZA Dater]

Not the dating site, thats a step backward. She gave you her number, so you should use it. I do think it wouldn't have killed her to reply to your text, but don't dwell on that. What are you going to say to her?

 

"Hi hope you have had a great week so far. How's the running going? After our conversation I decided to take it up again, feeling good so far but need to keep myself distracted because as you mention running on its own can be boring! One way of keeping myself distracted is to dwell over how nice it was to meet you! You really are special and you left me comprehensively wowed! "

 

 

That's pretty much what comes to mind but I have to be honest it does grate me slightly that I am being ignored.

[Wade Lamare]

"Hi hope you have had a great week so far. How's the running going? After our conversation I decided to take it up again, feeling good so far but need to keep myself distracted because as you mention running on its own can be boring! One way of keeping myself distracted is to dwell over how nice it was to meet you! You really are special and you left me comprehensively wowed! "

 

 

That's pretty much what comes to mind but I have to be honest it does grate me slightly that I am being ignored.

 

Hmm, no expert on this so I'll defer to someone like AMJ.

 

Personally I would leave the last sentence off and perhaps go with;

 

One way of keeping myself distracted is to dwell over how nice it was to meet you! Perhaps we could meet up for a run and then coffee together?

[ZA Dater]

Hmm, no expert on this so I'll defer to someone like AMJ.

 

Personally I would leave the last sentence off and perhaps go with;

 

One way of keeping myself distracted is to dwell over how nice it was to meet you! Perhaps we could meet up for a run and then coffee together?

 

I am still indifferent to even contacting again.

[strawberryshortstack]

I am still indifferent to even contacting again.

 

You get nowhere in life if you don't take chances.

[GemmaUK]

"Hi hope you have had a great week so far. How's the running going? After our conversation I decided to take it up again, feeling good so far but need to keep myself distracted because as you mention running on its own can be boring! One way of keeping myself distracted is to dwell over how nice it was to meet you! You really are special and you left me comprehensively wowed! "

 

 

That's pretty much what comes to mind but I have to be honest it does grate me slightly that I am being ignored.

 

That is waaay to much via text or call - don't say those words. No one on a pedestal lands softly!

 

But you could call and be in interested and friendly.

[GemmaUK]

I am still indifferent to even contacting again.

 

Wow!

 

Ok.

I thought your liked her - seems not.

 

Good luck then ZA!

[LD1990]

I wouldn't contact her again. You already asked her to dinner and she hasn't responded. Maybe she'll get back in touch, maybe she won't, but you were right when you said here that you won't beg for a date.

 

Physical contact and showing affection are both very important, so if you're not good at either, that's an issue. Compliments are alright when used sparingly, but if you overdo it, you just come across as eager to please. Here's the easiest way to explain it - women like the man who grabs them on the ass and pulls them in for a kiss, not the man who tells them how great they are.

 

Getting better at showing affection isn't difficult if you're willing to put in the effort and push past your comfort zone. Just think about the situations you find yourself in on the typical date and consider how you can add more touching to the equation - putting your hand on her leg after a joke, brushing her hair out of her face, keeping your hands near hers on the table, etc.

[SammySammy]

So, is becoming more relaxed and personable the next step in your development?

[GemmaUK]

I wouldn't contact her again. You already asked her to dinner and she hasn't responded. Maybe she'll get back in touch, maybe she won't, but you were right when you said here that you won't beg for a date.

 

Physical contact and showing affection are both very important, so if you're not good at either, that's an issue. Compliments are alright when used sparingly, but if you overdo it, you just come across as eager to please. Here's the easiest way to explain it - women like the man who grabs them on the ass and pulls them in for a kiss, not the man who tells them how great they are.

 

Getting better at showing affection isn't difficult if you're willing to put in the effort and push past your comfort zone. Just think about the situations you find yourself in on the typical date and consider how you can add more touching to the equation - putting your hand on her leg after a joke, brushing her hair out of her face, keeping your hands near hers on the table, etc.

 

Sorry but the OP said facial expressions were too much effort previously.

He has begun smiling within the past 2 weeks though and said he did so on the date.

I think affection may take a bit more time.

[AMJ]

I wouldn't contact her again. You already asked her to dinner and she hasn't responded. Maybe she'll get back in touch, maybe she won't, but you were right when you said here that you won't beg for a date.

 

Physical contact and showing affection are both very important, so if you're not good at either, that's an issue. Compliments are alright when used sparingly, but if you overdo it, you just come across as eager to please. Here's the easiest way to explain it - women like the man who grabs them on the ass and pulls them in for a kiss, not the man who tells them how great they are.

 

Getting better at showing affection isn't difficult if you're willing to put in the effort and push past your comfort zone. Just think about the situations you find yourself in on the typical date and consider how you can add more touching to the equation - putting your hand on her leg after a joke, brushing her hair out of her face, keeping your hands near hers on the table, etc.

 

You know what, that's not his style though. And his match won't like that approach anyway. You can be affectionate and escalate the romance without grabbing her ***. I had a good date the other day and afterward he gave me one of the best compliments I've had from a guy. He just said he had a good time with me and I'm a really sweet person. So simple, but effective.

 

Why did I like hearing that? He was actually listening to what I said, paying attention to who I am, and what I care about. He wants to get to know me. That was really refreshing and a needed change from the dozens of disaster dates I've had lately.

 

That said, I'd be okay with him grabbing my *** and kissing me when the time is right, maybe on date 2, and I'll be disappointed if that never happens. But this sort of thing should happen at whatever pace both people are comfortable with. I am a fan of things progressing a little bit more slowly and letting tension build.

 

ZA if you don't want to text her, don't. But if it's true that a good date like this only happens once every lunar eclipse, maybe you don't want to let good opportunities slip on by. But you need to disconnect a bit from the outcome. You can't let yourself get shattered if she never replies or says something you don't want to hear. Rejection is easier to take when you approach it with a perspective of nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

So, that's my advice. Simple and genuine compliments are best.

[AMJ]

"Hi hope you have had a great week so far. How's the running going? After our conversation I decided to take it up again, feeling good so far but need to keep myself distracted because as you mention running on its own can be boring! One way of keeping myself distracted is to dwell over how nice it was to meet you! You really are special and you left me comprehensively wowed! "

 

 

That's pretty much what comes to mind but I have to be honest it does grate me slightly that I am being ignored.

 

I think that message is good. I'm not one to pick apart stuff like this too much, I was just looking out for a major red flag. If she likes you, and if she's a decent person, she'll respond.

[LD1990]

You know what, that's not his style though. And his match won't like that approach anyway. You can be affectionate and escalate the romance without grabbing her ***. I had a good date the other day and afterward he gave me one of the best compliments I've had from a guy. He just said he had a good time with me and I'm a really sweet person. So simple, but effective.

 

That's no man's style until he makes it his style. No guy is born charming women like James Bond, it takes time, experience, and the right attitude.

 

I don't think you fully understood me, because I mentioned that compliments are fine when used sparingly. The question is whether the OP is using compliments sparingly or all the time. You really appreciated that compliment you got, and it was a great thing to say. But what if the guy you were with spent the entire date complimenting you every 10-15 minutes? After about two or three times, you're probably thinking "OK, I get it, no need to go overboard."

 

The "grab her ass and pull her in for a kiss" was just an example to illustrate a point. I also suggested multiple less aggressive ways he could incorporate physical contact. I understand what it takes and what it's like starting out, because I used to be lousy at physical contact. Attempting it was awkward, but I realized I had to get outside my comfort zone and be aggressive. Now it's easy, it's fun, and I have far more success.

[elaine567]

I guess it may depend on whether she likes compliments or not, some people hate compliments or get embarrassed by them or even get annoyed by them.

I can take a compliment honestly expressed but "You really are special and you left me comprehensively wowed! " would be too much for me after one date, but where I live people in general are not too effusive and are more likely to give you a "put down" in the form of a witty joke (ie banter), than a serious compliment.

 

What nationality is she? I know she has travelled a bit but her native culture may give a clue as to how to pitch it.

[Miss Spider]

Don't contact her again please if she has not responded, but keep dating. There are other women who meet your standards.