Did I have the right to be angry if she didn't put out?

October 15, 2016

Certainly, we don't know the whole situation.

I will say, I do not go to bars often, but I have met a few women at a coffee shop/wine bar/art gallery and brought them home - 3 or 4 women only, over many years. It didn't occur to me that we would have sex because they accepted my invitation, we talked. I ended up marrying one, and dating one for 3 1/2 years.

I am not aware of the rule that if someone comes to my house, they're going to have sex with me that night.

Again, I don't frequent bars, and I don't know how old you are OP, but when I was in college it was surprising to me how many guys (though not a majority) had definite expectations of sex or near-sex if a girl accepted a night out or invite to come over, and then also how many women also expected that, and also how many men and women didn't seem aware there was any expectation and just seemed glad to be meeting someone and have romantic flirting. All these people were mixed up in the same social pool, largely only having a vague impression that the other kind of person existed.

As to how she was making out with you and then wanted to stop - I can see your frustration. To me though, intimacy has always seemed a gift I'm happy to have offered at some point that I find unpredictable.

I think part of what people on this thread are set off by is your statements of being a gentleman, but describing actions that don't show you behaving as if the woman is allowed to enjoy going to second base without then having sex. Some people actually enjoy second base. Even first base!

Sex isn't the only possible enjoyable way to spend an hour or three with a woman (for me, and for many other people).

It sounds like she enjoyed the kissing and heavy petting. I'm sorry you didn't, it's too bad. It can make life sweet I think.

Best Wishes.

October 15, 2016

Certainly, we don't know the whole situation.

I will say, I do not go to bars often, but I have met a few women at a coffee shop/wine bar/art gallery and brought them home - 3 or 4 women only, over many years. It didn't occur to me that we would have sex because they accepted my invitation, we talked. I ended up marrying one, and dating one for 3 1/2 years.

I am not aware of the rule that if someone comes to my house, they're going to have sex with me that night.

Again, I don't frequent bars, and I don't know how old you are OP, but when I was in college it was surprising to me how many guys (though not a majority) had definite expectations of sex or near-sex if a girl accepted a night out or invite to come over, and then also how many women also expected that, and also how many men and women didn't seem aware there was any expectation and just seemed glad to be meeting someone and have romantic flirting. All these people were mixed up in the same social pool, largely only having a vague impression that the other kind of person existed.

As to how she was making out with you and then wanted to stop - I can see your frustration. To me though, intimacy has always seemed a gift I'm happy to have offered at some point that I find unpredictable.

I think part of what people on this thread are set off by is your statements of being a gentleman, but describing actions that don't show you behaving as if the woman is allowed to enjoy going to second base without then having sex. Some people actually enjoy second base. Even first base!

Sex isn't the only possible enjoyable way to spend an hour or three with a woman (for me, and for many other people).

It sounds like she enjoyed the kissing and heavy petting. I'm sorry you didn't, it's too bad. It can make life sweet I think.

Best Wishes.

There are men who understand women and men who don't. You are in the former category, the OP is in the later category.

October 15, 2016

You're not far wrong there. I really don't, they are so hard to understand.

October 15, 2016

I bumped into a girl I know in a bar last night that I was talking to over facebook on and off for a few months. Long story short, I invited her back to mine and things got hot and heavy, had her bra off and she got on top of me and started to dry hump me, making out passionately on the bed and then she pulls the 'I don't want to be an easy ****' card. I told her I think she's cool, felt a connection with her and that she should have communicated it with me before coming back with me because I felt she led me on and played this 'game' on purpose, I told her its blatantly obvious why I asked her back, she was clearly 'in the mood' but held back due to this supposed 'rule' and I like girls that are honest and go for what they want. I'd have probably started to date her if it had happened.

I felt really played and deceived, and I started having a go at her and it escalated into an argument and she made out that I was being weird and crazy about it. I ended up kicking her out because I was so mad, which I feel bad about because its not something I'd normally do, I'm usually a morally driven man and a gentleman.

I suspected this girl was a bit of a narcissist game player before I ever actually met her in person because she seemed to always be uploading selfies and pictures of her everyday life in a sort of 'look at how much of a strong and independent woman I am' kind of way. I was going to take her out on a date before but my suspicions about her character stopped me in my tracks. But when I finally bumped into her I thought, maybe I should give her a chance, maybe I've been single for a long time because I'm too picky and look for the smallest red flags' and then this happened, I now feel as though I should have trusted my instincts.

Well, I'm guessing that you haven't been reading these boards much.

I told her its blatantly obvious why I asked her back -- Women come on these boards almost daily with stories about a man who had asked them back to his place right away. They want us to tell her whether or not she should assume that the guy will be expecting sex. We usually tell them that it's likely but unfair to assume. I tell them to take the high road and not go there for a while until the man demonstrates more serious interest. Most of them just aren't sure what the guy intends.

However, she can and does have the right to say no. I also, do not think that a woman who does what she did has much respect for a man. I think it's inappropriate to manipulate and taunt a man. You do not have the right to be angry with her or treat her poorly because she refused to close the deal, but you do have the right to decide that she is manipulative and, therefore, not a good dating partner.

But, I always tell a woman that if she wants to sleep with a man, she can do that and she should assume it will be a one-night stand until he shows her otherwise by continuing to maintain contact, scheduling proper dates that don't always include sex, etc.

If this happens again with a woman, you should treat her with respect and accept that she "changed" her mind and take a cold shower and remain objective and don't bring women back to your place for sex the very first time you get together. Learn to be patient and get to know a woman a little bit.

October 15, 2016

You're not far wrong there. I really don't, they are so hard to understand.

Think of the times you changed your mind or didn't want to do something even though others expected you to. It makes more sense then.

October 15, 2016

You're not far wrong there. I really don't, they are so hard to understand.

Don't kick yourself over it. Greater minds have wrestled with it and failed. Ask Hawkings or Einstein or Lord Byron. Half of us don't anyhow

October 15, 2016

Exactly! that would be submissive behaviour and showing her that she can walk all over you if it is in her mind to tease you. I have taken women home before and they did the same thing, we just slept in the bed together and they left the next day and I'm thinking 'what the hell was the point of that?'

I didn't sleep with my fiancé the first time I went to his apartment. He cooked dinner for me, we made out and I sat in his lap while we watched a movie, I helped him clean up the kitchen, and I left. He was perfectly fine with that and we ended up having sex the next week anyway. 4 times.

So no, not all men think that inviting a woman over means they deserve to get laid. Only the arrogant ones who will end up alone unless they grow up do.

October 15, 2016

I didn't sleep with my fiancé the first time I went to his apartment. He cooked dinner for me, we made out and I sat in his lap while we watched a movie, I helped him clean up the kitchen, and I left. He was perfectly fine with that and we ended up having sex the next week anyway. 4 times.

So no, not all men think that inviting a woman over means they deserve to get laid. Only the arrogant ones who will end up alone unless they grow up do.

Thats the difference between a 'date'/dinner date intentionally meant to be one and drunkenly going home from a bar. Totally different.

October 15, 2016

Too many judgements going on in this thread...obviously people are triggered, 4 pages in 1 day lmfao...I might as well contribute ay?

The guy did nothing wrong, no need to change behavior

The girl did nothing wrong, no need to change behavior

Since when do we have to be these perfect molds of your idealistic "gentleman" or "woman"...The world is full of diversity, embrace it and stop trying to make everyone follow YOUR thoughts or YOUR ways. Our behaviors are NOT governed by strict laws we all must abide by, stop treating them like the laws of physics...

October 15, 2016

Too many judgements going on in this thread...obviously people are triggered, 4 pages in 1 day lmfao...I might as well contribute ay?

The guy did nothing wrong, no need to change behavior
The girl did nothing wrong, no need to change behavior

Since when do we have to be these perfect molds of your idealistic "gentleman" or "woman"...The world is full of diversity, embrace it and stop trying to make everyone follow YOUR thoughts or YOUR ways. Our behaviors are NOT governed by strict laws we all must abide by, stop treating them like the laws of physics...

Well, there you go. No need to discuss anything on a forum full of strangers being asked for opinions...

October 15, 2016

Thats the difference between a 'date'/dinner date intentionally meant to be one and drunkenly going home from a bar. Totally different.

Still doesn't mean she was obligated to put out or not allowed to change her mind. You were in the wrong. 100%.

Also to whomever said he should have 'whipped it out'..if a guy did that to me I'd have laughed myself silly and called a cab.

October 15, 2016

Still doesn't mean she was obligated to put out or not allowed to change her mind. You were in the wrong. 100%.

Also to whomever said he should have 'whipped it out'..if a guy did that to me I'd have laughed myself silly and called a cab.

In what way? OP didn't force himself on her and respected her refusal to have sex. He kicked her out afterwards but he was well within his rights to do so, as a poster earlier put it he had no entitlement to sex and she had no entitlement to a place to stay that isn't her home. No 'wrong' has been done here. The OP's attitude needs a bit of adjustment admittedly, so does hers because she shouldn't be going back to his in the first place if her intention is just to tease him for a bit.

October 15, 2016

So there are these two bulls on top of a hill...

October 15, 2016

In what way? OP didn't force himself on her and respected her refusal to have sex. He kicked her out afterwards but he was well within his rights to do so, as a poster earlier put it he had no entitlement to sex and she had no entitlement to a place to stay that isn't her home. No 'wrong' has been done here. The OP's attitude needs a bit of adjustment admittedly, so does hers because she shouldn't be going back to his in the first place if her intention is just to tease him for a bit.

I never said he was in the wrong for kicking her out..of course that was well within his rights. I was referring to his sense of entitlement towards her vagina.

I seriously doubt her intention was to tease him. Not everyone thinks the way you do. Perhaps she was just enjoying his company and thought he was enough of a gentleman not to expect sex just because she went to his apartment. I don't think she did anything wrong by saying no.

October 15, 2016

I never said he was in the wrong for kicking her out..of course that was well within his rights. I was referring to his sense of entitlement towards her vagina.

I seriously doubt her intention was to tease him. Not everyone thinks the way you do. Perhaps she was just enjoying his company and thought he was enough of a gentleman not to expect sex just because she went to his apartment. I don't think she did anything wrong by saying no.

Not everybody thinks the way you do- well obviously. As you are female perhaps you could explain the female viewpoint then because this is what I can't get my head round:

The girl rejects sex because she is 'not being that type of girl' or whatever. If that is the case, she would have not been that type of girl before even agreeing to go back with him- so why go back? Maybe she thought he was a gentleman and they would drink tea, eat biscuits and play scrabble at 3am at his place like every other couple that meet in a bar have a few drinks and get a taxi back to the guy's place. So okay whatever they go back to his, he gets the scrabble board out and somehow it turns out he isn't a gentleman and he tries it on. Why not cut and run at that point? Why does it take her until she is dry humping him to shut him down? She has basically got as close to the act as possible without doing it. Fine, she is allowed to do that- but why did she put herself in that situation?

I guess I am trying to apply logic and reason to female behaviour, a notorious plane of existence where there is no logic and reason so that is probably my mistake. I just can't see how she is naive enough to put herself in that situation if her intention wasn't some sort of sexual power play (confirmation of her desirability without actually racking up another notch on her belt).

October 15, 2016

So there are these two bulls on top of a hill...

I don't understand because I don’t see how she was a bull.

I bumped into a girl I know in a bar last night that I was talking to over facebook on and off for a few months. Long story short, I invited her back to mine and things got hot and heavy, had her bra off and she got on top of me and started to dry hump me, making out passionately on the bed and then she pulls the 'I don't want to be an easy ****' card. I told her I think she's cool, felt a connection with her and that she should have communicated it with me before coming back with me because I felt she led me on and played this 'game' on purpose, I told her its blatantly obvious why I asked her back, she was clearly 'in the mood' but held back due to this supposed 'rule' and I like girls that are honest and go for what they want. I'd have probably started to date her if it had happened.

I felt really played and deceived, and I started having a go at her and it escalated into an argument and she made out that I was being weird and crazy about it. I ended up kicking her out because I was so mad, which I feel bad about because its not something I'd normally do, I'm usually a morally driven man and a gentleman.

I suspected this girl was a bit of a narcissist game player before I ever actually met her in person because she seemed to always be uploading selfies and pictures of her everyday life in a sort of 'look at how much of a strong and independent woman I am' kind of way. I was going to take her out on a date before but my suspicions about her character stopped me in my tracks. But when I finally bumped into her I thought, maybe I should give her a chance, maybe I've been single for a long time because I'm too picky and look for the smallest red flags' and then this happened, I now feel as though I should have trusted my instincts.

October 15, 2016

Not everybody thinks the way you do- well obviously. As you are female perhaps you could explain the female viewpoint then because this is what I can't get my head round:

The girl rejects sex because she is 'not being that type of girl' or whatever. If that is the case, she would have not been that type of girl before even agreeing to go back with him- so why go back? Maybe she thought he was a gentleman and they would drink tea, eat biscuits and play scrabble at 3am at his place like every other couple that meet in a bar have a few drinks and get a taxi back to the guy's place. So okay whatever they go back to his, he gets the scrabble board out and somehow it turns out he isn't a gentleman and he tries it on. Why not cut and run at that point? Why does it take her until she is dry humping him to shut him down? She has basically got as close to the act as possible without doing it. Fine, she is allowed to do that- but why did she put herself in that situation?

I guess I am trying to apply logic and reason to female behaviour, a notorious plane of existence where there is no logic and reason so that is probably my mistake. I just can't see how she is naive enough to put herself in that situation if her intention wasn't some sort of sexual power play (confirmation of her desirability without actually racking up another notch on her belt).

Its totally in both our rights to do what we did (apart from me being so harsh about it) I agree. But I also agree that it is kind of absurd to be 'not that kind of girl' when they think its fine to willingly grind their genitals on a guy and doesn't categorise them as one.

October 15, 2016

She was drunk and got carried away and then had a moment of clarity and stopped before she did something she would regret. Nothing wrong with that. You have every right to feel however you feel, but fighting about it was idiotic. Did you think you'd persuade her into it or something?

October 15, 2016

Not everybody thinks the way you do- well obviously. As you are female perhaps you could explain the female viewpoint then because this is what I can't get my head round:

The girl rejects sex because she is 'not being that type of girl' or whatever. If that is the case, she would have not been that type of girl before even agreeing to go back with him- so why go back? Maybe she thought he was a gentleman and they would drink tea, eat biscuits and play scrabble at 3am at his place like every other couple that meet in a bar have a few drinks and get a taxi back to the guy's place. So okay whatever they go back to his, he gets the scrabble board out and somehow it turns out he isn't a gentleman and he tries it on. Why not cut and run at that point? Why does it take her until she is dry humping him to shut him down? She has basically got as close to the act as possible without doing it. Fine, she is allowed to do that- but why did she put herself in that situation?

I guess I am trying to apply logic and reason to female behaviour, a notorious plane of existence where there is no logic and reason so that is probably my mistake. I just can't see how she is naive enough to put herself in that situation if her intention wasn't some sort of sexual power play (confirmation of her desirability without actually racking up another notch on her belt).

This is an ancient observation regarding women. It is also irrelevant to this thread. SO WHAT if the OP can't figure out women (or this woman)? She played him as he was trying to play her. They both got burned.

Next time ask the lady out on a date instead of trying to shag her. I mean really...she was no Mother Teresa, but she is also entitled to change her mind at any time.

The OP says that she knew what was to happen. Did the OP SPECIFICALLY tell her that he wanted to have sex???? Intercourse???? Could it be possible that the girl thought a heavy session of making out was going to be as far as it would go? YES, very possible.

October 15, 2016

You're the one who blew it. If you wanted to date her, then instead of asking her over for sex, you ask her out for a date and then date her awhile and see if you like each other and then see about sex. You thought just because you weren't that interested in her that she would be more interested in you, it sounds like, and put out.

P.S. Ever hear of trying not to get pregnant by a stranger you don't even know you can trust to leave the condom on?

October 15, 2016

She was drunk and got carried away and then had a moment of clarity and stopped before she did something she would regret. Nothing wrong with that. You have every right to feel however you feel, but fighting about it was idiotic. Did you think you'd persuade her into it or something?

I had no intention of persuading her. At that point, I felt I was done with her and I just made it clear to her that she shouldn't have let it go so far and then make me feel rejected. Tell me as soon as we get in the room and start kissing, don't get my hopes up and be half naked and pretending to go along with it.

I would have handled it a lot better if she had just said sooner.

October 15, 2016

I read this thread as such...Swan was lukewarm about woman but after drinking in a bar and said woman became sexually suggestive, decided to have a go.

Back to his place hot and heavy then...poof, never mind (sobered up or time lapse between thought/action.)

The entitlement on the part of Swan is that he took the bait of easy sex from an inebriated woman.

The problem Swan, is that no matter the level of seduction prior to penetration...no does mean no.

I get that you were confused but if you choose to pick up a drunk or sober woman outside of a relationship or without knowing her very well, be prepared to not have sex with her no matter how much fooling around occurs.

Either properly date a woman and let the relationship progress to sex/intimacy or do not be agitated if a woman you pick up for a ONS changes her mind at any point in the encounter.

October 15, 2016

I read this thread as such...Swan was lukewarm about woman but after drinking in a bar and said woman became sexually suggestive, decided to have a go.
Back to his place hot and heavy then...poof, never mind (sobered up or time lapse between thought/action.)

The entitlement on the part of Swan is that he took the bait of easy sex from an inebriated woman.

The problem Swan, is that no matter the level of seduction prior to penetration...no does mean no.

I get that you were confused but if you choose to pick up a drunk or sober woman outside of a relationship or without knowing her very well, be prepared to not have sex with her no matter how much fooling around occurs.

Either properly date a woman and let the relationship progress to sex/intimacy or do not be agitated if a woman you pick up for a ONS changes her mind at any point in the encounter.

I will from now on, to expect the unexpected for the sake of my sanity and self esteem.

October 15, 2016

Its totally in both our rights to do what we did (apart from me being so harsh about it) I agree. But I also agree that it is kind of absurd to be 'not that kind of girl' when they think its fine to willingly grind their genitals on a guy and doesn't categorise them as one.

People engage on dry humping for a reason and that reason is that usually they do not want to take the step to full blown sex, else they would have jettisoned their clothes and just had sex. You misread the clues.

I think you are thinking like a horny man and for YOU taking a girl home to your apartment = easy sex.

Whereas to many women invited to an apartment may mean making out or just a chance to be alone and get to know someone better, or more wine or just a bed for the night.

It is not guaranteed full blown sex, and you should never assume that it is, so you need to alter your thinking there, else you could land in trouble.

YOU already talked to her for a few months on FB, so why would you assume sex was a sure thing here?

October 15, 2016

People engage on dry humping for a reason and that reason is that usually they do not want to take the step to full blown sex, else they would have jettisoned their clothes and just had sex. You misread the clues.

I think you are thinking like a horny man and for YOU taking a girl home to your apartment = easy sex.
Whereas to many women invited to an apartment may mean making out or just a chance to be alone and get to know someone better, or more wine or just a bed for the night.
It is not guaranteed full blown sex, and you should never assume that it is, so you need to alter your thinking there, else you could land in trouble.

YOU already talked to her for a few months on FB, so why would you assume sex was a sure thing here?

Well this is news to me, at least I've learned something new. I thought thought it was common knowledge that going home with someone from a bar was an unspoken code for sex.

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Did I have the right to be angry if she didn't put out?

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