Did I have the right to be angry if she didn't put out?

[Swan89]

I bumped into a girl I know in a bar last night that I was talking to over facebook on and off for a few months. Long story short, I invited her back to mine and things got hot and heavy, had her bra off and she got on top of me and started to dry hump me, making out passionately on the bed and then she pulls the 'I don't want to be an easy ****' card. I told her I think she's cool, felt a connection with her and that she should have communicated it with me before coming back with me because I felt she led me on and played this 'game' on purpose, I told her its blatantly obvious why I asked her back, she was clearly 'in the mood' but held back due to this supposed 'rule' and I like girls that are honest and go for what they want. I'd have probably started to date her if it had happened.

 

I felt really played and deceived, and I started having a go at her and it escalated into an argument and she made out that I was being weird and crazy about it. I ended up kicking her out because I was so mad, which I feel bad about because its not something I'd normally do, I'm usually a morally driven man and a gentleman.

 

I suspected this girl was a bit of a narcissist game player before I ever actually met her in person because she seemed to always be uploading selfies and pictures of her everyday life in a sort of 'look at how much of a strong and independent woman I am' kind of way. I was going to take her out on a date before but my suspicions about her character stopped me in my tracks. But when I finally bumped into her I thought, maybe I should give her a chance, maybe I've been single for a long time because I'm too picky and look for the smallest red flags' and then this happened, I now feel as though I should have trusted my instincts.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Swan89

[lilmissjava]

Women definitely have the option of not putting out if she so pleases.

 

If you are/were a gentleman, taking someone home you only just met in person from a bar is not a quality I'd be expecting from you.

[Swan89]

Women definitely have the option of not putting out if she so pleases.

 

If you are/were a gentleman, taking someone home you only just met in person from a bar is not a quality I'd be expecting from you.

 

Maybe so, but why not say it? Why lead someone on like that? That is my point.

[Toodaloo]

No. You have no right what so ever to be angry with her.

 

Your reaction to her saying no to sex proves that she was right to say no.

 

You are not "owed" anything by anyone. Likewise you owe them nothing.

 

What a really great guy would have done is said "thats fine" curled up with her and gone to sleep. Then made breakfast together and been happy and cool about it the next day.

 

You didn't - you went mad at her and threw her out in the middle of the night.

 

Those are not the actions of a gentleman. Those are not the actions of a decent person.

 

Everyone, male or female, has the right to say no at any point and have that no respected.

 

No one, male or female, has the right to take what they want from another persons body.

[Toodaloo]

Maybe so, but why not say it? Why lead someone on like that? That is my point.

 

Because it is her right to say no and that be respected. Just as it is your right to say no and it be respected.

 

It got heated it was going further than she wanted so she stopped it. Plain and simple.

 

Your behavior was terrible.

[LikeMariella]

You are apparently unaware of this, but some people do prefer to not have sex with someone the first time they meet them, or the second, or the third. It seems to me that she just wanted to make out with you, but did not feel comfortable having sex with you, possibly because it is a rule for her not to have sex with someone before whenever, or for other reasons she didn't want to talk to you about. Maybe she wanted to have sex with you when you asked her to come back to your place and changed her mind later because she got to know you better or thought you were bad at kissing.

If you want someone to know that you want to have sex with them, ask them whether they want to come back to your place and have sex with you. Then you both know what the other one wants, and communication gets a whole lot easier. It's not a very smooth solution, but you seem to be unable to deal with the other one.

I find it highly unlikely that she did this to make you angry. Without implying that you would rape a woman, many women are afraid of rape and tend to try and not get into situations like the one you described. I think this was simply an issue of miscommunication, and you should be angry at exactly one person, namely yourself for not being clear and expecting things from people without asking for them.

[elaine567]

I like girls that are honest and go for what they want.

That is untrue, as when she told you what she really wanted to happen, you got mad and threw her out into the street.

YOU wanted her to want what you really wanted to happen, and that is a different thing all together.

[Swan89]

Because it is her right to say no and that be respected. Just as it is your right to say no and it be respected.

 

It got heated it was going further than she wanted so she stopped it. Plain and simple.

 

Your behavior was terrible.

 

Yes, I'm aware it wasn't a good move. I do feel bad because I usually take pride in being a good person, and this was definitely a pitfall in behaviour for me. But am I the only person that thinks that it was at least a little dishonest of her? Do you think I could have had this reaction because in the back of my mind, even though I felt as though we had good conversation, I wasn't really into her or not fully sold on her as a person?

 

Because in the past, I have been in a situation like that before but because I was genuinely into the girl, I was ok with it! Its strange why I reacted like this this time around.

[lilmissjava]

Because in the past, I have been in a situation like that before but because I was genuinely into the girl, I was ok with it! Its strange why I reacted like this this time around.

 

Just add alcohol.

 

We don't need to go into the specifics of all things that can and do go wrong in society when alcohol is involved.

 

Her being dishonest about making out and pulling the plug on sex? You are being dishonest with yourself for even suggesting this. You cannot persuade anyone here to be on your side when you threw her out in the street for not putting out.

[Toodaloo]

Yes, I'm aware it wasn't a good move. I do feel bad because I usually take pride in being a good person, and this was definitely a pitfall in behaviour for me. But am I the only person that thinks that it was at least a little dishonest of her? Do you think I could have had this reaction because in the back of my mind, even though I felt as though we had good conversation, I wasn't really into her or not fully sold on her as a person?

 

Because in the past, I have been in a situation like that before but because I was genuinely into the girl, I was ok with it! Its strange why I reacted like this this time around.

 

Nope. It was not dishonest at all. She went as far as she felt comfortable then said stop. You the went primal on her for asking you to stop? Not gentlemanly, not cool and really not macho in any way shape or form. If you pride yourself on being a good, decent person then this question would not even have entered into your mind. You would have reacted a completely different way.

 

Instead you behaved as though it is your right to do what the hell you wanted with her body because you wanted to. Its called entitlement complex and so you are now just another bozo with it in her mind.

 

You have no rights at all to another person like that. To even start to think you do is despicable and vile. How would you like it if you got heavy with a girl and then she had a go at you for not wanting a broom handle shoved up your ass? Same thing going on right here...

 

Its not strange at all. You are simply another one of the guys in this world who think that because they have a penis if a girl snogs him and allows him to get a bit heavy with her then he has the "right" to poke his penis into which ever of her orafices he see's fit.

 

Change your attitude and learn the real meaning of the word respect. You will be calmer, happier, stronger and way more attractive for it.

 

Right now if you were my son you would be regretting this big time...

[phineas]

she came home with you.

she knew what that meant.

she got you all worked up then shut you down.

she knew what she was doing.

 

Yeah, you have every right to be pissed.

 

now before the women of LS jump down my throat with "she isn't obligated to sleep with him"

I ain't saying she is obligated.

 

I'm saying anyone, man or woman has a right to be mad at someone when they lead them on.

 

Now, that said.

OP, you made yourself look like a total butthurt by showing anger.

NEVER show anger to a woman early on unless you are looking to be rid of her for good.

 

Should of told her "ok, i got stuff to do in the morning, you can let yourself out" and turned over to goto bed.

 

or just whipped it out without saying a thing.

 

For me my bedroom is upstairs so i usually start out on the couch. if they shut it down I just tell them i'm tired and go up to bed. give them the option of leaving or crashing on the couch. tell them the ottoman has blankets under the lid then goto bed.

They either follow or leave. win/win in my book.

 

Basically you could of handled that multiple ways but you made yourself look like a "creep". I say "creep" because any man who calls a woman out on her games or BS is labeled "creep". it's a defense mechanism for women who can't take responsibility for their actions.

[lilmissjava]

she came home with you.

she knew what that meant.

 

It's statements like this that make guys believe they have that right when they flat out don't.

[Toodaloo]

she came home with you.

she knew what that meant.

she got you all worked up then shut you down.

she knew what she was doing.

 

Yeah, you have every right to be pissed.

 

now before the women of LS jump down my throat with "she isn't obligated to sleep with him"

I ain't saying she is obligated.

 

I'm saying anyone, man or woman has a right to be mad at someone when they lead them on.

 

 

I have been lead on by men and turned down. Difference is I have respect for the word NO!

 

Was I p***ed - not really. He had every right to say no at any point as does everyone.

 

So she started and decided she couldn't go through with it. That happens all the time and not just in personal relationships, it happens in the work place when people pull out of deals or cancel orders. It happens all the time.

[Swan89]

Nope. It was not dishonest at all. She went as far as she felt comfortable then said stop. You the went primal on her for asking you to stop? Not gentlemanly, not cool and really not macho in any way shape or form. If you pride yourself on being a good, decent person then this question would not even have entered into your mind. You would have reacted a completely different way.

 

Instead you behaved as though it is your right to do what the hell you wanted with her body because you wanted to. Its called entitlement complex and so you are now just another bozo with it in her mind.

 

You have no rights at all to another person like that. To even start to think you do is despicable and vile. How would you like it if you got heavy with a girl and then she had a go at you for not wanting a broom handle shoved up your ass? Same thing going on right here...

 

Its not strange at all. You are simply another one of the guys in this world who think that because they have a penis if a girl snogs him and allows him to get a bit heavy with her then he has the "right" to poke his penis into which ever of her orafices he see's fit.

 

Change your attitude and learn the real meaning of the word respect. You will be calmer, happier, stronger and way more attractive for it.

 

Right now if you were my son you would be regretting this big time...

 

Right, well thankyou for your insight. I hate the idea of having personality flaws and I can see your point, and I'm always striving to improve myself even though occasionally I mess up and go about things the wrong way. I think we'll just have to chalk this one up as a learning curve and move on?

[lilmissjava]

Right, well thankyou for your insight. I hate the idea of having personality flaws and I can see your point, and I'm always striving to improve myself even though occasionally I mess up and go about things the wrong way. I think we'll just have to chalk this one up as a learning curve and move on?

 

No expectations, no disappointments.

[enddeck]

Dude you screwed up.If you had just said ok I don't want you to do anything you are uncomfortable with she would have been very impressed with you and you could have gone to sleep together.

Then you could have had great morning sex!

[insert_name]

No. You have no right what so ever to be angry with her.

 

Your reaction to her saying no to sex proves that she was right to say no.

 

You are not "owed" anything by anyone. Likewise you owe them nothing.

 

What a really great guy would have done is said "thats fine" curled up with her and gone to sleep. Then made breakfast together and been happy and cool about it the next day.

 

You didn't - you went mad at her and threw her out in the middle of the night.

 

Those are not the actions of a gentleman. Those are not the actions of a decent person.

 

Everyone, male or female, has the right to say no at any point and have that no respected.

 

No one, male or female, has the right to take what they want from another persons body.

 

That is what a door mat would do.

 

I get the female out-rage at OP- he didn'the handle it well at all, but there is a middle ground here, both parties have fault in this scenario.

 

She of course has every right to say no and he has to respect that but it gives her no moral high ground at all to go back to his place (she must know what his expectations are here) from that point she could drink coffee and chat and then leave, again he would be disappointed given the expectation but still a reasonable outcome. For her to engage in physical intimacy, escalating it to dry humping and then....stopping, that is rightly or wrongly going to sew doubt in a man's mind that you are a tease who loves using your sexual power to give a guy blue balls. She is entirely within her rights to do that of course but he is within his rights not to be happy about the situation and feel like he has been played a bit.

 

So I think OP is getting chewed out here a bit unfairly. The female viewpoint in such situations always seems to be that the woman can do what she likes and the man has to suck it up, there is little empathy for how the man often gets left feeling rejected which is unusual because the reverse is one of the worst things you can do to a woman from what I read on these boards.

 

OP used the phrase "kicked out" which is obviously a very strong reaction. I am not sure the situation warranted that but really your suggestion of a good guy curling up with her and going to sleep is an incredibly insipid reaction to being sexually rejected in that situation after it sounds like she was driving the situation to that point. I would have immediately stopped the physical activity in accordance with her wishes, told her she was free to leave at any time and then gone to sleep. If she was still there in the morning I would maybe re-consider her motives for coming back with me.

[mortensorchid]

The woman does have the option to say no or change her mind, to be sure. But I think you also have a right to be angry as well. She did come over your house and that implies something already. When you were in the throws of it, she said no, and you respected that decision because you should respect it. Neither one of you, however, is in a respectable situation with each other. You were expecting something, she was as well, as it sounds like, and you really ... Should either have done the deed or not have done the deed, and you didn't. So now move on.

[Nowty V]

I think we'll just have to chalk this one up as a learning curve and move on?

 

You could apologise.

 

Nothing flowery, nothing with barbs in trying to hook her, and nothing that warrants a reply.

 

Just a simple message to say "I apologise for my appalling behaviour"

 

Then you can chalk it up to a lesson learnt and move on.

[Swan89]

The woman does have the option to say no or change her mind, to be sure. But I think you also have a right to be angry as well. She did come over your house and that implies something already. When you were in the throws of it, she said no, and you respected that decision because you should respect it. Neither one of you, however, is in a respectable situation with each other. You were expecting something, she was as well, as it sounds like, and you really ... Should either have done the deed or not have done the deed, and you didn't. So now move on.

 

I think If she had just said 'I don't want us to have sex yet' BEFORE turning me on and groping me, I wouldn't have felt so upset about it. That is what triggered me, she let it get to a sexual point of it stopping just short of intercourse. Same as if I hadn't been drinking, I would never have lost my temper that badly, I would have been disappointed but being sober I would have just said, ok then...

[phineas]

It's statements like this that make guys believe they have that right when they flat out don't.

 

it's statements like these that make me think women believe they have a right to lead men on and be dic-teases when they flat out don't.

[Swan89]

That is what a door mat would do.

 

I get the female out-rage at OP- he didn'the handle it well at all, but there is a middle ground here, both parties have fault in this scenario.

 

She of course has every right to say no and he has to respect that but it gives her no moral high ground at all to go back to his place (she must know what his expectations are here) from that point she could drink coffee and chat and then leave, again he would be disappointed given the expectation but still a reasonable outcome. For her to engage in physical intimacy, escalating it to dry humping and then....stopping, that is rightly or wrongly going to sew doubt in a man's mind that you are a tease who loves using your sexual power to give a guy blue balls. She is entirely within her rights to do that of course but he is within his rights not to be happy about the situation and feel like he has been played a bit.

 

So I think OP is getting chewed out here a bit unfairly. The female viewpoint in such situations always seems to be that the woman can do what she likes and the man has to suck it up, there is little empathy for how the man often gets left feeling rejected which is unusual because the reverse is one of the worst things you can do to a woman from what I read on these boards.

 

OP used the phrase "kicked out" which is obviously a very strong reaction. I am not sure the situation warranted that but really your suggestion of a good guy curling up with her and going to sleep is an incredibly insipid reaction to being sexually rejected in that situation after it sounds like she was driving the situation to that point. I would have immediately stopped the physical activity in accordance with her wishes, told her she was free to leave at any time and then gone to sleep. If she was still there in the morning I would maybe re-consider her motives for coming back with me.

 

Nice to see some support on a male's point of view. Unfortunatly, you are dead right about this scenario. It really does seem in this day and age, women actively exercise their 'upper hand' position in society where they can do as they please and all the responsibility is dropped on the man to 'be a man about it'.

[Gr8fuln2020]

...pulls the 'I don't want to be an easy ****' card. I told her I think she's cool, felt a connection with her and that she should have communicated it with me before coming back with me because I felt she led me on and played this 'game' on purpose, I told her its blatantly obvious why I asked her back, she was clearly 'in the mood' but held back due to this supposed 'rule' and I like girls that are honest and go for what they want. I'd have probably started to date her if it had happened.

 

I felt really played and deceived, and I started having a go at her and it escalated into an argument and she made out that I was being weird and crazy about it. I ended up kicking her out because I was so mad, which I feel bad about because its not something I'd normally do, I'm usually a morally driven man and a gentleman.

 

I suspected this girl was a bit of a narcissist game player before I ever actually met her in person because she seemed to always be uploading selfies and pictures of her everyday life in a sort of 'look at how much of a strong and independent woman I am' kind of way. I was going to take her out on a date before but my suspicions about her character stopped me in my tracks. But when I finally bumped into her I thought, maybe I should give her a chance, maybe I've been single for a long time because I'm too picky and look for the smallest red flags' and then this happened, I now feel as though I should have trusted my instincts.

 

Ha ha... I had few chuckles with this post.

 

You, sir, do not sound like a morally driven individual, nor a gentleman. Your very post incriminates you.

 

First, yes, you have every right to be pissed, but only b/c you didn't get what you wanted and b/c she did play you. But she also has every right, at any time, to say NO.

 

Based on your post, I suspect your intentions were SEX first, maybe relationship SECOND. You even say that you'd 'probably' dated her. You gave her the typical 'I think there's a connection BS' to get her to sleep with you, but oddly lambast her for being narcissistic, etc. Of course you knew or suspected this BEFORE you decided to "give her a chance."

 

I suspect she dodged a bullet...and you.

[phineas]

I have been lead on by men and turned down. Difference is I have respect for the word NO!

 

Was I p***ed - not really. He had every right to say no at any point as does everyone.

 

So she started and decided she couldn't go through with it. That happens all the time and not just in personal relationships, it happens in the work place when people pull out of deals or cancel orders. It happens all the time.

 

this isn't a canceled dinner or business deal.

Nor do those fit into the context of the situation.

 

If a guy led you on in a romantic context then bailed on you, you would be pissed.

I don't know any woman who wouldn't.

She'd probably get sad first but after, pissed.

[Popsicle]

No means no. Remember that. Remembering this is for your benefit in this litigious society. At any moment prior to sex, she can say no. Just an ounce more of entitlement could cause you to do something that could ruin your life.

 

That said, she didn't know you. She was taking a big risk in going back to your place alone with you and getting hot and heavy. She should thank her lucky stars that all you did was get pissed and kick her out. If I were her I'd steer clear of you from now on.