Pursuer/Avoider Relationship

[SpringAngel83]

Does anyone have any insight into the Pursuer/Avoider Relationship? I found an article that describes my 3.5 year relationship perfectly. I'm the pursuer and my boyfriend the dismissive-avoider. He intentionally sabotages anything emotional or intimate. In a nutshell... When I notice something wrong I reach for him and my reaching for him makes him run. It turns into a vicious cycle.

 

I'm leaving this relationship and hope that someone out there is familiar with this... I'd just like some insight. I love him so much it's going to be hard to leave. I always keep thinking under that thick skin I know he loves me and I don't want to give up. But, I just don't see how it can be healthy for either of us.

 

http://the-love-compass.com/2014/03/01/understanding-the-needs-of-the-avoidantdismissive-attachment-style/

Edited October 6, 2016 by SpringAngel83

[joyful]

I would likely be categorized as the avoidant person in most of my relationships. While most attachment studies focus on the anxiety of the pursuer, a lot less attention is given to the anxiety of the distancer. Being close to people makes me anxious -- because I have a hard time maintaining boundaries and I don't want to be overtaken by another person but also because I never want to really need a person who then goes away.

 

For the distancer, it is an overwhelming, icky, and sad feeling to be made aware of how much someone loves, wants, and does for you -- while you feel like something is wrong with you (or you are not a good person) for not having the same energy or enthusiasm for them and the relationship.

 

Also, although it is ungenerous and unfair, the pursuer begins to feel like an entitled and manipulative person because the pursuer never seems to relinquish what they want, which is more of you. Eventually, distancers start to have negative opinions about the pursuer. Pursuers seem like score-keepers, and dealing with them goes from being annoying to being unbearable. Everything starts to feel like they have an agenda to get you -- whether you want to be gotten that fully by them or not. It is a relief when it's all over -- even if you feel bad or think you will miss them.

 

I think both the pursuer and the distancer are ill prepared for a mature relationship -- and have personal healing to do on their own.

[SpringAngel83]

Joyful I'm curious as to what kind of a relationship is ideal for an avoider?

[joyful]

Joyful I'm curious as to what kind of a relationship is ideal for an avoider?

 

I am not sure if you can have a happy, healthy relationship with an avoider because relationships require more engagement and commitment than most avoiders can manage. This kind of relationship typically goes three steps forward, two steps back with most avoiders being willing to throw in the towel along the way. The responsibility of staying consistent present with another person's emotions and needs feels too big. It really is an insecure attachment form.

 

For me personally, I tend to feel most comfortable with partners who have a huge life outside of the relationship and who make relatively few demands on me. I need to be the one who sets the pace. Feeling like the person is my friend first and wants the best for me outside of the relationship helps me to build trust and to be more open to them.

 

The hardest part for me is to feel like I am accruing relationship debt just for getting close to someone. If you can be in an intimate relationship with someone but still have a "live and let live" attitude with them, this will work for an avoider.

[joyful]

I just want to add that I am a single parent, and my child has my whole heart. My child means more to me than any and everyone in the whole world.

 

Avoiders typically have something in their lives -- jobs, hobbies, friends, etc -- that matter more to them than their relationships, and this is where they usually invest their the majority of their emotional energy.

[SpringAngel83]

Thank you for your insight. It helps to hear something from the other side. It's felt like we were just buddies (good buddies... we have a lot of fun together) for a long time. But the physical and emotional side has just disappeared. I guess that's where he comfortable staying. Man it started out so great. This breaks my heart but I want to do what's best for both of us. And it breaks my heart that he can't feel happy and secure in a relationship.

[joyful]

I'm really sorry, SpringAngel.

 

I wanted to answer your question because I think it can be hard to understand how avoiders think and feel. Avoiders are often aware that they are not making their partners happy or are not giving fully in a relationship-sense. It causes guilt and judgment, but many don't have the skills or the emotional energy to fix the problem.

[SpringAngel83]

Thank you Joyful. A lot of things are making sense to me now that I couldn't wrap my head around before. At least I'm finally getting some answers and not driving myself crazy trying to figure out what's going on!

 

I'm glad you have your baby to love deeply. My boyfriends great loves are work and alcohol.

[AMJ]

Is that similar to commitment phobic? I know about that type! I think I read Men Who Can't Love 3x, probably twice in a week and then once again a few months later. Other than the ridiculously cheesy self help title, it was really helpful and you'll probably find a lot of similarities to your BF in there.

[SpringAngel83]

Is that similar to commitment phobic? I know about that type! I think I read Men Who Can't Love 3x, probably twice in a week and then once again a few months later. Other than the ridiculously cheesy self help title, it was really helpful and you'll probably find a lot of similarities to your BF in there.

 

Thank you AMJ! I'll check it out. Yes it's similar. It's fear of intimacy... shutting down/sabotaging when people get too close.

[joyful]

Thank you AMJ! I'll check it out. Yes it's similar. It's fear of intimacy... shutting down/sabotaging when people get too close.

 

Fatal Attachment: When the Anxious Meet the Avoidant

[SpringAngel83]

Fatal Attachment: When the Anxious Meet the Avoidant

 

Wow. Really good article.

 

This sucks. There's really no fixing this.

[lana-banana]

I thought you'd already broken up with him per your previous thread? If not, you need to. He's been very clear that he doesn't want to marry you or have children with you, and you can't change that. You're right, it's not healthy to stay in a relationship where you don't meet each other as equals and share the same goals for the future. In a healthy relationship there isn't any pursuing or avoiding, just loving and communicating. A guy who would rather break up than get married is not doing either.

[newheart]

SpringAngel,

 

I am very sorry you are going through this. I highly recommend the book Attached by Levine and Heller.

 

I think my most recent relationship was with a dismissive-avoidant, and ironically, I knew about attachment styles prior to entering this relationship, already owned the book, and mistakenly thought he was secure and that I hit the jackpot.

 

I am still sorting through my feelings of my situation, but he refuses to communicate with me so ... while devastating, I guess in a sense, it will make the process easier? I don't know. I am confused too.

 

Anyway, seems like the relationship between an anxious attacher and an avoidant cannot work. I am sorry. (((hugs)))

[PrettyEmily77]

In a healthy relationship there isn't any pursuing or avoiding, just loving and communicating.

 

Yeah, I'd go with that. The pursuer / distancer dynamics, in my experience, is just another way of describing a relationship where there are major incompatibilities. Unless there is a history of either distancing or pursuing, if it's a one-off, the relationship is doomed.

 

Find someone who wants what you want and all of a sudden, you're in a secure relationship regardless of your 'attachment style'.

[VeveCakes]

Avoidants are not capable of healthy relationships. It does not mean they don't care they are just not emotionally and physically capable of being close to someone and having that caring/healthy dynamic.

 

Google the book "Attached", it will explain how your attachment style effects your relationships and why you might be attracted to avoidants.

[SpringAngel83]

I thought you'd already broken up with him per your previous thread? If not, you need to. He's been very clear that he doesn't want to marry you or have children with you, and you can't change that. You're right, it's not healthy to stay in a relationship where you don't meet each other as equals and share the same goals for the future. In a healthy relationship there isn't any pursuing or avoiding, just loving and communicating. A guy who would rather break up than get married is not doing either.

 

I did. We are breaking up. He broke down and told me I'm the best thing that's ever happened to him and all the things I've wanted to hear. Asked me for one last chance. One more month. I agreed then stumbled upon the attachment styles. Boom. All of a sudden a lot of things make sense. We aren't going to work. This is why it feels like nothing ever gets resolved. I'm trying to figure out what to do with the house and dog. I figured while he's in pursuer mode I'd ask him to read an article about dismissive-avoidants. He said it was like they wrote it about him. At least now there's an answer of what went wrong.

[SpringAngel83]

SpringAngel,

 

I am very sorry you are going through this. I highly recommend the book Attached by Levine and Heller.

 

I think my most recent relationship was with a dismissive-avoidant, and ironically, I knew about attachment styles prior to entering this relationship, already owned the book, and mistakenly thought he was secure and that I hit the jackpot.

 

I am still sorting through my feelings of my situation, but he refuses to communicate with me so ... while devastating, I guess in a sense, it will make the process easier? I don't know. I am confused too.

 

Anyway, seems like the relationship between an anxious attacher and an avoidant cannot work. I am sorry. (((hugs)))

 

I'll look at that book thanks newheart. Sorry to hear you're going through this too. It's a struggle to learn the person you love so much can't love you back. Its crazy because I've always thought I had a secure attachment style. If there's a problem, communicate and fix it, move on & grow. But in this relationship I have found a lot of anxiety trying to communicate and hitting a wall. I hope I'm not always going to be anxious in relationships now.

[salparadise]

Anyway, seems like the relationship between an anxious attacher and an avoidant cannot work.

 

Oh I don't think that's the case at all––I think anxious and avoidant can be like magnets for each other. I'm not saying it's ideal, but I bet there are a lot of couples who stay together for the long haul with this paring.

 

Obviously we'd all like to have the secure attachment style ourselves, and be coupled with someone else who is secure, but we are who we are and unless half of the population gives up completely they're going to pair up with someone. So what are the possibilities...

 

secure + secure = ideal, connected with autonomy. probably not interested in avoidant or anxious types

 

anxious + anxious = probably enmeshed and neurotic, but doable if they don't smother each other completely

 

avoidant + avoidant = not together, both running away

 

avoidant + anxious = frustrating for the anxious person, validating for the avoidant while allowing them to be mostly in control. It's the anxious person who will be more unhappy, but they're probably too anxious to leave the relationship

Edited October 7, 2016 by salparadise

[newheart]

I'll look at that book thanks newheart. Sorry to hear you're going through this too. It's a struggle to learn the person you love so much can't love you back. Its crazy because I've always thought I had a secure attachment style. If there's a problem, communicate and fix it, move on & grow. But in this relationship I have found a lot of anxiety trying to communicate and hitting a wall. I hope I'm not always going to be anxious in relationships now.

 

If you were secure before, I think with a little work you can get back there. I understand, and share, your worries though. I thought I was doing everything right for once (knowing my issues/attachment style) but still failed, so now I worry that I will have an additional layer of anxiety when I date again.

 

If you were secure, maybe it is just his avoidant style that provoked you becoming anxious, because of his distance. I think even without all the labels, it is understandable that anyone would become anxious if they lived in a constant state of uncertainty about their relationship, or the behavior of their partner was inconsistent.

[TooRational]

joyful, thanks for sharing how it feels on the avoider side. It's rare to get that. It seems to be mostly anxious people who post.

 

SpringAngel, I'm glad you got your ex to admit that he's avoidant. You got your answer. I wish I could get confirmation from my ex as well. I'm pretty certain that this was this issue in our relationship too. Ideally she'd take an attachment style test but I'm NC now so that's not gonna happen. And she would probably dismiss the idea anyway. No one like to find faults with themselves.

 

Good luck in your future relationships. Us anxious people need to find secures. Unfortunately they are mostly taken already but let's not lose hope

[joyful]

joyful, thanks for sharing how it feels on the avoider side. It's rare to get that. It seems to be mostly anxious people who post.

 

Yes, that is my sense also, which is why I tried to describe what it feels like to be the avoidant person in the relationship. Since I was a teenager, I have heard the same complaints from romantic partners: that I don't like/love them enough, that I don't integrate them into my life really, that I am emotionally inconsistent or just plain unavailable.

 

But I think it important to understand that avoidance is a stress response. And anxious partners (and possibly all partners) make avoiders feel smothered, harassed, invaded, manipulated, micromanaged, depleted in their attempts to get their needs met -- by a person who either doesn't want or doesn't feel they can meet those needs. It is actually pretty awful when you care about the person and feel like it is your job to give them what they want but can't.

 

The lack of appropriate relationship skills (negotiating intimacy and autonomy) makes this dynamic pretty negative and miserable for both parties.

Edited October 7, 2016 by joyful

[TooRational]

Stress response, interesting. The very last weekend before our breakup, my ex wanted to spend it without me. She said that she needed a break from the stress. It was stressful for her to always have to consider me when she planned her time. She would fear that I might react negatively if she chose not to spend as much time with me as I deemed enough. That was a justified fear I might add, as I did sometimes resort to protest behaviors when she was pulling away too much. I'm not proud of that but my needs were not met.

 

I can kinda understand her reaction. On the other hand, to me, considering my partner feelings and desires when making decisions was not a burden or stressful. It was just a natural thing to do.

 

My avoidant ex didn't miss me even after several days not together. She said that she's just built that way. She also doesn't miss her daughter when she's with her dad and it took her a while before bonding with her daughter. Is that also typical avoidant behavior?

[SpringAngel83]

Stress response, interesting. The very last weekend before our breakup, my ex wanted to spend it without me. She said that she needed a break from the stress. It was stressful for her to always have to consider me when she planned her time. She would fear that I might react negatively if she chose not to spend as much time with me as I deemed enough. That was a justified fear I might add, as I did sometimes resort to protest behaviors when she was pulling away too much. I'm not proud of that but my needs were not met.

 

I can kinda understand her reaction. On the other hand, to me, considering my partner feelings and desires when making decisions was not a burden or stressful. It was just a natural thing to do.

 

My avoidant ex didn't miss me even after several days not together. She said that she's just built that way. She also doesn't miss her daughter when she's with her dad and it took her a while before bonding with her daughter. Is that also typical avoidant behavior?

 

I can totally relate to this. My boyfriend would be gone out of town all week for work and I wouldn't hear a thing from him. Then when he got home he'd nonchalantly say hey babe when he saw me but not even give me eye contact our hug me. I'd get mad like why don't you care that we haven't seen or talked to each other in a week?! Don't you want to reconnect?!!

 

That's just him. Also he's getting a promotion at work where he's going to be traveling 75% of the time. Now that I understand this attachment theory thing I know we wouldn't be able to keep the communication alive that I would need to feel comfortable with this. I'd feel even less connected. It'll probably be great for him as a single man.

[joyful]

I am very bonded with my child, and that sometimes feels like the only bond (along with other family) that has taken deep and permanent hold inside of me.

 

Romantic bonds are very different. Things start out exciting and I seem (and feel) all in, but then I can't sustain it. I start hiding away bits of myself just for myself. It's almost like I am a rebellious teenager and the partner is my neurotic and overbearing mom.

 

And the way people try to get me (avoidant partners) to be more consistent and present is with complaining, score-keeping. It really is like you have accumulated all of this relationship debt for agreeing to be with the person. It just doesn't feel good.