For all the dudes online who are just looking for nookie

[fenix]

So women are stupid if they do not have a conversation with you to ask you why you are dating them... Right. Gottcha.

 

You didn't answer my question. Do YOU ever bring up that "what are we" conversation or do you just treat them as though they are stupid because they believe that you have an interest in them other than sex because you also use them for entertainment rather than sit in front of the TV...

 

You are avoiding my question. Its all very good and well claiming that if they do not ask then it is their own fault for assuming that you actually want to date them or have an interest in them.

 

But what do YOU do to ensure that they are in fact OK with casual sex?

 

With holding information like that is just as bad as telling fibs. Its deceiving them and given the full facts I bet most you have slept with would not have done so.

 

That is like sleeping with someone when you know you have an STD but saying that is OK because obviously they were OK with it or they would have asked if you had one first.

 

You are making excuses for your own really bad behaviour here... I don't know what is worse. That you behave so badly or that you in your own mind consider it perfectly acceptable to use people like this and then continue on to try and manipulate the situation so that you come out as the "good guy".

 

Men like you are the reason why so many others really great men struggle and get no where. You are the reason why so many women start with holding sex and affection. You are the reason why many fantastic and wonderful women simply take themselves off the market and remain alone.

 

You purposefully destroy the trust in those you "date"/ "casually shag with out their knowledge that that is all it is" so you can poke your penis into some strange and not have to bother paying for it.

 

Like it or not - that is EXACTLY what you are doing. You may wish to pretty it up and pass the buck and the blame onto others but that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

 

Sex is a two way street which is why each party involved in the act should behave appropriately and treat their partners with dignity and grace. Neither of which you are doing before you go on to blame these women for being naive because you can't just open your mouth and be honest.

 

Time to take responsibility for your actions. You are treating these women despicably.

I don't see how is Enigma's work to bring up the "what we are"conversation because that is not of importance for him, if that is of importance for the girls then they should be bringing that question to the table... Or for you are women just passive beings who can't stand by themselves and let clear to the male counterpart their intentions?

If a woman would say to Enigma that she is only interested in relationship and he would mislead her in any way I would agree with you but if she is not asking I don't know why Enigma has to give an answer for a non question!

[VeveCakes]

I always ask guys what their intentions are....they always say "to meet someone and hopefully get into a serious relationship down the road"....

 

every single time....then imagine when they act like they are all about you....then poof....

[Toodaloo]

I don't see how is Enigma's work to bring up the "what we are"conversation because that is not of importance for him, if that is of importance for the girls then they should be bringing that question to the table... Or for you are women just passive beings who can't stand by themselves and let clear to the male counterpart their intentions?

If a woman would say to Enigma that she is only interested in relationship and he would mislead her in any way I would agree with you but if she is not asking I don't know why Enigma has to give an answer for a non question!

 

I am not "passive", I ask the questions. However if a man is taking me out on dates and showing interest it is a clear indication that they are interested in me. To behave in this way is deceitful. To then back track and say its all the woman's fault is even worse. It shows a complete lack of morals, honesty and decency. If Enigma is being so "honest" in his actions then what is wrong with simply asking the question to ensure that these women are respected and able to make fully informed decisions?

 

Now I am discovering that some men are very happy to be deceitful and act in one way to gain the benefits that are due to men with other, more appropriate intentions.

 

What is wrong with saying "I only want casual - are you OK with that?" just to be sure that the girl you have been taking out on dates and courting is in actual fact on the same page as you. I would have FAR more respect for the man that allows me to make my own full informed decision about what happens with my body. The man that deliberately hides that he is not all that interested but fancies a bit of fun to get that fun? He is not worth one second of my time or consideration let alone the opening of my legs.

 

Its called consideration for your fellow human being.

 

I get the impression that despite having no interests in these women they are being lead on.

 

I say exactly what Veve quotes because that is my intention. If however I do not have any interest in a guy and so not see it going further I break it off. I normally know this BEFORE sex.

[fenix]

I always ask guys what their intentions are....they always say "to meet someone and hopefully get into a serious relationship down the road"....

 

every single time....then imagine when they act like they are all about you....then poof....

 

That is a total different story of the one discussed above. I think that guys who lie about their intentions are a fraud and is a shame but I guess sometimes you just should not make it that easy and the ones who are there for the sex definitely will disappear... the other side of the story are women who want to get commitment from men through sex... that is a losing case...

[SwordofFlame]

I always ask guys what their intentions are....they always say "to meet someone and hopefully get into a serious relationship down the road"....

 

every single time....then imagine when they act like they are all about you....then poof....

 

That's the problem with asking the question. People can lie, deceive, people can change their minds at literally any time.

[fenix]

I am not "passive", I ask the questions. However if a man is taking me out on dates and showing interest it is a clear indication that they are interested in me. To behave in this way is deceitful. To then back track and say its all the woman's fault is even worse. It shows a complete lack of morals, honesty and decency. If Enigma is being so "honest" in his actions then what is wrong with simply asking the question to ensure that these women are respected and able to make fully informed decisions?

 

Now I am discovering that some men are very happy to be deceitful and act in one way to gain the benefits that are due to men with other, more appropriate intentions.

 

What is wrong with saying "I only want casual - are you OK with that?" just to be sure that the girl you have been taking out on dates and courting is in actual fact on the same page as you. I would have FAR more respect for the man that allows me to make my own full informed decision about what happens with my body. The man that deliberately hides that he is not all that interested but fancies a bit of fun to get that fun? He is not worth one second of my time or consideration let alone the opening of my legs.

 

Its called consideration for your fellow human being.

 

I get the impression that despite having no interests in these women they are being lead on.

 

I say exactly what Veve quotes because that is my intention. If however I do not have any interest in a guy and so not see it going further I break it off. I normally know this BEFORE sex.

I completely disagree with you.

In my times I loved dating and I thought dating was fun, I assumed it was fun for the ladies too. Did it mean that I wanted a relationship with those women? Definitely not, at least not with most of them. I wanted to have a fun date and if that leaded to sex, it would not be me the one who say no...

Was it my role to tell to a woman that there would probably not be a second date? Well I even didn't know how I would feel about that the day after so why would I destroy my options... but if any of them would ask (and many did) I would be completely honest with them.

 

Asking men to say to the women at the beginning of the dates that they only want to have fun is like asking women to say at they beginning of the date if they are going to have sex that date or not...

I don't think the ladies know what they are going to do at that moment and most men probably don't do either...

 

I don't see why the burden of the awkwardness of making such an statement falls under men responsibility, I actually think that the one that wants to prevent to be hurt is the one that needs to ask the question...

 

Don't make anyone else responsible of how you feel about something... if you are in doubt about someone else intentions... ask!

[Toodaloo]

That is a total different story of the one discussed above. I think that guys who lie about their intentions are a fraud and is a shame but I guess sometimes you just should not make it that easy and the ones who are there for the sex definitely will disappear... the other side of the story are women who want to get commitment from men through sex... that is a losing case...

 

The question above is simply does he ever bring up the subject himself? I am not asking if he is lying - I am asking if he is being fully honest and truthful.

 

Its not rocket science.

 

Does he ever check with the women he is having casual sex with that they are also on the same page?

 

Have you considered that these women want to get to know men like Enigma more and see sex as a part of that growing to know each other rather than using it as a bargaining chip?

 

Had those women known it was casual only many would have walked away.

 

By with holding full facts Enigma is being dishonest.

 

If a doctor told you that you have an infection and you need to have your leg chopped off. You would be pretty annoyed if the full truth was you have an infection and we will have to chop your leg off... unless we give you these wonderful antibiotics that will clear it up in no time... Same difference.

 

Enigma is actively with holding information that would allow these women to make a fully informed decision under the guise of "well they didn't ask so I am not going to tell"...

[Toodaloo]

I completely disagree with you.

In my times I loved dating and I thought dating was fun, I assumed it was fun for the ladies too. Did it mean that I wanted a relationship with those women? Definitely not, at least not with most of them. I wanted to have a fun date and if that leaded to sex, it would not be me the one who say no...

Was it my role to tell to a woman that there would probably not be a second date? Well I even didn't know how I would feel about that the day after so why would I destroy my options... but if any of them would ask (and many did) I would be completely honest with them.

 

Asking men to say to the women at the beginning of the dates that they only want to have fun is like asking women to say at they beginning of the date if they are going to have sex that date or not...

I don't think the ladies know what they are going to do at that moment and most men probably don't do either...

 

I don't see why the burden of the awkwardness of making such an statement falls under men responsibility, I actually think that the one that wants to prevent to be hurt is the one that needs to ask the question...

 

Don't make anyone else responsible of how you feel about something... if you are in doubt about someone else intentions... ask!

 

Talk about passing the buck.

 

Talk about refusing to take responsibility for your actions... very poor show.

[xxoo]

The problem I see is assuming that the women know it's a hookup and are ok with that without communicating that it is a hookup.

 

If you want to hookup without the discussion, fine. Go for it. But then don't claim to know that the women were ok with a hookup. You don't know that, because you never asked.

[fenix]

Talk about passing the buck.

 

Talk about refusing to take responsibility for your actions... very poor show.

Exactly!! You ladies are gong to the sack with those guys and you are taking no responsibility on that at all... If you have doubts about those guys intentions ask! If you just assume then don't complain... you can't blame others for the decisions you take!! So you decide to sleepw with a guy and since it didn't end up like you wanted is the guy fault... .... is this a adults issue or do we need to treat women as children who don't know what they are doing?

 

The problem I see is assuming that the women know it's a hookup and are ok with that without communicating that it is a hookup.

 

If you want to hookup without the discussion, fine. Go for it. But then don't claim to know that the women were ok with a hookup. You don't know that, because you never asked.

 

Same thing the other side... assuming that a guy wants a relationship doesn't mean he wants it... If a woman has sex with a guy willingly without stabilizing any kind of relationship rules first...is by definition agreeing to a hookup...

[Toodaloo]

Exactly!! You ladies are gong to the sack with those guys and you are taking no responsibility on that at all... If you have doubts about those guys intentions ask! If you just assume then don't complain... you can't blame others for the decisions you take!! So you decide to sleepw with a guy and since it didn't end up like you wanted is the guy fault... .... is this a adults issue or do we need to treat women as children who don't know what they are doing?

 

Same thing the other side... assuming that a guy wants a relationship doesn't mean he wants it... If a woman has sex with a guy willingly without stabilizing any kind of relationship rules first...is by definition agreeing to a hookup...

 

Still trying to blame women for your intentional with holding of the truth...

 

You do realise that "alpha" males also consider this behaviour to be pretty disgusting don't you... I have spoken to the guys in the office and they are all with me 110% on this.

 

I have been taking notes though and believe you me I honestly want to thank you because you have given me tips on how to avoid men like you... Whats the point in a "one hit wonder" who can't follow through to more? The answer to that is none.

 

I take responsibility for my actions and the men I sleep with. I guess that is part of being adult.

[fenix]

Still trying to blame women for your intentional with holding of the truth...

 

You do realise that "alpha" males also consider this behaviour to be pretty disgusting don't you... I have spoken to the guys in the office and they are all with me 110% on this.

 

I have been taking notes though and believe you me I honestly want to thank you because you have given me tips on how to avoid men like you... Whats the point in a "one hit wonder" who can't follow through to more? The answer to that is none.

 

I take responsibility for my actions and the men I sleep with. I guess that is part of being adult.

Still trying to blame others for your wrong assumptions... you are an adult, if you have doubts ask ...

I am happy if talking with me has been of any help ... The right woman finally got me and I am happily married for almost 20 years.

By the way, I almost crack myself out with the alpha male comment ...so naive!

[xxoo]

 

 

 

Same thing the other side... assuming that a guy wants a relationship doesn't mean he wants it... If a woman has sex with a guy willingly without stabilizing any kind of relationship rules first...is by definition agreeing to a hookup...

 

Yes, it's just as absurd as the woman assuming the man wants a relationship without talking about it. Both assumptions are foolish.

 

Nativity goes both ways. Know better, do better.

[katiegrl]

Yes, it's just as absurd as the woman assuming the man wants a relationship without talking about it. Both assumptions are foolish.

 

.

 

This^^.

 

Bottom line, and mentioned earlier, NO ONE truly knows what the h*** they want in those early stages. As attested by joseb (on another thread), enigma, jerk, and many others....including myself.

 

The guy who thinks he only wants casual, may end up wanting a relationship *with her.*

 

The guy who's thinks he wants a relationship, may end up only wanting casual *with her.

 

You gotta spend some time together to know what you want! Sex or no sex!!

 

DO NOT assume to know what the other wants. That is wrong. Especially on those early dates.

 

People can change their minds... and often do! Men AND women!

 

I have ... my ex did. And many others.

 

If a woman (or man) is concerned that he/she is being *used* (which is such a juvenile way to describe, what are you in high school?)..then you have a mouth, speak up and ask!

 

Or wait to have sex till you gain more clarity via his ACTIONS.

 

We are grown ups. We each need to take responsibility for what happens to us in our own life.

 

To blame others for our own inability/failure to take responsibility for our own decisions and the outcome of those decisions... is so wrong on so many levels.

 

That said, if there is *intentional* deception going on, like a guy (or girl) knowing 200%, without a doubt he ONLY wants casual, *but after the woman asks*, tells her he wants a relationship, that is wrong!

 

Rant over. Nuff said from me.

Edited October 7, 2016 by katiegrl

[fenix]

Yes, it's just as absurd as the woman assuming the man wants a relationship without talking about it. Both assumptions are foolish.

 

Nativity goes both ways. Know better, do better.

 

Well I always assumed they were happy with the hookup and it was not a problem for me, if it was a problem for them, well they should have asked...

[katiegrl]

Well I always assumed they were happy with the hookup and it was not a problem for me, if it was a problem for them, well they should have asked...

 

Do not assume anything.

 

You shouldn't assume she wants hook up, and she shouldn't assume you want relationship.

 

Just date, have fun, enjoy getting to know. See where it leads!

 

You may be surprised!

 

If one or the other isn't comfortable having sex without more certainty of what it means, or *where it's going**...then wait to have sex until you gain more clarity.

 

It shouldn't be this complicated!

Edited October 7, 2016 by katiegrl

[xxoo]

Well I always assumed they were happy with the hookup and it was not a problem for me, if it was a problem for them, well they should have asked...

 

Yes, but now that you understand the confusion it can cause for the woman who assumed that four dates means "dating", can you see how communication would be better?

 

I believe men intentionally don't bring it up because part of them knows the woman thinks it is more than a hookup. A lot of guys do bring it up because they don't want to lead women on.

[katiegrl]

Yes, but now that you understand the confusion it can cause for the woman who assumed that four dates means "dating", can you see how communication would be better?

 

I believe men intentionally don't bring it up because part of them knows the woman thinks it is more than a hookup. A lot of guys do bring it up because they don't want to lead women on.

 

Yes communication would be best, but what about the woman communcating?

 

Is she not capable of communcating what she wants?

 

Or asking the man what he wants?

 

I don't get why she believes the onus is always on him?

 

Maybe he doesn't know what he wants *with her* yet!

 

It has only been a few dates for heaven's sake.

 

If she is concerned, or afraid to communicate about it, then wait to have sex!

 

Uncertainty in the early stages is a given.

 

If one cannot handle, they have no business dating imo.

 

There are never any guarantees. Ever.

 

It's all a risk. All of it!

[xxoo]

Yes communication would be best, but what about the woman communcating?

 

Yes, of course.

 

If a woman were making the excuse, I'd tell her to communicate.

 

When a man is making the excuse, I tell him to communicate.

 

Neither is excused by assuming.

[Toodaloo]

My gripe is NOT about a person changing their mind.

 

My gripe is NOT about a person who thinks they want to pursue something more who then decides that they are not the person for them.

 

That is not what my gripe is about.

 

My gripe is about a man who decides on date one that he does not want more than casual. Continuing to date a woman and leading her to believe that he wants more through his actions because its better than sitting at home on the x box. Shagging her, dumping her or dating others at the same time with out telling her and leading her to believe that it is her fault because she didn't ask.

 

If his actions suggest he wants more then he is misleading her by not speaking up.

 

I guess its just what people consider moral or not. Personally I couldn't abuse a persons trust like that NOR could I take advantage of them like that.

 

I am learning that peoples morals are far lower than my own these days. Its pretty disappointing to be honest.

[katiegrl]

My gripe is NOT about a person changing their mind.

 

My gripe is NOT about a person who thinks they want to pursue something more who then decides that they are not the person for them.

 

That is not what my gripe is about.

 

My gripe is about a man who decides on date one that he does not want more than casual. Continuing to date a woman and leading her to believe that he wants more through his actions because its better than sitting at home on the x box. Shagging her, dumping her or dating others at the same time with out telling her and leading her to believe that it is her fault because she didn't ask.

 

If his actions suggest he wants more then he is misleading her by not speaking up.

 

I guess its just what people consider moral or not. Personally I couldn't abuse a persons trust like that NOR could I take advantage of them like that.

 

I am learning that peoples morals are far lower than my own these days. Its pretty disappointing to be honest.

 

Fair enough, but define "his actions.". It has only been a couple of dates.

 

Asking her out, buying her dinner?

 

He is attracted to her. Why shouldn't he do these things?

 

Maybe he just wants to date her for awhile to see where it will lead.

 

All men want sex early on. And most will push for it.

 

That does not mean that is *all* they want.

 

That said ...I agree with you about this.

 

If he knows without a doubt, 100% that he will *never ever* under any circumstance, want a relationship with her, then yeah he should tell her that, regardless of sex and regardless of whether or not she asks.

 

But most guys just don't know that early on, nor do many women.

 

So they say nothing, date awhile, have sex if both are open to it, and see where it will lead.

 

That has been my experience anyway.

[Art_Critic]

For all the dudes online who are just looking for nookie

This is something else other than nookie men should be looking for ?

 

Just the fact that women have it, men don't and it's up to us to figure out how to get it.. that alone sets up the scenario that men are after it...

 

I have to admit, if nookie wasn't part of dating.. (when I was single of course) I would have rather gone to the mountains to the cabin by myself or worked on that new piece of furniture downstairs in the woodshop than date and not have sex...

 

There are men out there that ONLY want the ONS, it's up to you to figure out which guy to trust...

[fenix]

This is something else other than nookie men should be looking for ?

 

Just the fact that women have it, men don't and it's up to us to figure out how to get it.. that alone sets up the scenario that men are after it...

 

I have to admit, if nookie wasn't part of dating.. (when I was single of course) I would have rather gone to the mountains to the cabin by myself or worked on that new piece of furniture downstairs in the woodshop than date and not have sex...

 

There are men out there that ONLY want the ONS, it's up to you to figure out which guy to trust...

 

Exactly this!!!

[xxoo]

This is something else other than nookie men should be looking for ?

 

Just the fact that women have it, men don't and it's up to us to figure out how to get it.. that alone sets up the scenario that men are after it...

 

I have to admit, if nookie wasn't part of dating.. (when I was single of course) I would have rather gone to the mountains to the cabin by myself or worked on that new piece of furniture downstairs in the woodshop than date and not have sex...

 

There are men out there that ONLY want the ONS, it's up to you to figure out which guy to trust...

 

Wait...what is nookie?

 

I thought it was sex?

[Imajerk17]

So, I keep reading this idea and I've been ignoring it but I can't ignore it any longer. I'm not trying to stomp out all casual sex. And I fully take ownership of my actions, and my decisions, about what I do, who I have sex with and when. And that's not really what I was trying to talk about here.

 

What I meant for this to be about, is that it does not feel great when men make assumptions or have expectations that I'm okay with having sex with them, or sexting, even before I know them at all. It feels cheap and degrading. Personally I think it's rude and lacking of common sense and decency.

In trying to understand why this keeps happening, I'm hoping to figure out how to avoid it.

 

I'm not talking about going out with a guy, having a good time, and then deciding to have sex with him that night or the next Tuesday. Who cares about that? That's all fine and normal.

 

The crude jackasses will keep doing that because that is just how they roll. It probably has nothing to do with you. You are best to cut them off as soon as they show you what they are about. Which it sounds that you are doing.

 

As for the question as to how you can better recognize the jackasses BEFORE you start communicating with them so you can screen out the jerks and screen in the more intentional guys, that is quite an interesting question. But it is also tough for us to answer, because we don't see your profile nor do we see whom you are deciding to write back.

 

The one suggestion that you *have* gotten (given by a few people) is to give those that clearly put more thought into their profile more of a chance. And to search on the paid sites. It's not an ironclad rule by any means, but those who are willing to invest more (both money to be on the site AND time and energy towards writing a good profile) tend to be looking for something more serious, whereas those who write a cliche-filled blurb on a free site are more likely to just be "throwing strands of spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks".

Edited October 7, 2016 by Imajerk17