spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) hi hi. finally my first post after about a year of voracious reading here. i have noticed that one of the common denominators of affairs is how both men and women talk to their AP of how bad / unhappy / horrible / dead their marriage is. what do you make of the AP who doesn't do that? mine never did, and neither did i. it was a silent understanding that we just didn't talk about our spouses and never did other than passing mentions and when it was needed (husband coming come, wife traveling, etc.) not once do i remember him saying anything bad about his wife or marriage other than a couple of times he mentioned they were arguing. and also, there was not really future-faking. sure, we would talk about how it would be to have a life together but no promises were made; there was no talk about leaving marriages until i decided to leave mine. i just told him, didn't discuss it with him until i had made up my own mind. looking forward to your responses, thanks in advance. Edited October 3, 2016 by spideywoman
Midwestmissy Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) So what was the point of your affair? What did you get out of it if you weren't unhappy? Have you gotten down to the reason you did it? How long did it last? Regrets? Dday? Interrogation over, sorry, just genuinely curious. My wh didn't say I was horrible and swore he wasn't leaving me, but he did just drop just enough info to elicit pity, judging by what I read. He also reinforced his stories with his family and other coworkers - it was cuckoo pants to read about me in the ways he described me. He wasn't cheating because he was a hot mess, he was cheating because he was married to a hot mess. Of course, I was a hot mess because he was cheating, lying, disappearing, texting, etc. And he ran to her for support of this horrible ordeal. She bad mouthed her bh - pot smoking, didn't make enough money, dreaming, lazy - he was a teacher who got home from work every day to take care of their 4 boys. She was exhausted by being around only men at home - so bring another one into your life! Her bh was also one of her om in another one of her marriages. They each spent 20 hrs a day away from their families telling each other oh so subtly how bad their home life was. Smh. He claims he never gave her bh a thought at all, other than not wanting her to leave him and complicate his life. Still smh. And who was the hot mess in this story? Oh yeah. Edited October 3, 2016 by Midwestmissy Clarity 2
road Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 hi hi. finally my first post after about a year of voracious reading here. i have noticed that one of the common denominators of affairs is how both men and women talk to their AP of how bad / unhappy / horrible / dead their marriage is. what do you make of the AP who doesn't do that? mine never did, and neither did i. it was a silent understanding that we just didn't talk about our spouses and never did other than passing mentions and when it was needed (husband coming come, wife traveling, etc.) not once do i remember him saying anything bad about his wife or marriage other than a couple of times he mentioned they were arguing. and also, there was not really future-faking. sure, we would talk about how it would be to have a life together but no promises were made; there was no talk about leaving marriages until i decided to leave mine. i just told him, didn't discuss it with him until i had made up my own mind. looking forward to your responses, thanks in advance. The "trash talk" about the BS is how the AP's justify their cheating is ok. Though first it sets the stage to find a common ground to start an affair relationship, something to talk about and share. You have to chat him/her up to get a relationship going. Simplified example to get laid that works: OM: my wife won't put out (often a lie) OW: my husband beats me (often a lie) OM/OW (does not matter who asks first): let's bang OM/OW: yes, let's bang Simplified example that does not work: OM: let's bang OW: eeew creep get lost You and your MM did not talk about your BS's because your are both JEDI masters at compartmentalizing things in your brains. So you and your MM did not need the continuing false justification to keep having sex. 4
road Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 So what was the point of your affair? What did you get out of it if you weren't unhappy? Have you gotten down to the reason you did it? How long did it last? Regrets? Dday? Interrogation over, sorry, just genuinely curious. My wh didn't say I was horrible and swore he wasn't leaving me, but he did just drop just enough info to elicit pity, judging by what I read. He also reinforced his stories with his family and other coworkers - it was cuckoo pants to read about me in the ways he described me. He wasn't cheating because he was a hot mess, he was cheating because he was married to a hot mess. Of course, I was a hot mess because he was cheating, lying, disappearing, texting, etc. And he ran to her for support of this horrible ordeal. She bad mouthed her bh - pot smoking, didn't make enough money, dreaming, lazy - he was a teacher who got home from work every day to take care of their 4 boys. She was exhausted by being around only men at home - so bring another one into your life! Her bh was also one of her om in another one of her marriages. They each spent 20 hrs a day away from their families telling each other oh so subtly how bad their home life was. Smh. He claims he never gave her bh a thought at all, other than not wanting her to leave him and complicate his life. Still smh. And who was the hot mess in this story? Oh yeah. SMH? English please.
goodyblue Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Yes, we talked about his ex all the time, mostly making plans for him to leave and why. But in my case it all turned out to be true. Still a bad reason to have an affair.
imperfectangel Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 No we never talked about it unless absolutely necessary. If he ever did moan about her I'd quickly change the subject
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 So what was the point of your affair? What did you get out of it if you weren't unhappy? Have you gotten down to the reason you did it? How long did it last? Regrets? Dday? Interrogation over, sorry, just genuinely curious. Hi Midwestmissy and thank you. No worries _ happy to answer for what it's worth. The affair lasted for a year or so. I think ultimately the point of it turned out to be to end my marriage. I was very unhappy in it and the affair kind of served to shine a spotlight on it and what was going wrong _ I had an idea, but was ignoring it. I told my husband I wanted to separate about six months into the affair. Not for my AP or with the hope that he and I would be together, but for myself and for my husband as well. I was unhappy, he was unhappy as it turned out and well, I fell in love with another man. Being in love with someone else (even if temporary) while married to another just doesn't work, to state the obvious. I was, for the most part, quite happy in the affair. It fed and fulfilled me in many, many ways. As for why I chose to have an affair with a MM _ that's a work in progress. I have been in therapy for quite a while and have started to answer those questions. I don't have them all and probably won't have them all for a while, but the puzzle is slowly coming together. There was no Dday. Regrets? Yes and no. That's a whole other post altogether. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
imsosad Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 He did, I hardly did. He told me plenty about his W and their relationship. He also shared personal details about her, such as issues with her mother, problems at work. He said some nice things about her and many bad. I didn't mind the nice things, but I disliked negative comments and personal information. I see it as raitonalisation / justification for the A, and/or another manifestation of bad boundries. I guess in some cases it's a sob story designed to manipulate the OW. Maybe you and your AP are on the same page regarding the A. Is it strictly PA or is there an emotional attachment? In your heart, are you hoping he ends his marriage so you can be together? Or maybe for you,it was an exit affair?
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 The "trash talk" about the BS is how the AP's justify their cheating is ok. Though first it sets the stage to find a common ground to start an affair relationship, something to talk about and share. You have to chat him/her up to get a relationship going. Simplified example to get laid that works: OM: my wife won't put out (often a lie) OW: my husband beats me (often a lie) OM/OW (does not matter who asks first): let's bang OM/OW: yes, let's bang Simplified example that does not work: OM: let's bang OW: eeew creep get lost You and your MM did not talk about your BS's because your are both JEDI masters at compartmentalizing things in your brains. So you and your MM did not need the continuing false justification to keep having sex. Thank you _ makes sense. Neither one of us set out to have an affair. We work together (still do) and there were plenty of opportunities to talk since we have to work together on almost every project we have. One thing led to another and neither one us stopped it.
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 He did, I hardly did. He told me plenty about his W and their relationship. He also shared personal details about her, such as issues with her mother, problems at work. He said some nice things about her and many bad. I didn't mind the nice things, but I disliked negative comments and personal information. I see it as raitonalisation / justification for the A, and/or another manifestation of bad boundries. I guess in some cases it's a sob story designed to manipulate the OW. Maybe you and your AP are on the same page regarding the A. Is it strictly PA or is there an emotional attachment? In your heart, are you hoping he ends his marriage so you can be together? Or maybe for you,it was an exit affair? hi and thank you for your input. as someone else pointed out _ justification. with all the additional implications of an affair of which he and i were fully aware, i didn't feel the need to justify anything and i don't think he did, either. we both knew very well what we were doing and yes, i believe we are / were on the same page. there's an incredibly strong emotional attachment. we had both fallen in love with each other. it's over for now. i say for now because i don't know what to do and i have no doubt he'll be coming around again. if i must be honest, yes, there's a part of me that wishes he would end his marriage. i feel very torn with all the emotions i am going through.
Confused9999 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 I never trash talked my BW and my OW never trash talked her BH. We compartmentalized well I guess. We didn't even talk much about our future either until just before the end. We worked together so we had a lot of other stuff to talk about.
imsosad Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Spideywoman, I am also going through a divorce, so I really feel for you. I know how confusing and overwhelming it can get. Do you have children? My advice to you is to take it slow and be aware that emotions run high,but that doesnt mean you have to act upon them,or that they have deep meaning. I say that because I experienced waves of conflicting emotions, it can mess with your head. Try to stay grounded. I wish you the best of luck going forward.
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Spideywoman, I am also going through a divorce, so I really feel for you. I know how confusing and overwhelming it can get. Do you have children? My advice to you is to take it slow and be aware that emotions run high,but that doesnt mean you have to act upon them,or that they have deep meaning. I say that because I experienced waves of conflicting emotions, it can mess with your head. Try to stay grounded. I wish you the best of luck going forward. Thanks for letting me know, imsosad, and for your good wishes. Gratefully I have no children. We have a dog _ shared custody but mostly lives with my husband since my job is unpredictable, to say the least. Yea, the emotions are nuts. Luckily I am not one to act on them without a lot of thought so most of the time I just sit with them and wait for the storm to pass and reevaluate when I am feeling less vulnerable and unhinged. And boy oh boy are they conflicting and contradictory, like you say. It'll get better, eventually.
Grapesofwrath Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 xMM did not speak ill of his wife. He told me there were "no deficiences" in his marriage and that things at home were great. This was where I really learned that actions speak louder than words. His actions showed me what he really thought about his wife and marriage. He spent the night in the city 2-3 times per week, with me. He would phone home every night, talk to her and the kids, then get off the call and come back in the room to pick up right where we left off. Sometimes we were doing normal "couple" things like watching a baseball game, a movie, snuggling on the couch, out for dinner, whatever. I'm sure he ended all of those calls by telling her he loved her. He didn't have to say anything negative about her. His actions told me what he was really about. Honestly, I think what he did is worse. 1
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 xMM did not speak ill of his wife. He told me there were "no deficiences" in his marriage and that things at home were great. This was where I really learned that actions speak louder than words. His actions showed me what he really thought about his wife and marriage. He spent the night in the city 2-3 times per week, with me. He would phone home every night, talk to her and the kids, then get off the call and come back in the room to pick up right where we left off. Sometimes we were doing normal "couple" things like watching a baseball game, a movie, snuggling on the couch, out for dinner, whatever. I'm sure he ended all of those calls by telling her he loved her. He didn't have to say anything negative about her. His actions told me what he was really about. Honestly, I think what he did is worse. Ha. This struck a chord. Very true. He and his wife live in different countries (though very close geographically.) And they had some sort of standing 'date' to speak late at nights. And there were times we would make plans to spend the night together. He wouldn't arrive until well after the phone call _ I always thought he would spend some time alone, regrouping, wrapping his head around what he was doing. He would rarely take calls while with me _ though even if he did I wouldn't understand most of it since they speak their own language (foreign.) In any case, yea, actions speak louder than words. Applies to both me and him of course. I wasn't kind to my husband, either, during this time, to say the least.
Chica80 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Hi Spidey to answer your question MM has never said anything bad about his wife. He stated he loved her. Whenever I asked him then why would he do this get involved in A, his answer was and still is I don't know. Nothing is missing for him. He was not married yet when A started. As for myself. Yes I talked about my BH about my marriage. I was unhappy I wanted something different. We had tried counseling before. I had gone to my own individual counseling. Divorce was not an option. About a year and a half before My A I had told H I wanted out. That I was done. I had said this before, he told me if I wanted out that I could leave but I would not have my children. That he would never allow that. So I stayed. Our issues never resolved would only get swept, and promises of change that didn't happen. One day H and I got into on our fights, and that was it I was done. I started A. There was no going back for me that was the end. I told H I was done. This went on for almost a year. I told him about AP. I told him I was in love with someone else. We weren't together (AP and I) but I did not want to be with him anymore. Ultimately I left. Filed for divorce.
rainbowsandkittens Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 My xAP told me a bunch of bad stuff about his partner in the beginning. I guess to hook me and also explain why he lied about being in a relationship. As time wore on he would tell me vague stuff here and there. Mostly about her being anxious or depressed if there was a "crisis." Which, given all their circumstances, totally made sense. Everything he told me sounded like normal long term relationship stuff. He once told me that I would know he only thought of me as a friend if he started really talking to me about her. He never did. His future faking was more along the lines of telling me he would come stay in my country for longer periods of time. He vaguely talked about getting married. Very subtle- I think so he could deny that he ever did it. He liked to say he was always very clear with me.
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Hi Spidey to answer your question MM has never said anything bad about his wife. He stated he loved her. Whenever I asked him then why would he do this get involved in A, his answer was and still is I don't know. Nothing is missing for him. He was not married yet when A started. As for myself. Yes I talked about my BH about my marriage. I was unhappy I wanted something different. We had tried counseling before. I had gone to my own individual counseling. Divorce was not an option. About a year and a half before My A I had told H I wanted out. That I was done. I had said this before, he told me if I wanted out that I could leave but I would not have my children. That he would never allow that. So I stayed. Our issues never resolved would only get swept, and promises of change that didn't happen. One day H and I got into on our fights, and that was it I was done. I started A. There was no going back for me that was the end. I told H I was done. This went on for almost a year. I told him about AP. I told him I was in love with someone else. We weren't together (AP and I) but I did not want to be with him anymore. Ultimately I left. Filed for divorce. Thank you for responding and sharing, Sunshine. This really helps. I am happy to hear you left your marriage. Very tough thing to do but it seems in your case (and mine) inevitable, for different reasons. Stay strong and thanks again. 1
Chica80 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Thank you for responding and sharing, Sunshine. This really helps. I am happy to hear you left your marriage. Very tough thing to do but it seems in your case (and mine) inevitable, for different reasons. Stay strong and thanks again. Yes. If you would like to share more or talk you can PM me. You have to post so many times before you can start messaging. I am in IC as well have been for more than a year when this all started. It has been the most helpful
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 Yes. If you would like to share more or talk you can PM me. You have to post so many times before you can start messaging. I am in IC as well have been for more than a year when this all started. It has been the most helpful Thank you and I will do when I have earned my stripes _ just started posting today, finally
Chica80 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Thank you and I will do when I have earned my stripes _ just started posting today, finally Are you still in the A? How long have you been separated? You work together?
starswewillnavigate Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 My xMM never spoke about his OH (apart from once), that's the one thing he said that he didn't feel comfortable about. I knew he was living with his partner when we met online - he was very upfront and honest about that. I remember when we first met in person and I asked him why he wanted to enter into this, he said that he wanted something outside of family life. I don't ask any questions about her or their history but I do get the impression that he's happy with her and their family. I would rather that he was to be honest, I think he would be shortchanging everyone if he was desperately unhappy. I don't want want anything more from him than what we had and he's certainly not looking to leave his relationship. Only once has he discussed her with me and that was concern about her health. He was obviously worried and needed to talk to someone but that's the only time he's ever opened up. I don't pry.
Author spideywoman Posted October 3, 2016 Author Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Are you still in the A? How long have you been separated? You work together? No, he ended it _ about two months ago. So it's not ongoing. I am bracing myself for his return (physically and emotionally.) He ended it before, and I took him back, so I'm positive he'll do the same again. We do work together. Two days after he ended it he left the country (part of the reason behind his ending it) and has been gone since. From what I understand he'll be working remotely until the beginning of the year _ which is great for me. We still have to email but I keep it to a minimum. In fact I think the number of "direct" work-related emails between us without having other people cc'd has been like two or three. I am doing good in that regard. The details, motivations, sequence of events are a mess, like every other story on here. I am still in denial and in the 'fog' and not quite ready for the LS onslaught of tough love. I hope to be soon and I'll post the whole thing when I am. Still can't PM you am waiting and I'll disclose the blow-by-blow. BTW it's getting late where I am. If I don't respond today it's because I have fallen asleep and will be back on tomorrow to check. Edited October 3, 2016 by spideywoman
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