Gigolo: The Boyfriend Experience

[SammySammy]

Gigolo: The Boyfriend Experience

 

A recent thread mentioned women paying for ... companionship. Sex. Some seem to be against it. Some are in favor of it.

 

My question is two-fold:

 

1. Is there a stigma among women toward women who may use a gigolo?

 

2. If a man had been a stripper or gigolo in his past is that something you would always want to know? Or is there a time period after which it is no longer important? Would you consider a man who had been a stripper or gigolo dating or marriage material?

[Shanex]

A friend of mine was a stripper, but there's a thin line with a gigolo, because he was never paid for sex, rather for getting naked and dancing around ladies.

 

Gigolo as male escorts..? More and more women are paying for sex, and not all being old, lonely cat ladies. The thought of having a stud in your bed for a bit instead of an aging husband who neglects you cross the mind of more housewives by the day.

[SammySammy]

When you also strip for bachelorette parties, sometimes things ... happen. During and afterwards. As a result of ... and so forth.

[Taramere]

I've never met a woman who has had anything to do with a gigolo. Not to my knowledge, anyway.

 

I'm not sure what I'd think about it. I wouldn't be disgusted or anything as extreme as that, but I think I'd probably be concerned that the relationship might be a bit fake. I'm put in mind of my hairdresser, now. He's a sweet guy. Gay, but well used to complimenting and flattering women on account of his job. I would imagine a gigolo being a more masculine heterosexual version. Nice and pleasant on a very superficial level, and certainly better than being insulted or treated poorly, but I'm not sure how possible it would be to develop genuine feeling emotional intimacy with somebody like that.

 

My hairdresser struggles, for instance, to have conversations beyond the salon small talk he's comfortable with. One to one, in social situations, he's fine so long as you're prepared to just provide a willing ear as he chatters about his romantic exploits, personal angels, spiritual guides and so on. In a group situation, though, he can sometimes turn unpleasant on account of his struggle to participate in a normal rather than over the top camp, outrageous way. It's sad, because he badly wants to be involved...but I don't think he knows quite how to contribute. So he'll tend to interrupt other people's conversations by standing up and shouting random nonsense or behaving in other bizarre attention seeking ways.

 

It s a certain type of person who I associate with z-list celeb types, reality tv show sorts, gurus, tarot card readings, people who just want to be famous for nothing in particular, entertainment industry etc etc. I would put gigolos and escorts in a similar category. Not bad people by any means. Often really sweet, charming and amusing... but when somebody's career or their goals require them to spend a lot of time flattering and kissing up to other people a lot then I think it results in them being limited in ways that are hard to describe but that can make it difficult for others to build meaningful relationships with them. And in my limited experience with people like that, when "more" is required of them - ie in terms of putting aside the bs, flattery and low level narcissism and actually being a good friend or a good partner - I think it can sometimes end up turning a bit unpleasant.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Taramere

[Haydn]

Once as a poor student.....

 

I was quite pretty.

 

 

The very thought!

[SammySammy]

I've never met a woman who has had anything to do with a gigolo. Not to my knowledge, anyway.

 

I'm not sure what I'd think about it. I wouldn't be disgusted or anything as extreme as that, but I think I'd probably be concerned that the relationship might be a bit fake. I'm put in mind of my hairdresser, now. He's a sweet guy. Gay, but well used to complimenting and flattering women on account of his job. I would imagine a gigolo being a more masculine heterosexual version. Nice and pleasant on a very superficial level, and certainly better than being insulted or treated poorly, but I'm not sure how possible it would be to develop genuine feeling emotional intimacy with somebody like that.

 

My hairdresser struggles, for instance, to have conversations beyond the salon small talk he's comfortable with. One to one, in social situations, he's fine so long as you're prepared to just provide a willing ear as he chatters about his romantic exploits, personal angels, spiritual guides and so on. In a group situation, though, he can sometimes turn unpleasant on account of his struggle to participate in a normal rather than over the top camp, outrageous way. It's sad, because he badly wants to be involved...but I don't think he knows quite how to contribute. So he'll tend to interrupt other people's conversations by standing up and shouting random nonsense or behaving in other bizarre attention seeking ways.

 

It s a certain type of person who I associate with z-list celeb types, reality tv show sorts, gurus, tarot card readings, people who just want to be famous for nothing in particular, entertainment industry etc etc. I would put gigolos and escorts in a similar category. Not bad people by any means. Often really sweet, charming and amusing... but when somebody's career or their goals require them to spend a lot of time flattering and kissing up to other people a lot then I think it results in them being limited in ways that are hard to describe but that can make it difficult for others to build meaningful relationships with them. And in my limited experience with people like that, when "more" is required of them - ie in terms of putting aside the bs, flattery and low level narcissism and actually being a good friend or a good partner - I think it can sometimes end up turning a bit unpleasant.

 

What if you found someone who was a good match for you? Someone that did have the qualities you were looking for and was capable of having a real relationship with you.

 

Would being a stripper/gigolo twenty or more years ago be a deal breaker?

 

Would not disclosing it be a deal breaker?

[Taramere]

What if you found someone who was a good match for you? Someone that did have the qualities you were looking for and was capable of having a real relationship with you.

 

Would being a stripper/gigolo twenty or more years ago be a deal breaker?

 

No, I think I would probably be pretty fascinated to hear their stories. But certainly I would want to explore that whole gigolo dynamic in some depth I think. What is going through a guy's mind when he's being an escort to a woman he really doesn't fancy, maybe finds quite obnoxious etc. How they manage those feelings. How they coped with having to pretend to be attracted to somebody they find boring, unpleasant etc.

 

The question would be whether they'd learned to wear a mask that they were never really going to be able to remove. Because I think a job like that must require a person to wear a mask. In my work, I hear all sorts of things from people...and I'd imagine that some of the conversations I have with clients wouldn't be all that different from the things escorts or gigolos hear from their lonelier or more troubled clients. So we would probably have that in common. However, I don't flatter my clients. I can't. Sometimes I have to be pretty harsh with them in my assessment of situations, and in the quest to get them to be honest with me or answer the kind of difficult questions that they'll be asked in a court situation. I don't wear a mask, because you can't have those sorts of conversations with people and wear a mask. It would be insulting to them, and they wouldn't trust me.

 

So that would be the issue. Did the person have to spend so much time wearing a mask that they're not sure how to take it off....or are frightened about what might come out if they do take it off. I mean, when you look at dating stories on here there are a lot of horror stories. People can build up a lot of hostility towards near strangers that they had dinner with, because the pressure of the dating process can be so hard to handle. The personal issues that it can tap into. So I'd definitely be very curious about how somebody who did that for a living handled that stuff.

 

Would not disclosing it be a deal breaker?[/QUOte]

 

I think people are entitled to hold back info about themselves in the early stages of dating. There's no compulsion on anybody to reveal their deepest and darkest to ever person they go on a date with. I'd expect something like that to come out fairly soon though. The longer it took for it to come out, the more I'd get the sense that there were a lot of problematic issues for them surrounding it. Whereas if somebody disclosed it early on, that would give more of a sense of them being at peace with themselves and their choices. I don't think it's an issue that would be controversial in the way something like an addiction or a criminal conviction would be controversial. I mean, it's the sort of experience that would likely be a combination of positive and negative, funny and sad etc. I would expect a person I clicked with to tell me about it fairly early on...for no real reason other than that it would likely come out in conversation, and if I'd clicked with them I'm pretty sure they'd feel comfortable about disclosing it.

 

A stripper, I kind of see that in a different light. It's a performing job where the person isn't necessarily going to have to build up any particular connection with clients. I can think of a lot of guys who, if they had the body and the extrovert personality for it, would be more than delighted to do a job like that for a while.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Taramere

[elaine567]

I think the whole male paying for sex dynamic works as men tend to like to be in control and paying a woman for sex on his terms is seen by society as more natural. The fact she may not enjoy it, or may not "fancy" him may in fact be a bit of a turn on. He is the all powerful man, she dances to his tune. There is some kudos attached to that amongst some men.

"Wife wont give me a blow job, so I pay for it, no hassle, no complications..." and other men nod sagely.

Sex tends also to be more a physical thing, he doesn't need her to care, she just needs to do it for him.

 

Whereas I think for women the situation may be a bit more complex.

Women in general like to be adored and desired. They want validation, "He wants me because I am sexy and hot."

For a woman to NEED a gigolo, she is almost saying "I am not hot, I cannot get any man to have sex with me, so I need to pay for it." There is no kudos in that.

The lack of care ie he is only doing a job, would sting too, she is not important to him, his words and actions are completely false, and I think that would bother many women too.

 

So bottom line, men mostly get a free pass by society, whereas a woman paying for sex is mostly derided, scorned and pitied.

 

As for dating an ex gigolo - probably not and for the reasons Taramere so eloquently stated.,

It is a certain type of person who I associate with z-list celeb types, reality tv show sorts, gurus, tarot card readings, people who just want to be famous for nothing in particular, entertainment industry etc etc. I would put gigolos and escorts in a similar category. Not bad people by any means. Often really sweet, charming and amusing... but when somebody's career or their goals require them to spend a lot of time flattering and kissing up to other people a lot then I think it results in them being limited in ways that are hard to describe but that can make it difficult for others to build meaningful relationships with them. And in my limited experience with people like that, when "more" is required of them - ie in terms of putting aside the bs, flattery and low level narcissism and actually being a good friend or a good partner - I think it can sometimes end up turning a bit unpleasant.

[Timshel]

MidKnight, gigolo or stripper....friends, sure. A romantic partner, no.

[Got it]

While I have no experience or friends who have done this, whatever floats your boat.

 

Dating wise, I may have an issue. I have one with women doing it as I question self worth and look at the male set in the same manner. But not sure, reality and the individual may change my thoughts on it as my opinion isn't a deep seat one.

[dreamingoftigers]

What if you found someone who was a good match for you? Someone that did have the qualities you were looking for and was capable of having a real relationship with you.

 

Would being a stripper/gigolo twenty or more years ago be a deal breaker?

 

Would not disclosing it be a deal breaker?

 

Not 20 years ago.

 

But it would definitely raise a flag.

 

5 years ago? No.

 

I just don't find pandering for p**** attractive at all.

 

I may be an outlier.

Like even musicians that sing gushy love songsseem very pandering - esqe. Male strippers outright gross me out

[SammySammy]

Interesting responses. They are pretty much what I expected though.

 

I wonder what factor plays the biggest role in making a stripper/gigolo undateable. Is it the work/sex or the perception that he's superficial and unable to have a meaningful relationship? Or something else?

[preraph]

There is a difference in the mindset of males in sex trade because they never had centuries of servitude and abuse and rape on their gender like women did. Some of them may have some childhood or later issues that led them to it, though, but it's not in their DNA. It's just something to consider.

 

I happen to know something about the subject because one guy I know tried it for awhile decades ago. He didn't set out to try it, but he was so good looking that women just would do anything to be with him. But the problem was that unless he was on a cruise or something, most of the interested people were men, not women. A client of mine lived with a male stripper for years so I heard lots of stories there too, and I worked with one at a dealership too. The issue is most strippers are gay because most of their paying clientele are gay men. But now with male strippers being popularized in movies, I imagine there are more straight guys doing it because unlike back, then, now they can just tour and put on stage shows, and never even have contact with the audience unless they want to. So I expect it's a little bit sanitized now. But there will always be drug addicts and con artists working the sex trade.

 

Dating anyone in the sex trade is very risky. In my day, when I knew that first one, it wasn't risky. But now it's deadly and you shouldn't do it. It's dangerous for them, though not as dangerous as it is for women. They are not as likely to have pimps, but it's not unheard of. So that part is better for male sex workers.

 

My sister hired one at a casino decades ago in Florida, and like many johns, she liked to imagine he actually liked her. Of course, he was only in it for the money. But she liked to imagine she was getting his respect as a person. I'm sure he couldn't have given two cents.

 

Hiring one once is at least smarter than trying to DATE one, in my opinion. I mean, it's a strictly mercenary trade, with a lot of danger, disease and addiction. But if you think any sex worker is going to perform in bed for free like they do for money, you are sadly mistaken. Retired sex workers are known to frequently announce they will never do another BJ again.

[Timshel]

Taramere's responses are in line with my own and any woman friend I know intimately enough to speak for.

 

I think that you would find similar responses from men who are posed the same questions regarding women.

 

I don't think it's about more or less value in perception/likeableness as it is an ability to relate in experience and to be able to trust..honest, integrity.

 

I believe that people should be taken at face value. In a general sense, it would be risky and I would be taken aback.

 

In an individual situation, knowing the person is paramount and not to be dismissed. I think that every individual has a story.

We can guess what to do...but not know until it happens and not until we know someone well enough to say yes or no.

[Toodaloo]

Interesting responses. They are pretty much what I expected though.

 

I wonder what factor plays the biggest role in making a stripper/gigolo undateable. Is it the work/sex or the perception that he's superficial and unable to have a meaningful relationship? Or something else?

 

Its the attitude towards sex...

 

Being paid for or paying someone for sex is not within my personal morals and thus it would be a deal breaker for me.

 

I am not saying it is "wrong" but I am saying its not for me.

[Gloria25]

Interesting responses. They are pretty much what I expected though.

 

I wonder what factor plays the biggest role in making a stripper/gigolo undateable. Is it the work/sex or the perception that he's superficial and unable to have a meaningful relationship? Or something else?

 

For me it's plain and simple....

 

I wouldn't be turned on by someone I had to pay to get with me.

 

Thankfully, I can still get laid with my personality and/or looks. I mean, if I had to pay for sex, I'd just go to a bar and pick up a guy and save my money than suffer some bum on my couch 24/7. It's easy for a woman to get laid - if that's all she needs.

 

I don't know of any women who have had a stripper or gigolo bf, but know of women who got in RLs with guys that the women paid for stuff (rent, food, stuff for him) - which essentially is paying for the guy's attention/affection/etc.

 

At one job this one woman had no shame. She literally was just bragging about her bf. She said he had "low self-esteem", and that's why he couldn't find work. Ok, why would she be proud to announce this to the world, I don't know. Maybe cuz she got off on having a "pet"? Or maybe she felt that she needed to rationalize it by repeating it aloud?

 

She was very unattractive, overweight, no fashion sense, and wore an outdated hairstyle. She should have used all that money spent on him to improve her looks and get a man who actually would want "her" - not her money. Eh, but her personality sucked too. She was a very loud and off-putting person.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Gloria25

[Got it]

Interesting responses. They are pretty much what I expected though.

 

I wonder what factor plays the biggest role in making a stripper/gigolo undateable. Is it the work/sex or the perception that he's superficial and unable to have a meaningful relationship? Or something else?

 

Actually for myself it would be the (assumed) higher number of sex partners. Since I have only slept with two people, I am not interested in being with someone that has slept with a lot of people. Just a preference of mine. Being a paid companion isn't an issue for me, just having sex with a large number of people would be. So that would be an issue with others then as well.

[Toodaloo]

Its not the numbers that bother me so much. Anyone can sleep around if they want to and none of us is perfect.

 

Its the disposable way that sex is used as a transaction. I couldn't date anyone who tested on animals for a living either. For exactly the same reason. Its not that I am "against" it. I just do not want that in my life.

 

Its the way sex is considered nothing more or less than a loaf of bread from the shop. Because that IS what it boils down to. At least with a one night stand or something is more "human". You go to the effort to pull. With prostitution is a phone call. Hell, I put more effort into getting a takeaway...

 

I just don't do "disposable". I don't treat others that way, I don't want to be treated that way and nor do I want to be with a person who can treat others that way.

 

In the same way I do not test my lipstick on my dog, I do not want to test lip stick on my dog and nor do I want to be with someone who will test lipstick on my dog.

 

Same difference in my mind. I understand that there are needs etc but equally I don't want to be a part of that.

[BlueIris]

The best is a loving relationship in which both people are fair and honest about sex and money and neither person views it as a money/sex exchange.

 

But lots of people don't. Gigolos, prostitutes, sugar daddies and babies, Johns (and Janes?) are honest about the “deal.” I think that’s better than the people who aren't honest about it and run a balance sheet in their heads or get into a twist about money and dating, money and marriage, being taken advantage of financially, marrying for money or using money to lure sex, not getting enough considering how much money they’re spending, and on and on. The wailing about money is so annoying I actually respect people who are forthright about the exchange more than I respect the secret exchange-thinkers.

[SammySammy]

The best is a loving relationship in which both people are fair and honest about sex and money and neither person views it as a money/sex exchange.

 

But lots of people don't. Gigolos, prostitutes, sugar daddies and babies, Johns (and Janes?) are honest about the “deal.” I think that’s better than the people who aren't honest about it and run a balance sheet in their heads or get into a twist about money and dating, money and marriage, being taken advantage of financially, marrying for money or using money to lure sex, not getting enough considering how much money they’re spending, and on and on. The wailing about money is so annoying I actually respect people who are forthright about the exchange more than I respect the secret exchange-thinkers.

 

Agreed.

 

What's interesting is people who have exchanged sex for money receive a stigma they keep for life. While other sexual transactions are ignored and seen as normal - what happens in typical marriage, dating or single life - and would not preclude a person from being dating or marriage material.

[O'Malley]

My caution about getting involved with a former sex worker would be similar to my hesitation about getting involved with anyone who formerly patronized prostitutes or strippers: I'd be concerned that they might view people and relationships as commodities.

 

I also think that sex work tends to attract a certain type of personality: someone more extroverted, superficially charming but a bit ruthless and self focused. The mercenary nature of stripping, pornography, escorting - the need to market one's self, to avoid being taken advantage of and deal with manipulative, demeaning and possibly abusive clients - would tend to bring out more of those traits as well.

 

If said guy had his stuff together, our personalities and lifestyles were strongly compatible and that part of his life was well in his past and he had come to terms with the negative consequences that resulted from it, I'd be open to a relationship.

[preraph]

The best is a loving relationship in which both people are fair and honest about sex and money and neither person views it as a money/sex exchange.

 

But lots of people don't. Gigolos, prostitutes, sugar daddies and babies, Johns (and Janes?) are honest about the “deal.” I think that’s better than the people who aren't honest about it and run a balance sheet in their heads or get into a twist about money and dating, money and marriage, being taken advantage of financially, marrying for money or using money to lure sex, not getting enough considering how much money they’re spending, and on and on. The wailing about money is so annoying I actually respect people who are forthright about the exchange more than I respect the secret exchange-thinkers.

 

I have to disagree that the sex workers are honest about the deal. They are often not honest about it. A whole lot of them are con artists. You can't say someone is honest about it if half their job is telling you how wonderful and handsome you are and how you deserve better than you're getting at home with the wife. And that's ALL of them.

[Toodaloo]

Sex, affection, doing things for each other, saying kind things, buying things for each other...

 

In a relationship it should be given freely and without wish for reward by BOTH simply because they BOTH like their partner to be happy. That is when couples are at their happiest because they BOTH get as much as they put in with out having to worry about it.

 

In a business/ sales transaction aka prostitution it can't be viewed in that way at all. I can buy a loaf of bread from a guy I don't like. I can't hold his hand and be affectionate with a guy I don't like.

[SammySammy]

Sex, affection, doing things for each other, saying kind things, buying things for each other...

 

In a relationship it should be given freely and without wish for reward by BOTH simply because they BOTH like their partner to be happy. That is when couples are at their happiest because they BOTH get as much as they put in with out having to worry about it.

 

In a business/ sales transaction aka prostitution it can't be viewed in that way at all. I can buy a loaf of bread from a guy I don't like. I can't hold his hand and be affectionate with a guy I don't like.

 

I understand how you feel about dating someone currently in the sex game. I get that, totally.

 

Could you feel differently about someone you met under different circumstances and that behavior was in their distant past? Someone you liked and was interested in? Could you give him a chance or would he always be off limits because of his past?

[minimariah]

1. Is there a stigma among women toward women who may use a gigolo?

 

hmmmmm... no, nope. not really...! BUT - there IS a stigma among women toward those women who decide to seriously date & marry a sex worker of any kind (stripper, gigolo...); it's like this... no stigma as long as it's fun. it's all "YOU GO GIRL, MAN EATER!" buuuuuuut as soon as it becomes MORE than that...? it's a problem.

 

2. If a man had been a stripper or gigolo in his past is that something you would always want to know?

 

for sure; but when i'm in love - i want to know everything about that person. i want to inform myself about their life choices, important moments and thought process.

 

Would you consider a man who had been a stripper or gigolo dating or marriage material?

 

if we have incredible chemistry + are compatible + enjoy spending time together...? for sure. i wouldn't reject a man i REALLY like because of that... i have a hard time finding someone i REALLY click with, that's a rarity for me. so if it happens - yeah, i'm definitely giving him a chance. HOWEVER...

 

for me - attraction must come naturally and i won't and can't have sex with someone i DON'T have that attraction with. a gigolo sleeps with women for money, meaning - even if he isn't attracted to them: so we'll have different views on attraction and sex right in the beginning... i assume. that's the reason i'd be bothered by his gigolo past -- i'm not sure how compatible we'd be when it comes to views on love, chemistry, sex, connection...