Issue with Girlfriend's Ex BF: A multi-dimensional issue and we are at a standoff!

September 21, 2016

I'm looking for some guidance here and some external perspective from those who may have experienced this issue or have done research on it, or explored possible solutions, etc. You'll have to bear with me as I describe this in detail, because it is a complex and multidimensional issue, and we seem to have come to a stand-still on finding a solution.

First of all, I am in my late 40s, and my gf is in her late 30s. Both of us have been married before, several years ago. We have been together for a year and have become very close. We knew after the first 3 months of being together that we had met our life matches for the long term and fell in love. We get along amazingly well, have a lot of fun together, love each other very much, communicate very well (which is a HUGE benefit and gets us through just about anything), and for the most part our relationship is healthy and gratifying. We also live together now and have a family - each of us and our kids from the prior marriages. But there is this one issue looming over our heads and we can't seem to come to a resolution or find a solution that is a reasonable compromise for both us.

...enter the ex-boyfriend/best friend

When we first met, I noticed that my gf had a lot of pictures on Facebook of her and this guy. They looked very friendly, and I asked her about him just to make sure I wasn't stepping into something messy. She said he was just a friend, though they had tried to date and lived together about 4 years ago for a year, and it didn't work out. She said she had absolutely no attraction to him, and he was more like a family member of brother. This I truly believe and she has never demonstrated otherwise, so this is not an issue of trust in this regard. They became very good, actually best friends. During this time, my gf was also going through some major health issues and had just come out of a nasty divorce. This guy happened to be there for her at the right time, and he and his family supported her. So she naturally developed a close relationship with he and his family. Rationally, that all makes sense.

When my gf first told me all of this, I was a little put off. I am sort of old fashion and conservative when it comes to maintaining close friendships with exes. My personal view of this, all exceptions noted with people who are able to pull it off, is that it's generally not a good idea and it has the potential to stir a lot of instinctive emotions, awkwardness, tension, and conflict, especially if one of the parties still has feelings for the other. But our problem just wasn’t about my old fashion principles or personal philosophy on the matter. That would be easy to address. I was initially willing to accept her friendship with her ex, because she wasn’t really clear on how they interacted or how often, and I just assumed that they talked on occasion, or maybe had lunch once in a while – nothing too frequent. I have been through this before in prior relationships and it was never a major problem. The women I was with seemed to intuitively understand the boundaries and no issues occurred. But I soon discovered this was not the case with my gf and her ex, and this is where the problem got complex.

Here is my outline of the issue, and how it has developed

1. My gf and her ex had developed a friendship where they texted each other and talked on the phone several times a day, and hung out with each other several days a week, and even lived a few blocks from each other. This was a far cry than what I had thought initially. I was not comfortable with this at all.

2. My gf knew I wasn’t comfortable and started to slightly reduce the frequency with which she communicated with him…still every day and meeting with him once a week or so, but not to the same extent as before. This was mainly because she was spending more time with me, so she had to prioritize her time.

3. I was willing to try to make it work and agreed for the three of us to meet at a bar with some other friends. That seemed to work fine. I had nothing against him really at that point, and was just uncomfortable with the constant contact and communication. I thought over time that would wane naturally as it had in prior relationships, so I didn’t push it.

4. However, shortly after we all met, several times her ex called in the middle of the night when we were in bed together, drunk, and asking her to pick him up, or going on about his problems in a drunken state. She apparently did this a lot and he was used to her being there for his every beck and call. She has admitted that she has a hard time saying no and felt a sense of loyalty toward him, despite this leading to some boundary issues. She of course answered the phone and talked to him, and did this a few times, but I thought it was completely disrespectful and got very upset over it. After fighting over this and talking about it at length, this stopped happening, but not without a price. He became angry and lashed out.

5. About this same time her ex started saying bad things about me (for what reason, I do not know, except that he couldn’t spend as much time with my gf, and I was her #1 priority). He started to treat her badly over the phone or in person, yelling at her about me, and saying he didn’t want us to be together, telling her she had to choice between me and him. He was very territorial and appeared to be attempting to control her. At one point, he came over to her house drunk, smashed her glass table and grabbed her in a fit of anger. She got very upset, but of course forgave him.

6. I am convinced that if he had the opportunity, her ex would get back together with her. At one point in time she agreed with me on this. So his lashing out wasn’t just over the fact that he couldn’t spend as much time with her. He didn’t want her to be with anyone, and in fact it could have been anyone…I just happened to be the one she fell in love with and he didn’t like it.

7. The texting and phone calls continued, as well as the ex being a total jerk to her, until my gf and I started to fight about it once again. We both knew it was a problem that we had to solve otherwise it would take a toll on our relationship. The last straw was when we were on vacation with the family, and he texted her while we were in bed, and she answered the text. I tried to explain to her that I thought and felt this was very disrespectful of him, as he knew were on vacation together. I believe he has always tried to drive a wedge between us to that we would break up.

8. To complicate things, when my gf and I first met she had a drinking problem, but I didn’t know this until later. Basically, she and her ex bf used to drink a lot and that seemed to be one of the only common things they shared, and hanging out with mutual friends who did the same.

9. My gf is now in recovery, but still in the early volatile phases, where she needs to avoid people and places that serve as triggers. Her bf is basically a trigger, not just because he drinks constantly, but he just recently bought the bar they used to hang out at. In fact, a few times in the last few months before she went into recovery, she had gone out with him just to have lunch or something, and relapsed because he took her to the bar or to the house where she took drinks from his fridge. As you can imagine, all this just fumed me.

As it stand now, they still communicate several times a week, but only get together for lunch maybe 2-3 times a month. But at this point the damage has been done -- what he had done, his lack of respect for our relationship and desire for us not to be together, etc, and he still remains to be a bad influence in my opinion given her addiction issues and recovery process. I get extremely upset still when they text or talk on the phone…it’s almost a physical response of anxiety.

We are at sort of a standstill because we are unable to meet both of our needs. She wants to remain friends with him out of loyalty, and yet her continued contact with him upsets me greatly given what has happened, which also upsets her. I want her to be happy, but I can’t help the way the situation makes me feel. So either way we both seem to lose. If she stops being friends with him, then she is sad and unhappy, yet her continued friendship continues to cause problems and strife in our relationship, which also makes both of us unhappy.

I tried to come up with a compromise and work out some boundaries. I suggested that perhaps she could meet him in person maybe only 2-3 times a year for special occasions, and limit their phone calls to just 1-2 times a month, and limit the texting to just infrequently. I could learn to live with this, but she doesn’t think this would be much of a friendship, so around and around we go. She is an amazing women and does in fact value our relationship, and she said that if it had to come to it, she would discontinue the relationship with her ex and put our relationship first. This would of course solve my problem and make me feel better, but at the cost of her feelings and the loss of a good friend, and make me feel horrible.

Thoughts, suggestions? What can we do?

September 21, 2016

No, sir. This situation is all types of messed up. First off, he's not a good friend. He yells at her, talks about you, calls at unreasonable hours, and could lead your gf astray from her sobriety. Granted it would be her choice, but hanging around with him isnt going to be helpful.

You don't compromise on issues like this. If she feels unhappy without a guy like that who doesn't respect your relationship, then she doesn't respect the relationship either. I could almost see why you'd want to compromise if the guy was a good person and respectful, but from what you've said, he's not. Look at the drama his presence has already caused in your relationship.

I also don't see any point in telling her '2-3 times a year'. If she wants him in her life that bad, I don't see how that would be enough for her. Tell her to cut him off. If she does and she's sad throughout the entire relationship, then obviously one means more than the other.

If it ever came down between my ex and my new partner, I'd karate chop my ex out the picture. I wouldn't care how good the friendship was, world is full of friends, I'll find a new one and keep my relationship intact.

September 21, 2016

From the way you describe things, I'm afraid I have some disappointing news for you. You are not her boyfriend. At best, you are a FWB. Her real boyfriend is an abusive jerk, and she takes it. If you were her real partner, she would have no trouble dumping his sorry ass in favor of you. But, she sees such behavior as throwing him under a bus, and she just can't bring herself to do that. Because she really loves him. If I were you, I'd take a play from the other man's book and give her an ultimatum: either him or me. You choose. Now. But be prepared to walk because she will try anything to have her cake and to eat it too, and I'm afraid it just doesn't look good for you.

September 21, 2016

There are far more problems here than the "friend".

You need to walk from this asap.

I know it hurts but you are getting involved in a whole heap of mess and dramas...

Just get out.

September 21, 2016

He may have been calling and texting, but she responded.

If I were you, I'd tell her that she can either continue a relationship with me or she can continue this "friendship", but she can't have both.

Edited September 21, 2016 by MJJean

September 21, 2016

I don't know what you want to do, but I would have dumped her at about point number 5.

xBF would have gone to the hospital if he grabbed my women for any reason, BS on that.

You are being super passive about this, Why?

If she does not cut all contact with him right now, it needs to be over. He is nothing but an orbiter hoping to screw your GF at the first opportunity.

Look, I don't want to he too harsh, but at 40 YO you should already know this stuff and put a stop to it or gotten rid of her. She has NO PROPER boundaries.

September 21, 2016

Thank you. It is good to have some external perspective on this.

No, sir. This situation is all types of messed up. First off, he's not a good friend. He yells at her, talks about you, calls at unreasonable hours, and could lead your gf astray from her sobriety. Granted it would be her choice, but hanging around with him isnt going to be helpful.

You don't compromise on issues like this. If she feels unhappy without a guy like that who doesn't respect your relationship, then she doesn't respect the relationship either. I could almost see why you'd want to compromise if the guy was a good person and respectful, but from what you've said, he's not. Look at the drama his presence has already caused in your relationship.

I also don't see any point in telling her '2-3 times a year'. If she wants him in her life that bad, I don't see how that would be enough for her. Tell her to cut him off. If she does and she's sad throughout the entire relationship, then obviously one means more than the other.

If it ever came down between my ex and my new partner, I'd karate chop my ex out the picture. I wouldn't care how good the friendship was, world is full of friends, I'll find a new one and keep my relationship intact.

September 21, 2016

From the way you describe things, I'm afraid I have some disappointing news for you. You are not her boyfriend. At best, you are a FWB. Her real boyfriend is an abusive jerk, and she takes it. If you were her real partner, she would have no trouble dumping his sorry ass in favor of you. But, she sees such behavior as throwing him under a bus, and she just can't bring herself to do that. Because she really loves him. If I were you, I'd take a play from the other man's book and give her an ultimatum: either him or me. You choose. Now. But be prepared to walk because she will try anything to have her cake and to eat it too, and I'm afraid it just doesn't look good for you.

Well, we are definitely NOT FWB. It is far beyond that. We live together, have a family, love each other, are in love, etc. The issue is not that we are FWB, but that she has what used to be a best friend and now she is faced with the decision of having to eliminate this friend due to the issues he is causing. Granted, she has issues with boundaries and saying not, and loyalty, etc...she knows this and is working on it. So, we have made progress, but the current state is still not maintainable. And as I said, my gf is willing to completely sever the relationship with the ex for us. It would make her said, but she will do it if necessary. We are just trying to find a compromise here, where she can be friends with this guy, but it doesn't cause ongoing tension.

September 21, 2016

Well, clearly she has chosen me, but is just trying to maintain a friendship that was genuine. We live together, have a family, are in love and love each other. The question is not who she has chosen, but whether it is possible for her to be with me and maintain a friendship with this guy. It is looking like this will not work and she is prepared to severe the relationship if necessary.

Yes, she is in recovery and made the choice on her own. I of course helped her realize that problem, but she made the choice to get help. And she realizes that her ex was a trigger or enabler, which we have also factored into our discussion together.

She does have intentions to solve her problems. She is doing it now and is so far on a successful pathway. I am proud of her for it. So I don't want to blow this issue out more than what it really is. It's really down to this issue with the ex. Everything else is manageable and doesn't cause any conflict or stress.

She was also independent before we met, so we didn't get together because she needed it

It's too bad you need to spoon feed her instructions on how to live her life.

She has chosen - she chose him.

And she's in recovery recently? Was that something she did on her own? What prompted her to want to get sober?

You have a gal with all kinds of issues...issues she has no intention of resolving.

She has NO boundary. She lets this jerk walk all over her. She has a drinking problem and a long road of recovery ahead.

Does she work? Can she support herself?

She needs to live on her own! She has a lot to sift through and figure out. You shouldn't be involved until she works waaaay past her issues that caused her to drink to excess. There's a LOT of trauma she's avoiding - and you don't want to be there while she works through all her crap with no boundaries.

Have her move. She's acted terribly. There's consequences for bad behavior and it should include ending this relationship for now and having her move.

What is she actively doing to stay sober?

September 21, 2016

r. The question is not who she has chosen, but whether it is possible for her to be with me and maintain a friendship with this guy.

No it's not possible if you want your relationship to be healthy.

September 21, 2016

Thank you for all the responses. It's interesting, but I honestly thought I would see at least one positive response on this that provided a workable solution to the issue, which met both of our needs, one where my ex could keep some form of friendship intact with her ex, but avoided any tension between us, etc. As it stands, the ex bf appears to be behaving, so the question remaining is weather I can handle them communicating on a regular basis, and to what extent, given the tension of the prior history. Once the damage has been done and you know the thoughts and feelings of the ex, it's hard to view the situation in positive light

September 21, 2016

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

September 21, 2016

Thank you for all the responses. It's interesting, but I honestly thought I would see at least one positive response on this that provided a workable solution to the issue, which met both of our needs, one where my ex could keep some form of friendship intact with her ex, but avoided any tension between us, etc. As it stands, the ex bf appears to be behaving, so the question remaining is weather I can handle them communicating on a regular basis, and to what extent, given the tension of the prior history. Once the damage has been done and you know the thoughts and feelings of the ex, it's hard to view the situation in positive light

The thing is, she has to WANT a workable agreement. But at this stage, I don't think she has any desire to substantially reduce contact. And even if she did want it, he'd pressure her to keep up the current amount of contact. Not to mention that he'd resent you for this and tell her all sorts of awful things about you. And she'd let him.

I also have to point out that your ideas of compromise really aren't workable for two people who clearly want to live in each other's pockets. Thing is, if their contact is at a 10 (on a scale of 1-10), your offer of compromise is about a 2. That's not compromise. Compromise would be more around the once a week and 'turn your phone off at night' level.

At any rate, it's your role to tell her what you'd be comfortable with - but you must be careful not to push that lest you be controlling. It all goes back to her making the right decision for herself and your relationship. And if she won't make a reasonable decision which she and you are happy with, you walk away. Or you accept the current behaviour.

Personally, I'd walk away.

September 21, 2016

Thank you for all the responses. It's interesting, but I honestly thought I would see at least one positive response on this that provided a workable solution to the issue, which met both of our needs, one where my ex could keep some form of friendship intact with her ex, but avoided any tension between us, etc. As it stands, the ex bf appears to be behaving, so the question remaining is weather I can handle them communicating on a regular basis, and to what extent, given the tension of the prior history. Once the damage has been done and you know the thoughts and feelings of the ex, it's hard to view the situation in positive light

It's not that difficult of a situation. It's not like an issue of one person wanting sex with the lights off and the other person wanting the lights on. This is a third person being involved, an ex. And from what you've described, there really is no way for this to work without one person being unhappy. One person is going to have to suck it up and deal with the consequences (since ending the relationship is off the table apparently).

The unhappy person will probably be you because you're giving her a lot of leeway with her interactions with her ex. You should consider the possibility that if her feelings for him are so strong that she can't bear without his friendship, they may end up getting back together or fooling around behind your back at some point.

Also, she hasn't really chosen you because you haven't required her to make a decision. She has him and she has you. You get the title of bf, but she still gets to interact and meet up with her ex. Even with you trying to impose boundaries on the friendship, you are essentially allowing her to have her cake and eat it too.

You also call him the ex bf in your thread title but call him 'friend' and 'best friend' in your posts. He's an ex. If he hadn't been in a relationship with your gf and they actually had a platonic friendship, he wouldn't be acting the way he does. He's an ex who she is calling a 'friend', but that's not how real friends interact with each other.

September 22, 2016

The thing is, she has to WANT a workable agreement. But at this stage, I don't think she has any desire to substantially reduce contact. And even if she did want it, he'd pressure her to keep up the current amount of contact. Not to mention that he'd resent you for this and tell her all sorts of awful things about you. And she'd let him.

I also have to point out that your ideas of compromise really aren't workable for two people who clearly want to live in each other's pockets. Thing is, if their contact is at a 10 (on a scale of 1-10), your offer of compromise is about a 2. That's not compromise. Compromise would be more around the once a week and 'turn your phone off at night' level.

At any rate, it's your role to tell her what you'd be comfortable with - but you must be careful not to push that lest you be controlling. It all goes back to her making the right decision for herself and your relationship. And if she won't make a reasonable decision which she and you are happy with, you walk away. Or you accept the current behaviour.

Personally, I'd walk away.

She does have the desire, and she has already reduced contact dramatically. We are trying to find a scenario where we are both comfortable with the outcome. We are not there yet.

I have to say that the responses here are really non-constructive and harsh. Surely there is one possible positive solution? My gf and I share everything. I told her I was seeking advice here on our problem, and shared the responses with her. She cried and said it made her fee like ****. I was expecting some great advise, but instead got a bunch of responses that paint her as some self-centered deviant, and this is truly not her. She is between a rock and a hard place...torn between loosing a very close friend who supported her through thick and thin, and creating a healthy relationship for us. She has already said that if we can't find a compromise, she will severe the relationship. I don't want that, because it feels like it's my way or nothing, and seems controlling. I am not a controlling person.

What I am gathering so far is that there really isn't a compromise, because any contact she has with her ex is going to irritate the hell out of me, because of the precedent he has already set. He sort of burned his bridge and ruined any chance of there being a healthy way for he and her to be friends....but we'll see. We will find a solution

Walking away is not an option. You just don't stop being in love with someone who you have been with for a year, and who you have a family with. That is a cop out. We are trying to come to a mutual solution. If for whatever reason we can't, she will sever the relationship for the sake of our relationship. That she made very clear. Our relationship is the priority here and we are in it for the long haul.

September 22, 2016

It's not that difficult of a situation. It's not like an issue of one person wanting sex with the lights off and the other person wanting the lights on. This is a third person being involved, an ex. And from what you've described, there really is no way for this to work without one person being unhappy. One person is going to have to suck it up and deal with the consequences (since ending the relationship is off the table apparently).

The unhappy person will probably be you because you're giving her a lot of leeway with her interactions with her ex. You should consider the possibility that if her feelings for him are so strong that she can't bear without his friendship, they may end up getting back together or fooling around behind your back at some point.

Also, she hasn't really chosen you because you haven't required her to make a decision. She has him and she has you. You get the title of bf, but she still gets to interact and meet up with her ex. Even with you trying to impose boundaries on the friendship, you are essentially allowing her to have her cake and eat it too.

You also call him the ex bf in your thread title but call him 'friend' and 'best friend' in your posts. He's an ex. If he hadn't been in a relationship with your gf and they actually had a platonic friendship, he wouldn't be acting the way he does. He's an ex who she is calling a 'friend', but that's not how real friends interact with each other.

Yeah, well said. I think we are both starting to come to this same conclusion. She really does understand this, and I probably haven't given her enough credit in terms of what she has done so far. Based on how things were at the beginning, where we are now is a major and extreme change. So basically it appears there is no viable solution where he is in the picture. If he would have been cool and played his cards right, things may have been different, but he blew the whole situation up with his immature and disrespectful behavior. She is willing to accept this conclusion. She obviously doesn't want to lose a friend, but if that is what it comes down to, she will go with it. I haven't created any ultimatums, because I thought there might be some sort of scenario where she could be fiends with him and not cause any problems. I describe what that was, but as you said in a prior response, it really isn't much of a friendship, so what would be the point? It is sort of a black and white decision, unfortunately.

You are right on the comment about ex vs. friend. I suspected early on that the ONLY reason why he was bent out of shape about her being with me was that he still had some feelings for her, and hanging out with her constantly was the closest he could get to being "with" her. She suspected this as well. Otherwise, why would he get so angry and try to pull us apart? A true platonic friend would not do this...he would congratulate her and be happy for her, not berate here and tell her she made a mistake or bad mouth me. So that made things clear.

September 22, 2016

^^

Which means ending the friendship will be better for him, as well. He can't really move on with her in his life in any capacity, as he has already proven.

September 22, 2016

Your gf is in a very toxic relationship with this guy, and he's using their history together in order to manipulate her. It's hard to say what the compromise would be because it all falls on her and her choices. It's her choice to respond or not respond to his calls and texts. If she would stop being so responsive, he would eventually get tired of being ignored and maybe move on. Either she stops feeding this beast, or she doesn't.

And yes he's being deliberately disrespectful to your relationship and I'm surprised she doesn't see that. And if she does see it, then she must know that a real friend -- in a healthy friendship -- would never behave in such a manner. While she may feel some obligation towards this guy, she needs to understand that she isn't obligated to the point of jeopardizing her most significant relationship (the one with you) for him.

Unfortunately she seems to not understand boundaries very well. While it's good of you to hope for a compromise, it's really going to be up to her to act responsibly and limit contact with him. If I were you, I'd sit back and watch how things transpire over the next few months. From where I'm standing, I believe their relationship is more unstable then they both realize and it will either fade into the background or fall apart completely eventually. Your gf simply won't have the time nor inclination to babysit this guy long-term.

In the meantime, I would lay down specific rules that the two of you agree to. For instance, she doesn't answer any calls from him while she's doing things with you (having dinner, at a movie, on vacation, etc), that she not respond to anything from him after 10:00pm, etc. If that doesn't work, I'd recommend talking to a counselor who could act as a mediator and possibly help your gf see where she's losing the thread on this issue. Then if all of those efforts fail, you're going to need to seriously ask yourself if it's worth staying in this relationship.

September 22, 2016

From what you have posted, the way I see it is that she could decide to back away from her ex and even go as far as to stop communicating with him all together but I think the ex isn't just going to say yeah OK and walk away.

It's got to the point that in my opinion he wont go along with the program and continue to be a pain in the ass and wont accept it This has gone on so long that it's become a real bad habit for both of them.

She's going to have a hard time having a time limit with this guy and so will he. As soon as you two moved in together is when she should have shut this down and he should have backed off. It didn't happen and now it's gotten worse.

I can't help wondering how she would have dealt with it if it was you with the ex/ now friend/ now best friend/ now pain in the ass. You know her better then us so ask yourself if she would have let this slide as long as you've let it slide.

This has become a old habit and a lifestyle now and old habits are hard to break.

She needs to go cold turkey with this guy, well a long time ago it should have been put to rest.

September 22, 2016

I can see why you feel the responses have been harsh and non constructive. But to be fair, I don't think you made it clear that she would end the close friendship with him in order to save your relationship.

If she's prepared to put some really strong boundaries in place with him - and enforce them - then perhaps it can work.

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