Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 This doesn't always happen to me, but I have seen a trend so I thought I would ask if people would weigh in their thoughts or state whether or not it has happened to them. So I have dated perhaps quite consistently throughout my late 20's to early 30's. As I have done some healing work, there have been some shifts I've noticed of the sort of men who seem interested in me. Some of the men in the past might have been what some people see as " unattainable" the men who you are interested and they are not interested in you. The normal stuff in dating that happens. Lately, though, the guys or the " unattainables" are not my cups of tea, so I find myself attracted to a new pool of men who have a bit of substance and depth. But I also find myself having men attracted to me! Some of these men are shy, weak and passive, and I am not a shy, weak or passive kind of person. There was actually one guy who kept trying to contact me after he rejected me twice ( I posted about it earlier) I was no longer interested in him so I politely told him to buzz off, he was trying to manipulate me in sparking up conversations with him expressing how " down" he is, in which I said he has other friends for him to share his problems with but i am not the one to confide in as I am busy and barely have time for myself, plus I find it inappropriate to share personal, intimate information with me when it's probably best to see a professional counsellor as there are plenty available or have these conversations with other male friends, but not female ones. Plus I do not owe him anything; I'm not his girlfriend. I'm not interested, and I am tired of hearing your bulls**t in other words. I find his attitude feeble, passive and somewhat lukewarm and gross. It makes me feel so yucky for some reason. There has been another guy, who has told me how relieved he is that I had given him a chance as other woman hadn't. He told me he found me good looking but he mostly liked that I have him a shot. Again, I was turned off by his endless passive energy- I feel stronger than some of these men are, I feel like I'm the man, and they're the lady! The men I am attracted to are secure in their identity as a person and have quality relationships with friends and family. They have strong core values ( doesn't have to be exactly the same as mine) passions and interests and have unpacked most of their issues and baggage as I am learning to unpack and sort out mine. I am becoming stronger I think as a result, I am looking for a strong individual whereby we can match each other. Perhaps this happens as you are going through a journey of healing and on the road to happiness and you sort of meet these latches that want to latch onto you and as you sift them out one by one, you able to more or less identify what it is you deserve, want and need, rather than things you can barely tolerate. Has this happen to people and is this a normal part of dating? or is there something deeper displayed here?
todreaminblue Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) i feel its quite normal to want someone who challenges you to be a better person who is confident yet not cocky and arrogant...i actually think its healthy..confidence isnt arrogance however.....you just have to discern whether its real confidence or insecure arrogance...i dont like having to be the man in a relationship but i still expect to be treated with respect....and that is where arrogance falls short......and confidence appreciates that i have a mind of my own and allows me to dd to the relationship and support the relationship as an equal... i dont think its abnormal at all for you to have a set idea of what you like and seek in a relationship and a partner...to me that shows maturity..i must say though...that shy guys(seemingly passive) can warm up once they feel a bit more comfortable around you....deb Edited September 19, 2016 by todreaminblue
Wade Lamare Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Yes, quite normal I think. I can sympathise/empathise with these guys to a certain extent. You can feel fairly lonely in your romantic life as a very young man if you are most decidedly unhandsome and are not one of 'those' guys. But if you haven't sorted your stuff out by your late 20's early 30's then there is something wrong. I think your first paragraph is also quite normal. I often say that we are different people at different stages of our life. It's not unusual to want to date one sort of person when you are 17, 18, 22 whatever but as you mature your 'tastes' change. Not sure what you mean by unobtainable, the handsome jock? The archetypical 'bad boy'? These guys you describe seem to be at the extreme end of the 'Nice Guy' spectrum. Nice guys are not to be confused with good guys, are you aware of the Nice Guy concept? In their own way Nice Guys are almost as misogynistic as wannabee players. Keep looking and don't let your standards slip, I'm sure there is the right guy for you out there somewhere!
Toodaloo Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Its normal. For the majority of people in their 30's/ 40's who are looking, sadly there is a reason why they are single. Get involved and it screws you up as well. But there are hidden gems. You can find them if you just keep looking. 1
Author Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 19, 2016 Author Posted September 19, 2016 Yes, quite normal I think. I can sympathise/empathise with these guys to a certain extent. You can feel fairly lonely in your romantic life as a very young man if you are most decidedly unhandsome and are not one of 'those' guys. But if you haven't sorted your stuff out by your late 20's early 30's then there is something wrong. I think your first paragraph is also quite normal. I often say that we are different people at different stages of our life. It's not unusual to want to date one sort of person when you are 17, 18, 22 whatever but as you mature your 'tastes' change. Not sure what you mean by unobtainable, the handsome jock? The archetypical 'bad boy'? These guys you describe seem to be at the extreme end of the 'Nice Guy' spectrum. Nice guys are not to be confused with good guys, are you aware of the Nice Guy concept? In their way, Nice Guys are almost as misogynistic as wannabee players. Keep looking and don't let your standards slip, I'm sure there is the right guy for you out there somewhere! I use to foolishly fall for the bad boy, but that's usually the case with a lot of 20 somethings- that usually wears thin after a while. I know a lot of "bad boys" that still try that stuff when they are older( 30's-40's), but the quality of the woman that they are attracting are usually sliding too. An older woman doesn't seem to tolerate it that much. Which is why these 'bad boys" try and pin down younger woman. They get older, but the woman stays the same age. The same old tricks seem to get different yet negative results. And they are still lonely and frustrated. Yes to your comment about "nice guys". I have noticed that some of these "nice guys" out there that complain that there are no single woman available and are quite disappointed when woman do not choose them opting for 'seedy guys that disrespect them". That could be true, but healthy woman are looking for positive and healthy masculine energy and usually that is from a secure confident place as Deb has mentioned. These seemingly " nice guys" aren't always that nice at all. Nice is when you know who you are but you are humble enough to show someone else the same kindness and respect that you intend to give yourself. "The latches on"- In New Zealand we call them bidibids. They're a type of Acaena whereby you may walk through sand dunes and have these small seedlings attach to your clothes and then you just pick them off. That's what I feel like some of these men are like, just little velcro-like seedlings that have attachted themselves on, and I just have to pick them off and flick them away one by one. I guess that's also learning about boudaries-which comes from a place of self-respect and self-determination.
elaine567 Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 I think the media has an effect on young women. The hero in the movies is the guy who kicks ass, who beats up everyone, who shoots everyone, who puts people down, who mistreats people, who comes out on top. He is the "good guy" in the film, but IRL that sort of behaviour would get him arrested and labelled a bad guy. When looking for men the immature inexperienced woman is looking for the traits she sees are "good" and sexy in the movies. The bad boy, the "on the edge" guy, the aggressive guy, the moody loner, the guy who doesn't care a damn, the guy who treats women bad... It is all seems wildly attractive and exciting, until she gets her heart broken a few times by those kind of guys and she sees she has been sold a pup. Those aren't the good guys, the heroes IRL, those movie guys just make interesting, dramatic subjects that sell films. IRL those are the guys you steer well clear of, if you want a happy life. 2
Author Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 19, 2016 Author Posted September 19, 2016 I think the media has an effect on young women. The hero in the movies is the guy who kicks ass, who beats up everyone, who shoots everyone, who puts people down, who mistreats people, who come out on top. He is the "good guy" in the film, but IRL that sort of behaviour would get him arrested and labelled a bad guy. When looking for men, the immature, inexperienced woman is looking for the traits she sees "good" and sexy in the movies. The bad boy, the "on the edge" guy, the aggressive guy, the moody loner, the guy who doesn't care a damn, the guy who treats women bad... It is all seems wildly attractive and exciting until she gets her heart broken a few times by that kind of guys and she sees she has been sold a pup. Those aren't the good guys, the heroes IRL, those movie guys just make interesting, dramatic subjects that sell films. IRL those are the guys you steer well clear of if you want a happy life. Totally agree. Or the Christian Gray/ Anastasia Steel archetype of being able to tame the bad boy. What's the sense of that? If men grow up and eat a bit of humble pie and seek help for their behaviour and issues maybe then can they be "tamed" but that does not efficiently work with a woman by his side. I don't care how attractive the woman is. If she puts up with it, she'll get destroyed, and there usually isn't any "taming" of any degree.
elaine567 Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Taming the tiger is a common story line. "NO matter how bad it gets I will love him and if I can't put up with it, I obviously do not love him enough. so I will stick in there till the very end." 2
Wade Lamare Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Taming the tiger is a common story line. "NO matter how bad it gets I will love him and if I can't put up with it, I obviously do not love him enough. so I will stick in there till the very end." And to be fair men can also fall foul of this. Some men have the so called White Knight Syndrome where they are constantly starting relationships with 'broken' women and wondering why it all goes wrong.
Author Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 20, 2016 Author Posted September 20, 2016 And to be fair men can also fall foul of this. Some men have the so-called White Knight Syndrome where they are constantly starting relationships with 'broken' women and wondering why it all goes wrong. So moral of the story: get on a path of self-healing and wellness, start to feel comfortable in your skin ( The model Ashley Graham is a perfect example of this) and as you heal you'll start to attract similar people. We won't all be perfect but we can at least be on the path of wholeness. People try and seek validation through others, but they don't have the sustenance and capacity to make it last due to their brokenness. When you hear " I'm glad your not like my ex" when you are young, you can almost think that sounds complimentary, but when you hit your thirties, that sounds broken and comparative. That's why to me a spirit of passivity is sometimes a broken one because what you directly hear their tone, actions, impulses, reactions, and responses are desperation, loneliness, destitution, and brokeness which are not always right components to start a good and healthy relationship. 1
Gr8fuln2020 Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Well, once you reach the 30's/ 40's, dating becomes more difficult, so more time to reflect on the decades when you ignored the obvious b/c you thought you could. Years of experience, tired of dating and relationships...allowing yourself to listen to common sense and working your way out of the thralls of past mistakes will or should make anyone less tolerant of unwanted baggage.
Author Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 20, 2016 Author Posted September 20, 2016 Well, once you reach the 30's/ 40's, dating becomes more difficult, so more time to reflect on the decades when you ignored the obvious b/c you thought you could. Years of experience, tired of dating and relationships...allowing yourself to listen to common sense and working your way out of the thralls of past mistakes will or should make anyone less tolerant of unwanted baggage. Sometimes the previously abused end up abusing. Baggage is baggage when negative experiences and negative self-perceptions have not been dealt with in healthy and constructive ways. I remember not dealing with baggage that had been lingering in my life. It had impacted the relationships I had gotten into. It had chewed at my self-esteem. The baggage was from an abusive relationship 12 years prior. When I reached out to my ex, the man had changed from a child to a grown adult. He was sorry and apologetic, but understandably, he had forgotten our past relationship and no longer remembered his abuse. However, he did say that he was probably more selfish and thus apologetic for that at least and noted that we were both children who couldn't deal with each other's feelings very well. For 12 years I was angry at a memory. He was my first and the only relationship at that time, I hadn't been in a relationship since. I now see why it was probably a good idea that I did not! as it would probably have saved men from a lot of heart break! I delved in relationships rather desperately after that- to make up for lost time, and I had to deal with that too! As time can never be made up for. You lose time every second of every day. Now that I have become a lot healthier mind, body and soul things like sifting through men has become easier as determining a good fit, those who are mindfully and soulfully healthy and those who are not.
Arieswoman Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Daisy, Has this happen to people and is this a normal part of dating? or is there something deeper displayed here? Both IMO. If, like me, you did some work on yourself, you'll notice (as I did) a shift in the type of guys you are drawn to. (And them to you) Strong confident women can attract more passive chaps, but there is "moderation in all things" as they say. I would continue to do some more work on yourself and see how things progress. Good luck x
Author Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 20, 2016 Author Posted September 20, 2016 Daisy, Both IMO. If like me, you did some work on yourself, you'll notice (as I did) a shift in the type of guys you are drawn to. (And them to you) Strong, confident women can attract more passive chaps, but there is "moderation in all things" as they say. I would continue to do some more work on yourself and see how things progress. Good luck x But why does a strong, confident woman can attract more passive chaps? Is there any rhyme or reason?
Arieswoman Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 But why does a strong, confident woman can attract more passive chaps? Is there any rhyme or reason? "Opposites attract" - as they say Also some men like a woman to take the lead. My first husband was a pretty strong-minded guy in some respects and in that marriage there was a lot of "locking horns". My second husband likes to "go with the flow" and is more passive, but he can put his foot down if he wants. It's a better arrangement as I like to initiate and he will follow (up to a point !) He certainly isn't a wimp (he's been in the military) but he says he likes strong independent women to take the lead in relationships:)
Author Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted September 20, 2016 Author Posted September 20, 2016 "Opposites attract" - as they say Also some men like a woman to take the lead. My first husband was a pretty strong-minded guy in some respects and in that marriage there was a lot of "locking horns." My second husband likes to "go with the flow" and is more passive, but he can put his foot down if he wants. It's a better arrangement as I like to initiate and he will follow (up to a point !) He certainly isn't a wimp (he's been in the military), but he says he likes strong independent women to take the lead in relationships:) I think I would much prefer a man to initiate as I want to know for sure that he likes me. I have found that passive people are a bit kind of unsure of what they want and why the want it. It puts me in a position to make decisions and to resent them later for their passivity. Perhaps the passive men I have found have been manipulative and desperate. Perhaps it's not passiveness so much as a lack of masculinity that I find a turn-off. Sometimes the "masculine" men are over-confident and arrogant and use that to manipulate woman too, but people who show a double-minded attitude are equally manipulative. I think all I am looking for is my equal. Perhaps there is no such thing so to speak, but someone who I know there is assuredness and a 'presence' about them, a good healthy character and a sharp mind. Is that unrealistic?
Buddhist Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Post 40 I'm finding real candidates thin on the ground but I don't think it's because they're all married etc. I think its because I'm a lot more discerning than I used to be. In my younger years I would overlook a lot of stuff I shouldn't and ended up in bad relationships as a result. I don't like overly passive guys nor Dominant Guys TM. Both turn me off. I'm looking for the happy medium of a man who steers his own ship but leaves me to steer mine too. I'm not looking for a father figure or tribal leader at my age... An agreeable companion is more my thing. 1
Buddhist Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 But why does a strong, confident woman can attract more passive chaps? Is there any rhyme or reason? Because two passive people = staring at each other from across the room and going home alone wishing for what might have been. Passive guys don't want to make the move so they go for a woman who might and relieve them of their nervous burden.
Taramere Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 I use to foolishly fall for the bad boy, but that's usually the case with a lot of 20 somethings- that usually wears thin after a while. I know a lot of "bad boys" that still try that stuff when they are older( 30's-40's), but the quality of the woman that they are attracting are usually sliding too. An older woman doesn't seem to tolerate it that much. . As you get older, demands on your time can increase dramatically. Friends and relatives who look for your help, professional demands etc. You want your free time to be filled, as much as possible, with people who (and pastimes which) will be a source of pleasure rather than a source of stress/bringers of negative emotion into your life. It is different when you're younger - especially, I'd say, in the teenage years - when you have far less to worry about. At that point in your life, the drama that "bad boys" create can feel exciting. It's a time when you can afford to expend time and energy fretting over whether this or that guy likes you, is going to phone etc. I think the busier you are, the less patience you start having with people who tend towards the narcissistic, self absorbed approach that tends to be associated with bad boys. That approach might be oddly charming in a teenage boy or a guy in his early twenties - but beyond that, it's indicative of a person either not having much responsibility in their life, or not taking what responsibilities they do have seriously.
elaine567 Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 Is it possible that as we pair off the dominant /passive traits become more ingrained and obvious? We in general tend to adopt the role that suits the partnership and one person tends to take the lead and the other follows. If there is a power struggle then the tendency is to split, and those in truly equal partnerships are rare. So for those who stay, they have being playing their adopted role for 15-20+ years and old habits die hard I would guess. So at 35-40+ cast back in the dating game, these people are somewhat stuck and are comfortable in either the passive or the dominant role. Black and white more than shades of grey. So I am thinking that looking for people who are truly a happy medium or who would be happy in an equal partnership may be difficult as that is not what they are used to. Just a thought.
Buddhist Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 So I am thinking that looking for people who are truly a happy medium or who would be happy in an equal partnership may be difficult as that is not what they are used to. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not happy following a partner nor do I want to lead all the time. Either way I'm fast getting past the point of really caring anymore about a relationship. So it's kind of a moot point. I have little tolerance left for stuffing about in crappy relationships and my life is pretty full as it is. There's no gaping hole I'm looking to fill with another person. Thank goodness.
deep_night Posted September 20, 2016 Posted September 20, 2016 gosh, i also attract passive men or men who seem dominant but secretly want to be passive. the funny thing is that im also very passive and feminine as a temperament (nurturing - maybe too much, homely, sensitive, empathetic), so i guess both the guy and i are the girl in the relationship? LOL i am very attracted to the male archetype tbh but passive guys have their nice parts too and i can relate to them well. i guess they're still manlier in comparison to me, maybe this is why it hasnt been that big of a problem. in one case i found out that even though someone was passive in the beginning, as the relationship progressed he became manlier 0_0 like more protective and stoic. but maybe it was just a coincidence of him maturing at the same time for other reasons and wasnt linked to my presence in his life.
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