Is how we go about RLs messed up?

[Gloria25]

Ok, by now I guess people can tell from my posts that I'm sorta old fashioned and I'll preface this thread by saying, I hope people can keep an open mind and see that things were done a certain way in the past because there were some reasons behind them...

 

Ok,

 

My thread is about how we go about RLs. I was watching a show recently where a dude was giving dating pointers on how to have swagger, dress, and be able to attract, speak to, and/or pick up chicks.

 

If I'm correct, back in the day, a man didn't have those societal and frivolous pressures on him to snag a mate. As long as he was healthy, had a job/career, and savings in the bank, his family and/or the church would set him up with a nice gal from the hood and/or out of high school people got hitched.

 

Now a days, IMO, people put so much stock in stuff about a guy (i.e. swagger, dress, ability to talk to a chick) that while important - aren't as important as things a guy has that will make him an ideal husband, mate and/or father (i.e. loving guy, ability to bring home the bacon, handiguy skills).

 

So, I feel bad when I see threads/posts from guys who feel that in high school and/or in their 20's they're supposed to have bed and/or dated X amount of women, when that should be last thing at this point in their lives. At that point in their lives (teens, 20s) they are supposed to be worried about their studies, getting their own career/stuff/etc - which in turn will give them the confidence and ability to meet, date, and even marry a woman.

 

To summarize, I think the pressures on guys of what makes them dating material in their teens/20s now a days is ridiculous. They shouldn't be insecure, they shouldn't have anxiety and/or self-defeating feelings cuz nothing's wrong with them. They simply are going through a period in their lives (teens, 20's) that is preparing them to be ready for a woman (usually in their late 20's, 30's and beyond).

 

Back in the day, because how we went about dating, these silly and frivolous expectations (swagger, dress, pick-up lines) weren't placed upon men...and, yea, sure there were extremes (jocks vs. nerds) back then too - but I don't believe it was at the level it is in these days - which is breaking down men to have anxiety, become weak, and not be secure about themselves.

 

Also, women paying for guys stuff and giving them nooky without being in that secure point in their lives (having a job/career, stuff, education) isn't allowing them to become men because they are being taught that they no longer have to become something in order to have a woman, family, and/or kids.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Gloria25

[OneLov]

Ok, by now I guess people can tell from my posts that I'm sorta old fashioned and I'll preface this thread by saying, I hope people can keep an open mind and see that things were done a certain way in the past because there were some reasons behind them...

 

Ok,

 

My thread is about how we go about RLs. I was watching a show recently where a dude was giving dating pointers on how to have swagger, dress, and be able to attract, speak to, and/or pick up chicks.

 

If I'm correct, back in the day, a man didn't have those societal and frivolous pressures on him to snag a mate. As long as he was healthy, had a job/career, and savings in the bank, his family and/or the church would set him up with a nice gal from the hood and/or out of high school people got hitched.

 

Now a days, IMO, people put so much stock in stuff about a guy (i.e. swagger, dress, ability to talk to a chick) that while important - aren't as important as things a guy has that will make him an ideal husband, mate and/or father (i.e. loving guy, ability to bring home the bacon, handiguy skills).

 

So, I feel bad when I see threads/posts from guys who feel that in high school and/or in their 20's they're supposed to have bed and/or dated X amount of women, when that should be last thing at this point in their lives. At that point in their lives (teens, 20s) they are supposed to be worried about their studies, getting their own career/stuff/etc - which in turn will give them the confidence and ability to meet, date, and even marry a woman.

 

To summarize, I think the pressures on guys of what makes them dating material in their teens/20s now a days is ridiculous. They shouldn't be insecure, they shouldn't have anxiety and/or self-defeating feelings cuz nothing's wrong with them. They simply are going through a period in their lives (teens, 20's) that is preparing them to be ready for a woman (usually in their late 20's, 30's and beyond).

 

Back in the day, because how we went about dating, these silly and frivolous expectations (swagger, dress, pick-up lines) weren't placed upon men...and, yea, sure there were extremes (jocks vs. nerds) back then too - but I don't believe it was at the level it is in these days - which is breaking down men to have anxiety, become weak, and not be secure about themselves.

 

 

Birds do the same thing. Being able to fly allows birds to travel greater distances and have more exposure to their species' members of the opposite sex. But because a birds lifestyle is transient, how do females take notice? Males in most species have evolved to adopt a bright and elaborate plumage.

 

So as our culture becomes more transient, we need to rely on superficial methods to standout in the fast-moving crowds. Enter convergent evolution. Males need to rely on flossing to get female attention.

[Gloria25]

Birds do the same thing. Being able to fly allows birds to travel greater distances and have more exposure to their species' members of the opposite sex. But because a birds lifestyle is transient, how do females take notice? Males in most species have evolved to adopt a bright and elaborate plumage.

 

So as our culture becomes more transient, we need to rely on superficial methods to standout in the fast-moving crowds. Enter convergent evolution. Males need to rely on flossing to get female attention.

 

Well, even when it comes to birds, a female will not mate with a dude until he builds her an appropriate nest. Even though this is 2016, that hasn't changed.http://animals.mom.me/male-birds-build-elaborate-nests-9343.html

 

Unfortunately, men now a days don't have to prove their ability to build a nest (have a job/career, money, education). Women are more than happy to build the nest for them and/or start laying eggs when he barely put a few twigs together towards a nest - which is sad.

 

I guess women now a days have gone the way of the peacock birds...they just lean towards the male peacocks who have fancier feathers? Geesh, looks like the females end up having to build their own nest in those mating rituals http://animals.mom.me/kind-nests-peacocks-build-5473.html. So, there go you, I guess when a woman choses a guy based on swagger, she ends up having to do the hard work to build and keep the nest/family.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Gloria25

[Davey L]

I think this works both ways. The guys these days assess the women differently not taking account of their ability to to raise a family, keep house, cook and so on, while the girls don't seem to care whether the boys have basic competence in traditionally male responsibilities.

 

So we get guys that can barely cope with changing a light bulb and girls that can't even boil an egg.

 

As a traditionalist myself I used to check out a girl's cooking at the first opportunity after like two or three dates. Almost all failed this simple test.

[NTV]

So your post is centered around the assumption that men pursue marriage and children as a life goal?

[lana-banana]

I think these are two fundamentally different issues. The people pursuing healthy, serious, committed relationships are not the same people working on their "swagger" and picking up women in bars.

[Shining One]

The people pursuing healthy, serious, committed relationships are not the same people working on their "swagger" and picking up women in bars.

Are you sure about that? There are plenty of guys who want a committed relationship but can't get that first date. They then work on their "swagger" in order to get that first date.

[basil67]

Just to clarify, when is "back in the day?" Also, is this era a time you lived through/ heavily researched/are making assumptions about?

 

If it's prior to the 1960's, did you account for the fact that couples got married younger and didn't have contraception? These issues would make quite a difference as to the attitudes of young people.

 

Did you account for the fact that women couldn't earn equal pay, borrow money and weren't encouraged to go to university? If she wanted to move out of her parents home, she had to marry. As she now has choice and independence on her side, she doesn't have to marry the first chap who comes along.

 

Lastly, I agree that there were reasons that things were done the way they used to be done. For example, the reason black people suffered segregation, slavery and were not allowed to vote was because they were less intelligent and a lower breed of human. The reason women couldn't vote or earn equally was because she was not mentally equipped to make sensible decisions.

 

The fact a reason exists does not make the reason valid.

 

Edited to add: I disagree that men didn't require adequate social skills and ability to dress appropriately. They were certainly required to dress appropriately for their class of people. When I look back at old family photos, the men dressed with much more care than some men do these days. And so did the women - my mother went to a finishing school - and you don't see that happening now.

 

Is it really that bad for young people to learn how to dress well and speak to the opposite sex?

Edited September 17, 2016 by basil67

[basil67]

Still thinking about this.....it's interesting that you think the ability to talk to women isn't a necessary trait for a husband. Frankly, I want a man who can talk with me easily. And the male posters who make complaints such as "women just talk about fashion and shopping and I don't know what to say to them" would make a very poor mate indeed.

[Els]

I don't know, Gloria. I come from a more traditional culture like the one you mentioned, where the man's career/finances trumps stuff like fashion or appearance. I don't think it places 'less' pressure on men, just a different sort. I can't tell you how many male friends I've heard say that they couldn't ask out this girl that they liked, because they felt they weren't rich enough to treat her or buy her things that way they felt they should. They did suffer from insecurity and self-defeating feelings. And even when they got past the initial fear/insecurity, some of those who started out trying to woo a girl would give up once they saw that there was a richer guy gunning for her.

[Popsicle]

You would probably enjoy listening to Dr. Laura.

[Alamo657]

Ok, by now I guess people can tell from my posts that I'm sorta old fashioned and I'll preface this thread by saying, I hope people can keep an open mind and see that things were done a certain way in the past because there were some reasons behind them...

The dating scene has become ultra-competitive, and men are urged to be the most badass version of themselves if they want to attract, and keep, a woman at their side. They must be successful, fun, cool, creative.

 

Some are naturally gifted in those areas due to upbringings or genetics, others not so much, and life is tough for them.

 

In a way, it's just Darwinism at work, and i don't think there is any point in trying to deconstruct it, we simply must adapt and succeed or fail and disappear, that goes for dating and relationships as well.

 

Also, just a little anecdote from my personnal environment :

I have a female friend, 35. She is beautiful, nice and a good person. The perfect catch.

She was wildly in love with what i'd call an "alpha male" : strong career, strong personallity, ability to seduce people trough his speech.

He got her pregnant, and when she happily told him about it, he said he won't recognize the child, and in the heat of arguments, once even wished her death.

She is now raising the child alone, thankfully surrounded by friends, but try to imagine her bitterness at the whole situation.

 

Not to say that all strong alpha type guys are bad people, but they can have their faults just like the "normal" guys, and being hard at work and cool doesn't automatically upscale you into a better human being.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Alamo657