Trying to make sense of this

[katiegrl]

Buddhist, you could be right but then again you could be wrong.

 

Our own experiences don't make something true universally.

 

We also don't know.the ages of spiderowl and her guy.

 

He could be 35 and she could be 50 for all we know. And there are many beautiful 50 year old women! And 35 year old men can be mature, very mature.

 

If he were 25 and spideowl 40, I may feel differently, but he has been married for awhile so doubt he is *that* young..... I could be wrong though.

 

Reality is, there *are* in fact many older women/younger men relationships AND marriages that have worked out.

 

I still say they should meet IN PERSON and take a risk.

 

Playing it *safe* gets people absolutely no where in life, but stagnant and afraid.

 

Live life!!!!

Edited September 12, 2016 by katiegrl

[elaine567]

The big problem here is the fact that Spiderowl, by the way she is speaking here, is already emotionally involved and that engaging in a FWB would seal the deal for her.

For him, newly out of a marriage a FWB is just what he needs, he gets his ego stroked and his emotional and sexual needs met, BUT most importantly he doesn't need to put his heart on the chopping block, as no doubt it is a bit damaged.

 

It is always best to choose someone as a FWB who is NOT relationship material, so all those big feelings get held in check.

Spiderowl at 15 years older and culturally different, is definitely NOT marriage material, so she fits the bill perfectly for him.

Sex and companionship is all he is offering here, he has been very upfront, and Spiderowl if she wants more eventually from a man, and I suspect that she does, needs to forget all about this one and start knocking on some other guy's door.

[GemmaUK]

Bottom line is you don't want a FWB, you want a relationship so you've done the right thing for you.

 

You'll miss the contact for a bit but that'll soon wear off.

 

It's all a bit skewed IMO.

You haven't even met in person and there's no natural progression even just friendship wise into meeting - sounds like if he were to meet you he just wants FWB and an emotional crutch out of it. He has already told you he doesn't want a relationship.

There's no way you can know until you've met in person as to whether the attraction to sleep with each other is there - for all you know he doesn't wear deodorant! Lol!

 

When I've had chats with guys who seemed to be good friendship type material or just too good to be true (possibly progressing to something else) I always have a read back of old contact messages. Often, I'll find that all the interests and values we seem to have in common are things I've said first and he has agreed on.

Then he'd simply 'miss' my question for an elaboration and there's no details filled in about experiences etc. Turns out some grooming was going on.

 

Something else I have found is that guys that much younger tend not to worry so much about an age gap because they've shaved 5 or 10 years off their age. My ex lodger had that experience and she was initially pretty concerned that he was 7 years younger than her. Turned out 4 months later he fessed up to being 3 years older than her - he was never a bit worried about their age gap - for good reason - he had lied about it.

 

Don't feel bad for him, you did the absolute right thing for you Spider.

[Toodaloo]

The only option you had was to get rid.

 

Otherwise he would have kept on until he did get into your knickers. Then you would have felt bad about it all.

[jen1447]

I'm sorry but it just stinks of manipulation. There are always exceptions and things aren't always what they seem, sure, but we generally judge them based on our experience and instincts anyway, and what I see here is likely a falsely earnest guy trying to rationalize away an idea (and sell it to spiderowl) that serves his physical interests while compromising spiderowl's emotional ones.

 

The "you're such a great friend" + "I want nothing to do w you emotionally" + "I totally want to bang you" messages just don't square up w the package of longsuffering, genuine, considerate, wet-behind-the-ears-yet-wise-beyond-his-years, somewhat pitiable guy in need he seems to be trying to push. Srsly if I was involved in this IRL as a friend, when spiderowl went to the ladies room I'd have the "ok so don't bs me, what's really your angle here" discussion w him.

[Springsummer]

Buddhist, you could be right but then again you could be wrong.

 

I suspect her chance of being wrong is less than 1 percent.

 

OP can just FWB for fun, but don't expect anything else though.

[Springsummer]

I'm sorry but it just stinks of manipulation. There are always exceptions and things aren't always what they seem, sure, but we generally judge them based on our experience and instincts anyway, and what I see here is likely a falsely earnest guy trying to rationalize away an idea (and sell it to spiderowl) that serves his physical interests while compromising spiderowl's emotional ones.

 

The "you're such a great friend" + "I want nothing to do w you emotionally" + "I totally want to bang you" messages just don't square up w the package of longsuffering, genuine, considerate, wet-behind-the-ears-yet-wise-beyond-his-years, somewhat pitiable guy in need he seems to be trying to push. Srsly if I was involved in this IRL as a friend, when spiderowl went to the ladies room I'd have the "ok so don't bs me, what's really your angle here" discussion w him.

 

yup, this friendship thing is camouflaging.

[Buddhist]

Buddhist, you could be right but then again you could be wrong.

 

Definitely I could be wrong. But loveshack is full of posts by women who were told one thing by their love interests, chose to believe in the fairytale instead and then end up here heartbroken. My advice doesn't just come from my own experience actually, I was engaged to someone 12yrs younger than me at 40. It comes from years and years of reading about women not listening to what men are telling them and then getting heartbroken when their expectations aren't met. How many guys on here tell these women, well he did tell you....

 

When a man tells you he doesn't want a relationship, believe him. He doesn't want one......with you. The guy has been very clear about this, ignore it at your own risk. The OP is right to have reservations here because already their expectations are miles apart.

 

Sure he could conceivably change his mind, but chances are excellent he won't. I wouldn't be betting the farm on the off chance. The marriages with age gaps that work don't start out with.....I'm not looking for a relationship, I'm looking for FWB typically. They are on the same page from the beginning.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Buddhist

[spiderowl]

spiderowl, just read your original post again and you expressed confusion about feeling attraction (mutual), but not knowing where it's going.

 

My thoughts on that are -- no one knows what they want or where it's going even when they first meet in real life!

 

You have to actually date for awhile before you know that.

 

It seems like you want some sort of guarantee that this is going to work out... relationships don't work that way, you know that.

 

But first you have to meet!

 

ETA: Not to pry but are you so fearful of getting hurt, is that why you prefer on line relationships?

 

And maybe why you don't want to meet this man?

 

Not judging at all I promise.... just curious.

 

I am sort of getting that feeling.

 

I appreciate your thoughts Kategirl. I know there are no guarantees. He has already said he is not ready for a relationship. I have to respect that and I think I would be stupid not to take that seriously. It's a question of where does that leave me?

 

I have met guys in real life but have been incredibly disappointed. Some have not been very nice, some have been lovely but too slow mentally for me, and others have just been too focused on the physical to be able to think or talk about anything else. I'd rather be known as a person first. I haven't met anyone from online for a while because it seemed so hopeless. It's weird I get talking to him.

[spiderowl]

I'm sorry but it just stinks of manipulation. There are always exceptions and things aren't always what they seem, sure, but we generally judge them based on our experience and instincts anyway, and what I see here is likely a falsely earnest guy trying to rationalize away an idea (and sell it to spiderowl) that serves his physical interests while compromising spiderowl's emotional ones.

 

The "you're such a great friend" + "I want nothing to do w you emotionally" + "I totally want to bang you" messages just don't square up w the package of longsuffering, genuine, considerate, wet-behind-the-ears-yet-wise-beyond-his-years, somewhat pitiable guy in need he seems to be trying to push. Srsly if I was involved in this IRL as a friend, when spiderowl went to the ladies room I'd have the "ok so don't bs me, what's really your angle here" discussion w him.

 

I certainly take into consideration your thoughts Jen because you are so astute. The bizarre thing is he does want to engage emotionally - this is what throws me off. But, I am conscious that it may be a need for the moment but that he's not thinking ahead. It's certainly confusing.

[katiegrl]

 

When a man tells you he doesn't want a relationship, believe him. He doesn't want one......with you. The guy has been very clear about this, ignore it at your own risk. The OP is right to have reservations here because already their expectations are miles apart.

 

Sure he could conceivably change his mind, but chances are excellent he won't. I wouldn't be betting the farm on the off chance. The marriages with age gaps that work don't start out with.....I'm not looking for a relationship, I'm looking for FWB typically. They are on the same page from the beginning.

 

Buddhist I get what you're saying and even agree with you, and would follow that advice myself.

 

But that's after two people have already met in person, and have spent some time together, no?

 

I mean it's been my experience that no one really knows (including myself) what they want with a particular person UNTIL they spend time (in person) together.

 

That's my only issue here. She has emotionally connected with this man on line and from what she has posted, it's mutual.

 

He has expressed an attraction for her and vice versa.

 

He has expressed interest in meeting her in person.... and becoming FWBs.

 

But again he has NOT even met her, so while he is saying all he is ready for is FWB, that could all change once he meets her IN PERSON and they spend some time together.

 

On the other hand, they could meet, feel no attraction at all in person and not even want FWB!

 

I mean anything is possible, but first things first.

 

MEET IN PERSON! Spend some time together. Hell he could fall in love with her, it's been known to happen, it happened to me with my ex.

 

He was not looking for anything other than some casual fun (sex) when we met (he had just ended a LTR not too long before we met), but after two nights together he asked me to be exclusive and we were together the next SIX YEARS!

 

I dunno perhaps I am the eternal optimist of the group and a bit of a risk taker.

 

I am not afraid to take a risk because I know no matter what, even if i get hurt, I will pick myself up, shake that shyt off, and carry on.

 

And learn something from the experience.

 

spiderowl, do whatever you feel is best for you, but don't NOT do it because you are afraid of taking a risk and getting hurt.

 

Not everything in life turns out the way we initially thought it would, in fact often times it ends up turning out the exact opposite of what we initially thought.

 

And if in the end you get hurt, so what? Will you die? No. You do what I do. Pick yourself up, shake that shyt off and carry on. Learn something from the experience.

 

In any event, best of luck as your move forward whatever you decide.

Edited September 13, 2016 by katiegrl

[jen1447]

I certainly take into consideration your thoughts Jen because you are so astute. The bizarre thing is he does want to engage emotionally - this is what throws me off. But, I am conscious that it may be a need for the moment but that he's not thinking ahead. It's certainly confusing.

 

Ok let's get a summary here - current state of affairs is that you've shut him down, right? So there's no action to be taken at this point anymore, and your main issues are that you don't understand it all and you feel bad for letting him down as a friend. Is that right?

 

If so we can skip the speculation stuff and just get on w giving you comfort hugs.

[gaius]

There's nothing wrong with the age gap spider, I'm with the most incredible woman I've ever met who happens to be older than me and we work together exceptionally well. But you do have this thing where you drift towards men who are unavailable in more ways than one and this guy seems to be the same thing if he's already talking about how he's not ready for a relationship.

 

At best it will probably turn into one of those situations where you're constantly questioning what's going on until it finally just peters out, after you haven't really gone anywhere together. =/ Until you find a way to adjust what you're looking for and hone in on a guy who's actually available it will most likely just be a repeating pattern.

[Weezy1973]

Question OP - did you tell this guy the bolded below at any point?

 

I got chatting to a guy online who is younger than me. We could not see each other (no pictures as it wasn't a dating site), only chat. We got on really well and both of us felt a connection. I was only looking for someone to chat to because I feel I've given up on ever having a romantic relationship.

 

If he felt you have given up on ever having a relationship, perhaps he would be confused by the thoughts you've expressed here. It sounds like you have no interest in having a relationship, but you feel you don't want to move forward because this guy isn't ready for a relationship. Isn't that exactly what you should be looking for?

 

Or are you actually wanting to be in a relationship, but you're just too afraid to admit it?

[spiderowl]

Thank you all for your input. I confess I am weak-willed and have relented and we are in touch again. I think I need to see how this goes one way or the other. I won't expect anything; I think that is best.

 

About having given up on a romantic relationship, yes in some ways I feel I have given up on finding 'the one'. I am too fussy I guess and I don't want to end up in a worse situation with someone who is hard work. I have done enough coping with difficult people and poverty.

 

I rarely feel I'm on the same wavelength as any guys I meet (they wouldn't want to be, lol) so there is only a remote chance I would click with someone. If this just ends up with a sad loss, then that's pretty much the way things have been anyway.

 

I have no idea if I'm doing the right thing or not, but we may meet soon.

[katiegrl]

 

I have no idea if I'm doing the right thing or not, but we may meet soon.

 

Well you KNOW how I feel about it spiderowl, I think it's awesome!

 

And YES, after talking all this time and emotionally connecting, you owe it to each other to at least meet in person... and see how it goes.

 

Good luck, enjoy and keep us posted!!

 

Fingers crossed it all works out for you the way you hope it does!

[pteromom]

I certainly take into consideration your thoughts Jen because you are so astute. The bizarre thing is he does want to engage emotionally - this is what throws me off. But, I am conscious that it may be a need for the moment but that he's not thinking ahead. It's certainly confusing.

 

Remember that he gets as much out of your emotional connection as you do. He gets to have deep conversations and share his innermost thoughts and feel like someone understands him - just like you do.

 

You also know he is interested in sex.

 

However, what he DOESN'T want is the commitment part. He only wants the parts that fill his needs, without having to feel responsible for someone else.

 

It's not that hard to understand, since he is going through a divorce. He is coming off the worst outcome of commitment, and it leaves a bitter taste in his mouth. He is in no hurry to go back and do that again. Yet he still gets lonely and still has the need for CONNECTION. He just doesn't want the ties.

 

This is likely not going anywhere romantically for you. And if it does, get ready for some major baggage since he hasn't had any time on his own after divorcing. Add in the 15 year age difference, and nahhh...

 

You have 3 choices:

- Accept what you have now and understand that's all it is.

- Go for his FWB offer, understanding that it's just temporary.

- Walk away completely and let go.

[pteromom]

I confess I am weak-willed and have relented and we are in touch again. I think I need to see how this goes one way or the other. I won't expect anything; I think that is best.

 

...

 

I have no idea if I'm doing the right thing or not, but we may meet soon.

 

Knowing that you are weak-willed, be very careful if you meet. He's going to be pushing for sex, and he will use all the emotional connection you've built to try to make it happen.

 

DO NOT GO THERE unless you want to even knowing that he doesn't want a real relationship.

[Buddhist]

Buddhist I get what you're saying and even agree with you, and would follow that advice myself.

 

I dunno perhaps I am the eternal optimist of the group and a bit of a risk taker.

 

There's being an optimist and there's reading into things which aren't there. He didn't say lets meet and we'll see. He flat out said no relationship. 'Right now" is just nice words to not sound too harsh. That's not taking a risk, it's standing on a 6 lane highway blindfolded.

 

I am not afraid to take a risk because I know no matter what, even if i get hurt, I will pick myself up, shake that shyt off, and carry on.

 

Good for you honey. I took a risk and ended up on heavy medication and a lifetime of therapy to look forward to. Despite what we think, some stuff isn't easy to shake off. I'm no shrinking violet that gets my knickers in a twist over nothing. I got hit with a B-Double. Don't know if I can ever love again. The further in life you go the more likely this is to happen with trauma. It's easy to shake off at 20, you have years on your side. Not so simple when your heading towards 50 or 60 and realise your dating pool is dying (quite literally). Every year counts, hell every months counts and you don't have a lot of tolerance for time wasting. Mortality is an interesting thing. Let me know when you get a little closer to that hole in the ground if you are so willing to jump off cliffs.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Buddhist

[katiegrl]

 

I took a risk and ended up on heavy medication and a lifetime of therapy to look forward to. Despite what we think, some stuff isn't easy to shake off. I'm no shrinking violet that gets my knickers in a twist over nothing. I got hit with a B-Double. Don't know if I can ever love again. The further in life you go the more likely this is to happen with trauma. It's easy to shake off at 20, you have years on your side. Not so simple when your heading towards 50 or 60 and realise your dating pool is dying (quite literally). Every year counts, hell every months counts and you don't have a lot of tolerance for time wasting. Mortality is an interesting thing. Let me know when you get a little closer to that hole in the ground if you are so willing to jump off cliffs.

 

Buddhist you are one of my favorite posters and have helped me out in the past.... so I am truly sorry to hear what you've been through.

 

Just wanted to clarify though that I am not so willing to jump off cliffs either, hell I have nexted more guys than I care to count (perhaps even prematurely) because I felt something was off. I am pretty intuitive and perceptive about this stuff.

 

In spiderowl's case though, I just thought they both owed it to each to meet in person, that's all.

 

Spend a little time together in person and see what, if anything, developed. How could that hurt?

 

We all know everything can change once you meet in person.... or maybe it won't and after meeting and spending time, he will still only want FWB in which case she walks.

 

No harm no foul.

 

I just don't see how that can hurt.

[spiderowl]

I want to thank you all for your comments and support. We are in touch again. We were going to meet possibly with a view to more but in the end I decided I was too emotionally involved to risk being more than friends.

 

I think it is a big risk, given the age gap and possible rebound situation. The difficulty for me is I'm not that interested in chatting to anyone else. He doesn't seem to be either. It's just typical that when I get to know someone where there is such a connection (which we both acknowledge) that there are other things that cause problems.

 

I know no relationship is perfect but does it need to start with the the foundation of proper relationship? I feel so but there are so many relationships that started with a less-then-perfect set-up that seem to have worked that I can't see any formula. There are fwbs who become more. People who sleep with strangers on the first date who end up in a relationship. People rebounding who end up marrying again. All the things advised against have worked out for someone.

 

Obviously I need to give up on the idea of a relationship as it seems a far-fetched fantasy somehow. Real people have faults and imperfect circumstances.

Edited September 18, 2016 by spiderowl

[jen1447]

No 'normal' foundation necessarily spiderowl - lots of things come from strange or unlikely scenarios. Then again sometimes nothing comes from perfect ones.

 

More important here I think isn't some notion of cosmic right of wrong but just your instincts and common sense, which by what you said was pointing at sth being off.

 

Not sure why you have to give up on the idea of a relationship ....?

[spiderowl]

Thanks Jen, yes instinct always seems to be the best bet. We are planning to meet but I don't know if it will happen. He is nervous about meeting.

 

I said I should give up on a relationship because I just can't see it happening. The chances of getting into a situation where I feel attracted to a guy and vice-versa, where he is available and not too far away, as well as interested in the same kind of relationship as me, seems so remote.

 

I just spend too much time working to survive and pay bills and, due to health reasons, I'm tired the rest of the time. Even if I found a guy who ticked the above boxes, he's not likely to want to take on someone with dodgy health.

[jen1447]

Thanks Jen, yes instinct always seems to be the best bet. We are planning to meet but I don't know if it will happen. He is nervous about meeting.

 

I said I should give up on a relationship because I just can't see it happening. The chances of getting into a situation where I feel attracted to a guy and vice-versa, where he is available and not too far away, as well as interested in the same kind of relationship as me, seems so remote.

 

I just spend too much time working to survive and pay bills and, due to health reasons, I'm tired the rest of the time. Even if I found a guy who ticked the above boxes, he's not likely to want to take on someone with dodgy health.

 

That might all be true but put it this way - it never helps to go in w a defeatist attitude. Best way to approach things is just be who you are, be content in who you are, and let the chips fall where they may. If it happens, great, if it doesn't, you'll survive. (And I know it takes work to get in the right headspace so I'm not just saying "flip the page and start being that way tomorrow," but it's sth to strive for. You can do it - I can tell just reading you on here you're a strong woman.)

[spiderowl]

Thanks Jen, that's really helpful. It sounds a really good approach rather than being entirely negative like I tend to be.