Trying to make sense of this

[spiderowl]

I'm hoping someone can see this clearer than me. I didn't expect to be in this situation at all.

 

I got chatting to a guy online who is younger than me. We could not see each other (no pictures as it wasn't a dating site), only chat. We got on really well and both of us felt a connection. I was only looking for someone to chat to because I feel I've given up on ever having a romantic relationship. I rarely feel enough of a connection or attraction so had got bored and disillusioned with online dating or meeting people socially even.

 

This guy is separated (genuinely) and is still coming to terms with it. I can understand that.

 

So we were company for each other. Then he started to get interested in the idea of being fwb. This didn't sit well with me at all and I didn't want to be an older woman he passed the time with until he met someone his own age. He is adamant he is not interested in women his age and does not want a 'relationship'. He does want a strong friendship though. Fair enough. I assume he will want a relationship in the future with someone, maybe when he's got over the loss of his marriage.

 

We have been chatting for quite some time now. We have seen each other online and he is atractive. He seemed to like me too. He wants to be my friend, is from a different culture and has a strong idea abou the importance of friendship. I was happy to be his friend.

 

He did blur the lines when chatting about attraction and how he thinks about me. I didn't really take this seriously for a while, but he seemed genuine. At one point I thought well maybe we could just have some fun together as we have an real emotional bond, but we haven't met and it got a bit awkward over that for reasons I won't go into here as they would identify said guy (but aren't relevant).

 

Because the conversation tended to drift, I was beginning to feel it could easily turn into sex chat and me feeling used, so I drew a line and said we should be friends - which he has respected. But, the difficulty for me is the bond we seem to have. He wants to chat and text regularly - every day - and for us to share meaningful things - feelings, emotions, what matters, pains - a kind of emotional sharing I would really only have with someone I was in a relationship with. He does not want a 'relationship', not necessarily with me but with anyone (apparently).

 

To cut a long story short, I was getting more and more confused about what this non-relationship is. To me, it is too intense for friendship, though I cannot deny that people share all sorts of things with friends. I believe he is very loyal and would continue to be so. But I cannot cope with being such close friends with someone I am attracted to - and who has expressed attraction to me - without knowing where it is going. It doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

 

I decided it had to end and so we are not going to be in touch any more. He sees friendship as something lasting and powerful, the closest of relationships. I am just severely confused! I feel bad about stopping communication and incredibly sad, but don't know what else to do. Is it usual for someone to want such a sharing relationship with someone they view as a friend or is this guy more mixed up than me?

Edited September 10, 2016 by spiderowl

[spiderowl]

Any thoughts? I'm not used to guys wanting such intense friendships who are not interested in more. It's very confusing.

[jen1447]

Hmmm ....take this w a grain of salt bc you know him and I don't in the slightest but it sounds to me like he's working an angle - the sex w/out commitment/attachment and close friends things just aren't from the same universe, so I wonder if the friends thing isn't so much real as a tool to get some tickle. (He might even be pulling a fast one on himself too, fwiw. Not all plays are totally overt and 'evil.')

[spiderowl]

Thanks for your input Jen, I do feel alone with this and pretty confused. I wish I could see this from the outside but you never can when in the situation.

 

He has been straightforward about suggesting a fwb situation. His reasons for not wanting a relationship seem to be lack of belief in them any more - understandable. I honestly feel he needs the emotional relationship more, which is what is totally wrecking my head. How can this be?

 

He is very attractive and could find and date gorgeous women with very little problem, but seems adamant he is attracted to older women. There is nothing to stop him finding a gorgeous girlfriend his age for whatever kind of fun he wanted.

 

It's difficult being emotionally close to someone if it is not going anywhere. I would have thought it would be difficult for him too, but apart from me not becoming a fwb, it doesn't seem to be.

 

I've given up on this now but feel really guilty as I know he wanted to keep in touch and he needs a friend, but it is seriously wrecking me.

 

Would others have done the same?

Edited September 10, 2016 by spiderowl

[spiderowl]

Should you give up on a friend in these circumstances? I feel bad but can't see any way round it.

[Springsummer]

Should you give up on a friend in these circumstances? I feel bad but can't see any way round it.

 

I think you did the right thing IF you don't want FWB.

 

I don't think man and woman can be really close friend, especially one or both are attracted to each other.

[Springsummer]

How much younger he is? sure there will be no future for you two? who knows if he really love you, he probably doesn't mind?

[Springsummer]

I would have thought it would be difficult for him too, but apart from me not becoming a fwb, it doesn't seem to be.

 

Maybe here lies your answer.

[spiderowl]

Thanks, I don't want to be fwb because I know I would feel too involved with him. I feel too involved as it is because he wants to talk and share so much.

 

I don't think there is a future for us as there is a 15 year age gap. He doesn't seem put off by that but I really feel like he has all the cards here and I can't see the point in making myself more vulnerable if he is only interested in friendship.

 

The question is I guess, what is friendship in these circumstances? I feel guilty because he is quite insistent that friendship is important and strong. I'm definitely the one not being a friend a the moment and I'm very conscious of that.

[jen1447]

Should you give up on a friend in these circumstances? I feel bad but can't see any way round it.

 

How much of a friend is he tho really? I can see how you'd carry some guilt if you let down your friend of 17 years etc. but this guy's been in the picture for a few months? And now he's got what sounds like a scheme he's pitching at you ....eh, I wouldn't feel too bad about it, you don't exactly owe him anything but you do owe it to yourself to protect your heart.

 

I'd say the most likely outcome here if you didn't end it and took him up on his offer is he'd lose enthusiasm at some point (someone else in the picture, 'true love,' etc.), meanwhile you'd have invested emotionally just like you're afraid you would, and then when the roles are reversed you can bet your ass he'd say sth like "sorry but I can't help you w that" before turning his back on you and leaving you in the ditch.

 

Noble as it sounds and seems, sacrificing yourself for someone else is almost always a loser.

[spiderowl]

Thanks Jen, I think you are probably right.

 

The only thing that makes me wonder is the amazing connection we had. We hit it off within the first few sentences and have very similar interests and ways of understanding the world. The meaningful relationships I've had have always started in this way. It is has been very unusual and striking from the start.

 

He also seems a very innocent character, a little naive, and has been totally genuine and honest. He has not tried to persuade me of anything and has always been respectful. I feel really quite cruel not being able to continue.

 

In some ways, he reminds me of someone I know who has Asperger's and who is honest to the point of it being damaging to himself. He is also literal and would quite honestly think a friend with benefits meant what it said, a true friend with benefits. A relationship could be something else, a formal arrangement like a marriage. Or maybe I am just trying to fool myself? I don't know. His profession does make it likely he falls within the autistic spectrum.

 

Somewhere deep down I feel I would end up hurt, but at the moment I know I am hurting him by shutting off.

Edited September 11, 2016 by spiderowl

[jen1447]

He also seems a very innocent character, a little naive, and has been totally genuine and honest. He has not tried to persuade me of anything and has always been respectful.

 

That's a little incongruous too tho hon - "let's be the best of friends, and also have no strings attached sex" doesn't square up well w naivete.

 

I don't want to make you feel bad or question your instincts but that whole rose colored glasses thing can be pretty powerful. And even if this was totally honest and straightforward offer, it still doesn't sound like it'd be good for you. Ppl can fall pretty hard under those circumstances, and the knights and princes who came off so amazing at the start can really just be ogres - no diff than most of humanity in their egoism and self-centeredness.

 

If you're gonna load in w somebody in a way that's at all shaky or risky, it's really best to have a good solid baseline of who they are first, which unfortunately means knowing them a good long time. I know that doesn't match the nature of most romantic happenstance but it doesn't change the truth - ppl you don't know very well can and often will screw you over pretty heavily. Even ppl you do know will do it from time to time. I'm all for taking risks in life but it's best when they're calculated ones, not the sort where you load in on an investment w 100% of your life savings.

[Gloria25]

I don't see what's so confusing here...

 

He wants sex and companionship without having to commit. And when I say "commit" I mean marriage.

 

People date all the freakin' time. They drag it out for years, never marry, go from person to person and want to label it as something better than a FWB, when all they're doing is pretty much the same - passing time with someone until the day they will settle down ("marriage").

 

At least this guy, and me are honest about it. We're not dating people and wasting time for years and then break up cuz it "didn't work out". We are upfront, we want company but don't wanna sleep around. We're not ready for marriage, kids and the whole white picket fence yet.

 

Can we have close connections ant to people we have these "non-relationships" with? Sure. Again, we're not looking for random strangers to sleep around and yes, over the years, even for something casual the person I'm gonna do it with has to have certain qualities about them.

 

I do get your concern. You ask, how can you be so close to someone who upfront sees no future with you. Will you get heartbroken after such an investment? Maybe....

 

Why?

 

It depends on the maturity and understanding of the parties. With my 6 yr guy, he lived with someone - the mother of his kid. It didn't bother me much cuz I was busy with school, work, and my "life". Also, he took care of my "needs". So, as long as my "needs" were being met, I could care less how much time he was with her or anything.

 

My 42yr old FWB (before I got with my 26yr old dude)? He was married, and again, I didn't care cuz he took care of my needs. When we set up a date/meet, he didn't play silly games. He said upfront what he wanted. Yes, I did get attached cuz he eventually decided to separate and it was a gut-punch when he didn't decide to stick with me up on the divorce, it burned, but still I kinda understood that he didn't wanna be locked down with anyone coming out of a horrible decade of marriage. He also was very nice. He'd bring flowers, we'd go out and do stuff people dating would to - even if I didn't see him more than once a week. He'd spend the weekend, fix stuff for me, etc.

 

My recent 26 yr old dude? It was endless me getting frustrated cuz while I was trying to be understanding on the toll it takes on a couple when one is studying law and for the bar exam, I think he was just immature, rude, and probably seeing other people and/or still in connection with his ex. I was more upfront about trying to get us to establish what we wanted - but he was just "let's just see how this goes". I mean, I know he wasn't looking for marriage, but gosh darn, he wasn't as specific as this guy you met online about what he wanted/expected. So thank your lucky stars you met someone so articulate, upfront, and clear about what they want. I mean, my dude interpreted simply setting up a date as me trying to control him or keep tabs on him or something. He then thought me proposing a move in was me trying to marry him or something. Worst, he didn't even have a discussion with me about it. He just made assumptions, got quiet, and broke it off.

 

I was just thinking about this last nite. I sure wish I could have some company. I don't wanna sleep around. I wish I could just call up a dude, we do our thing, and I can get back to my 10 things I gotta do this weekend. Why can't people just be more fluid? I mean, if you want a FWB, they wanna treat you like less than a hooker....especially if you're the woman in the FWB. They want you to sit around and wait for them to become available and if you dare call them and/or wanna spend more time with them than they do, they think you wanna tie them down. Then, other guys think you're "using" them. They don't like it when you, a woman, says you don't wanna see them more than once or twice a week...ok whatever.

 

I just want what I had with my 6 yr guy and 42yr old FWB. Someone I see once a week, we are respectful, we get along, no games, if they're with someone else, they don't hide it and they're not sleeping around. I don't wanna have an endless strings of ONS, some guy who just sees me for a month, and/or some guy still hooked up on an ex and wastes my time. Now, if the guy wants to marry me, I'm down for that cuz I'm capable of being with one person - cuz when I'm with a guy, regardless if it's a FWB, I'm with him. The only reason I'm aprehensive about marrying is cuz I'm afraid to trust guys with my finances and heart, and I'm also afraid that if I'm not popping out three kids, the marriage won't last. Seems like most people believe marriage and having kids go hand-in-hand and if that ain't happening, they're out. Sad that they need kids to keep the marriage going on for 18 years instead of being invested in each other and sharing what life has to offer.

[Springsummer]

How much of a friend is he tho really? I can see how you'd carry some guilt if you let down your friend of 17 years etc. but this guy's been in the picture for a few months? And now he's got what sounds like a scheme he's pitching at you ....eh, I wouldn't feel too bad about it, you don't exactly owe him anything but you do owe it to yourself to protect your heart.

 

I'd say the most likely outcome here if you didn't end it and took him up on his offer is he'd lose enthusiasm at some point (someone else in the picture, 'true love,' etc.), meanwhile you'd have invested emotionally just like you're afraid you would, and then when the roles are reversed you can bet your ass he'd say sth like "sorry but I can't help you w that" before turning his back on you and leaving you in the ditch.

 

Noble as it sounds and seems, sacrificing yourself for someone else is almost always a loser.

 

So well said!

[katiegrl]

spiderowl, maybe I missed this but did you ever meet in person?

 

The idea of NSS, FWB seems a bit premature before even meeting.

 

I realize you have developed an emotional bond and even sexual attraction on line, but that could all change after meeting in person, you know this, right?

 

If you have met in person, then this post is moot obviously.

[Satu]

When a thing doesn't seem right, it isn't right.

 

Always trust your feelings; even when you don't like what you're feeling.

 

 

Take care.

[spiderowl]

Thanks for your thoughts, really appreciated

 

I do agree with you Gloria that it could be something wonderful and he is just being entirely honest. I do feel he is honest. I don't feel easy about it being just friend with benefits though. If he really does like me that much, then why put up a barrier? I can understand he is not long out of a marriage (a year) so it is a weird place to be for him.

 

No I haven't met him in person, only via skype. I think my wariness and his lack of confidence got in the way there. But, we could have met and had agreed to but then I got cold feet because of the foundation of all this. We have confused each other endlessly.

 

There is a cultural difference and I do think he really believes that fwb is good friends with an added bonus. I don't know if he is aware of the different connotations here because he uses the word quite happily and innocently. Maybe, if we ever speak again, I should discuss the meaning with him. He does not see it as anything offensive or demeaning and has been utterly respectful and kind.

[Gloria25]

How much of a friend is he tho really? I can see how you'd carry some guilt if you let down your friend of 17 years etc. but this guy's been in the picture for a few months? And now he's got what sounds like a scheme he's pitching at you ....eh, I wouldn't feel too bad about it, you don't exactly owe him anything but you do owe it to yourself to protect your heart.

 

I'd say the most likely outcome here if you didn't end it and took him up on his offer is he'd lose enthusiasm at some point (someone else in the picture, 'true love,' etc.), meanwhile you'd have invested emotionally just like you're afraid you would, and then when the roles are reversed you can bet your ass he'd say sth like "sorry but I can't help you w that" before turning his back on you and leaving you in the ditch.

 

Noble as it sounds and seems, sacrificing yourself for someone else is almost always a loser.

 

spiderowl, maybe I missed this but did you ever meet in person?

 

The idea of NSS, FWB seems a bit premature before even meeting.

 

I realize you have developed an emotional bond and even sexual attraction on line, but that could all change after meeting in person, you know this, right?

 

If you have met in person, then this post is moot obviously.

 

A "scheme", "too soon"?

 

I'm sorry, but by the third date and especially before sex happens people should be upfront about what they want from dating. It's simple - either it's "companionship" or "marriage".

 

How so?

 

Let's say they're ready to be married. They got a decent job/career, money in the bank, car, etc. When they are going out in the dating world, they're serious. They're not looking to pass time. When they spend time with you or anyone, they are trying to see if you got the qualities in a woman they want to be the mother of their kids and wife. So, let's say you can't budget/balance a checkbook, while if he was just looking for "companionship" and passing time, it wouldn't be a red flag...if he's looking to settle down he'd probably pass you by cuz who wants to share their finances with a wife who can't even balance her own checkbook as a single woman?

 

So, it's not too soon. This guy isn't playing the "let's just hang out and see where this goes" game. He's not running a scheme. He's telling you upfront he ain't marrying you or anyone. He wants sex and companionship.

 

I don't know why everyone is so offended and/or suspicious. How would people like it if he/she feigned genuine interest, only a few months and/or two years down the road dump you cuz 'it didn't work out' when the whole time he/she knew that at that point in his life he wasn't ready to settle down with you or anyone?

[spiderowl]

Thanks Gloria, I do agree people should be upfront in what they are looking for. I can totally understand someone recently out of a long-term relationship hesitating to get into another one. There is also the risk of it just being a rebound.

 

I suppose what concerns me most perhaps is the age gap. It's a real pity because we got on so well. It really had become a situation where when I got any news or he did, we would tell each other first. We were texting first thing in the morning and on and off during the day. We were sharing feelings about lots of things. To me, that is pretty much how a relationship is founded, but I can't presume the same for him.

 

I feel so sad now

Edited September 11, 2016 by spiderowl

[katiegrl]

Thanks Gloria, I do agree people should be upfront in what they are looking for. I can totally understand someone recently out of a long-term relationship hesitating to get into another one. There is also the risk of it just being a rebound.

 

I suppose what concerns me most perhaps is the age gap. It's a real pity because we got on so well. It really had become a situation where when I got any news or he did, we would tell each other first. We were texting first thing in the morning and on and off during the day. We were sharing feelings about lots of things. To me, that is pretty much how a relationship is founded, but I can't presume the same for him.

 

I feel so sad now

 

How large is the age gap?

 

Frankly, I wouldn't give that a second thought, how you get on with each other emotionally and otherwise is the most important thing.

 

It is very rare to find that type of connection, at least for me it is.

 

Why don't you just meet him in person and see what develops?

 

The hard part is over, you have already bonded... do it!

 

You only live once, as they say.

[spiderowl]

Thanks Katie, the age gap is 15 years and I feel anxious about it even though he doesn't seem to be. He says he is attracted to older women (mind you, most testosterone-fuelled young males say that in my experience of chatting online so I take that with a pinch of salt!).

 

I agree it's a rare connection. I feel if I carry on, then I'm accepting a kind of limited friends only situation, which doesn't seem ideal for either of us, or a fwb situation, or nothing at all. I've chosen nothing at all but I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing. I miss him.

 

Of course, he may not be missing me much or care too much how I feel. He may only have wanted a fwb thing, though he seems to have a better ethic towards bonding than me as he believes friendship is the strongest bond. ?? But what if it is a female friend who likes you as more than friend? How confusing can it get?

 

So I feel really mean about leaving a friend like this. It doesn't feel right, but then neither do the other options.

[Springsummer]

I suppose what concerns me most perhaps is the age gap. It's a real pity because we got on so well. It really had become a situation where when I got any news or he did, we would tell each other first. We were texting first thing in the morning and on and off during the day. We were sharing feelings about lots of things. To me, that is pretty much how a relationship is founded, but I can't presume the same for him.

 

I feel so sad now

 

Sharing without caring means nothing, I think, because it could also means he does not have much friends or someone to talk to. Heck, I could talk to anybody who bother to rent a sympathetic ears anonymously about anything if I know there will be no consequence.

 

A question to ask instead I think is if that person really cares about you, something about you that he or she is crazy about.

[katiegrl]

Thanks Katie, the age gap is 15 years and I feel anxious about it even though he doesn't seem to be. He says he is attracted to older women (mind you, most testosterone-fuelled young males say that in my experience of chatting online so I take that with a pinch of salt!).

 

I agree it's a rare connection. I feel if I carry on, then I'm accepting a kind of limited friends only situation, which doesn't seem ideal for either of us, or a fwb situation, or nothing at all. I've chosen nothing at all but I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing. I miss him.

 

Of course, he may not be missing me much or care too much how I feel. He may only have wanted a fwb thing, though he seems to have a better ethic towards bonding than me as he believes friendship is the strongest bond. ?? But what if it is a female friend who likes you as more than friend? How confusing can it get?

 

So I feel really mean about leaving a friend like this. It doesn't feel right, but then neither do the other options.

 

All this talk about friends, FWB is so premature though.

 

You have to meet in person to truly know how you both feel and what you want.

 

As I said, you have already emotionally bonded, have great energy, and come on you know he felt it too, we women just know these things, we can feel it. The strong intuition we are blessed with.

 

And it seems you have had these types of on line interactions before so you know the difference.

 

What are you afraid of? Forget the age difference! Joan Collins married a man 35 younger than she is and they are still married 20 years later!

 

So what if you meet and there is no in person chemistry (doubtful imo)?

 

Then at least you know and can move on instead of living with this "what if" feeling for the rest of your life.

[katiegrl]

spiderowl, just read your original post again and you expressed confusion about feeling attraction (mutual), but not knowing where it's going.

 

My thoughts on that are -- no one knows what they want or where it's going even when they first meet in real life!

 

You have to actually date for awhile before you know that.

 

It seems like you want some sort of guarantee that this is going to work out... relationships don't work that way, you know that.

 

But first you have to meet!

 

ETA: Not to pry but are you so fearful of getting hurt, is that why you prefer on line relationships?

 

And maybe why you don't want to meet this man?

 

Not judging at all I promise.... just curious.

 

I am sort of getting that feeling.

Edited September 12, 2016 by katiegrl

[Buddhist]

Thanks Katie, the age gap is 15 years and I feel anxious about it even though he doesn't seem to be.

 

With an age gap like that believe him. He doesn't want a relationship with you, only sex and friendship. It's not going anywhere. Basically he can see that in time he will want a relationship again....with someone his own age. In the meantime you'll do. Take it from someone who's dated a lot younger, they're fine to have sex and companionship with you but as far as GF material goes, no thanks they'll take someone their own age. Men, aren't like women. They don't make concessions, they believe and expect to have their entitlements, which is typically the hottest, youngest individual they can find and get.

 

Older women are just an experience for them. If you want to date that young you'll have to realise that FWBs is what it will be. If that's what it will be, then don't allow the emotional entanglement because you're the one who'll be hurt by that. Take of the rose coloured glasses for a moment, he won't suddenly become Prince Charming of the sort that will stick around. He'll take all the comfort he can get now and meet his one true love probably 6 months to a year from now and you won't even see the back of him it will happen so fast.

 

You mention he's foreign? I've met a few from different cultures who come across utterly charming, naive and loveable. The reality of who they really are is somewhat different though. Take care.