Conflict-avoidant Men

[elaine567]

As women, I sometimes think we tend to overanalyze men and attribute their behavior to a variety of reasons,when, at the end of the day the either don't care enough or are focused on their own needs.

 

Agreed.

 

"Her diary:

’Today, I noticed that my husband was behaving kind of strange. We had a reservation for dinner at our favorite place and were due to meet there in the evening.

I went shopping with my girls and I showed up in the restaurant a little late, my fault. He was a little less talkative than usual and I noticed something was bothering him. At first I thought he was irritated by my late arrival but later I realized the problem was much, so much deeper. I suggested to him that we move to a less crowded place so we could talk. In a cozy little coffee shop I looked him in the eyes and asked what was wrong. He seemed to ignore my feelings and said that nothing was wrong. I kept asking him if I had done something to let him down but he just kept saying that he was not upset and I had nothing to worry about.

On our way back home I said ’I love you’. He smiled at me but continued to focus on driving. Now I really can’t find an explanation for this situation at all. Why, why didn’t he just say that he loved me back? We arrived home safely but I was devastated. I couldn’t help but notice that he tried to keep his distance and acted like I didn’t exist at all. He was just sitting there and watching his favorite show. I said ’Good night’ and went to bed.

After about 15 minutes he entered our room and jumped under the blanket. Soon he fell asleep. As for me... I couldn’t sleep at all trying to understand what was going on with my husband. I really feel like I’m losing him. My marriage is probably over...And my whole life is falling apart...’

 

 

His diary:

’Today I couldn’t start my motorcycle. Something must be seriously wrong with the engine, but I couldn’t figure it out completely. I think I should take it to the mechanic...’

https://brightside.me/inspiration-relationships/the-real-difference-between-men-and-women-130455/

[Rockflower]

Agreed.

 

https://brightside.me/inspiration-relationships/the-real-difference-between-men-and-women-130455/

 

I don't disagree with this at all ...

 

But true conflict-avoidant men / women are not just lazy ... I've had enough experience and visibility of it to see the difference.

 

C-A are fearful, not just lazy.

[salparadise]

I didn't say it does.

However, conflict avoidance doesn't avoid conflict ... it creates further conflict.

 

Authenticity may create some conflict in the short term but avoids it long-term and is about honesty and truth.

 

Right. I'm not saying conflict avoidance is desirable, just that it doesn't imply these other things. Keep in mind, the context here is women sleeping with married men and analyzing other's motives.

[NTV]

I think everybody's conflict avoidant to some extent... I mean don't we all do a cost-benefit analysis on whether these arguments going to be worth it? or are we planning on arguing about every little thing?

 

If people say conflict avoidance is a bad thing but conflict seeking would be even worse, wouldn't it?

 

Really I think there's a big difference between a male and a female version of conflict in most cases.... or I guess in general. If you ask men with their definition of conflict is, most likely it's going to involve some sort of physical violence. I know for me it does.

 

I also know during any argument with the wife... I'm constantly doing the cost-benefit analysis. Is the 30-45 minutes it takes to hash this out going to be worth the outcome? Is she going to try to make me pay for arguing with her later ? (Probably)

 

I guess this is just my pov. Not sure if it helps or not.

[Rockflower]

OK - but aside from the truly narcissistic ones (which is based upon power due to fears anyway) ... and again I talk of tendencies not absolutes.

 

Every single man or woman I know who has had / had an A showed clear signs / clearly demonstrated / expressed their inability to effectively say No or ask for what they really wanted from their SO. They may appear to be in control of their life, but not at home where it really counts ...

 

One I didn't know had a A, when I was told, it all made sense.

 

 

Just like the 'Big Ugly Thing'.

[Rockflower]

I think everybody's conflict avoidant to some extent... I mean don't we all do a cost-benefit analysis on whether these arguments going to be worth it? or are we planning on arguing about every little thing?

 

If people say conflict avoidance is a bad thing but conflict seeking would be even worse, wouldn't it?

 

Really I think there's a big difference between a male and a female version of conflict in most cases.... or I guess in general. If you ask men with their definition of conflict is, most likely it's going to involve some sort of physical violence. I know for me it does.

 

I also know during any argument with the wife... I'm constantly doing the cost-benefit analysis. Is the 30-45 minutes it takes to hash this out going to be worth the outcome? Is she going to try to make me pay for arguing with her later ? (Probably)

 

I guess this is just my pov. Not sure if it helps or not.

 

Thanks NTV - have you or your W had an A?

[elaine567]

I

C-A are fearful, not just lazy.

 

I agree, but are we labelling some of these MM as conflict-avoidant when they are just lazy and can't be bothered?

Marriage not that great, but never going to do anything about it.

"Hello pretty lady, fancy some fun?"

 

Or maybe to their mind there is no conflict to avoid, they are going nowhere.

The wife is fine, the kids are well looked after and life is sweet and now an OW completes the set up.

[Rockflower]

No - I mean fearful.

 

There is a difference. I know men who have worked their @rses off for their family, but ended up in A ... because that was the only way they knew (that is NOT an excuse), they were - still are - too frightened to stand up to women that they have some investment in / that know how to press their buttons, if subconsciously..

As nice as the women might be, if you actually watched what was going on, the women 'wore the trousers', without being overtly mean. However, over years and years, the man was worn down by not being himself. If only he was able to say 'I don't like that Big Ugly Thing and I don't want it here', instead of 'OK" or 'alright' ...

 

If the "is the 30-45 minutes it takes to hash this out going to be worth the outcome?" cost/benefit analysis question is deemed increasingly valid, think how many Big Ugly Things sit around and build up over time...the outcome will eventually be no more room - for giving in.

How many men say "I want an easy life"?

[waterwoman]

This is interesting. I think that conflict-avoidance can be the cause of the unbalance in the first place. A spouse that never takes charge because he/she can't bear to face any kind of conflict leads to the other spouse filling the gap - regardless of whether he/she actually want to be the 'leader'. That is how it becomes possible for 'the big ugly' thing to take such a dominant place in the household.

 

Beleive me, I know. I am the 'nice but bossy' one in my marriage. I never wanted to be, I was always a bit of a follower, a laid-back, take it as it comes sort of person but living with a conflict-avoidant man (AKA bl**dy lazy) forced me to take charge. Bit by bit I took over more and more responsibilities and he retreated from more and more. I was resentful, he was resentful.

 

To state the the 'nice but bossy' spouse causes the conflict-avoidance is putting the cart before the horse.

[Popsicle]

I have heard of enough cheaters who have talked about their problems in the marriage with their spouse until they are blue in the face, but to no avail. So no, cheating is not always due to conflict avoidance. Unless you call not wanting to divorce conflict avoidance...

Edited September 9, 2016 by Popsicle

[Midwestmissy]

My wh has had to do a lot of deep thinking and therapy to deal with the mess he made. Here's what he's discovering, and again, it doesn't apply to everyone. By always seeming in control, and cultivating an image that everything is always awesome and the best (thanks to his mother who lives by this), wh has managed to avoid dealing with emotions - if I say things are great and people believe me, then I win the image battle. Avoid the inner and outer (regular privileged white man stuff) conflicts at all costs. Emotions are weak.

 

As a result, he hasn't dealt with his frustrations and inner conflicts. What he did was project them all on me, gradually and subtly until the affair started when he went at me very hard. I was accused of things I wasn't doing - I disrespected his family (um, hello), ruined his friendships (he cut off all his friends) to name 2. I was hateful, preoccupied, self centred. I was a sahm trying to be 2 parents to our kids and trying to unravel my confusion and his venom.

 

As he behaved worse and worse, me and other people who cared about him called him out. He didn't want to look at himself. Then he looked around his office and found the mow who validated everything he did. And his life and health got worse - and he continued to blame me. She benefitted from him failing - if he lost his marriage, she'd have him (without doing the financial math of course). And she told him he was great. Things were unraveling, but why deal when someone was at the end of the phone 24/7 showering you with compliments? Then of course when he ended it he lied about it for another 18 months - no yucky consequences to deal with, so he thought.

 

When he finally extricated his head from his backside and realized that the people he admired and respected most lived authentically, he got into deep therapy. Running away doesn't solve your problems. Dealing with them takes the bite out of them. His changes have impacted all areas of his life since he's not trying to control the outcome. I guess it's what mindfulness and living in the moment are all about.

 

His mother is not happy about the change - because it impacts her in ways she can't control. And the mow wasn't too thrilled either. They equate pleasing oneself first with being more elevated and free thinking, and much cooler than others. It's been a fascinating journey when I wasn't puking in the shower. We don't have it figured out, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Remember that sometimes what the mm complains about is what is actually his problem, not the bw.

[Birdies]

Yes that is absolutely my experience. My AP is definitely conflict avoidant, and his ex-wife is pretty high-strung and volatile and unable to accept any criticism, which just exacerbated his conflict avoidance. (I know her, this isn't just what he's said to me. I think she's a textbook narcissist actually.) So they were a pretty dysfunctional match when problems did arise, as they do in every relationship. Unfortunately his conflict avoidance backfired, and their divorce is now a lot more contentious and painful for her than if he hadn't cheated on her.

[NTV]

Thanks NTV - have you or your W had an A?

 

Bh here....

[NTV]

No - I mean fearful.

 

There is a difference. I know men who have worked their @rses off for their family, but ended up in A ... because that was the only way they knew (that is NOT an excuse), they were - still are - too frightened to stand up to women that they have some investment in / that know how to press their buttons, if subconsciously..

As nice as the women might be, if you actually watched what was going on, the women 'wore the trousers', without being overtly mean. However, over years and years, the man was worn down by not being himself. If only he was able to say 'I don't like that Big Ugly Thing and I don't want it here', instead of 'OK" or 'alright' ...

 

If the "is the 30-45 minutes it takes to hash this out going to be worth the outcome?" cost/benefit analysis question is deemed increasingly valid, think how many Big Ugly Things sit around and build up over time...the outcome will eventually be no more room - for giving in.

How many men say "I want an easy life"?

I guess I can see it is possibly a contributing factors to someone's decision to cheat. But I don't think that by itself it would be necessarily the cause or only Factor. Someone truly conflict avoidant which I don't believe there's really that many people who are 100% or even 90% conflict avoidant could lead to alcoholism divorce blow-up argument just randomly running away to another country just as easily as it could an affair. I think it's the choice to use an affair as a coping mechanism for some. For others of course it's how they're wired or is the ego Kibbles. Ultimately conflict avoidance it's not in and of itself when used appropriately a bad thing. It's when it becomes the status quo.... I guess even then it's not necessarily a holistic cause of an affair. It would more be the lack of taking responsibility 4 being conflict avoidant.

Eh

Maybe I'm over-analyzing it.

[Gloria25]

Ever hear of the saying 'Happy wife, happy life'?

 

Women's moods have a lot of power over men. They come from their mother's womb and rely on the warmth of a woman (ie wife, gf) to feel loved, validated, "whole". A woman crying can bring a man to his knees.

 

So, what do a lot of men do? They stifle it.

 

It's not cuz they are lazy, selfish, unable to express feelings...it's cuz like NTV said, he does a "cost analysis" of whether or not it's even worth it to have the discussion. Cuz, we women are complicated, emotional, and often no matter what he says, he's gonna be wrong. Then the sex and affection stops. So, why risk losing the sex and wifey storming around the house with a frown? Just shut up, do what she says and move on...it's not like someone's gonna die.

 

Me, I'm a gal and I also hate conflict. I put up with a lot of crap cuz the energy it takes out of me to go to battle is immense. I was just telling a gf that I wonder if Wonder Woman just blows out a big ***sigh*** after a long day of battling, cuz that's how I get - even when I win the battle.

 

I don't look forward to conflict. I have to play like rap music to get me angry and pumped up before certain meetings, so I can stand my ground and kick butt.

 

Now does conflict avoidance lead to cheating? Probably...

 

Cuz, if there's conflict I'm sure the sex and/or affection got cut off and instead of asking to make up, the guy just figures it's easier to get some on the side than upset the sleeping dragon. Cuz geesh, can't even have a discussion with her without it being all his fault, so how can he talk about needing her warmth and touch?

 

I think sex and affection should not stop if there's conflict in the home? Cuz, men need sex more than women do. Cutting off sex cuz he won't agree with you on something is like taking a gun to a knife fight. You should never go to bed angery.

 

Diplomatic people should be capable of maintaining civilty while under mediation.

 

And yes, I'm no saint. I get nasty and/or quiet to people who I'm in conflict with. But I am trying really hard to not do that. So, if Mum upsets me, I still say "Good morning", even though I'm not chatty as usual, and same goes for making love to your man. You making love despite the ongoing conflict is his "Good morning" from you.

 

Now, if there's abuse, addictions, and/or affairs...then no, he ain't getting no nooky. I'm talking about other forms of conflict (ie putting a kid in sports, taking out the trash).

 

Shoot, if you're skillful, you can even use sex to get him to hear you out better on an issue under conflict. Like putting out the trash. Try kissing him and sweetly saying 'Hey handsome, can you remember to put out the trash?'...not 'Hey, you forgot to put out the trash again!!!' You get more flies with sugar, not vinagre.

 

My 26yr old dude? I'm still upset that instead of discussing the moving in thing with me like two adults, he just jumped to his conclusion of what he thought it implied and cut me off. I don't think he was conflict-avoidant, I think he needs to grow up. He had other mannerisms that makes me believe he simply lacks maturity. Then also, I think he had other things going on (pressure from the bar exam, what to do next in life, mom's expectations, etc) that didn't have to do with me and my move in proposal...which brings me to another point about someone who's avoiding discussing things...they may have barriers in their mind that require them to speak to like a counselor with or without you. For example, let's say the conflict is putting the kids in private school. He may say "no" without discussing it. You pry, you try to see why he disagrees, but you don't know that as a kid he was molested in a private religious school and fears that may happen to your kids. So, he's not gonna tell you he was molested. He just keeps on yelling "no" and avoids any more discussion.

 

Sorry for the long rant, but hope that helps.

[Daisy2013]

Is it often conflict-avoidance in (some) men (/women too) that underlies affairs?

 

E.g. - a man that can't tell his wife what he really wants / doesn't want, so goes along, maybe for years, to keep the peace until he becomes so resentful of not getting what he wants (because he never asked for it) that he then expresses that resentment (maybe partly unconsciously or just ... stupidly) in a way that he has learned to attempt some sort of control? Via women?

 

A man once said to me that all women were manipulative, but that they didn't know they were. He is highly conflict-avoidant (and can therefore be seemingly easily-swayed by others) and has also been through the cycle. This distorted viewpoint could apply to women about men, although men are socially-conditioned more so.

 

Any thoughts?

 

RF

 

My MM admitted he was conflict avoidant. He did whatever his W wanted to keep the peace. He didn't even visit family an hour away because she didn't want him to go. He hid certain purchases regarding his hobby, one time having something shipped to me. He said he only wanted peace and chose to live in the M disregarding himself.

 

But, he was also controlling, himself. I couldn't speak of my concerns or things that bothered me about our relationship. If I became quiet or "blew cold" because of hurt, he would accuse me of being snarky. If I questioned his love for me, he would become offended.

 

Yes, he hated conflict. And instead of standing up to his wife, he came to me.

[Quiet Storm]

Conflict avoidance is a very selfish trait.

 

It's not about caring for others at all, IMO. It's all about making themselves comfortable. They don't avoid conflict because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings- they avoid it because they don't want to deal with other people's feelings.

 

The other person's emotional state only matters to them because it creates a problem for the conflict avoider. Their motivation isn't to avoid making someone sad or angry, their motivation is to make their lives easier. And they'll lie to their wife, their kids, their mom, their best friend... all to make themselves more comfortable.

 

It's a way of managing people and controlling them.

 

I do believe it starts in childhood, usually in a hostile home environment. The kid learns to lie and "tell them what they want to hear" because they are afraid and want peace.

 

However, over time it becomes ingrained and automatic. As a child they did it out of fear, but as an adult, they often avoid any kind of conflict- even perceived conflict. Even over meaningless things, which makes emotionally healthy people say WTF? Why?

 

I feel that conflict avoidance is very selfish and manipulative. You can sympathize with a young child that lies to keep a drunk parent from yelling at them. But as an adult, you should consider the feelings of others, or else you are a selfish jerk. Conflict avoiders put their own feelings of comfort above everyone else.

 

It's impossible to have a real, genuine, intimate relationship with someone like this. They will alter your reality to make themselves feel better.

 

They do not value truth or intimacy.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Quiet Storm

[Daisy2013]

Conflict avoidance is a very selfish trait.

 

It's not about caring for others at all, IMO. It's all about making themselves comfortable. They don't avoid conflict because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings- they avoid it because they don't want to deal with other people's feelings.

 

The other person's emotional state only matters to them because it creates a problem for the conflict avoider. Their motivation isn't to avoid making someone sad or angry, their motivation is to make their lives easier. And they'll lie to their wife, their kids, their mom, their best friend... all to make themselves more comfortable.

 

It's a way of managing people and controlling them.

 

I do believe it starts in childhood, usually in a hostile home environment. The kid learns to lie and "tell them what they want to hear" because they are afraid and want peace.

 

However, over time it becomes ingrained and automatic. As a child they did it out of fear, but as an adult, they often avoid any kind of conflict- even perceived conflict. Even over meaningless things, which makes emotionally healthy people say WTF? Why?

 

I feel that conflict avoidance is very selfish and manipulative. You can sympathize with a young child that lies to keep a drunk parent from yelling at them. But as an adult, you should consider the feelings of others, or else you are a selfish jerk. Conflict avoiders put their own feelings of comfort above everyone else.

 

It's impossible to have a real, genuine, intimate relationship with someone like this. They will alter your reality to make themselves feel better.

 

They do not value truth or intimacy.

 

You hit the nail exactly. It is about making themselves comfortable. Mine told me that himself, that he just wanted a peaceful life and to live happily ever after.

[thecrucible]

It depends who you're dealing with.With some people they are conflict avoidant until the point where they are able to tell you what's going on after mulling it over, and they are reasonable to discuss things with you when necessary - it's just frustrating rather than upsetting.

 

With other people, they get manipulative about it. They do things to avoid conflict which they are secretly resentful about rather than say something at the time. They get annoyed but it shows up in passive aggression and you have to really be direct with them to get it out. They'll blame you for something that they could have prevented.

[Otter2569]

Yes that is absolutely my experience. My AP is definitely conflict avoidant, and his ex-wife is pretty high-strung and volatile and unable to accept any criticism, which just exacerbated his conflict avoidance. (I know her, this isn't just what he's said to me. I think she's a textbook narcissist actually.) So they were a pretty dysfunctional match when problems did arise, as they do in every relationship. Unfortunately his conflict avoidance backfired, and their divorce is now a lot more contentious and painful for her than if he hadn't cheated on her.

 

My best friend is conflict avoidant to the point of being a doormat. He has basically been emasculated over the years. He works, takes care of the kids (she does very little other than yell at them), cooks (she doesn't cook) and takes care of the lawn while she is online in her fantasy Facebook world. He has not gotten any sex in many many years also. He has not cheated, does not look at porn and does not go to strip clubs.

 

It blows me away how he can put up with this lazy, miserable woman but I feel he is also an enabler by not standing up for himself and allowing her to run rough shod over him and the kids. No way in hell I could live that life!

[Arieswoman]

Quiet Storm nails it here in this very astute post ;

 

Conflict avoidance is a very selfish trait.

 

It's not about caring for others at all, IMO. It's all about making themselves comfortable. They don't avoid conflict because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings- they avoid it because they don't want to deal with other people's feelings.

 

The other person's emotional state only matters to them because it creates a problem for the conflict avoider. Their motivation isn't to avoid making someone sad or angry, their motivation is to make their lives easier. And they'll lie to their wife, their kids, their mom, their best friend... all to make themselves more comfortable.

 

It's a way of managing people and controlling them.

 

I do believe it starts in childhood, usually in a hostile home environment. The kid learns to lie and "tell them what they want to hear" because they are afraid and want peace.

 

However, over time it becomes ingrained and automatic. As a child they did it out of fear, but as an adult, they often avoid any kind of conflict- even perceived conflict. Even over meaningless things, which makes emotionally healthy people say WTF? Why?

 

I feel that conflict avoidance is very selfish and manipulative. You can sympathize with a young child that lies to keep a drunk parent from yelling at them. But as an adult, you should consider the feelings of others, or else you are a selfish jerk. Conflict avoiders put their own feelings of comfort above everyone else.

 

It's impossible to have a real, genuine, intimate relationship with someone like this. They will alter your reality to make themselves feel better.

 

They do not value truth or intimacy.

 

I can remember when my exH and I were getting divorced I divided our dinner service in half and boxed up his half for him to take with him.

He said he didn't want it.

I asked him why and he said he'd "never liked it".

I asked him why he agreed to buy it and he said because "you wanted it".

 

Now I remember us looking at various crockery and making suggestions and agreeing on that one.

 

I wondered after that about how many other times he agreed to something he didn't really want. I began to realise that my whole marriage had been built on a series of lies. Not a good feeling.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Arieswoman, the quote you gave by Quiet storm seems a bit contradictory to me. On the one hand she says that one can understand a child telling lies to avoid getting yelled at or hurt in an abusive environment at home and she has said too, that this repeated behaviour gets ingrained in a person. She then goes on to say that the same person as an adult displaying the same trait is somehow a selfish person acting only to protect themselves from an emotional firestorm. I would think that conflict avoidance if it is actually a result of an abusive environment at home when the person was growing up, is more in the nature of a neurosis rather than something that person has a control over. It is an emotional disorder, if you like, which needs psychiatric intervention to help the person overcome it. If that be the cade I would not lay blame at the door of such a person. However, if conflict avoidance is a natural trait of the person, like for instance some one who lies without compunction or is a natural born thief, or philanderer then yes, he can be held accountable for his selfishness. That is because he may well be aware of what he is doing and knows it's wrong and can make an effort to change it.

 

On another note it is a sad fact to note that so many people are divorced or have been in so called inappropriate relationships. References to MMs' in a limited thread of this type, are to me, a bit of a shock. I know that this is symptomatic of the twentieth, twenty first century continuum but it is still a sad fact. I say this because real human emotions are involved not just some dry statistics. I don't know if others share my feelings on this or not but to me it appears tragic. At any rate I find some of these new fangled terms such as codependent and conflict avoidant and some others beyond my ken. Maybe I am past my shelf life and should pass quietly into the night!

[Just a Guy]

Hi Aniela, I had a question for you if you feel like answering it. Why did your parents divorce if, as you say, your father was head over heels in love with your mother? You say he did not cheat on her but then did she cheat on him? Fact is to me it appears your father gave no reason to your mother to divorce him and he himself could not have wanted to divorce her if he truly loved her so much. Seems a bit of a puzzle to me really. Thanks in advance for your reply.

[Quiet Storm]

Hi Arieswoman, the quote you gave by Quiet storm seems a bit contradictory to me. On the one hand she says that one can understand a child telling lies to avoid getting yelled at or hurt in an abusive environment at home and she has said too, that this repeated behaviour gets ingrained in a person. She then goes on to say that the same person as an adult displaying the same trait is somehow a selfish person acting only to protect themselves from an emotional firestorm. I would think that conflict avoidance if it is actually a result of an abusive environment at home when the person was growing up, is more in the nature of a neurosis rather than something that person has a control over. It is an emotional disorder, if you like, which needs psychiatric intervention to help the person overcome it. If that be the cade I would not lay blame at the door of such a person. However, if conflict avoidance is a natural trait of the person, like for instance some one who lies without compunction or is a natural born thief, or philanderer then yes, he can be held accountable for his selfishness. That is because he may well be aware of what he is doing and knows it's wrong and can make an effort to change it.

 

When I say ingrained or automatic, I don't mean to imply that the person has no control over it or is unaware of it. What I mean is that it's been ingrained in their minds as the easier option to take, rather than to face the conflict. I don't say this as an excuse for their behavior, but as an explanation for their behavior. They are aware that they are lying or omitting information that is relevant to the other person- they just put their own feelings of comfort ahead of others.

 

In their minds, any conflict is a determined to be a hassle. And avoiding that hassle is more important than another person's desire for truth. In an intimate relationship, most of us want to be loved, flaws and all. We share our struggles, fears and insecurities because we want to be valued for the person that we genuinely are. Conflict avoiders don't value that intimacy and have no problems being phony and dishonest with the people that they claim to love. The desire to avoid conflict is stronger than their desire to be authentic.

 

I think many children learn coping mechanisms in childhood that work for the child- at that time and place in their life. These coping methods are understandable when we are talking about a child who has no control over their lives. They cannot escape a hostile home environment and cope the best they can.

 

However, as adults, we have control over our environment. Many of us have emotional baggage, but its our responsibility to deal with it. We don't have to let our dark clouds rain all over our loved ones. If we do, it's selfish.

 

It's important to realize that understanding the evolution of how someone ended up a selfish jerk isn't absolving the selfish jerk of responsibility. We all have different paths in life. A person's history can help us understand their journey. Their past circumstances may inspire others to empathize with them, or not.

 

Take pedophiles, for example. Many pedophiles were victims of child sexual abuse. We can intellectually understand that their trauma is an explanation for their behavior, but it's not an excuse. It doesn't make their victims any less of a victim- the damage is done, regardless. Plenty of people are victimized as children and do not become abusers themselves. Their past experiences do not give them the right to harm others, even though they certainly experienced trauma and likely developed disordered thinking as a result of that trauma.

 

Another example- many kids grow up seeing their parents cope with alcohol and drugs. Let's say an addict couple has two kids. One grows up, never learns to cope with life and self medicates with drugs. It is understandable how that happened, but that empathy isn't going to mitigate the damage. Their focus on themselves and their feelings hurts their loved ones, regardless of whether it's understandable or not. The other sibling grows up, goes to counseling and learns healthy coping skills- seeking guidance and learning life skills that their parents didn't provide.

 

It's up to us to evolve into emotionally balanced people, in spite of negative influences. Sure, we may need counseling or mental health treatment to resolve our issues, but we are capable of self awareness. We can acknowledge our issues and work to resolve them.

 

If a person isn't capable of that kind of self awareness or introspection, then they won't be a good partner or a good parent. They'll suffer through life, a perpetual victim in their minds, leaving heartache in their wake.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Is it often conflict-avoidance in (some) men (/women too) that underlies affairs?

 

E.g. - a man that can't tell his wife what he really wants / doesn't want, so goes along, maybe for years, to keep the peace until he becomes so resentful of not getting what he wants (because he never asked for it) that he then expresses that resentment (maybe partly unconsciously or just ... stupidly) in a way that he has learned to attempt some sort of control? Via women?

 

A man once said to me that all women were manipulative, but that they didn't know they were. He is highly conflict-avoidant (and can therefore be seemingly easily-swayed by others) and has also been through the cycle. This distorted viewpoint could apply to women about men, although men are socially-conditioned more so.

 

Any thoughts?

 

RF

 

 

You seem to be confusing conflict avoidance with pure apathy.

 

Men simply do not care about much of the stuff you suggest is being swayed by others.

 

 

You want a round coffee table? - who cares?

 

 

You want a square coffee table? - who cares?

 

 

You want to paint the bathroom pink? - who cares?

 

 

 

This further traces back to the reality that men have zero interest in being mere friends with women who they wouldn't rather be banging.

 

You need only survey the Pinterest website for confirmation.