Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Is it often conflict-avoidance in (some) men (/women too) that underlies affairs? E.g. - a man that can't tell his wife what he really wants / doesn't want, so goes along, maybe for years, to keep the peace until he becomes so resentful of not getting what he wants (because he never asked for it) that he then expresses that resentment (maybe partly unconsciously or just ... stupidly) in a way that he has learned to attempt some sort of control? Via women? A man once said to me that all women were manipulative, but that they didn't know they were. He is highly conflict-avoidant (and can therefore be seemingly easily-swayed by others) and has also been through the cycle. This distorted viewpoint could apply to women about men, although men are socially-conditioned more so. Any thoughts? RF 1
ThatsJustHowIRoll Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I don't think it's exclusive to men 3
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 No - I did add that this could apply to women too. It is just that men are socially-conditioned to hide their feelings, plus they often don't deal with women's' emotions well and would rather 'keep the peace'. Maybe the thread title ought to change to Conflict-avoidant People?
Adoraxx Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 E.g. - a man that can't tell his wife what he really wants / doesn't want, so goes along, maybe for years, to keep the peace until he becomes so resentful of not getting what he wants (because he never asked for it) that he then expresses that resentment (maybe partly unconsciously or just ... stupidly) in a way that he has learned to attempt some sort of control? Via women? Hi Rockflower, this made me think of something that happened a few years ago. xMM had this really ugly big thing in his house and I always thought to myself: "that thing is really ugly." I think I even once mentioned it to him and he just looked at me and didn't really respond but I had the feeling that he thought it was ugly too. Anyway, some time later (maybe a year later) he painted that thing which made it look a little better and I said: "It looks better this way" and he said: "Yes it does, doesn't it? W asked me to paint it and I told her that I never liked that thing but I never dared to tell her because she brought it to my house when she moved in '." I thought that was sooo odd. I mean, it was not something small, it was something very BIG in their living room (big as in : HUGE) so it totally dominated the whole room. If you're comfortable in a relationship/ marriage, you can surely tell each other when you don't like something? OK, so that's one thing, and one other thing is that he said that they never argue, they never have fights, all was bliss. Yet he chased me (for sex) for a really long time and he was very controlling towards me whereas in their relationship I think it was the other way around (I know them both so I'm not making this up) I'm not sure if this is a reply to your question but what you said made me think of these things 1
Adoraxx Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 No - I did add that this could apply to women too. It is just that men are socially-conditioned to hide their feelings, plus they often don't deal with women's' emotions well and would rather 'keep the peace'. Maybe the thread title ought to change to Conflict-avoidant People? I think your question and thread title is fine 2
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) Adoraxx - that's exactly what I mean! Especially the "I never DARED tell her" (FFS!) RF x Edited September 9, 2016 by Rockflower 1
Adoraxx Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Adoraxx - that's exactly what I mean! RF x That's great! I know without a doubt that she is extremely controlling towards him and other people too, yet HE was the one who was extremely controlling towards me xx 1
Adoraxx Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 Especially the "I never DARED tell her" (FFS!) haha yes that's so weird isn't it? Why wouldn't you dare to tell your partner something especially if it's about something that BIG? I mean, if it would just be about some tiny little something that you don't have to see daily, you can tell yourself: "oh well, what does it matter, I don't really see it anyway" ............... 1
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 Sorry for the acronym at the end (my current anger) - I tried to edit and delete but won't let me. 1
Aniela Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 No. My dad does his best to avoid conflict, and he never cheated on my mother. He couldn't understand the men he knew, who cheated on their wives or girlfriends.
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 Ah, I didn't say ALL conflict-avoidants will have affairs ... it depends on the (power) dynamics of the couple plus the individuals. I see it as one of the main reasons WHY they do... Adoraxx commented on her experience of the 'big ugly thing'. In a more balanced relationship, the lady with the 'big ugly thing' could have asked if it was OK to bring that 'B U T' to live in the new house (i.e., if there was some self-awareness / awareness that it was a big and ugly thing) - when I moved in with my ex, I did ask about my stuff as it was his house at the time, because I was looking for compromise and fairness. If the balance is less lop-sided, there may be less inclination to have an A. If the balance is lop-sided, over time the uncomfortable can become the norm then become exaggerated. Just some thoughts. 1
imsosad Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 No, I don't see it as avoiding conflict. Some of these men hold high power jobs,are in competetive sports etc. Too often these guys are the OW's boss. You don't get to these positions by avoiding conflict. I see it more as a lack of boundries, an ability to turn their conscience off, a sense of entitelment and a selfish tendency to put their needs first. Very often the say their wives are controlling,but my guess is,that more often than not, they are quite controlling themselves. I think they just go after what they want and that's it. Boundries and self restraint are signs of maturity,which,by and large, they lack. I think it's better to call them selfish bastards than conflict avoidant,which is a fancy name for a total ****. 1
imperfectangel Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 No. My dad does his best to avoid conflict, and he never cheated on my mother. He couldn't understand the men he knew, who cheated on their wives or girlfriends. tbf you will never know if this is 100% true or not. yes, my mm is extremerly conflict avoidant. whenever we would disagree on anything he would disappear. 2
Aniela Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 tbf you will never know if this is 100% true or not. yes, my mm is extremerly conflict avoidant. whenever we would disagree on anything he would disappear. I do know. He was cheated on in his second marriage (Mum and dad divorced and remarried), and it broke his heart. 1
salparadise Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 No. My dad does his best to avoid conflict, and he never cheated on my mother. He couldn't understand the men he knew, who cheated on their wives or girlfriends. I agree. Conflict avoidance does not make anyone a scoundrel. Cheating does. 3
imperfectangel Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I do know. He was cheated on in his second marriage (Mum and dad divorced and remarried), and it broke his heart. it could be true obv i dont know him. but just look at all these ow/om on here. all our mm/mw have bs's that dont even know theyre bs' i didnt mean it in such a personal way. reading it back i probably shouldbe worded it better 1
elaine567 Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I think conflict avoidant is part of the mix, but there has to be a primary drive to want to to go outwith the marriage in the first place and that is why I believe MM, are men who do not believe in monogamy. They play the marriage game, yes, for a while, but they never get the "wild oats" out of their system because they are not monogamous by nature. Give them a little push or an opportunity and they grab that OW with both hands. The difference between Aniela's conflict avoidant father and the conflict avoidant MM is that her father believed in being true to one woman. 1
Cymbeline Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 "No, I don't see it as avoiding conflict. Some of these men hold high power jobs,are in competetive sports etc. Too often these guys are the OW's boss. You don't get to these positions by avoiding conflict." While I agree with you that power and success breeds entitlement and offers opportunity, I think it is a very different thing to be assertive and successful at work and to be the same person in a marriage. Intimate relationships are far more difficult than work relationships because they require real intimacy and all the vulnerability that goes with that. Titles, status and roles at work are much more defined. In addition, many of the personal characteristics for which a professional is rewarded in a corporate career, are actually detrimental to anlong term intimate personal relationship. It is also much harder to change one's behaviour in an intimate relationship than at the more superficial level required at work. In any case, people are given far more training in professional development than in marriage! This apparent vulnerability in a respected boss is one of the things that hooks an OP at work, imo. 4
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 No, I don't see it as avoiding conflict. Some of these men hold high power jobs,are in competetive sports etc. Too often these guys are the OW's boss. You don't get to these positions by avoiding conflict. I see it more as a lack of boundries, an ability to turn their conscience off, a sense of entitelment and a selfish tendency to put their needs first. Very often the say their wives are controlling,but my guess is,that more often than not, they are quite controlling themselves. I think they just go after what they want and that's it. Boundries and self restraint are signs of maturity,which,by and large, they lack. I think it's better to call them selfish bastards than conflict avoidant,which is a fancy name for a total ****. ISS - yes, fair point and repeat that I agree C-A doesn't cover all situations... but having worked with / competed with these types of men, you often find that back home they have little control, as much as they may try to deny / hide that. I have seen men at work in powerful jobs having A, but it is known how 'small' they are in their own home, plus the little comments they make sometimes give away these clues...the 'provide' bit is part of being a man, so they may excel or dominate in the work environment, sport being similar as both are sort of (manly) outlets. 1
Aniela Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I meant to add (can't edit), that he isn't narcissistic or entitled. He was head over heels in love with my mother. If he'd ever cheated on her, it would have been written all over him, and I would have heard about it from mum. He isn't deceptive. Anyway, enough of that. 1
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 I agree. Conflict avoidance does not make anyone a scoundrel. Cheating does. I didn't say it does. However, conflict avoidance doesn't avoid conflict ... it creates further conflict. Authenticity may create some conflict in the short term but avoids it long-term and is about honesty and truth. 2
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 I meant to add (can't edit), that he isn't narcissistic or entitled. He was head over heels in love with my mother. If he'd ever cheated on her, it would have been written all over him, and I would have heard about it from mum. He isn't deceptive. Anyway, enough of that. Maybe your parents have a good relationship then?
elaine567 Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 This apparent vulnerability in a respected boss is one of the things that hooks an OP at work, imo. Yes I agree, the thought that he is such a hard nut, a leader, a man to be looked up to, yet he is in her arms crying like a baby about his horrible marriage is somehow appealing to many women... He needs saved and she is the woman to do it. 1
Author Rockflower Posted September 9, 2016 Author Posted September 9, 2016 " This apparent vulnerability in a respected boss is one of the things that hooks an OP at work, imo. Yes - they may be limited in their understanding /application of emotions and sympathy is the route they have found (through marriage) that gets them what they want bypassing the upset and conflict, which has limited effect at home. Except on DDay at home ... 1
imsosad Posted September 9, 2016 Posted September 9, 2016 I get what you areall saying, but ultimately, I feel that too often conflict avoidant=can't be bothered. These guys are good at getting what they want and they enough communication skills to hook the OW. As women, I sometimes think we tend to overanalyze men and attribute their behavior to a variety of reasons,when, at the end of the day the either dont care enough or are focused on their own needs. Men are 'small' at home because it suits them to let someone else be the grown up. Conflict avoidance seems like cutting them too much slack (I am generalizing, not all MM are the same,obviously. Im talking about the average MM on a typical LS thread)
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