The validation hook

[Clockwatching]

Hey all,

 

I've been out of contact with my mm for over a year and have had time to reflect on my past and my affair, and I discovered some things about myself that might help some people understand why they're in it - it was a big eye opener for me and has led me to do significant work on myself as a result, so hopefully for someone out there this may be a bit of an a-ha moment too.

 

A bit about my past will hopefully help you to understand where I'm coming from. My childhood was a black hole for me - I was raised with a narcissistic sister, an emotionally unavailable mother, and a father who was aggressive and manipulative, so not too happy a camp. Growing up I found myself playing the part of the appeaser, caretaker, the empath, and the invisible child and the co-dependent. I didn't bond with my family as a result, and all my emotional efforts were concentrated on making my surroundings safer and trying not to be a target for my sister's narcissism, my father's agression, and my mother's indifference. I was a non-person.

 

I have issues with co-depedency as a result of this - my learning during childhood was that as an individual being I was unimportant, unheard, insignificant and collateral damage to everyone else's needs and feelings. It wasn't safe to reveal emotions or to give opinions or be vulnerable in any way. As an adult, I realise how this has restricted my knowledge and appreciation of myself as an individual self - I have less concept of who I am and what my feelings are without reflecting on the outside needs of other people and my environment. My relationship with myself wasn't something that I was taught and was something I actively had to hide away.

 

It always confused me when people said 'the answer you seek is inside', because inside of me was a big black chasm - where do you go with that? Where do you start to heal when there's nothing of you?

 

Since then I've had a couple of good jobs, but the last 6 few years I've had jobs which have left me demeaned and subservient, and yet I stuck with it, knowing I shouldn't but not feeling strong enough to leave. I have left now though and things are better on that score.

 

So, ultimately - I have a bad habit of defining myself through others, seeking validation, leading my life and shaping myself by their rules and what they feel is acceptable. I have in the past hidden things from others because of the fear of not being accepted, silly things like smoking - but those silly things that you lie about, it means you're not authentic.

 

So, my affair - I was actually in a pretty good place when I met him, and because he was staying locally to me and away from his family home, while he was here we had a good relationship and if I'm honest, we were really good for each other (my tendencies weren't activated at that point, and he actually helped me have a good sense of self in a variety of ways) and we both admitted after he left that we were falling for each other.

 

When he left we tried to keep it up and see each other once a month - THAT was when the co-dependency beast really kicked in - I was so anxious, my confidence was rock bottom, and honestly I didn't know which way was up. We tried to be friends but I still couldn't handle that.

 

I feel so ridiculous now, but I swear I need a job in the FBI I became so good at stalking on the web - for a woman my age? Seriously! When you've fallen for someone, or still want someone in your life but can't and you have these tendencies, you will always seek that validation from them – because NOT getting that validation reinforces the idea that you are worthless, your feelings aren't important, you are not seen, you are not heard, you are not valuable, you are again, that non-person.

 

Affairs will definitely accentuate these tendencies - they're choosing their family over you, their partner, their children, their existing life - none of which you can ever be a part of. All the friends you will never meet, all the events that you won't be able to share with them, you can never spontaneously call them or go to their house - everything that involves their acceptance and pride of having someone like you in your life is absent. You won't be invited into their life, or if you are, it will be covert and secretive. It challenges every aspect in a human being that would make you question your own value, on each and every level. If that doesn't make most people self reflect I don't know what will - I would imagine that there would be some who have a good sense of self and worth who say 'screw you – I deserve better', and the other half who will spend every waking moment looking for that validation that they are good enough.

 

 

So those folk who ignore it when their MM or MW tells them the truth and that they can't offer them any more and keep on asking 'why? Why? Why?'? They're not being stupid, they just want to know that they're valued and are capable of being loved.

 

So, if anyone can relate to anything in their past or things that have brought this out in them in their present, it's something to look at.

 

If you're seeking validation from him that he feels the same, not communicating your needs, asking what he wants before telling him what you want, if you have lost aspects of your life that were important to you because you're making time for him, if all of your focus is on him - you may have fallen into the chasm of the co-dependent. I call it a chasm because there's no light there, never was.

 

When you don't know who you are any more, you don't honour and own your own feelings without needing validation from your partner or from others, if you've lost your passions in life without it just being about your partner - it may not just be the affair fog, I know it wasn't for me.

 

But do know, regardless of how you feel right now, that you are important, and you can be seen and you can be valued - but you need to see and value yourself first. The first step does start with you - if you're anywhere near where I was/am it might take small steps, if you catch yourself angling for validation, stop and reassess what you're doing and why, this helps you to reconnect with your feelings and reclaim yourself and your life instead of defining yourself through others. You must reconnect back to the self to find the light.

 

I am starting again, but I feel more hopeful than I have done in years because I can now see the years of childhood programming that has gotten me to this point - and maybe this was just the catalyst that I needed to wake up and I feel in many ways, like I'm getting to know myself for the very first time.

 

 

Everyone's on a different journey for different reasons, but whatever journey you are on I wish you all love and light and hope that we all, one day see ourselves as we truly are. xxx

[anika99]

Beautifully said. I have not been the OW but I have been involved in toxic relationships with emotionally unavailable men and I relate so much to what you have posted here. Took me a long time to understand that no man could give me the self love and self worth I was seeking.

[ladydesigner]

Wow amazing post!!! I found a lot of what you said to be an aha moment for me but this time as a BS. I needto put my childhood demons to rest! Thank you for posting this!

[Chica80]

Such a great post!!!

It is so true, for me at least I would think if he picks me if he loves me than I am worthy. But if he doesn't it just reafirms all the ugly things I think about myself.

[Adoraxx]

great post!! thank you <3

[Ronnie33]

This is so true. We connect our self worth to these men. We should be all the validation we need.

 

Once we come out the other side, let's hope none of us go back.

[Anne5113]

This is true, all the devastation in the experiences posted here & it really does boil down to VALIDATION! in many situations, is true for the MM as well. The can sense those needs in women, if they aren't planning on reconciliation.

[Clockwatching]

Hey guys,

 

Ok, so a) I can't believe you all made it through my novel and b) thank you for acknowledging that it resonated with you on some level - I feel like it's the first step to healing, to be honest about what we feel, need and desire, that affirmation of the self.

 

For me it's a journey I'm starting to really look at my childhood programming, how I'm still playing out those beliefs about my value, worthiness, the ways to get love and validation. Someone said that we 'should' be enough and I do think the point is that we actually ARE enough, but for some of us we were never taught this and in fact were taught the opposite, and spend much of our lives trying to convince others to show us that we are enough - to mend that wound we experienced in our early lives.

 

My grand plan is to re-define that myself, and over-ride that programming by getting to know who I am and learn to think and feel in the world through my sense of self, and not through others as this has spilled over into other areas of my life outside of the affair. I have a feeling this is going to be quite a journey!

 

I know for my mm, we actually talked about why it happened and I still think that we gave each other something that we needed at that time, but that we couldn't define. A lot of it was actually really positive, until he left of course and I went off the rails, but to be clear I'm not saying that had he stayed the situation would have been worthy of me - it wouldn't have been. I want love unrestricted, free and shameless and an affair wouldn't tick those boxes.

 

I do think that people attract each other for many reasons, so individual to who they are, and it doesn't make anyone an intrinsically bad person - just someone who isn't coping and makes a choice that is not the best for them as an authentic person and in terms of their well being. Sometimes you need to be in the dark to see the light I guess.

 

Anyway, before I ramble on again (lol!) I guess I just wanted to say that for anyone who feels helpless, hopeless, powerless, like a puppet on a string, that there is a big big light out there but it comes from inside of you - you are every wonderful thing that you ever needed it, you just didn't know it.

 

Big love brave people xxx

[What_Did_I_Do]

Brilliant post!!

 

I fit this to a "T" and quite likely MM does as well. Need constant approval from those least likely to hand it over. It's a no-win situation.

 

Half the battle is recognizing why we behave this way...but the other is how do we begin the journey to love ourselves? How did you start that Clock?

[Katyp]

I didn't connect my self worth to my XMM. It was because I had a lot of self worth that I finished with him after several years as I started to feel that I wanted to see more of him so by getting rid of him, I protected myself as I knew he would never want our relationship to be anything more. We had never spoken about our affair other than he told me once he could not choose between me or his wife and I was making his marriage better. I don't know why I got into the A in the first place (and I don't care to find out as it will never ever happen again) other than he told me he was falling in love with me after knowing him for about a year. I found him extremely attractive from day one and I was single (and very lonely) at the time and he did all the chasing. We lasted 7 years. Its his loss at the end of the day. Like someone on here always says and it registered with me as soon as I read it - he ain't no prize.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Katyp

[Rockflower]

Spot on - you've got it exactly.

 

Thank you Clockwatching xx

[Clockwatching]

Evening lovely people,

 

It's great to have this kind of discussion with you guys, I think other people with these tendencies and with the experiences that we've been through, whether with affairs and with other aspects of our lives it may just be a constant question that we can all identify 'what am I missing?' and the constant ache of not feeling good enough - that we are incomplete in some way.

 

I know for me I've felt most of my life I haven't had something that other people do seem to have - this seems to be a sense of self which allows them to hold their own in the world and in relationships, co-dependents lack this vital bit of learning - and it's stuff that's so important - it's not just believing that your feelings are important, it's actually learning to identify what your feelings and thoughts are, and once you're able to do that expressing and following through on them, because you have a right to it as a whole human being - because you are important, and you don't need other people to validate you.

 

So, KatyP - I don't think you fall into this category, but I did wonder as you'd been involved for several years due to loneliness but keeping your distance from him whether it was that you're afraid of intimacy in some way and that this suited your emotional purposes? Or are you one of those exceptions that only wanted a sexual relationship with him and were able to just not get emotionally involved? No judgement whatsoever either way - I've avoided relationships for a few years because I know I can't hold my own in a relationship, I lose my sense of self for the reasons above and that's something I need to work on.

 

What did I do - welcome to the club! Once I started learning this stuff it really was an aha moment, suddenly I realised what I've been doing wrong, and I'm only in the very beginning stages of learning how to fix it. If you're interested there's a really good lady on youtube called Lisa Romano, she's a life coach who is very insightful and specialises in co-dependency, it might be worth taking a look.

 

The information I have so far is that for those of us who never developed a sense of self basically need to start from ground zero, to start learning to identify your feelings, allow yourself to feel them without reaching outward for validation, allowing your emotions from a 'mindful' and observing standpoint and let them filter through without resistance.

 

Learning that the mind is not the brain - the brain is basically a computer which has downloaded information from when we were young, it operates on auto, however the mind can choose whether or not to act on the automatic responses from the brain, and there we have power to change. Understanding that your responses, your perceptions and your need for validation isn't your fault, and in fact were a great coping mechanism at one point, but that actually work to your disadvantage now and can be triggered by other's behaviour - ie, if you meet a narcissist and they are treated as 'all' and your self is treated as insignificant/unimportant. And, at the end of the day, if you're unaware that you're doing this then that is a very big deal for where your life is headed!

 

A combination of techniques can be used in every day life, through practicing active meditation, journalling, really thinking through 'what do I like' 'what do I not like' - learning about yourself. I'm not onto the bit about re-programming the brain yet but I'm looking forward to that, I think the learning about yourself stuff and learning to validate yourself will help enormously. There will be some painful things to go through, ie, what happened to you, who was involved and how it all made you feel and seeing the patterns in your life and the reality of your behaviour too (co-dependents are also essentially manipulating things too) - the acknowledgement of trauma for those who have disassociated from the core of who they are, well, it's huge really. I guess only then we can move on.

 

And I'm rambling again, still, if it helps someone its worth it - even if just to know that we're all real people with real issues, no one goes through life without stuff to sort out so we are never ever alone. xxx

[hazy_shade_of_grey]

Spot on - you've got it exactly.

 

Thank you Clockwatching xx

 

Like everyone else said nice post. It was hard to read as I didn't want to believe/accept this was me. If I'm being honest it was and I can't believe

how much of myself I lost in the process. Thank You.

[Rockflower]

Clockwatching - carry on posting, this is a great thread!

 

I was aware of much of this in myself, have worked hard continuously on myself for years - but I still got caught out.

 

Funnily enough, I was at my most vulnerable when I made a major action to move forward from the co-dependant-traits that had kept me alive growing up, but which were just destroying me as an adult. That was when the A started. I thought I had re-discovered and was starting to restore my long-lost self (I remember why/where I actually lost myself as a child)... then found out just how vulnerable I still was.

 

I will check out the Youtube channel.

 

Maybe we can use this thread to share ideas / support to help move forward together?

 

Thanks again

RF xx

[Clockwatching]

It's amazing to me how many of you have come forward to identify with this - I think it's so brave and so real and so important.

 

I would love to keep this thread open as I've been reading some of the threads over the last few days and see so many souls asking why they are not loved, why they are not worthy, and how many wounds it opens. How much it harks back to our previous experiences of not being validated, of being dismissed and of being invisible and abused in various ways maybe as children or as young adults, or both.

 

It's our pasts that's needs to heal, having an affair is really just a by product for many people, after all, if we were whole in our selves and knew ourselves to be worthy we would know it was not worthy of us. Needless to say many people are different and not everyone is motivated by the same things but it is a widespread phenomena. Mind you, nobody has to pass an exam of enlightenment to be a parent so it's not exactly surprising that these are paths that many need to follow.

 

RF - it's odd, but it was the same for me - I felt I had a really good grasp of myself and my issues when the affair started, but I do now realise that I hadn't dealt with core issues and really gone back to it to clear the way, in a strange way it's opened doors for me to begin to really look at it, and it's scary.

 

Like you I had been aware and had worked so hard over the years on myself, but in the core of me, always felt that I lacked something - something vital that God just didn't install me with when I was born. Now I feel like a veil has been lifted and I'm actually seeing my past, major life events, and my motivations in a totally different light - it's quite frightening to see things as they are when you realise how deep the co-dependency runs and why. What do you think, looking back now, got you into your affair and where do you think it came from?

 

I've just done an exercise tonight from a book I have (by the infamous Lisa of course) which really opened my eyes to the relationships I have with my family, and it's been really painful to do and acknowledge.

 

In a way, because I knew that I couldn't hold my own and be a real person in a relationship without losing myself, an affair was a middle ground for me - he gave me the space I needed, no emotional pressure yet a great connection, and weirdly, I could be more myself and open as a result than in pretty much all of my relationships. And because he was living here I didn't feel too hard done by as I saw him or spoke to him 5 out of 7 days of the week. Of course when he left it all went Pete Tong wrong but up until then, falling in love in that way was near perfect to a co-dependent terrified non person such as myself. In an odd way, it allowed me to be real.

 

But now, I want to be free of this - now that I see my life as it really has been, the decisions I've made, the things I've done and more importantly, things I haven't done going forward, I want to clear the decks. It's only really as you see things as they are that you can start to do anything about them, and there's both relief and fear in that.

 

I know you said to keep on posting, but as you can see I tend to ramble.. you may regret this..!

 

If anyone wants to post their experiences, insights, or thoughts to this please please feel free - I see so much pain in these boards, and so much desperation to be worthwhile and loved. If we can help each other to discover that in ourselves, something we seem to have forgotten about as somebody elses love is so much more important, then I'm all in. xxx

Edited September 3, 2016 by Clockwatching

[Patrice]

On the same journey. Married for 27 years, to a man with his own issues. I stayed for the kids. I have been divorced for 7 years, at the time he promised he would remain in the marriage for 4. Every time, I try to escape this - he tries again. I finally said you are miserable and that's your own work to do. I have done mine. Interesting though, every time I move forward he tries to contact me. My parents - good people - mother was a child of an alcoholic, father is quite controlling. So, she appeased and enabled him - it's what I knew. So married young, to the same type of man - who in the end couldn't keep it together. MM entered about 6 months before I left my husband - EA, no PA .... he lives 700 miles from me. He has called the past 7 years on and off, and is angry and abusive. Not going do that anymore ... no going back to that. In the end of it all, you find yourself again - NC is clarifying to redirect your energy to your own self awareness, the patterns of behavior that I own. That's my work to do, now. I can't fix his life, I can take care of my own. I don't stalk or watch him, it's a waste of my energy moving forward. No DD, NC and and get real with yourself. That's where you have the power, and the insight. The longer you remain NC, the more you learn and heal yourself. XO

[Clockwatching]

Hi Patrice,

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story - it's amazing how history repeats itself or how we continue learned roles without even noticing isn't it? I must confess, your writing sounds like you're tired. I think it's incredible that you've realised that it all boils down to you, to your self, and that you need to nurture that - it definitely takes insight and self reflection to realise where your power's at and I although I wish I'd gotten here sooner, I'm glad I have now, so all kudos to you.

 

I have a strong belief that our energy attracts people, and if there are things that we haven't dealt with and behaviour that we propogate (often unconsciously) through signals, cues, expressions, then those in need of our kind of energy are attracted to that.

 

I do believe also that people who are co-dependent (children of unrecovered alcoholics and/or drug users are classic examples) have great traits that can be blessings as well as curses - we are deeply empathic, kind, nurturing and can be very wise but like everything great gifts can be turned to a darker side if the application is miguided. These are all much needed in the world but need to be directed to ourselves to come to terms with our pasts before moving on to do good in the world.

 

We tend to have problems with boundaries, because ours have been violated so many times, we use our skills to be seen and gain validation but often from the wrong sources, we tell stupid lies by omission or not to gain acceptance or to appease our audience, there are so many levels that this goes to and so many aspects of ourselves that it impacts.

 

You sound like a strong lady and that you've come far and battled some demons - how is life for you now? Have you been in NC for long?

 

Thank you again for sharing xxx

[Rockflower]

CW - please do continue your rambling posts (they're not rambling!) :-)

 

Thanks for the Youtube advice - there is some fantastic stuff from the neurological angle / trigger coping, which is just what I've been looking for.

 

"What do you think, looking back now, got you into your affair and where do you think it came from?"

 

I was seriously feeling confident and able to cope, after a really badly abusive relationship, and going through the shock of the veil being lifted about my FOO / history, etc. I felt free and was looking forward, if lonely.

 

I now realise that each and every time I was taking a step forward in moving my life forward, I attracted a man who seemed to be attracted by my apparent confidence and energy yet reflected some level of the dysfunction or troubling thoughts I hadn't yet dealt with, or I seemed to attract someone who would make my current fears materialise. They say what you think about manifests...

 

Anyway (I'm a bit of a rambler too!), of course, after recovering from the previous experience, I was flattered by the attention. It is all a bit complex and things that happened that are bit more unusual / intense than some, but essentially he is very similar to me (except I like to think that I have the balls and he apparently doesn't).

 

What I mean is, I've been through the thing about being attracted to / in relationships with men like my parents or combination of both. Now those types are a complete turn-off.

My IC agrees with me (we work on authenticity and validation, not appeasement) that xMM was / is very, very much like myself. And he was showing signs of going through the things I did years before, when I started to realise the truth. So, he sort of reflected me. Me - I wanted to help him through it. Oh, and he wanted to get found out, he even said he would from the beginning.

 

So, I thought I'd found someone like me - except I'd swum and got on that rescue boat off the Madmax island years before ... and realise that I have to wave goodbye as my boat sails into the distance watching him disappear whilst he finds his own way.

 

So I am still at sea, trying to keep looking ahead - not back at the disappearing xMM - working out how to work the rudder and navigate sea monsters whilst looking out for a dolphin or merman!

 

Very hard, but another life lesson.

 

RF xx

[Clockwatching]

Evening all

 

That's great that the channel is useful - when I first came across them I was in shock, literally everything that's on there explains what's happened to me throughout my life - after my affair and generally the frustrations and non-understanding that I've had in my life, it's like a light's been turned on. Pretty amazing really.

 

God RF that is weird, that's exactly what I was feeling when my affair began - I felt in control, happy, life was good and I was confident, and like you say, maybe that just attracted him because of the energy that I had. I agree that feeling better, but not dealing with core issues that allows you to truly connect to self is a crucial part of what decisions that you make and the perspective that you have, but I know for me this has in a strange way helped me to shed light on my past.

 

What is a FOO?! I'm glad you found a good therapist - I went to see one for a while, but well, it was more useful talking to my cat to be honest. Lets just say, we didn't connect..!

 

How odd that you should say that he was a reflection of you, but a few years ago - I was reading something the other day that was saying that people understand you only from the lens of their own perspective, and so for co-dependents, that's really hard as you end up jumping from pillar to post adjusting to each person's lens to be validated and accepted. Pretty exhausting work when you think of it that way and no wonder that most of us have a small circle of friends and a need for significant down time!

 

My xMM wasn't reflective of my parents, and if he was single to be honest I totally would have dated him, and we were really good friends, but when he left and the dynamic changed, and he wanted to have me in his life in any capacity, I felt so devalued and worthless - because I was always to be a secret and in his cupboard of things he would be ashamed to admit to. I was still emotionally involved, and all of my co-dependency was just parading around in the theatre of my brain while I tried to shoot them from the gallery. I was just broken hearted and it was getting more and more painful trying to be ok with being a secret friend. I realised that the situation made me feel desperate, lonely, pining and abandoned - like I just wasn't good enough, again, and I withdrew more into myself until I was anxiety ridden and a chasm of feeling completely lost. It just wasn't good for me, and even though I tried not to my entire being was begging for validation, begging for love and acceptance knowing none of that would ever be available. I felt six years old all over again in terms of how I was coping.

 

I think it takes time, distance and perspective to really be able to see what happened - for those fresh out, or trying to be fresh out, time is really what it takes. It's not easy, but it's necessary to obtain some peace. And your peace - you alone for your own person and your own sense of completeness, cannot be acheived when your mind, heart and soul is dependent on someone who cannot or will not love you back, or if they can, just a little, it's never enough because although you might get the validation that you can be made love to, it's your soul that wants to be satisfied that it's being treated like the gold it is once you've fallen, and stolen moments will never give you that.

 

It's you who are stealing yourself of your value - not him, because you're looking in the wrong place. You really have everything that you need, you've just been believing the lie that you just might not be enough. You are. xxx

Edited September 4, 2016 by Clockwatching

[What_Did_I_Do]

Completely agree and could copy and paste Clock's and Rockflower's posts into my own.

 

MM was attracted to me for my confidence, laughter, physical appearance, strength and ability to handle difficult situations without faltering. I wasn't attracted to him at first (he was married, but er, so was I) but he persevered. Whatever it was that broke inside of me to let my guard down and let him in, I wish I knew. He was (is) the stereotypical alpha male. Commanded respect. Looking back to the beginning of this A, I see that I was instantly transported back to childhood. The NEED to have this strong, authoritative man love and accept me overtook every sense of my logic and self worth. I was bargaining for my parent's acceptance again. Only they have long passed away so all efforts in this regard are futile. So I project that need onto MM and it is not healthy for either of us - especially me. And in this process, I've transformed into a lost, needy, hollow shell of a woman.

 

Good stuff Clock!

[Rockflower]

CW - FOO is Family Of Origin...I've done so much therapy I'm using the short names! And just like kissing frogs (!) I've done a LOT of that with ICs ... my current, long-term lovely one sort of came to me and is THE bestest. Like I said, it's all about validation and authenticity.

 

And as for the xMM - I believe he is Co-dep too (for numerous reasons). That's what made it so familiar and so hard to let go - a familiarity with myself, like I was being reflected right back.

 

WDID - yes, "MM was attracted to me for my confidence, laughter, physical appearance, strength and ability to handle difficult situations without faltering" ... absolutely!!

 

RF xx