Just Friends? Huh?

[Lovelorn00]

You discuss your feelings about it with him and if he runs away.... SO BE IT! And good riddance.

 

And for the record, I have never even had to discuss this in any of my long term relationships. In time, it was just a given we were bf/gf.

 

I have never had a guy run away when I have called myself his girlfriend.

 

And if he did, then again, good riddance.

 

So, something like, "Hey, how do you feel about me being your girlfriend?" And if he freaks out, end it right then and there? Even if things were fine before that convo?

[katiegrl]

So, something like, "Hey, how do you feel about me being your girlfriend?" And if he freaks out, end it right then and there? Even if things were fine before that convo?

 

Phrase it however you want, and YES if he freaks out about it, you pull back. Or next him.

 

Or do like I do, say nothing, work off the strong connection you've developed with each other, and your own intuition, and allow things to progress naturally and organically.

 

If things seem off, you either discuss with him or end it.

[Lovelorn00]

My guess is, with all the time you were spending together, him introducing you to friends and family, this guy already considered you his girlfriend, BEFORE you made your off-handed remark about "you can do whatever you want, I am not your girlfriend."

 

You just sent him a VERY strong message there. And not a very good one either.

 

Understood and agreed. I think I will mark this one as unsalvageable. I guess the silver lining in this particular situation is 1) I know for a fact that it was ME who ruined it and 2) I know exactly what I did to ruin it.

[Lovelorn00]

Oh good grief!!

Take responsibility for things you said and stop sulking over the consequences!

It's ridiculous!

Do him a favour and quit this.

 

I really don't feel that this comment is useful and actually quite mean. I can sulk over whatever I want.

[katiegrl]

Understood and agreed. I think I will mark this one as unsalvageable. I guess the silver lining in this particular situation is 1) I know for a fact that it was ME who ruined it and 2) I know exactly what I did to ruin it.

 

Well maybe you can come back from it....hopefully.

 

In any event, at least you learned something.

 

Always be honest, genuine and real LL.

 

Trust in the connection you have developed with each other, pay attention to his actions and act and respond accordingly.

 

Do not be saying things like what you said to gauge his reaction or elicit a response.

 

Again, game playing and silly. Huge turn off.

[Lovelorn00]

Additionally, I'm completely owning up to what I've done wrong here. Isn't that what this place is for? To help each other figure all of this out? I'm able to better assess the situation based on the useful comments here. Isn't that the purpose?

[katiegrl]

Additionally, I'm completely owning up to what I've done wrong here. Isn't that what this place is for? To help each other figure all of this out? I'm able to better assess the situation based on the useful comments here. Isn't that the purpose?

 

Yes of course!

 

But we have a right to respond how we want to.

 

No one sets out to be "mean" although I know sometimes I can come across quite blunt.

 

But it's always our intention to help, that's why WE are here!

[Lovelorn00]

Well maybe you can come back from it....hopefully.

 

In any event, at least you learned something.

 

Always be honest, genuine and real LL.

 

Trust in the connection you have developed with each other, pay attention to his actions and act and respond accordingly.

 

Do not be saying things like what you said to gauge his reaction or elicit a response.

 

Again, game playing and silly. Huge turn off.

 

I did! And thanks! This isn't something I would've even considered had TXGuy not made the comment about discussing it beforehand. Again, the key word here is learning.

 

Either way, the girlfriend comment was made weeks ago, and we've still been seeing each other. Spent all of the entire weekend together last weekend, including Thursday, so maybe all is not lost. Still probably wise for me to pull back, though. This anxiety is making me say some pretty messed up things.

[CarrieT]

I ALWAYS assume that the guys I'm seeing are seeing other people until we talk about exclusivity. It's not something I should say out loud, but I can be blunt like that sometimes.

So now you have learned something in this process. An old adage, but a true one, "assuming makes an ASS out of *you* and *me*."

 

A lot people do not multi-date so by making such an assumption, you effectively shot yourself in the foot. Be less passive-aggressive and develop some better communication skills and you may avert this type of problem next time.

[katiegrl]

I did! And thanks! This isn't something I would've even considered had TXGuy not made the comment about discussing it beforehand. Again, the key word here is learning.

 

Either way, the girlfriend comment was made weeks ago, and we've still been seeing each other. Spent all of the entire weekend together last weekend, including Thursday, so maybe all is not lost. Still probably wise for me to pull back, though. This anxiety is making me say some pretty messed up things.

 

Instead of pulling back (which in this case is just more game playing), why not the next time you see each other, open up a dialogue about the status of your RL?

 

You can tell him you've noticed he has seemed a little distant lately, and if everything is okay.

 

Gauge his response and then discuss.

 

Tell him you were confused by his response to his friend. Ask him if it had anything to do with the off handed comment YOU had made.

 

Point is COMMUNICATE!!!! Be OPEN, honest and stop hiding and pretending.

[elisalynn]

Well, instead of making passive aggressive comments about labels and then being bummed that he didn't label you, just talk to him about it. He was put on the spot with the friend and didn't know what to say. He Should have said that you guys were dating or something like that, sure, but now it sounds like he was just following your lead.

 

You don't have to phrase it, "do you want me to be your girlfriend?" but you could say something like, "I want to check in about what we are doing here; it's been about two months and I want to know if we are exclusive or not and what that means for us."

[Lovelorn00]

So now you have learned something in this process. An old adage, but a true one, "assuming makes an ASS out of *you* and *me*."

 

A lot people do not multi-date so by making such an assumption, you effectively shot yourself in the foot. Be less passive-aggressive and develop some better communication skills and you may avert this type of problem next time.

 

I think, for me, making that assumption was a bit of a defense mechanism. I can't be hurt if I just go ahead and assume he's seeing other people. Sounds dumb, but yeah, you're right - never assume anything.

[Lovelorn00]

Instead of pulling back (which in this case is just more game playing), why not the next time you see each other, open up a dialogue about the status of your RL?

 

You can tell him you've noticed he has seemed a little distant lately, and if everything is okay.

 

Gauge his response and then discuss.

 

Tell him you were confused by his response to his friend. Ask him if it had anything to do with the off handed comment YOU had made.

 

Point is COMMUNICATE!!!! Be OPEN, honest and stop hiding and pretending.

 

Well, the purpose of the pull back is just straight-up fear at this point, not necessarily game-playing. I've already screwed this up. I'm afraid of what else will come out of my mouth now.

 

I hear ya loud and clear, though. Communication is key, and if I'm going to date like an adult woman, I need to be willing to have these conversations and deal with the consequences. If he runs, he runs. It is what it is.

[katiegrl]

Well, the purpose of the pull back is just straight-up fear at this point, not necessarily game-playing. I've already screwed this up. I'm afraid of what else will come out of my mouth now.

 

I hear ya loud and clear, though. Communication is key, and if I'm going to date like an adult woman, I need to be willing to have these conversations and deal with the consequences. If he runs, he runs. It is what it is.

 

HE may interpret it as game playing... that was my point.

 

You need to be cognizant of how the men you're dating are interpreting YOUR behavior.

 

You may mean well and behaving that way to self-protect, but THEY don't know that because you are not communicating with them about it.

 

You are reacting defensively and pulling back...instead of being honest, genuine and real.

 

You are pretending.

 

I say this with love LL, please stop doing that, pretending.

 

I think that is why all these guys get turned off eventually.

 

You are not being real with them, and they eventually come to not trust you because of it.

[Lovelorn00]

Well, instead of making passive aggressive comments about labels and then being bummed that he didn't label you, just talk to him about it. He was put on the spot with the friend and didn't know what to say. He Should have said that you guys were dating or something like that, sure, but now it sounds like he was just following your lead.

 

You don't have to phrase it, "do you want me to be your girlfriend?" but you could say something like, "I want to check in about what we are doing here; it's been about two months and I want to know if we are exclusive or not and what that means for us."

 

He actually already told me that we were exclusive. I think? I don't know. Later that same night, when we were in the car, he told me he wasn't seeing anyone else. He actually said it quite sharply and loudly, and repeated himself multiple times to really get the point across (probably because he's aware now that I'm insane).

[Lovelorn00]

You are pretending.

 

I say this with love LL, please stop doing that, pretending.

 

I think that is why all these guys get turned off eventually.

 

You are not being real with them, and they eventually come to not trust you because of it.

 

I pretend because I'm afraid no one will actually accept me the way that I am. I feel like I'm expected to be perfect in order to be worthy of a great relationship.

 

Have you ever seen the film or read the book Gone Girl? I might've mentioned this in my last thread, but the lead female character has a monologue about what it means to be the "cool" girl in today's society, particularly when it comes to dating. Men want the "cool" girl. From the book:

 

"Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and a*** sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, **** on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl.”

 

As brutal as it sounds, it’s true. Men dream about the “cool " girl. My comment (“Do whatever you want. I’m not your girlfriend.”) was me pretending to be that “cool” girl. Don’t talk about feelings, be COOL. Don’t nag him, be COOL. Don’t bring up commitment, exclusivity, or any of those things that men usually balk at, be COOL. Don’t ask him out first – be COOL. If he wants to date around, you’re COOL with it. If he’s not communicating with you as much, you’re COOL with it.

 

You’re right – I’m pretending to be someone who doesn’t have needs and is cool with everything.

 

And THAT isn't cool at all.

[basil67]

I pretend because I'm afraid no one will actually accept me the way that I am. I feel like I'm expected to be perfect in order to be worthy of a great relationship.

 

Have you ever seen the film or read the book Gone Girl? I might've mentioned this in my last thread, but the lead female character has a monologue about what it means to be the "cool" girl in today's society, particularly when it comes to dating. Men want the "cool" girl. From the book:

 

"Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and a*** sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, **** on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl.”

 

As brutal as it sounds, it’s true. Men dream about the “cool " girl. My comment (“Do whatever you want. I’m not your girlfriend.”) was me pretending to be that “cool” girl. Don’t talk about feelings, be COOL. Don’t nag him, be COOL. Don’t bring up commitment, exclusivity, or any of those things that men usually balk at, be COOL. Don’t ask him out first – be COOL. If he wants to date around, you’re COOL with it. If he’s not communicating with you as much, you’re COOL with it.

 

You’re right – I’m pretending to be someone who doesn’t have needs and is cool with everything.

 

And THAT isn't cool at all.

 

Lovelorn, have you ever read the threads by men who say that all woman only want guys who are tall, hot, douchbag, super cool, sauve and high income? I bet you have read them and I bet you've also rolled your eyes wondering how they can be so delusional.

 

Thing is, this post of yours just nailed the female equivalent of those posts. Look at your friends who are in relationships. Do they all fit into your definition of what men want? Do you not have friends in relationships who don't gang bang? Who aren't size 2? Who aren't etc etc?

 

And do you realise you've just agreed with the observations of a psychopathic fictional character?

[katiegrl]

LL, you just have to find the right balance.

 

I am a pretty cool chick myself (or so my boyfriends have told me).... I don't nag, I let a lot of meaningless shyt roll off, am a lot of fun, sexy, light, breezy.

 

I am not pretending to be this way, this is my natural personality, always has been.

 

I don't bring up exclusivity... instead I have faith in our connection and I use my own intuition to lead the way.

 

It rarely, if ever, has failed me.

 

But I have BOUNDARIES!

 

I don't tolerate any sort of BS or other such nonsense. I am open and honest about my feelings.

 

I date one-at-a-time and if that isn't how they roll... I move on.

 

I recently tried multi-dating and hated it! Lots of games, lots of confusion. I found it exhausting!

 

Unless I feel I am being messed with, I always try to be honest, real and genuine.

 

I am not perfect by any stretch (that's for darn sure), but I am comfortable in my own skin, trust my judgment and perceptions... and again allow my own intuition to guide me.

 

Have faith in yourself girl!! Develop your intuition and use it!

 

Have faith in the connection you've developed, and start being honest with yourself first, and then him.

 

If things don't work out, then like I said before, so be it, good riddance.

 

The goal isn't finding "a" guy, it's finding "the right guy" for you.

Edited August 31, 2016 by katiegrl

[Lovelorn00]

Lovelorn, have you ever read the threads by men who say that all woman only want guys who are tall, hot, douchbag, super cool, sauve and high income? I bet you have read them and I bet you've also rolled your eyes wondering how they can be so delusional.

 

Thing is, this post of yours just nailed the female equivalent of those posts. Look at your friends who are in relationships. Do they all fit into your definition of what men want? Do you not have friends in relationships who don't gang bang? Who aren't size 2? Who aren't etc etc?

 

And do you realise you've just agreed with the observations of a psychopathic fictional character?

 

Ha! Good point. Although, I do believe that this psychopathic fictional character was created as a commentary on this very thing. But that's the thing - men DON'T want someone who is insecure, nags, talks about commitment too soon, pursues them too heavily, struggles with communication, is needy, etc. I think that's what her character is trying to say. Don't ever show hints of these things... just be COOL. But the fact is, there's a little bit of all of that in all of us in different amounts. We're all human. I just seem to be having difficulty finding someone who will accept these very human aspects of myself, as ugly as they might be.

[Lovelorn00]

I am not pretending to be this way, this is my natural personality, always has been.

 

My gf always tells me that it's going to take a very "special" guy to date me. She says that because she knows my personality isn't naturally "cool" like yours, katiegrl. I'm anxious, I'm quirky, I'm weird, I'm awkward. These are traits that aren't typically seen as attractive, so I try to hide them, because I know it can be a little too much for some people.

 

But I guess, at the end of the day, that's who I am. Maybe it is going to take a "special" guy to see all of these quirks and still say, "Gosh, despite the fact that she's a little loony, she's the girl I want to be with."

 

This guy totally seemed like that guy. He has encouraged me to show my true self when I'm around him, and I do. Somehow, he still comes around, and it makes my heart sing.

 

I just hope I haven't ruined it.

[katiegrl]

Ha! Good point. Although, I do believe that this psychopathic fictional character was created as a commentary on this very thing. But that's the thing - men DON'T want someone who is insecure, nags, talks about commitment too soon, pursues them too heavily, struggles with communication, is needy, etc. I think that's what her character is trying to say. Don't ever show hints of these things... just be COOL. But the fact is, there's a little bit of all of that in all of us in different amounts. We're all human.

 

I just seem to be having difficulty finding someone who will accept these very human aspects of myself, as ugly as they might be.

 

LL, no one is suggesting that you act insecure, nagging, discuss commitment too soon, pursue them too heavily, needy, etc.

 

Yes those things will turn men off, and women too!

 

And no you don't need to find men who will accept these traits in you.... instead you take steps to become more secure, less nagging, less needy, etc.

 

You learn to have boundaries and stick to them.

 

You learn to have faith in the connection you have developed and develop your own perception and intuition and let that be your guide.

 

You can be that cool chick but still be genuine and real.

 

Pretending to be cool, pretending to be anything, is disingenuous and phony and that is a turn off to most men, most people!

Edited August 31, 2016 by katiegrl

[basil67]

Ha! Good point. Although, I do believe that this psychopathic fictional character was created as a commentary on this very thing. But that's the thing - men DON'T want someone who is insecure, nags, talks about commitment too soon, pursues them too heavily, struggles with communication, is needy, etc. I think that's what her character is trying to say. Don't ever show hints of these things... just be COOL. But the fact is, there's a little bit of all of that in all of us in different amounts. We're all human. I just seem to be having difficulty finding someone who will accept these very human aspects of myself, as ugly as they might be.

 

I don't interpret what the character says as you do. A girl doesn't need to be cool - but I agree that a guy who doesn't want a girl who's hard work.

[katiegrl]

 

I'm anxious, I'm quirky, I'm weird, I'm awkward. These are traits that aren't typically seen as attractive, so I try to hide them, because I know it can be a little too much for some people.

 

 

Yah I can relate to those things too!

 

Especially being quirky and weird!! LOL

 

As many on this board could even attest to too, NO DOUBT!

 

We ALL have our moments.

[Dis]

Ha! Good point. Although, I do believe that this psychopathic fictional character was created as a commentary on this very thing. But that's the thing - men DON'T want someone who is insecure, nags, talks about commitment too soon, pursues them too heavily, struggles with communication, is needy, etc. I think that's what her character is trying to say. Don't ever show hints of these things... just be COOL. But the fact is, there's a little bit of all of that in all of us in different amounts. We're all human. I just seem to be having difficulty finding someone who will accept these very human aspects of myself, as ugly as they might be.

 

Lovelorn, I know its scary to put yourself out there but if you're not being yourself in your relationship...the man your dating isnt really dating YOU

 

How can a man grow to like YOU or grow to love YOU if he doesnt know who you are?

 

And if you do show a guy your true self....and he decides to take a hike...then so be it...its for the best because we all deserve a partner who knows and loves who we are....not who we pretend to be

 

I also think its hard to be yourself when your with the wrong person...in my LTRs I never had a problem being exactly who I am...however recently...I've had a tough time being myself with the guys I've dated because it didnt feel right....they didnt ask about me about myself...they werent open people....they were very egocentric men...otherwise I wouldve had no problem being my true self...there was one exception though, this guy I dated for a short while was very open and real...he wanted to know all about me....so I was myself around him....but its hard to be ourselves when we're dating men the wrong men

 

But seeing as this is a pattern for you...maybe you need to open yourself up more....that could be your solution

 

If a guy is interested in you...and wants to get to know you inside and out...you have no reason not to be yourself unless you just want to end up in a phoney relationship where you arent liked or loved for who you really are

 

And yes the point of posting on LS is to learn! I know the crowd can be tough here sometimes but you're already making progress by posting and being YOURSELF!

[katiegrl]

LL, one last thing and then I gotta skedaddle.

 

You say that you can feel him "pulling back."

 

That may be him simply needing a bit of space which is OKAY.

 

Hell, I need space and so did all of my boyfriends.

 

They understood that about me and I understood that about them.

 

The key is to not overthink it, or internally freak out.

 

It's okay.

 

Let him take his space, and when he returns have an AWESOME time like you always do.

 

It sounds like this may not be the big deal you thought it was.

 

Continue dating, continue being yourself but maybe scale back on the caustic remarks a bit.... although I should talk as I myself can be a bit of a smart arse! A LOT of a smart arse even.

 

As long as he understands that is your nature and that it's all in good playful fun, all is "cool."

 

Good luck and have fun!!

Edited September 1, 2016 by katiegrl