I've been delusional and naive

[nonrequired]

This is a pretty incredible situation i find myself in. The intention of this thread is to draw opinions about the situation, THANKS! Bear with me and my LONG POST please as it's entertaining, i think. I online courted a girl that can be described as very stubborn, narcissistic, manipulative, narrow-minded, lonely, shy, depressed, apparently schizophrenic, low self-esteem, complicated...

 

She has role-playing blogs and i've tracked down her activities, she allegorically makes characters and stories that she shares with people that explain her life. She boasts about being "evil," about being a narcissistic sociopath (i'm not sure she knows i've read this), and throughout the almost two months that we have talked, she has been "terrible" with me, and i have tried so many things. It's interesting how articulate and self-aware she can be yet still be this messed up. She's told me she's apathetic, never really been in a relationship, i could write a book about this.

 

The cool thing for me (or atleast i tell myself that) though is that i have been a calculating pseudo-sociopath myself *rolls eyes* and we have reached the point where this all will end quite soon.

 

You see, we go to the same uni and we went on our first date about 3 days ago. My intent was to show her i am also a shy human being and to ask her questions to draw more info from her. I was calculatingly being a "nice" (but also intelligent) guy.

 

Here are some findings

 

- I only got her to go on a date after i tore her down online (psychologically and verbally), she actually bit into my bait and enjoyed it. I was able to see that she can "tango" and that she likes that.

 

- On the date she felt the need to bring her brother, who apparently has significant social anxiety issues and seemed very fragile, but also nice, and i actually got along with him and talked more with him than i did with her.

 

- She was very quiet on the date, did not speak unless i spoke, but everytime i questioned her about love and "good guys" she gave me the usual type of answer she gives me. She has a fetish for a "bad guy," someone who "thinks like her." I assume that in part this is her looking for someone she identifies with and makes her feel comfortable.

 

- Again, She was very shy and quiet, barely spoke, and i was impressed with her lack of apparent emotion. If only i wasn't so nervous maybe i could remember her expressions more, but she was very silent, expressionless, but i sense the heart of someone really damaged.

 

Well i'll make this short now.. When we parted ways after our 1 hour date at the basement of the uni's library, she said "i'll message you soon," and "see you soon," the latter phrase about twice.

 

And no in the date she did not ask me anything, she was almost a mute, only ?compliments? she gave me were "i like your glasses" and "your face is symmetrical" :laugh: and i stole a sexy big smile from her when i complimented her back in my own clever way. i find that hilarious. I think she's dangerously adorable.

 

Well 3 days have passed and nothing. In her blog though, she has reposted posts that date 8 months old (meaning she searched for this) and they pretty much are cute comics that try to justify her actions a bit apolgetically. She knows i see this so its only logical to assume that this is her way of explaining her self to me.

 

So seeing as i have pretty much seen and thought all i need to think, i think the solution now is to emasculate her when (if) we meet again. This bullsh@t is ending soon. And the scary thing is that she might know this so she might postpone things just to feel safe.

 

When we meet i plan to enter into my own psuedo-sociopath form and tear her to pieces by making her feel nervous, defensive, but also understood, i'll try to be clever and charming about it all (think gregory house from house m.d.) if she's as crazy as she says she is then this will work. She even told me not to touch her, i plan to grab her hand by slinking mine up to her, if she doesn't respond negatively then... this will all end soon. And the ultimatum will be that i understand her but am tired of waiting for her. I believe i have leverage on her.

 

I believe i understand things clearer than ever now, this is the end of the line. If this doesn't work i'll move on to other people, i have learned alot about being subversive with her and this has been masochistic fun for me so whatever. I'll be her villain, the cool thing here is that she has no real clue about who i am and i seem to know plenty of her despite her "dangerousness". Actually that last part is wrong.

 

What i did on our first date was confirm that i am indeed the clever, good intentioned, nice guy that she can sense i am, and i got more of the same. She doesn't want that. So this is where i transform into her bad guy and tear down the idiotic walls surrounding her.

 

Why am i interested her? Because i sense she has a heart but just needs to be "solved," she makes me feel secure believe it or not.

Edited August 26, 2016 by nonrequired

[GorillaTheater]

Nothing like bringing the "fun" to dysfunction.

 

 

This all makes about as much sense to me as a gas-powered dog polisher, but if both of you are enjoying this, have at it.

[gorf]

 

I online courted a girl

 

She has role-playing blogs and i've tracked down her activities

 

She boasts about being "evil," about being a narcissistic sociopath

 

The cool thing for me (or atleast i tell myself that) though is that i have been a calculating pseudo-sociopath myself *rolls eyes*

 

went on our first date about 3 days ago

 

-I only got her to go on a date after i tore her down online

 

- On the date she felt the need to bring her brother

i actually got along with him and talked more with him than i did with her.

 

1 hour date at the basement of the uni's library

 

Why am i interested her? Because i sense she has a heart but just needs to be "solved," she makes me feel secure believe it or not.

 

Whew.. ok. Number one: that wasn't a date. However much you think it was, it wasn't. Why are you doing this to yourself? You just hung out with the brother of a girl who hates you and tagged along to watch.

 

I don't know why you are playing these games.. do you really think you are going to get anywhere with her? This is a fantasy you have created. It was an online fantasy, with a real person, who you sorta stalked, and then had the chance to meet in person. Thats it. She has a strong-arm ego fantasy about herself, and you do about yourself. Now you want to take these fantasy ego's and have a battle.

 

Focus on your life, get out of the basements of university's and find yourself a normal woman at a coffee shop or something with actual dating ethic. You aren't doing yourself any favors wasting time with this woman

[SoulCat]

You might be dating a sociopath, but she's definitely dating a terrible PUA wannabe.

[Gaeta]

If this doesn't work i'll move on to other people,

 

And that is why we have so many online-dating horror stories on here. No wonder it took me almost 4 years to find my BF. How many of you are out there.... It's scary.

[Timshel]

Nothing like bringing the "fun" to dysfunction.

 

 

This all makes about as much sense to me as a gas-powered dog polisher, but if both of you are enjoying this, have at it.

 

[nonrequired]

First of all, thank you for your quick replies. I want some perspective from others that i may clearly not have so thank you.

 

Nothing like bringing the "fun" to dysfunction.

 

 

This all makes about as much sense to me as a gas-powered dog polisher, but if both of you are enjoying this, have at it.

I like your sense of humor .

 

This is sickly fun for me in someways indeed. I have been thinking recently that the only "relationship" i have ever been in (this should give added insight to the readers about me) was a 5 year "fun" psychological warfare, S&M bromance with another stubborn, narcissistic, close-minded, but quite intelligent (imo) person. In this case a guy. The thing here is that i want to have crazy fun with someone who also understands how to ride the lines of what i call "taste." Taste referring to actually making both people in the relationship feel very happy to be in it despite it's gruesome nature.

 

I seem to want to have well understood, self-aware, "caring", subversive s&m fun.

 

Whew.. ok. Number one: that wasn't a date. However much you think it was, it wasn't. Why are you doing this to yourself? You just hung out with the brother of a girl who hates you and tagged along to watch.

 

I don't know why you are playing these games.. do you really think you are going to get anywhere with her? This is a fantasy you have created. It was an online fantasy, with a real person, who you sorta stalked, and then had the chance to meet in person. Thats it. She has a strong-arm ego fantasy about herself, and you do about yourself. Now you want to take these fantasy ego's and have a battle.

 

Focus on your life, get out of the basements of university's and find yourself a normal woman at a coffee shop or something with actual dating ethic. You aren't doing yourself any favors wasting time with this woman

 

See this is one of the negatives about sharing my story, you're not in my shoes so you can't see all that i have seen, which means i need to explain too much. I may be wrong about everything but i say this because i just don't agree completely with you i suppose.

 

Your post is very interesting hough. imo. Thanks.

 

Why would you say she hates me? Can you elaborate on what you interpret this situation to be?

 

What do you mean by it was an online fantasy? What i saw in real life confirms the apocalyptically screwed up stuff i saw online. The next time i meet her would be an opportunity to break the glass wall and make her know that i'll be glad to wreak havoc but that she has to act soon or else it's over.

 

You see one thing i didn't mention is that both her brother and her both seemed like autistic children in some ways, i don't think i'm dealing with ted bundy here lol. That's the problem with sharing my story and not providing a book worth's of perspective. But please do explain as you might help me and i'd appreciate it.

 

I agree with your last statement. THIS IS SICK, not healthy, dysfunctional to the core, , but what gives me peace is that i know i'll move on and have a healthy relationship with someone. This has gotta end soon. We either become something or nothing.

 

 

 

 

You might be dating a sociopath, but she's definitely dating a terrible PUA wannabe.

 

I think i understand why you may have read me as that and i'm afraid i think you misread me. That's the thing about me, i'm a "good guy," this is just a sick situation.

[Gaeta]

i'm a "good guy," this is just a sick situation.

 

Good guys don't go after: girl that can be described as very stubborn, narcissistic, manipulative, narrow-minded, lonely, shy, depressed, apparently schizophrenic, low self-esteem, complicated...

 

Good guys go after good girls to build good, simple and uncomplicated life together.

 

You enjoy drama that is why you do what you do.

[nonrequired]

Good guys don't go after: girl that can be described as very stubborn, narcissistic, manipulative, narrow-minded, lonely, shy, depressed, apparently schizophrenic, low self-esteem, complicated...

 

Good guys go after good girls to build good, simple and uncomplicated life together.

 

You enjoy drama that is why you do what you do.

 

You guys have said interesting things, thanks

 

What i meant by "good" is that i don't care to watch others suffer, or at least the way the two people i've mentioned seem to. I wouldn't go on a date with a "good girl" and ruin her life. I could be subversive and aware of what i do (which is manipulation in the good sense of the word) so that i create a win-win situation for both of us whether it be a break-up or whatever, but i wouldn't decimate them. I don't get a high off that. I'd never date a "good girl" as you define them and make them feel bad or use them as dolls and then throw them away.

 

I seem to enjoy drama yes, and "gorf" may have a point in that this seems like a battle of egos between me and her in some ways.

 

I guess part of this is me...

 

Wanting to "slay the dragon" and then having endless fun and producing diabolically sexy offspring with it.

[gorf]

 

I guess part of this is me...

 

Wanting to "slay the dragon" and then having endless fun and producing diabolically sexy offspring with it.

 

Hahaha!!! Im done. Good luck on your quest

[ChickiePops]

You guys have said interesting things, thanks

 

What i meant by "good" is that i don't care to watch others suffer, or at least the way the two people i've mentioned seem to. I wouldn't go on a date with a "good girl" and ruin her life. I could be subversive and aware of what i do (which is manipulation in the good sense of the word) so that i create a win-win situation for both of us whether it be a break-up or whatever, but i wouldn't decimate them. I don't get a high off that. I'd never date a "good girl" as you define them and make them feel bad or use them as dolls and then throw them away.

 

I seem to enjoy drama yes, and "gorf" may have a point in that this seems like a battle of egos between me and her in some ways.

 

I guess part of this is me...

 

Wanting to "slay the dragon" and then having endless fun and producing diabolically sexy offspring with it.

 

I really, really, really hope you mean this figuratively because neither you nor this psycho chick should ever have kids, nor should any child ever be referred to as 'sexy'.

 

 

That being said, as long as you're both permanently sterilized (and soon please) then it's great that you two found each other. Saves the rest of the dating world from having to deal with the nonsense that you two seem to enjoy putting each other through.

 

 

As long as no one is getting hurt (including her brother, I really hope she leaves him out of it from now on..unless he plans to join you guys in a threesome which, from the way you both sound, does not seem out of the question), go forth and let your freak flags fly.

[ExpatInItaly]

My observations:

 

You weren't on a date. She brought her brother, OP. Women who want a date don't do so. She wanted to make sure you didn't try anything romantic and it worked. Sorry, but you're in the Friend Zone. I don't think she's trying to play games with you at all; I think she's trying to make it clear that she isn't interested in you romantically.

 

You and she both have very low self-esteem. I say this because you're both so busy trying to project an image of a "tough" and "subversive" person that you aren't being true to who you really are. She thinks people won't like her or pay attention to her unless she paints herself as a crazy chick, and I'm getting the same impression from you. You are trying very hard to be the Tough Guy and tear her down, because you believe she otherwise probably wouldn't pay any attention to you.

 

If you believe that the above is the foundation of a healthy or sustainable relationship, you are in a for a reality check.

[katiegrl]

 

If you believe that the above is the foundation of a healthy or sustainable relationship, you are in a for a reality check.

 

That's not what he wants though... so it's kind of a moot point.

 

He prefers highly charged, over-the-top, histrionic situations/interactions with highly dysfunctional/mentally unstable women.

 

To each his own... best of luck with that OP.

[Redhead14]

This is a pretty incredible situation i find myself in. The intention of this thread is to draw opinions about the situation, THANKS! Bear with me and my LONG POST please as it's entertaining, i think. I online courted a girl that can be described as very stubborn, narcissistic, manipulative, narrow-minded, lonely, shy, depressed, apparently schizophrenic, low self-esteem, complicated...

 

She has role-playing blogs and i've tracked down her activities, she allegorically makes characters and stories that she shares with people that explain her life. She boasts about being "evil," about being a narcissistic sociopath (i'm not sure she knows i've read this), and throughout the almost two months that we have talked, she has been "terrible" with me, and i have tried so many things. It's interesting how articulate and self-aware she can be yet still be this messed up. She's told me she's apathetic, never really been in a relationship, i could write a book about this.

 

The cool thing for me (or atleast i tell myself that) though is that i have been a calculating pseudo-sociopath myself *rolls eyes* and we have reached the point where this all will end quite soon.

 

You see, we go to the same uni and we went on our first date about 3 days ago. My intent was to show her i am also a shy human being and to ask her questions to draw more info from her. I was calculatingly being a "nice" (but also intelligent) guy.

 

Here are some findings

 

- I only got her to go on a date after i tore her down online (psychologically and verbally), she actually bit into my bait and enjoyed it. I was able to see that she can "tango" and that she likes that.

 

- On the date she felt the need to bring her brother, who apparently has significant social anxiety issues and seemed very fragile, but also nice, and i actually got along with him and talked more with him than i did with her.

 

- She was very quiet on the date, did not speak unless i spoke, but everytime i questioned her about love and "good guys" she gave me the usual type of answer she gives me. She has a fetish for a "bad guy," someone who "thinks like her." I assume that in part this is her looking for someone she identifies with and makes her feel comfortable.

 

- Again, She was very shy and quiet, barely spoke, and i was impressed with her lack of apparent emotion. If only i wasn't so nervous maybe i could remember her expressions more, but she was very silent, expressionless, but i sense the heart of someone really damaged.

 

Well i'll make this short now.. When we parted ways after our 1 hour date at the basement of the uni's library, she said "i'll message you soon," and "see you soon," the latter phrase about twice.

 

And no in the date she did not ask me anything, she was almost a mute, only ?compliments? she gave me were "i like your glasses" and "your face is symmetrical" :laugh: and i stole a sexy big smile from her when i complimented her back in my own clever way. i find that hilarious. I think she's dangerously adorable.

 

Well 3 days have passed and nothing. In her blog though, she has reposted posts that date 8 months old (meaning she searched for this) and they pretty much are cute comics that try to justify her actions a bit apolgetically. She knows i see this so its only logical to assume that this is her way of explaining her self to me.

 

So seeing as i have pretty much seen and thought all i need to think, i think the solution now is to emasculate her when (if) we meet again. This bullsh@t is ending soon. And the scary thing is that she might know this so she might postpone things just to feel safe.

 

When we meet i plan to enter into my own psuedo-sociopath form and tear her to pieces by making her feel nervous, defensive, but also understood, i'll try to be clever and charming about it all (think gregory house from house m.d.) if she's as crazy as she says she is then this will work. She even told me not to touch her, i plan to grab her hand by slinking mine up to her, if she doesn't respond negatively then... this will all end soon. And the ultimatum will be that i understand her but am tired of waiting for her. I believe i have leverage on her.

 

I believe i understand things clearer than ever now, this is the end of the line. If this doesn't work i'll move on to other people, i have learned alot about being subversive with her and this has been masochistic fun for me so whatever. I'll be her villain, the cool thing here is that she has no real clue about who i am and i seem to know plenty of her despite her "dangerousness". Actually that last part is wrong.

 

What i did on our first date was confirm that i am indeed the clever, good intentioned, nice guy that she can sense i am, and i got more of the same. She doesn't want that. So this is where i transform into her bad guy and tear down the idiotic walls surrounding her.

 

Why am i interested her? Because i sense she has a heart but just needs to be "solved," she makes me feel secure believe it or not.

 

My friend, I don't know whether or not she is a sociopath. However, I am a little concerned about your pathology. You seem to be very high on how you are going about things with her, i.e. being in her head and what you perceive as cross-manipulating her, etc.

 

"What i did on our first date was confirm that i am indeed the clever, good intentioned, nice guy that she can sense i am, and i got more of the same. She doesn't want that. So this is where i transform into her bad guy and tear down the idiotic walls surrounding her."

 

i plan to grab her hand by slinking mine up to her, if she doesn't respond negatively then... this will all end soon. And the ultimatum will be that i understand her but am tired of waiting for her. I believe i have leverage on her.

i think the solution now is to emasculate her when (if) we meet again.

 

When we meet i plan to enter into my own psuedo-sociopath form and tear her to pieces by making her feel nervous, defensive, but also understood, i'll try to be clever and charming about it all (think gregory house from house m.d.) if she's as crazy as she says she is then this will work.

 

All of the above highlighted comments are in themselves about manipulative thinking . . . and in as much as she has given you the impression that she's moved on anyway, all this is simply ideological and a form of self-aggrandizement.

 

If she is a sociopath, she may be dating herself . . .

Edited August 26, 2016 by Redhead14

[Satu]

Too much ego.

 

Find out who you really are underneath all the pretending.

 

 

Take care.

[nonrequired]

Actually i've said what i needed to be said, freaked my self out for a second so had to delete the quite good post i just made. Heehee, i am indeed cray cray .

 

Thank you everyone. I appreciate your input and i agree with most of what's said. Take that as you may.

 

What can i say, i guess the darkness has it's beautiful perks. No one will get hurt.

 

 

"Intellect alone is useless in a fight Mr.Spock"

Edited August 26, 2016 by nonrequired

[SoulCat]

 

@SoulCat

I think i understand why you may have read me as that and i'm afraid i think you misread me.

 

 

 

I only got her to go on a date after i tore her down online (psychologically and verbally)

 

i think the solution now is to emasculate her when (if) we meet again. This bullsh@t is ending soon.

 

When we meet i plan to enter into my own psuedo-sociopath form and tear her to pieces by making her feel nervous, defensive, but also understood, i'll try to be clever and charming about it all

 

She even told me not to touch her, i plan to grab her hand by slinking mine up to her, if she doesn't respond negatively then... this will all end soon. And the ultimatum will be that i understand her but am tired of waiting for her. I believe i have leverage on her.

 

 

No mate, I got you pegged alright. That cr@p you posted is straight out of any PUA handbook. The terminology you use alone gives that stupid game away.

[AMJ]

 

She has role-playing blogs and i've tracked down her activities, she allegorically makes characters and stories that she shares with people that explain her life. She boasts about being "evil," about being a narcissistic sociopath

 

What exactly is brag-worthy about being evil, narcissistic, and a sociopath? Serious question.

 

 

The cool thing for me (or atleast i tell myself that) though is that i have been a calculating pseudo-sociopath myself *rolls eyes* and we have reached the point where this all will end quite soon.

 

"This will all end soon"- do we need to contact the police? That sounds ominous and you're telling us that you are insane.

 

 

So seeing as i have pretty much seen and thought all i need to think, i think the solution now is to emasculate her when (if) we meet again. This bullsh@t is ending soon. And the scary thing is that she might know this so she might postpone things just to feel safe.

 

Once again, what exactly is ending soon???

 

When we meet i plan to enter into my own psuedo-sociopath form and tear her to pieces by making her feel nervous, defensive, but also understood, i'll try to be clever and charming about it all (think gregory house from house m.d.) if she's as crazy as she says she is then this will work. She even told me not to touch her, i plan to grab her hand by slinking mine up to her, if she doesn't respond negatively then... this will all end soon. And the ultimatum will be that i understand her but am tired of waiting for her. I believe i have leverage on her.

 

Sorry, you don't sound like charming Dr. House here. This calculating, plotting is just eerie.

[Boo1738]

Okay, so here's the thing. Gregory House was a fictional character. What's more, he was a brilliant Doctor, as well as devastatingly handsome, for which I have a sneaking suspicion you are neither.

 

And lastly, if you recall... He was miserably unhappy and unable to sustain any sort of relationship with women who weren't hookers. So maybe find another muse.

 

Nothing about this makes you seem interesting or clever. It's kind of sad. Maybe instead of seeking to get inside someone's head who's clearly unwell, you should consider getting inside your own and discovering what went so wrong that you think human emotions should be a game.

 

You sound like a guy who spends the majority of his life on the Internet and this is an attempt to cultivate a personality. Take off the fedora, unplug, and take up basket weaving or something.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Boo1738

[nonrequired]

First of all, Sorry. I can see why i unsettled things a bit around here. I let my own neurosis take me too far and these are some of the effects.

 

I've figured that this girl probably does in part see me as quite an enemy. The role-playing, she's role played as the ultimate "evil" and i have role-played as the incorruptible "hero". And i'm afraid she doesn't understand the situation as i see it. I think she's lost. Or at least fundamentally more so than i am.

 

Right now it's kind of like the irresistible force meeting the immovable object, and it's not all ego but also fear and neurosis involved in all of this.

 

I still stand by my core idea that it is important to try to act and anticipate in order to fix a situation. But i won't pretend like that will be easily understood here. What i will do is simple, i'll ask her to be forward as i've had enough, and if she isn't i will and i will explain everything to her, since she's such a fan of logic , and if that doesn't work i move on and wish her the best. I'm done. This isn't good for me.

 

Bottom line, this is Moriarty AND Sherlock having ultimately healthy fun that i want, not some demented bs.

 

My only question now is whether we can work out and if not then i move on. I'll be the "healthy" one lol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9KNb53TkY

 

Ya ya ya, i like my imagination, deal with it.

From nonrequired with love.

Edited August 27, 2016 by nonrequired

[ExpatInItaly]

I think this girl sees right through your game.

 

This is why she essentially avoids you. She knows you've built up some elaborate scenario in your head and doesn't want to be part of it. Her brother didn't tag along because he has social anxiety; he was there as a buffer in case you got out of line. She barely spoke because, well, she doesn't want to get to know you.

 

It's a shame you can't see it because you're essentially embarrassing yourself in front of her.

[basil67]

Birds of a feather flock together. You and she are perfect for each other.

[elaine567]

She sounds like a very mixed up, mentally unstable girl.

 

Tearing people down may be "fun" but in real life it leads to mental instability, self medication with drugs and alcohol and the creation of very vulnerable self destructive people.

You also sound somewhat "on the edge", maybe you need to ask yourself why you think manipulating vulnerable people is such a good game... Take that as your next project instead.

 

Stay away from her, do not be responsible for unravelling a mind that already sounds like she is in trouble.

[nonrequired]

I'll write this one last time.

 

The situation is that in the meet up i was a nice guy and she was not a receptive person. She was rude and distant towards me and kept reiterating that she liked evil men and that she didn't believe in love. She made this clear when she mentioned her favorite movie, song, book, and even desired career. She even wore a pentagram around her neck. And when she agreed to go on the date with me she told me through the messaging system that it was because she thought i was as crazy as she is. She rejected my good nature and then kept boasting on her blog after the meeting about how she's a psychopath and how evil is great. Note that she did this by re-blogging and not actually writing anything. So no, the problem is not that i seem like the creep. I think she does see me as an enemy. And no this is not just a ruse on her part to play around even more with me; her history going back to years, everything points out that what i've seen is the real thing. The fact that she's "psycho" is one of the first things she made clear to me, probably unbeknownst to herself.

 

I needed this to happen to see with my own eyes how "troubled" she is.

 

Now i messaged her again saying hi and she didn't respond. Which gives another cue, so i either make a last meet up where i can make things clear with her or i tell her through messaging that i accept her craziness but that she has to put in effort on her part. If that doesn't work then goodbye girl, good luck, and i move on. Never again will i step into this kind of idiocy.

 

I know some of you are rightfully passive-aggressive (and beyond ^-^) with me, i understand i painted a sick picture of me here, but again, i really am not as demented and lost as you might think. Although the fact that i am even still here should cue you in that i am perhaps at least a "nice" demented idiot.

Edited August 27, 2016 by nonrequired

[oldshirt]

I went out with a gal once. She seemed pretty nice and we had some common interests and could talk about a variety of topics.

 

I found out she smoked.

 

I didn't want to date or get involved with a smoker so we went our separate ways.

 

we've both lived happily ever after.