Should I tell my friend she needs to lower her expectations?

[elaine567]

She needs to make her own mistakes and who is to say one of these hot white dudes won't see her as relationship material and they ride off into the sunset together.

It is none of your business who she chooses to date. She is the one who is attracted to these guys so she, like everyone else, will suss out what she likes, what she can tolerate, and what she doesn't like.

No-one else can decide for her and she will resent anyone who tells her what to do, so you may just make things ten times worse, by telling her she needs to lower her expectations. No-one likes being told what to do, so she will probably just do the exact opposite just to spite you, or she may go into a deep depression over it, are you prepared for that?

Let her work out the dating world for herself, she may be being pumped and dumped by those guys, or she may be being binned as she doesn't put out or she may just not be a match for them, who knows?

I don't believe anyone should mess around in other people's dating lives, as they think "they know best", sometimes they don't and it would have been better if they had not interfered at all.

Leave her alone and stay out of it, is my advice.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I vote for the bolded.

 

I am going through a different but similar situation with my roommate. She says she wants a serious relationship, but A) she finds all the relationship-minded men "boring," and B) she seems to prioritize dating guys who are not interested in relationships, and then wonders why she gets her heart broken every three months.

 

Having gone through this with her for several cycles now, I can see her blind spots, but if I (or anyone else) point these things out to her, she gets defensive. So, I have just stopped trying to point these things out.

 

I think what your friend needs to learn can only be learned by going through. You telling her isn't going to be enough.

 

Kind of reminds me of this one woman that lives in my area. At the time, she was in her late 30s at the time, like me. And she was the ONLY sibling left in her family that never married, no kids. she is attractive, fit.

 

She was getting asked out, but not by the men she wanted to date. And these bachelor were well known in the community to great matches for her. Some of her friends and family were even taking her aside saying, "Seriously, you may want to consider giving these guys a shot...yeah yeah, I know he's a little short, but he's a great, law-abiding guy compared to these other creeps you've been going out with."

 

A lot of people thought she'd wind up being a spinster at that rate.

[Ruby Slippers]

I don't know why people looking for something serious are on Tinder. Don't they know what it's for? I have never heard a happy ending story from Tinder, have you?

I used to agree with you, and in general I still do think Tinder is mostly a hookup site. But I have a reasonably pretty white colleague who met her hot, wealthy Latino man on Tinder, and now they're engaged and just bought a house together. She seems happy with him, if a bit insecure about his hotness and desirability to many women versus her kinda pretty girl status.

 

Masses of women have the opportunity to date men more physically attractive than them for the first time in history, really. That's a certain kind of power. I've done it myself, even without trying. I'm realistically 6-7. I've been pursued my whole life by most "leagues", most aggressively and persistently by men 7-9, got to the point with a few that they brought up marriage.

 

I consider the whole person, and I'm probably more forgiving on looks than most. But I need to be with a man who has a healthy amount of masculine drive. Good-looking men tend to have this because the world has projected a good amount of attention and support their way all along. So their buck is up, naturally and fairly effortlessly, which is very attractive.

 

If her mom knew what she was doing she'd set her straight in a heart beat. I've only met her once, but (and this is truly ironic) she did not like me one bit. My friend said her mom told her after I left, to watch out for me because she thinks i'm going to try and sleep with her, and that she shouldn't hang out with guys like me. I can't say I disagree with the lady.

It sounds to me as though you see yourself as one of these "out of her league", tall, cute white guys, and jealous that she's attracting guys in your league and possibly beyond.

 

She knows what her options are, and she's choosing to go for what she really wants. Who are you to judge? You'd do the same, right? It's not permissible for her because she's a girl?

 

At first I got the impression you wanted to have this talk with her because you cared. From this statement, I now get the impression you're jealous.

 

If you're genuinely attracted to her and interested, then get to know her better. But I don't think you really care about her that much. If you did, you wouldn't be diminishing her as "not ugly by any means, but short, a little thick, and hispanic". You think these men are above her and you think you're above her. But in truth, nobody's above anybody. That's just an idea in your head.

[Ruby Slippers]

However I was getting quite offended when the not so good looking guys were clearly aiming for sex only. I was thinking do you own a mirror? You're not in that league . I somehow allowed in my mind the hot guys to look for sex only from women like me but not the similarly or more chubby ones that were balding and 10 years older.

Right? I'm thinking, "Ummm, if I just wanted hot sex, there's a 6'4" athlete with an adorable smile and sexy sportscar in line already."

 

But no matter how cute they are, I always find this kind of guy sad.

[preraph]

Why teach her a lesson by hurting her feelings that OLD will teach her soon enough anyway.

[sc0316]

Funny how OP uses this one-dimensional scale (namely, looks) to rate people, or categorize people into leagues. In my opinion, such one-dimensional scale probably applies to casual hookups only.

 

Ruby Slippers was very observant—I almost overlooked the statement that OP thought he was out of his female friend's league. Wow!!

Edited August 27, 2016 by sc0316

[insert_name]

I used to agree with you, and in general I still do think Tinder is mostly a hookup site. But I have a reasonably pretty white colleague who met her hot, wealthy Latino man on Tinder, and now they're engaged and just bought a house together. She seems happy with him, if a bit insecure about his hotness and desirability to many women versus her kinda pretty girl status.

 

Masses of women have the opportunity to date men more physically attractive than them for the first time in history, really. That's a certain kind of power. I've done it myself, even without trying. I'm realistically 6-7. I've been pursued my whole life by most "leagues", most aggressively and persistently by men 7-9, got to the point with a few that they brought up marriage.

 

I consider the whole person, and I'm probably more forgiving on looks than most. But I need to be with a man who has a healthy amount of masculine drive. Good-looking men tend to have this because the world has projected a good amount of attention and support their way all along. So their buck is up, naturally and fairly effortlessly, which is very attractive.

 

 

It sounds to me as though you see yourself as one of these "out of her league", tall, cute white guys, and jealous that she's attracting guys in your league and possibly beyond.

 

She knows what her options are, and she's choosing to go for what she really wants. Who are you to judge? You'd do the same, right? It's not permissible for her because she's a girl?

 

At first I got the impression you wanted to have this talk with her because you cared. From this statement, I now get the impression you're jealous.

 

If you're genuinely attracted to her and interested, then get to know her better. But I don't think you really care about her that much. If you did, you wouldn't be diminishing her as "not ugly by any means, but short, a little thick, and hispanic". You think these men are above her and you think you're above her. But in truth, nobody's above anybody. That's just an idea in your head.

 

He could be attracted to her of course, but don't discount that the OP is a man and therefore knows how men think, which seems to be escaping some of the female posters in this thread. It seems obvious to me but women somehow struggle with the concept that a hot, attractive guy in good shape is probably not going to be interested in a girl who isn't in the best shape for anything other than a quick roll in the hay while no-one is looking.

 

Of course there are always exceptions to this, people are people and have all sorts of tastes and preferences but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then 9/10 it's a duck. She keeps getting (according to OP) pumped and dumped by these guys so at some point she has to open herself up to a bit of introspection and understand that her choices might be holding her back. I get the impression OP realises this and that is where he is coming from.

 

That being said, you can't coach people to adjust what they look for in a partner- she seems to have very superficial taste and that is a cross she is probably going to have to bear. OP won'the change that.

 

I look forward to her authoring one of those equal parts hilarious and awful 'where have all the good men gone' blogs in a few years time.

[Ruby Slippers]

She keeps getting (according to OP) pumped and dumped by these guys so at some point she has to open herself up to a bit of introspection and understand that her choices might be holding her back.

The OP said in the first post she's not having sex with them, just not getting past the first date. I don't think it's necessarily superficial to let your carnal desires drive your dating life. Most men do it. Why is it wrong for a woman to do the same?

 

Do you warn your male friends from chasing women out of their league who are likely to "pump and dump" them financially or emotionally?

[sc0316]

OP: Does it occur to you that there are girls who would rather go on a couple of fun dates with those guys she's attracted to (and potentially have a bit of disappointment along the way) than date those guys she deems boring?

[Moves Like Jagger]

I'm never been a big fan of the lower your expectations crowd. I always got the feeling that they expect both men and women to stay in their league out of some moral obligation. Stay in your league, pal! Either, they flame you for chasing after that hottie. Or like this thread, the OP treats her female friend like a naughty child who needs to be taught a lesson about how big bad, tall, attractive guys ruthlessly pursue average to below-average women as targets for easy sex.

 

At the same time, the lower your expectations camp never talks about self-improvement. They don't talk about empowering people so that they can get the lives they want through encouraging people to work on their appearance or to develop a flirtatious personality. Your preferences don't matter because you need to stay in your league.

 

I agree that Tinder is a hookup site. Instead of telling her to stay in her league and to date some plain nice guy, why don't you encourage her to join a church singles group or a Meetup group. There are plenty of athletic, relationship-minded guys who like short, stocky women. Yesterday, I saw an athletic guy who was with a woman who had a little extra weight. I know several athletic guys who married women on the average side. I remember this charming, frat guy who married this quiet girl who was only a little bit above average.

 

Some of these posts imply that most good-looking guys are players who are looking for easy sex. They're so horny that they can't control themselves. There is a big difference between Tinder guys who are looking for sex versus a relationship-minded guy who wants to get a girlfriend and maybe get married and have kids down the line. News to the your lower expectations crowd. Not all guys, including good-looking guys, are out on a mission to sleep with every woman who has a pulse. There are actually lots of guys who treat women like people instead of sex objects and who want to get in a relationship.

 

There's also the mention of Hispanic. I found the reference weird because in my city, Hispanics and whites have been dating and having kids with each other for a long-time. A lot of Hispanics consider themselves white.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I'm never been a big fan of the lower your expectations crowd. I always got the feeling that they expect both men and women to stay in their league out of some moral obligation. Stay in your league, pal! Either, they flame you for chasing after that hottie. Or like this thread, the OP treats her female friend like a naughty child who needs to be taught a lesson about how big bad, tall, attractive guys ruthlessly pursue average to below-average women as targets for easy sex.

 

At the same time, the lower your expectations camp never talks about self-improvement. They don't talk about empowering people so that they can get the lives they want through encouraging people to work on their appearance or to develop a flirtatious personality. Your preferences don't matter because you need to stay in your league.

 

I agree that Tinder is a hookup site. Instead of telling her to stay in her league and to date some plain nice guy, why don't you encourage her to join a church singles group or a Meetup group. There are plenty of athletic, relationship-minded guys who like short, stocky women. Yesterday, I saw an athletic guy who was with a woman who had a little extra weight. I know several athletic guys who married women on the average side. I remember this charming, frat guy who married this quiet girl who was only a little bit above average.

 

Some of these posts imply that most good-looking guys are players who are looking for easy sex. They're so horny that they can't control themselves. There is a big difference between Tinder guys who are looking for sex versus a relationship-minded guy who wants to get a girlfriend and maybe get married and have kids down the line. News to the your lower expectations crowd. Not all guys, including good-looking guys, are out on a mission to sleep with every woman who has a pulse. There are actually lots of guys who treat women like people instead of sex objects and who want to get in a relationship.

 

There's also the mention of Hispanic. I found the reference weird because in my city, Hispanics and whites have been dating and having kids with each other for a long-time. A lot of Hispanics consider themselves white.

 

I admit I have not read all of the posts, but HISPANIC is not a racial designation. It is more accurately a cultural one. So, of course some hispanicp people consider themselves as white.

 

Some people need to be realistic and examine why the so-called good looking people are not attracted to them. No amount of self-improvement is going to change certain features/attributes, details that will suddenly attract the attention of the 10s or 9s....whatever. BUT, I do admit that doesn't mean that there isn't the decent, young guy who is looking for a real relationship. I am not your conventional type of person. I've been told that I am very handsome, etc., but I know that I'm not drop dead gorgeous by any means. BUT that doesn't stop me from asking the amazing brunette that could easily be a model. I usually fail, but not always...

 

I don't know. OP, if you are concerned that your friend is going to get hurt, be watchful. If she does land a 10-ish guy, be a good friend and keep an eye on this guy and give your opinions, comfort, support when needed. Otherwise, again, let her figure it out herself.

[h0000]

I don't think anyone should lower their expectations. Instead we should have a realistic view of ourselves and work harder to improve ourselves to match our high expectations.

[Weezy1973]

People of like attractiveness levels pair up in relationships. So much research on this at this point that it's indisputable. Google the term "matching phenomenon" and you'll see it's just a fact.

 

When it comes to casual sex, men will go way below their attractiveness level, whereas women will almost exclusively go above their attractiveness level. Again, lots of research on this.

 

I think it's very possible that the woman in question here knows exactly what she's doing, is looking for some casual fun, and knows she can have fun with some very attractive men. The story she's telling the OP might not quite be as accurate as he thinks....

[LookAtThisPOst]

I don't know. OP, if you are concerned that your friend is going to get hurt, be watchful. If she does land a 10-ish guy, be a good friend and keep an eye on this guy and give your opinions, comfort, support when needed. Otherwise, again, let her figure it out herself.

 

Agreed. I recall a woman, who was short and stalky, but I thought was the cute next door type, had a profile that said, "Don't be skinnier than me, because I'll be jealous of your metabolism."

 

And in a sense, although it was a stupid remark she put in her profile, that remark also wreaks of insecurity. To be "jealous" of my metabolism? That's a new one. With a society that's embracing fat acceptance, it seems to be leaning in more that direction considering that the obesity rates have skyrocketed into the United States to the point where people find it acceptable NOT to loose weight and embrace your inner Duncan Donuts.

 

There IS something to be said that when overweight people only shoot for the washboard ab types, they really need to date their equals in looks if those men aren't interested in them.

 

There was a woman I kind of had a thing for, she had some weight on her, but cute face and pretty eyes. Funny thing is, after a couple of years had passed, I noticed on POF she had gained even more weight and now...it's kind of like bullet dodged because she passed that line into "obesity."

 

Anyways, she was crushing on some marathon runner guy and she had no interest in me. I had to laugh, because he had NO interest in dating her...for obvious reasons...obviously.

 

Recommendation..."Know your limits!"

 

Like others have said, it all amounts to having realistic expectations, and understanding what you offer in the dating realm.

 

Right and some people call it "lowering expectations" when it's more about having realistic expectations.

 

Like a 5'2" woman that will ONLY date a man 6 feet or taller, why? Because "I wear heels". That's throwing materialism into the mix.

 

I mean, don't get me wrong, you can ATTEMPT to go after the 9s and 10s model with a rockin hot body that turns ALL mens' heads at the gym, even the athletic ones...go for it, you never know she may be that small percentage that's reached a point that's sick of the juiceheads and going a diff. direction.

Edited August 29, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[LookAtThisPOst]

It's more like, we want to get laid, and that more homely looking girl is a sure thing

 

Right, men in prison with NO women around still have that need, and well....you know what happens in prison and well, men are willing to do it. They don't need the person, just the equipment. (Trying to speak as cryptically as I can here. lol)

[Revolver]

The OP said in the first post she's not having sex with them, just not getting past the first date. I don't think it's necessarily superficial to let your carnal desires drive your dating life. Most men do it. Why is it wrong for a woman to do the same?

 

Do you warn your male friends from chasing women out of their league who are likely to "pump and dump" them financially or emotionally?

 

1.) She might say that but do you really believe it? Lol what woman is gonna openly say that? That's something generally speaking your embarrassed about and keep it on the down low

 

2.)Generally speaking dudes don't get to hook up with girls out of their league. There is no such thing as male groupies for a reason

[LookAtThisPOst]

1.) She might say that but do you really believe it? Lol what woman is gonna openly say that? That's something generally speaking your embarrassed about and keep it on the down low

 

2.)Generally speaking dudes don't get to hook up with girls out of their league. There is no such thing as male groupies for a reason

 

 

Right, and why there's only a ladies night in clubs/bars and not a "Mens' Night"

[mortensorchid]

I have tried what you have referred to in "lowering my expectations". I have tried to not look for the cutest man in the room, I have not gone for the rock and rollers like I did when I was in my twenties, I have tried to go for "the nice guy", etc. And all I can say about this is that if it's right then it's right, and when it's wrong it is REALLY WRONG. And there is a Mr. / Miss Right out there for all of us, but there are so, so, so many Mr. / Miss Wrongs. And you will meet them 99% of the time. That is what's happening to her, and no doubt anyone out there reading this has meet countless numbers of them. Ultimately all you can say to them is "keep trying".

[scooby-philly]

Has she even asked you for your opinion or intervention?

 

A lot of "I"'s in that post--none of this is about her: it's about you telling her to proceed in her life in a fashion you approve. That's not your place. She's grown--she is allowed her preferences and she's not going to damage her reputation or emotions. You esteem her very slenderly if you think that.

 

I think that you're making this more about what you're comfortable with and not giving an iota of respect to her right to make her own choices. It's not your job to save her from her learning experiences. She will learn them faster if she's allowed to make her own mistakes without interference especially when it wasn't asked for in the first place.

 

This is a good call out. Not to say we know the OP's real intentions or or inner psychological workings.

 

I think she's trying to be a friend - but to the point of the comment it's a bit one sided. Perhaps it was that incident that made the OP want to say something and therefore post on here.

 

All that said, the question is two-fold. #1 - Is it right to say something. Only the OP can figure that out because she knows her and also knows the gap between what her friend might be saying and what she's doing (i.e. if she's really complaining about not finding a suitable guy to date off of Tinder connections but proceeds to continue to do it - she may either not be aware of what most people are on Tinder for or has a unconscious habit of going after guys she's not compatible with - which you can do subconsciously). And only the OP can go inside of herself and figure out WHY she wants to say something. I was great friends with a couple who always had relationship advice for people despite the fact that their own dating history before meeting each other was sketchy at best and they weren't as smart as they pretended to be. That said if the OP wants to offer a piece of advice - there's plenty of ways to go about it nicely

 

#2 - I'm surprised that people haven't mentioned two facts - one the OP is assuming her friend doesn't really get Twitter - maybe she's in need of sex and secondly - the OP said she's the one contacting the guys (in secondary comment) and I'll say unless there's a warning flag up on a dating site or even Tinder when I was on - I'll at least start chatting with a woman who shows initiative.