Opening Up Our Marriage

[Popsicle]

You fear that your wife is going to fall in love with this other man or some other man. Your fear is legitimate. That probably will happen and you'll probably fall in love too with another woman for that matter.

 

That doesn't mean that she will divorce you or that you will divorce her. There are plenty of people who step outside of their marriage and still never divorce, mostly because they are deadset against divorce for whatever reason.

 

What you should be measuring is your wifes desire to stay married no matter what. That is the greatest indicator of whether or not engaging in this will make your marriage dissolve.

[User1234567]

My wife brought up a good point I failed to include in my post...I had actually brought this up a few times over the past several years during sexual play so it wasn't totally "out of the blue", just didn't think of that being important to the story. Either way, many of you have brought up several points that we need to discuss and a few that we have already worked though. If we do indeed decide to explore this further we both agreed our first step won't be as we had originally thought. Thanks again for the input!

[central]

If you just want to spice up your sex life, then an open marriage is the more difficult way to do that, with plenty of potential pitfalls. A better solution to simply add some sexual variety is swinging. You can do that together, with another couple, in the same room, at the same time. Lots of web sites exist to help you connect with others seeking the same. Not so much for honest, open relationships. Jealousy and other issues could still arise, but there is far less uncertainty and much less potential for drama.

 

 

If you can deal with that successfully, then perhaps would be the time to consider an open marriage.

[CarrieT]

My wife brought up a good point I failed to include in my post...I had actually brought this up a few times over the past several years during sexual play so it wasn't totally "out of the blue", just didn't think of that being important to the story.

What is the "good point" that

a) your wife has brought up,

b) you failed to include in the original post, and

c) has been brought up during sex play?

 

It would really help us to continue this discussion if you were to elucidate the direction your discussion has been going with your wife.

[User1234567]

My point is it didn't just come up, I'd actually brought up the topic in the past.

[DKT3]

The problem as j see it for you guys moving forward, this guy is the catalyst for your wife's interest in an open marriage, that is a huge red flag of a stop sign.

 

Had the decision been made proir to her emotional attachment and/or physical connection then I would say to for it, not every couple views sex the same.

 

However, it appears what your wife's true intentions are, us to openly date this other guy. In the end that will doom your marriage.

[DKT3]

Maybe suggest that this guy is off limits, then gauge her interest.

[oldshirt]

My wife and I used to be very active swingers so I do not have an issue with nonmonogamy in general.

 

However not all situations are created equal.

 

I agree with the others that she has likely already been with this OW and is just trying to get permission retroactively.

 

I also have concerns with her traveling to another country to be with him alone. I could list a million things that can go wrong there.

 

It is also fact that if you are playing alone separately, she will have approx 3 billion men that will drop everything to hook up with her at the drop of hat, where as if you aren't a celebrity, pro athlete, rock star or Calvin Klein underwear model, you will be lucky to actually score at all.

 

My suggestion is to go into this incrimentally and start off going to a swinger club together as a couple and meet some people and just kind of test the waters by dipping your toe into it a little bit at a time.

 

Maybe start with some soft swap (no actual intercourse) with another couple. Then see how things go and see how you both feel about it afterwards.

 

Then if everything is ok maybe full swap with another couple and then maybe try your hands at threesomes etc.

 

I have personally known lots of swingers and people that have tried "open marriage". The ones that basically started off by moreless dating and becoming involved with a specific individual on their own, almost always ends with the marriage going down in flames.

 

Couples that do it together as a couple and have it be a shared experience that they do together as a couple like mixed doubles in tennis, often do fine.

 

What you are describing IMHO will nuke your marriage from orbit in a matter of weeks.

[CarrieT]

Oldshirt is very, very wise.

 

Read his post several times.

[Springsummer]

Maybe start with some soft swap (no actual intercourse) with another couple. Then see how things go and see how you both feel about it afterwards.

 

Then if everything is ok maybe full swap with another couple and then maybe try your hands at threesomes etc.

 

I have personally known lots of swingers and people that have tried "open marriage". The ones that basically started off by moreless dating and becoming involved with a specific individual on their own, almost always ends with the marriage going down in flames.

 

Couples that do it together as a couple and have it be a shared experience that they do together as a couple like mixed doubles in tennis, often do fine.

 

What you are describing IMHO will nuke your marriage from orbit in a matter of weeks.

 

This reminds of Shania Twain...she swap husband with her best friend....I guess they must started off as closet swingers...and ended up swap husband.

[BaileyB]

I have a friend who had similar feelings - she had really only ever been with her husband and they had been together since she was 15 years old. She went on a trip for work and met a guy... They had an affair. She could not deal with the guilt and ended her marriage. She got together with the other guy and let me tell you... The grass was not greener on the other side of the fence. She caused incredible suffering for herself, her husband, and her children. Not to mention his wife and his children. My friend now regrets her decision and wishes that she would have focused on why she was not happy in the marriage before she looked outside the marriage for something "more." In many ways, she sacrificed everything and everyone because she wasn't able to look at her feelings and deal with them...

[oldshirt]

I have a friend who had similar feelings - she had really only ever been with her husband and they had been together since she was 15 years old. She went on a trip for work and met a guy... They had an affair. She could not deal with the guilt and ended her marriage. She got together with the other guy and let me tell you... The grass was not greener on the other side of the fence. She caused incredible suffering for herself, her husband, and her children. Not to mention his wife and his children. My friend now regrets her decision and wishes that she would have focused on why she was not happy in the marriage before she looked outside the marriage for something "more." In many ways, she sacrificed everything and everyone because she wasn't able to look at her feelings and deal with them...

 

What happened to your friend is almost textbook. She may have been somewhat bored and the passion and excitement in the bedroom had died down somewhat over the years.

 

Then she met some dude who pushed a few of the right buttons and then she got that hormone rush of attraction and desire.

 

Then for whatever reason she went for it and got it on with the dude and then she got completely flooded with all of those hot and horny and sexy feel-good hormones and in her rush of desire and attraction for this OM, her subconscious started telling her that her husband was lazy and selfish and didn't treat her right and was a bad father and role model for the kids and that he didn't love her and it was a mistake to marry him and that they had always been incompatible and blah blah blah until she was convinced that the OM was her soulmate and meant for her and that they would have a true ever lasting love.

 

.....until she actually got with him and found out it was all false.

 

This scenario plays out millions of time throughout the world every day. Our reptilian brain and subconscious plays tricks on us. Our upbringing plays into it a lot as well.

 

We are lead to believe that we have this one great love out there and that if we are in love with this person, we will have no desires for others and any desire for someone else must mean that there is something wrong with our marriage and something wrong with our spouse.

 

Then when we do meet someone that trips our trigger and we get that hormone rush, our subconscious tricks us into thinking that we don't really love our spouse and that it was all a mistake.

 

this is our subconscious trying to reconcile the fact that we have such strong feelings for someone else and so it tries to make us think that our marriage is bad and that our spouse is bad and that the last 20 years have all been a mistake and that the AP is really the one for us.

 

It's all a hormonal illusion though. It's not real.

 

It's simply a hormonal and brain chemistry thing.

 

 

Cont.....

[oldshirt]

cont.....

 

 

This is my opinion from my own experiences and my own observation after being in a completely traditional monogamous marriage with children etc for 10 years, then being highly involved in the swinging lifestyle for half a dozen or so years and then now back to a 95% traditional, monogamous marriage again.

 

I think we all have a basic programming that tells men to have sex with as many women as they can and a basic programming that tells women to have sex with the best man that she can PER BREEDING SEASON

 

(and some anthropologists like Helen Fisher et al think that "breeding season" is the time from having sex until that particular offspring is approximately 5-7 years old and is able to eat and dress and go to the bathroom etc on his own. Hench "The-Seven-Year-Itch". It is real)

 

None of us have a basic, instinctual programming that tells us to be mated for life with one and only one partner. All of us have a basic and instinctual urge and yearning to have multiple partners throughout our lifetimes.

 

It culture, religion and society that tells us to take a mate and remain with that mate for life. Mother Nature never did.

 

There for we are all going to have an urge to be with others periodically. Noone is perfectly content and satisfied with just one for life.

 

There for there are a few basic strategies for dealing with that urge -

 

- The one that religion/society asks us to do is suck it up and live with it. This is where we are expected to seek MC and do a variety of things to "spice up" our sex lives with toys or games or lingerie etc etc. but the bottom line is to suck it up and live with the frustration.

 

- the other is to divorce and take a new mate. That may work once or twice but the cost and fallout of multiple divorces and mates is very high.

 

- another is to have clandestine matings on the side without your parnter's knowledge or approval (ie cheating) That too carries an extremely high price tag.

 

-and the other is reach some kind of "agreement" with your partner to have matings with other people, but with the knowledge and consent of the other. Ie open marriage, swinging and polyamory/polygamy/polyandry.

 

Each has their pros and cons and each has their risks and benefits.

 

Cont.....

[BaileyB]

What happened to your friend is almost textbook. She may have been somewhat bored and the passion and excitement in the bedroom had died down somewhat over the years.

 

Then she met some dude who pushed a few of the right buttons and then she got that hormone rush of attraction and desire.

 

Then for whatever reason she went for it and got it on with the dude and then she got completely flooded with all of those hot and horny and sexy feel-good hormones and in her rush of desire and attraction for this OM, her subconscious started telling her that her husband was lazy and selfish and didn't treat her right and was a bad father and role model for the kids and that he didn't love her and it was a mistake to marry him and that they had always been incompatible and blah blah blah until she was convinced that the OM was her soulmate and meant for her and that they would have a true ever lasting love.

 

.....until she actually got with him and found out it was all false.

 

This scenario plays out millions of time throughout the world every day. Our reptilian brain and subconscious plays tricks on us. Our upbringing plays into it a lot as well.

 

We are lead to believe that we have this one great love out there and that if we are in love with this person, we will have no desires for others and any desire for someone else must mean that there is something wrong with our marriage and something wrong with our spouse.

 

Then when we do meet someone that trips our trigger and we get that hormone rush, our subconscious tricks us into thinking that we don't really love our spouse and that it was all a mistake.

 

this is our subconscious trying to reconcile the fact that we have such strong feelings for someone else and so it tries to make us think that our marriage is bad and that our spouse is bad and that the last 20 years have all been a mistake and that the AP is really the one for us.

 

It's all a hormonal illusion though. It's not real.

 

It's simply a hormonal and brain chemistry thing.

 

 

Cont.....

 

Agreed. It is different, but I offer the story as one example of how sometimes, the grass is not always greener... I would be very worried if this woman thinks that going outside the marriage - basically asking permission to have an affair - is going to solve the problems in your marriage.

 

In my friends case, she sees now the the problems were both her own problems, that she should have dealt with personally... And there were problems in the marriage between herself and her husband. But, before she could really look at that, she really needed to look at herself and what she was unhappy/unsatisfied/what she wanted out of her life.

 

She didn't do that. She went outside the marriage and she sacrificed everything... Years later, she is still trying to pick up the pieces. As is her husband, and their children... Be careful OP.

[Gaeta]

I was married 15 years to my ex-husband and he was my first an only one. Women that have been in this dynamic RARELY want to open their marriage as sex has a 1 synonym = sacred vow. If she is ready to break that 25 years sacred vow to you than something is wrong in your marriage in my opinion. If she had been sexually active before meeting you, my opinion would be different.

 

So theoretically she has NEVER had sex with someone she is not in-love with, you sure she is ready for casual sex? and can tackle this without developing feelings for the new sex partner? Again, if she had sex partner before you I'd take her word for it but for your wife it's uncharted territory.

 

Wanting to spend 2 days with a lover is a huge red flag. It means she is not only looking for sex but looking to share intimacy with this man. Intimacy should be yours only. When your wife sleeps in another man's arm in another country I don't call that having an open marriage. I call that an affair.

 

I have never been in an open marriage but if I was in one I would make sure the rules are very clear, he has sex, he gets up, and get back to me. No sleep over, no traveling together, that is for 'couples'.

[Popsicle]

Not sure why people think the line should be drawn at her falling in love with this other dude. I mean, people have emotional affairs and full-blown affairs with others where they fall in love all the time, yet still never leave their marriage. I'm not saying this is right, but I get the sense that the OP probably wants to do the same thing (badly) and get that rush too, it's just that he doesn't want divorce at all and is scared of his wife maybe divorcing him. It doesn't have to be that way though, if his wife feels the same about not divorcing, then they can both pretty much do whatever they want with other people (within their own set boundaries ofc) and not worry about it. They need to gauge each others desire to STAY MARRIED.

[BaileyB]

 

Wanting to spend 2 days with a lover is a huge red flag. It means she is not only looking for sex but looking to share intimacy with this man. Intimacy should be yours only. When your wife sleeps in another man's arm in another country I don't call that having an open marriage. I call that an affair.

 

Absolutely agree. I think she needs to look at the real reasons why she wants this and you both need to take a longer long at what is missing in your marriage/whether you still want to be married.

 

It's one thing to decide to explore sexually, together... It's quite another for her to go off with another man for a few days and have an extramarital affair.

[DKT3]

Not sure why people think the line should be drawn at her falling in love with this other dude. I mean, people have emotional affairs and full-blown affairs with others where they fall in love all the time, yet still never leave their marriage. I'm not saying this is right, but I get the sense that the OP probably wants to do the same thing (badly) and get that rush too, it's just that he doesn't want divorce at all and is scared of his wife maybe divorcing him. It doesn't have to be that way though, if his wife feels the same about not divorcing, then they can both pretty much do whatever they want with other people (within their own set boundaries ofc) and not worry about it. They need to gauge each others desire to STAY MARRIED.

 

I think the issue is his wife's true intentions. I think op is ok with casual sexual encounters, she seems more interested in a deep connection with this one guy.

 

Someone mentioned a very valuable and validate point. You have a woman who has never experienced casual sex, yet all of a sudden she wants to open the marriage, after op had tossed the idea out before. But now, only after meeting this guy she is interested?

 

I think OP is blindly following his idea of excitement in the moment, I'm guessing a huge mistake.

[Marc878]

She's keyed in on one guy and it's a love affair already. Not difficult to spot.

 

Nice for her. You, not so much.

[central]

Not sure why people think the line should be drawn at her falling in love with this other dude. I mean, people have emotional affairs and full-blown affairs with others where they fall in love all the time, yet still never leave their marriage. I'm not saying this is right, but I get the sense that the OP probably wants to do the same thing (badly) and get that rush too, it's just that he doesn't want divorce at all and is scared of his wife maybe divorcing him. It doesn't have to be that way though, if his wife feels the same about not divorcing, then they can both pretty much do whatever they want with other people (within their own set boundaries ofc) and not worry about it. They need to gauge each others desire to STAY MARRIED.

 

I think this is a good analysis. And there is also polyamory, where people can and do love more than one person, and are open and honest about it. That is probably not the case here, though - or if it is, it's a stumbling and bumbling entry into polyamory that will create a lot of problems that may not get resolved in a happy fashion.

[Popsicle]

I think the issue is his wife's true intentions. I think op is ok with casual sexual encounters, she seems more interested in a deep connection with this one guy.

 

Someone mentioned a very valuable and validate point. You have a woman who has never experienced casual sex, yet all of a sudden she wants to open the marriage, after op had tossed the idea out before. But now, only after meeting this guy she is interested?

 

I think OP is blindly following his idea of excitement in the moment, I'm guessing a huge mistake.

 

You can even have a deep connection with someone else and still not divorce....

[DKT3]

I don't think he will hear us, I'm sure his wife is by his side as he reads our replies selling him the moon on how wrong we are...

[Popsicle]

I think this is a good analysis. And there is also polyamory, where people can and do love more than one person, and are open and honest about it. That is probably not the case here, though - or if it is, it's a stumbling and bumbling entry into polyamory that will create a lot of problems that may not get resolved in a happy fashion.

 

You're probably right that it won't work out because they may not have what it takes to do this.

 

I don't think he will hear us, I'm sure his wife is by his side as he reads our replies selling him the moon on how wrong we are...

 

Yes and his desire to do the same is so strong that he will buy it.

[DKT3]

You can even have a deep connection with someone else and still not divorce....

But what part of that is casual?

 

They are looking to make a decision together, his wife is involved with this other guy already, I personally think already sleeping with him, in some ways it stinks of manipulation. Remember the female poster just a short while ago who was neck deep in her affair and as an afterthought, tried to strong-arm her husband into an open marriage....this is a carbon copy, except op is excited about his prospects and walking with his eyes closed.

[Gaeta]

You can even have a deep connection with someone else and still not divorce....

 

and that makes a very miserable marriage.