She ended it, but maybe changing her mind

[Simon Phoenix]

No, don't respond. And it doesn't mean s--t. All it means is that she likes you as a person and misses your friendship. It does not mean that she wants you back as a romantic partner. Just because she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you does not mean she automatically dislikes you. She could be completely fine with being your buddy. It would make the whole situation easier for her.

 

However, you can't be buddies because everything she does you assume is an avenue to reconciliation. Not only should you not respond, but you should block her. This isn't to punish her, but this is to a) get your head straight and start you on the recovery process and to b) give her a true taste of what life is like without you. You haven't given her that because you keep caving and responding. You aren't building attraction by doing that -- all you are doing is allowing her to be comfortable and wean herself off the relationship.

 

No more responding unless she tells you unequivocally that she has reconsidered and wants to be in a romantic relationship with you. And before you ask, you blocking her won't deter her from doing that if that's what she truly wants -- if anything, it'll make her take you seriously and up the ante.

[staggerlee71]

Just as a reminder, the woman here in question is also a parent with children...to the OP, there are two adults ("anxious" and "avoidant") trying to figure this out....and they took a break.

 

My wounds are not yet completely healed but I am well on the way to realizing what happened with my avoidant and know at this time, and I'm almost to never acceptance, That it cant work, so my apologies with getting a little carried away on the heed the warning.

 

I went on a 3 month break. I really went no contact to build attraction and pursuit and not really to try and understand the issue. My longest no contact was like 3 weeks. She never really went away, but that probably had something to do with confusion and fear.

 

When we got back together, we still managed to dance around disussing our expectations. This was a total failure. I now believe I would have gotten to the crux of our problem and would have stayed away if I strapped up and and said what I had to say, call her out so to speak. I was just so caught up in trying to meet her needs and ignoring mine. So we fell back into old pattern and that was the end. She just text me for my birthday the other day and I was cordial but I view it as her checking temp as opposed to really wanting anything close to what I want. She wants me in her life, on her terms. This will destroy self respect so I'm out.

I really just want to encourage a real conversation when the time comes. If there is fall out, you will understand. If she agrees to expectations and trying again, your on your way.

[psiblast]

No, don't respond. And it doesn't mean s--t. All it means is that she likes you as a person and misses your friendship. It does not mean that she wants you back as a romantic partner. Just because she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you does not mean she automatically dislikes you. She could be completely fine with being your buddy. It would make the whole situation easier for her.

 

However, you can't be buddies because everything she does you assume is an avenue to reconciliation. Not only should you not respond, but you should block her. This isn't to punish her, but this is to a) get your head straight and start you on the recovery process and to b) give her a true taste of what life is like without you. You haven't given her that because you keep caving and responding. You aren't building attraction by doing that -- all you are doing is allowing her to be comfortable and wean herself off the relationship.

 

No more responding unless she tells you unequivocally that she has reconsidered and wants to be in a romantic relationship with you. And before you ask, you blocking her won't deter her from doing that if that's what she truly wants -- if anything, it'll make her take you seriously and up the ante.

 

I've made it clear to her on a couple of occasions during the last few weeks (including the break-up day) that we CANNOT remain friends.

 

Also, the almost immediate change of heart after the break-up communicates to me that she wants this relationship to work (see my explanation a few posts up).

 

I've had quite a while to digest this most recent text. I took a step back from it, and played devil's advocate. But my intuition tells me that she genuinely wants my love back in her life. Just like my intuition told me a few weeks ago, that something was wrong with our relationship.

 

I know I may sound over-optimistic, but I feel like I really know her, and now understanding attachment styles, I know her even more and it helped fill in some of the gaps.

 

Also, based on what I've read, people have varying degrees to their attachment styles. It's not simply one size fits all. There are so many other complexities that add shades of various colors to it.

 

This is why I do not see this as a hopeless situation. But I also know that I cannot simply change her. The only thing I can do is to change myself, avoid her triggers, and allow her to slowly open up to me. She was already starting to do some of this recently as we had some deep conversations and I felt she was finally showing her vulnerable side to me. Additionally, she needs to recognize this herself and be willing to make some changes on her end.

[staggerlee71]

Sounds like you have a plan you can live with and have a greater understanding of your relationship dynamic. I'm pulling for you two!!(no pun intended)

[psiblast]

Ohhh.... here's some more important information that could make more sense out of this...

 

She told me that she was always lacking intimacy in her relationships. She remarked that she could count on one hand the # of times she and her ex-husband had sex over the course of a 3-year marriage. Her ex-husband had anger issues, and towards the end, became verbally abusive. She ended it.

 

Over the course of the next 7 years, she dated a small handful of guys, mostly just casually, but never got close to them, and none lasted more than a few months. She said that she never referred to any of these guys as her "boyfriend". She said that I changed all of that. She said that I provide the physical intimacy in her life that she was so lacking. I said the same thing to her. We meet each other's needs completely when it comes to it -- the kissing, touching, the amazing sex.

 

But she never spoke of emotional intimacy. And one thing she said when we broke up is that she's looking for a "deeper connection" with someone.

 

Here is a little about her relationship with her parents...

 

Her relationship with her parents seem great. I've met them on a couple of occasions. They have a very healthy loving relationship, with each other, and with their daughter.

 

So, I wonder if part of her avoidant attachment behavior is rooted from her failed marriage.

[NopeNah]

Ohhh.... here's some more important information that could make more sense out of this...

 

She told me that she was always lacking intimacy in her relationships. She remarked that she could count on one hand the # of times she and her ex-husband had sex over the course of a 3-year marriage. Her ex-husband had anger issues, and towards the end, became verbally abusive. She ended it.

 

Over the course of the next 7 years, she dated a small handful of guys, mostly just casually, but never got close to them, and none lasted more than a few months. She said that she never referred to any of these guys as her "boyfriend". She said that I changed all of that. She said that I provide the physical intimacy in her life that she was so lacking. I said the same thing to her. We meet each other's needs completely when it comes to it -- the kissing, touching, the amazing sex.

 

But she never spoke of emotional intimacy. And one thing she said when we broke up is that she's looking for a "deeper connection" with someone.

 

Here is a little about her relationship with her parents...

 

Her relationship with her parents seem great. I've met them on a couple of occasions. They have a very healthy loving relationship, with each other, and with their daughter.

 

So, I wonder if part of her avoidant attachment behavior is rooted from her failed marriage.

There's soooo many positive/productive things you could be doing with your time instead of trying to "figure out" this woman.

[ThorntonMelon]

I don't like coming off like an ass here, and yet, I am going to do it if only because I wish someone had done it for me...

 

Are you her shrink or her ex boyfriend?

 

The amount of rationalizing, mind-reading, and psycho-analyzing I am seeing here is incredible.

 

I will tell you this, in your world, what this woman says is the opposite. Breaking up with you means "genuinely wants my love". Telling you you're forcing sex on her means "amazing sex life". Needed a friend to remind her how good you were for her (though you were right there to tell her it yourself".

 

Up is down, down is up. Nothing is as it seems.

 

And yet you're willing to change yourself, ignore your needs, and spend your life in self-help books rationalizing her behavior.

 

I beg of you, call a counselor and get professional help. Take 90 days off. See a therapist. Work through some of this stuff. If she's meant to be, she'll be there desiring your amazing love and lovemaking when you're ready.

 

But you're so over the place right now you aren't capable of being a partner to anybody. I really hope your erratic behavior isn't affecting your kids. I told you in my initial post - women like this are diseases that affect every aspect of your life. You have to take the medication and heal yourself. Please, please do.

[elaine567]

But she never spoke of emotional intimacy. And one thing she said when we broke up is that she's looking for a "deeper connection" with someone.

 

This is your answer.

My guess is her "avoidant attachment" style is reserved for you and others she has no "deeper connection" with.

She is looking for a relationship similar to the one her parents have, so she avoids getting really close with you as she knows it is not going to go anywhere, as you are not what she ultimately sees herself ending up with.

Mr Rightnow as opposed to Mr Right.

She also her daughter to consider, so by not getting that involved she protects her too.

[Simon Phoenix]

I've made it clear to her on a couple of occasions during the last few weeks (including the break-up day) that we CANNOT remain friends.

 

Also, the almost immediate change of heart after the break-up communicates to me that she wants this relationship to work (see my explanation a few posts up).

 

I've had quite a while to digest this most recent text. I took a step back from it, and played devil's advocate. But my intuition tells me that she genuinely wants my love back in her life. Just like my intuition told me a few weeks ago, that something was wrong with our relationship.

 

I know I may sound over-optimistic, but I feel like I really know her, and now understanding attachment styles, I know her even more and it helped fill in some of the gaps.

 

Also, based on what I've read, people have varying degrees to their attachment styles. It's not simply one size fits all. There are so many other complexities that add shades of various colors to it.

 

This is why I do not see this as a hopeless situation. But I also know that I cannot simply change her. The only thing I can do is to change myself, avoid her triggers, and allow her to slowly open up to me. She was already starting to do some of this recently as we had some deep conversations and I felt she was finally showing her vulnerable side to me. Additionally, she needs to recognize this herself and be willing to make some changes on her end.

 

You can say that you CANNOT BE FRIENDS until you're blue in the face but it doesn't mean a single thing if you continue to cave and respond to breadcrumbs. You are undermining your message when you do that.

 

Just because you said you can't be friends doesn't mean she believes that. I mean, she broke up with you and you believe you're destined to be together due to your "intuition". Is it really that inconceivable that she could be as unaccepting of your words as you are of hers?

 

The biggest mistake that broken up couples make is that the other person is on the same page as they are. If you were, you wouldn't be broken up, would you? I know I sound like a wet blanket, but you're acting out the dumpee cliche' to a T. I know you think your relationship was a unique snowflake, but you're making every cliche' assumption and statement in the book. It's like you're reading the "dumpee that can't quite let go" script and rewriting it verbatim.

[psiblast]

I don't like coming off like an ass here, and yet, I am going to do it if only because I wish someone had done it for me...

 

Are you her shrink or her ex boyfriend?

 

The amount of rationalizing, mind-reading, and psycho-analyzing I am seeing here is incredible.

 

I will tell you this, in your world, what this woman says is the opposite. Breaking up with you means "genuinely wants my love". Telling you you're forcing sex on her means "amazing sex life". Needed a friend to remind her how good you were for her (though you were right there to tell her it yourself".

 

Up is down, down is up. Nothing is as it seems.

 

And yet you're willing to change yourself, ignore your needs, and spend your life in self-help books rationalizing her behavior.

 

I beg of you, call a counselor and get professional help. Take 90 days off. See a therapist. Work through some of this stuff. If she's meant to be, she'll be there desiring your amazing love and lovemaking when you're ready.

 

But you're so over the place right now you aren't capable of being a partner to anybody. I really hope your erratic behavior isn't affecting your kids. I told you in my initial post - women like this are diseases that affect every aspect of your life. You have to take the medication and heal yourself. Please, please do.

 

I am seeing a therapist. I'm really trying to battle between doing what my heart wants to believe, and doing what is rational.

 

What is the medication? If you could give me a pill to take, I'd take it and never look back.

 

I really do appreciate what you're trying to do. I don't care that you're coming off like an ass. It's just really hard to come to accept the likely truth that this woman's heart will never be all the way there for me.

 

But I see glimpses and clues that tell me that all is not lost. She is such a sweet, thoughtful, and loving person. She has established good friendships. And her communication after the breakup, and just last night, doesn't sound like someone who wants to end things. Things were said during the breakup, and maybe a lot of that came from her deepest darkest fears. She is a very rational person. She knows how good of a man I am, and what I have done for her. She knows I would never hurt her, or leave her. She trusts me.

[sc0316]

OP: It really saddens me to see what you have written in your posts here. I responded to your other thread. Let me just repeat: if this woman were as good as you claimed, she wouldn't be playing with your emotions by giving you bread crumbs. Her signals are as clear as crystal: she thinks you are not good enough for her.

[Simon Phoenix]

But I see glimpses and clues that tell me that all is not lost. She is such a sweet, thoughtful, and loving person.

 

No one is saying she's the anti-Christ or a bad person. But none of that means she wants a long-term romantic relationship.

 

She has established good friendships. And her communication after the breakup, and just last night, doesn't sound like someone who wants to end things.

 

She already ended things romantically. You're acting like your romantic relationship is still an active thing, which is one of your main problems. And there's a way better than average chance that she wants to continue things on a friendship kick. It doesn't matter if you say you can't because a) she doesn't think you have the backbone to stick to that and b) she doesn't think you're serious (just like you don't think she's serious about the breakup).

 

She knows how good of a man I am, and what I have done for her. She knows I would never hurt her, or leave her. She trusts me.

 

Which is why she wants to be your buddy.

 

And you keep on trying to decipher hints and clues, which is a fool's errand. Not only are you ignoring the obvious hint (the breakup), but shouldn't love be something you don't have to guess at and play the role of CSI detective to unearth?

Edited August 28, 2016 by Simon Phoenix

[elaine567]

Watch this -

[psiblast]

You can say that you CANNOT BE FRIENDS until you're blue in the face but it doesn't mean a single thing if you continue to cave and respond to breadcrumbs. You are undermining your message when you do that.

 

Just because you said you can't be friends doesn't mean she believes that. I mean, she broke up with you and you believe you're destined to be together due to your "intuition". Is it really that inconceivable that she could be as unaccepting of your words as you are of hers?

 

The biggest mistake that broken up couples make is that the other person is on the same page as they are. If you were, you wouldn't be broken up, would you? I know I sound like a wet blanket, but you're acting out the dumpee cliche' to a T. I know you think your relationship was a unique snowflake, but you're making every cliche' assumption and statement in the book. It's like you're reading the "dumpee that can't quite let go" script and rewriting it verbatim.

 

Then what would you do if you were me? I don't respond to her breadcrumbs.

 

Her best friend basically negated one of the main reasons she broke up with me, then my gf texts me to say so, then the very next morning, tells me that she made a mistake. 12 hours later, she changes her FB cover photo (sending me a clear message about how she feels), and 5 days later, sends me a text message basically communicating to me that she misses me.

 

How can anyone NOT find hope in that? I do.

[NopeNah]

Then what would you do if you were me? I don't respond to her breadcrumbs.

 

Her best friend basically negated one of the main reasons she broke up with me, then my gf texts me to say so, then the very next morning, tells me that she made a mistake. 12 hours later, she changes her FB cover photo (sending me a clear message about how she feels), and 5 days later, sends me a text message basically communicating to me that she misses me.

 

How can anyone NOT find hope in that? I do.

Have you asked her,outright, what it is she wants from/with you?

 

I ended things with my ex and I really do miss her...However I don't miss "us",if you get what I'm saying. She even texted me the other day,maybe a week or so ago, asking "how are you?". I responded that "I'm doing the best I can"..She followed up a couple days later with "I miss you". I responded that I missed her as well..THEN she hits me with "What do you miss about me?"...I had NOTHING! Not one single thing to say to that question so, I never responded.

[psiblast]

Watch this -

 

This is so good. Thank you.

[psiblast]

Have you asked her,outright, what it is she wants from/with you?

 

I ended things with my ex and I really do miss her...However I don't miss "us",if you get what I'm saying. She even texted me the other day,maybe a week or so ago, asking "how are you?". I responded that "I'm doing the best I can"..She followed up a couple days later with "I miss you". I responded that I missed her as well..THEN she hits me with "What do you miss about me?"...I had NOTHING! Not one single thing to say to that question so, I never responded.

 

That's a good question. I have never asked. A part of me thought perhaps she was simply using me for sex/companionship. But about 3 months ago, she said something to me that I'm just recalling now. I sensed something was wrong with her, and she said "This feels more like a sexual partnership".

 

She was looking for something more meaningful with me, and felt that all we do is have sex.

[Simon Phoenix]

Then what would you do if you were me? I don't respond to her breadcrumbs.

 

Her best friend basically negated one of the main reasons she broke up with me, then my gf texts me to say so, then the very next morning, tells me that she made a mistake. 12 hours later, she changes her FB cover photo (sending me a clear message about how she feels), and 5 days later, sends me a text message basically communicating to me that she misses me.

 

How can anyone NOT find hope in that? I do.

 

Block her. Just ignoring is not enough because look at what you're typing -- you're an overanalyzing mess. And the reason that you're overanalyzing is because you give her access to you. And blocking her won't deter her if she really wants to get back with you romantically -- if anything, it'll make her take you a bit more seriously than she does now.

 

"I miss you" does not mean "I want you back". And you aren't going to recover and evolve and work on whatever you want to work on if you're wasting time trying to decipher text and Facebook messages. All of that stuff is purely noise with no substance to it.

[psiblast]

Block her. Just ignoring is not enough because look at what you're typing -- you're an overanalyzing mess. And the reason that you're overanalyzing is because you give her access to you. And blocking her won't deter her if she really wants to get back with you romantically -- if anything, it'll make her take you a bit more seriously than she does now.

 

"I miss you" does not mean "I want you back". And you aren't going to recover and evolve and work on whatever you want to work on if you're wasting time trying to decipher text and Facebook messages. All of that stuff is purely noise with no substance to it.

 

I hear you. If I block her altogether, she has no access to me, and then what? What if she gets to the point where she desperately wants to reach out to me and can't?

[NopeNah]

What if she gets to the point where she desperately wants to reach out to me and can't?

That's no longer your problem now is it?

[elaine567]

She was looking for something more meaningful with me, and felt that all we do is have sex.

 

I must admit I got that vibe too, from what you have said about her.

It seems to be fairly common in men that have been dumped by their gf and come on here. Their emphasis seems to be on sex, how great her body was, how good the sex was, how when they attempt to reconcile it all ends up in a huge sex session. They get so engrossed in the great sex they forget about the actual relationship. They proudly proclaim, "We had sex", as if that meant it is all OK again.

Of course, all that break up sex, does nothing to repair the relationship and the outcome is often that she remains adamant that nothing has changed and perhaps they can just be friends.

Women are usually looking for more than just sex in a long term relationship, and that need for a "deeper connection" is often ignored by some men, who seem to think that as long as the sex is fine, all is hunky dory.

[staggerlee71]

At this stage of dating, year or two, a women may like the connection she has with you but is not in the head space to put in effort for a deeper connection. This creates her keeping you distant until she can't

 

She probably enjoys your connection but may not be ready to go forward

I look back on a few women I broke up with and now know it was more about me than them. I truly was not open to that kind of effort. They are great women that had it been now, I am open to that kind of effort

 

It hurts but it is about her and what your doing

Don't change you. Hang tough and get through the process

You will and it will be better

[Simon Phoenix]

I hear you. If I block her altogether, she has no access to me, and then what? What if she gets to the point where she desperately wants to reach out to me and can't?

 

Unless she's five years old or has no problem-solving skills she'll find a way. And if she finds a way, that's a hell of a lot more telling then her sending some Facebook or text breadcrumbs, is it not?

[psiblast]

I did not cry this morning, like I usually do.

 

I actually let out some anger -- mostly at myself for falling for this girl, for being blinded mostly by her superficial qualities, without truly understanding the depths of what makes her tick.

 

I don't think this woman is capable of love. I don't think she's ever truly loved a man or gave her all to a man -- mentally and physically. Her relationship history suggests that.

 

Over the past few weeks, and in particular, over these past 5 days, I've been making excuses for her. So many of you guys were the voice of reason. And I rationalized, and excused, and denied.

 

I am sorry for that.

 

Oh how badly I wanted to have a girlfriend in my life and love her the way I never loved my ex-wife. I wanted a second chance at love, and I was sure that this girl would be the one. But maybe I was more in love with the idea of love, and not necessarily this girl. I romanticized the situation and didn't see things at face value. I created a fantasy out of a girl who embodies most of the ideal traits I look for in a partner.

 

At this point, my burning desire is to meet with her to say my peace -- to "call her out", so to speak. Will that change anything? Probably not. But it will make me feel better about it, give me some kind of closure, and I'll be able to walk away proudly.

 

I also thought of proposing a FWB arrangement with her, but quickly realize that I'm emotionally incapable of sustaining such an arrangement without getting hurt.

 

I hope I have the strength to deny any sort of reconciliation attempts. Part of me still wants to return to the fantasy life I once had with her. It will be difficult for sure.

[ThorntonMelon]

At this point, my burning desire is to meet with her to say my peace -- to "call her out", so to speak. Will that change anything? Probably not. But it will make me feel better about it, give me some kind of closure, and I'll be able to walk away proudly.

 

First of all, nothing to be sorry for. It's why we have a board like this. We have ALL been here.

 

Under no circumstances should you do the above.

 

Secondly, I have been thinking about the best way to explain what you're going through, and I'm going to try this - you're an addict right now, desperately seeking a hit, a high...the time you spend agonizing about her is all about putting that dopamine in your system to get the high. I guarantee that if they put your brain waves under xray they'd be fried just like an addict.

 

For your kids sake, just try and remember that. You are going through withdrawal. If you read this in a year you won't recognize the author. It's all OK, we all have gotten through it. But please realize this, because it's very, very serious stuff.