She ended it, but maybe changing her mind

[Blanco]

Stop playing games

[staggerlee71]

In my recent experience, no contact will probably get her surface talking again at some point. No contact aggravates a persons fears and provokes them into wanting contact again. But it doesn't last if you get back together because there are deeper issues. She told you her reasons and they cant change. That is a wealth of information. You need to try and be clear and think through your fears and clearly understand what she is saying. when you talk again, your convo should be based on how you can meet what the other wants. Go gradually but move in that direction. If this scares her and puts pressure on her, you have what you need. She will leave eventually again. If she cant handle the relationship stressors now, sweeping them under the eggshells prolongs the inevitable. I did some sweeping because I was happy she wanted back in. I now wish I got to the crux of it and didn't waste another 5 months thinking we were happy. This is about her. She probably loves you but is having difficulty making the commitment because she is afraid, of many things. some empathy is required here to understand she is not you. lastly, Check out some attachment theory. This will help you understand her communication style as well as yours. adjust accordingly. Read the passion trap. Easy read. Has some good points which will help you understand people are emotional ball of confusion most of the time. except the secure ones!! good luck

[staggerlee71]

One last thought.

When a healthy couple discuss their needs and desires in a relationship, it doesn't cause stress or pressure on the other because they both are in the relationship equally and for each other. If she is experience pressure because you want more intimacy, why is she experiencing this as pressure? and not a lightbulb learning moment about you. Pressure is coming from within her as a negative reaction because your asking her for something she knows she is not able or is afraid to give but is withholding that information. she is defintley confused because logic and emotion aren't lining up for her. Space/break is a great thing but with the expectation to clear your raging emotions as to be able to eventually tackle the problem. But a short break. When two people have a problem, healthy ones tackle it together, not apart.

This has been very cathartic for me!!

[Blanco]

One last thought.

When a healthy couple discuss their needs and desires in a relationship, it doesn't cause stress or pressure on the other because they both are in the relationship equally and for each other. If she is experience pressure because you want more intimacy, why is she experiencing this as pressure? and not a lightbulb learning moment about you. Pressure is coming from within her as a negative reaction because your asking her for something she knows she is not able or is afraid to give but is withholding that information. she is defintley confused because logic and emotion aren't lining up for her. Space/break is a great thing but with the expectation to clear your raging emotions as to be able to eventually tackle the problem. But a short break. When two people have a problem, healthy ones tackle it together, not apart.

This has been very cathartic for me!!

 

 

This guy gets it.

 

Conflict resolution in a relationship shouldn't be about winning or begrudgingly giving the other person what they want. Ideally, it's done in a productive, healthy manner that's conducive to empathy.

 

My one was was your classic hot and cold partner, which I struggled with throughout the relationship. I'm not one for constant verbal affection, but I do want some of it and physical closeness (not necessarily sex) is important to me. This isn't really in her nature, though she does plenty of it to get a guy enticed.

 

I sat down countless times throughout the relationship to discuss this, usually in a way that sidestepped assigning blame; rather framing it in a way where I was simply conveying my needs/desires. It rarely led to anything positive, because I was asking for things she just wasn't naturally capable of.

[psiblast]

Read the passion trap. Easy read. Has some good points which will help you understand people are emotional ball of confusion most of the time. except the secure ones!! good luck

 

I just read the first several pages and it is AMAZING! I wish I read this 3 months ago!

 

This is without a doubt an imbalanced relationship. And it's a strange dynamic, because I am the more aggressive/assertive one in the relationship. I am more of the extrovert. She is more introverted, and more conservative, reserved, and inexperienced. Yet, somehow I became the "one down" and she is the "one up".

 

In the last 4 weeks, I've been more clingy. She was distant from me starting from the day when we had an argument about money again, and we had a long conversation about it. That was a monday.

 

That week, I was an emotional mess. I also decided to match her withdrawl so I kept my texting to a minimum, and by Thursday, I went no contact altogether. Sunday morning, I got a text from her saying we need to talk. She wanted to end things, but wasn't sure if it was the right decision, and she wanted to have a conversation with me about it so we can agree on how to break up with the least amount of pain caused to both parties.

 

What ended up happening that Sunday is that I came over her house, and our physical chemistry got the best of us and we ended up having sex all day long. We also did talk a lot that day, and cleared up some misunderstandings and for the first time, really talked about what we wanted for the future. I left that day feeling like we were on the same page for the most part.

 

But the imbalance didn't change. In fact, it got worse.

 

What I went through that previous week scared that crap out of me that I was going to lose her. So now that I have her back, I felt that I needed to put in extra effort. I tried (too hard) to keep things afloat. I showered her with romance. I pressured her to spend more time with me. The more she pulled back, the more I pursued.

 

This went on for two weeks. The persistent texting, the weekend trip, the pressuring for intimacy/sex when she was tired and stressed. Every little thing I did pushed her away. The last day we spent together was 10 days ago. She bought dinner for me, and I thanked her afterwards. On the day she broke up with me, she told me that when I thanked her for the dinner that evening, it was a turn off.

 

When I asked her what happened (the last two weeks), she said that it accelerated her decision (to break up).

 

This all makes sense now.

 

I gave her the space she needed (by walking away), and she was able to allow herself to let the emotional side of her brain trigger positive memories and thoughts about me. It tilted the balance a little more in my favor, especially when I basically went no contact on her after the breakup.

Edited August 27, 2016 by psiblast

[fromheart]

So last night I continued texting this new girl (we'll call her Carrie) and she seems really smart and we seem really on the same page with regard to what we're looking for. She has no kids, and is totally cool with the fact that I have two.

 

There's just one problem. She's not as attractive as my ex. Face-wise, it's possibly a toss-up. They're very different looking since Carrie is white and my ex is Asian. My ex has an INSANE body, which is a large part of my attraction to her. I fantasize about her body a lot. We used to say to each other how our bodies are so compatible with each other and fit like two puzzle pieces. She is also very physically attracted to me.

 

Carrie, is very average. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get over it. This is only from photos I've seen. I have yet to meet her in person and I'm hoping maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

I know, it sounds like I'm very fixated on looks (and it's shallow), but for me, it all starts there. Without physical attraction, there is nothing. You might as well just be my friend at that point.

 

I hung out with two of my closest friends last night, and they don't know my ex very well. But I've been giving them a lot of detail regarding our relationship and the current situation. They made me realize a little more that I have a lot to offer and shouldn't put her on a pedestal, because she hasn't earned it. This is true, but I just can't stop thinking about the close intimate moments we've shared and how magical they were. I was lacking intimacy in my previous marriage, so I crave it so much. And my ex-girlfriend provided that intimacy that I so desired for many many years. And now it's gone.

 

Carrie and I arranged to talk over the phone this coming Sunday. I'm looking forward to it.

 

 

Its not fair to this new girl, that you're already comparing her to your ex. If I met a woman who was in your position, I wouldn't date her as she's not in a clear headspace to connect. I have dated girls who just came out of relationships, some time ago. Its not good!

 

Take some healing time before going with someone else, for their sake as well as your own.

[staggerlee71]

Glad your enjoying the Passion Trap. It is teaching you about the dynamic that is going on. I hope it helps you feel better that this is not directly related to how great of a person you are. Its about insecurities and how they are manifesting in your relationship. This is why you get mixed messages. And your sending them to her too. Space, no space, pursuit repeat. This is all about insecurity in both and terrible communication about needs as well as listening and adjusting to the others needs.

I believe your poor communication is directly related to attachment theory. Your style of attachment is anxious and she is probably an avoidant. very common. This is a much deeper look at the relationship. See, if she has an avoidant style, she will never meet your intimacy needs at your level so you have to adjust if you want to be with her. At least in the beginning years. This can be tough. As you each learn how to communicate and meet the others needs, the more balanced the relationship comes. Less anxiety, happy. as the relationship becomes unbalance again and again, understanding communication and HOW to meet her needs and vice-versa, you learn to get balance back. This goes on forever or you break up. This is what is known as WORK in the relationship.

[trippi1432]

Its not fair to this new girl, that you're already comparing her to your ex. If I met a woman who was in your position, I wouldn't date her as she's not in a clear headspace to connect. I have dated girls who just came out of relationships, some time ago. Its not good!

 

Take some healing time before going with someone else, for their sake as well as your own.

 

It's good that you are reading and looking at the aspects of what a healthy relationship looks like and how it does take WORK on both sides to attain and keep a relationship healthy.

 

The one drawback here is that you sometimes get the wrong advice for you when people tell you to jump on a dating site and go looking. You are not ready for that, it's nothing more than a coping mechanism and an ego boost. You haven't dealt with your feelings concerning your (perhaps) ex-GF, therefore you will project them onto Carrie eventually. Please do not pursue this and hurt this new woman....and eventually yourself.

 

Take some time to understand more about your relationship style and what you want in a relationship. How you contribute positively and negatively and learn to grow to what a healthy relationship looks like for you.

 

I feel you have handled the situation very well thus far and your ex agreed to a break. A lot of people take a break and go on to have a successful relationship if they do the right steps to make that a healthy relationship.

 

However, I will caution that NC is a two edged sword......You institute NC as a way to move on, not as a way to play games. It can and will backfire if you implement it as a way to get your ex back.....it becomes passive/aggressive and not a healthy way to deal with issues in the relationship.

 

I wish you the best and hope things turn around for you. To me it sounds like you both just needed a break, you both have children, responsibilities and trying to meld two families is stressful, it takes time and patience and a lot of understanding. I'm not with the majority here that this will happen again if you both take the right steps to make this work....but if you play games and introduce a third party to this situation my guess is that it will be over quite quickly.

[psiblast]

Extremely helpful responses. Thanks so much.

 

I have not met Carrie yet. You're right, it's an ego boost. It's also another lead for intimacy. I crave it like a drug. That may be a separate issue that needs to be addressed. I feel like I'm hedging my bet and that gives me a sense of security. It's absolutely not fair to this new girl and I think I will do the right thing and stop things before we meet in real life.

 

Today I have not checked my gf's Facebook yet. This is progress. I also went on a day trip to a local island. Beautiful and peaceful. But it triggered thoughts of wanting to be here with her, and triggered memories of the trip we took just a couple Saturdays ago.

[psiblast]

I believe your poor communication is directly related to attachment theory. Your style of attachment is anxious and she is probably an avoidant. very common. This is a much deeper look at the relationship. See, if she has an avoidant style, she will never meet your intimacy needs at your level so you have to adjust if you want to be with her. At least in the beginning years. This can be tough. As you each learn how to communicate and meet the others needs, the more balanced the relationship comes. Less anxiety, happy. as the relationship becomes unbalance again and again, understanding communication and HOW to meet her needs and vice-versa, you learn to get balance back. This goes on forever or you break up. This is what is known as WORK in the relationship.

 

I just read some articles on attachment styles, and this is SPOT ON. She is avoidant, and I am anxious.

 

So now that I know that, does that change my approach at all during this phase of no contact?

 

Also, If/when we do reconnect, I believe I need to effectively communicate to her that I will pace this relationship at her comfort level. I also need to make it clear to her that I will be patient and understanding of her needs.

 

I am willing to make sacrifices to my intimacy needs in order to align with hers, because I love her and want to be with her and take care of her.

[Blanco]

I just read some articles on attachment styles, and this is SPOT ON. She is avoidant, and I am anxious.

 

So now that I know that, does that change my approach at all during this phase of no contact?

 

Also, If/when we do reconnect, I believe I need to effectively communicate to her that I will pace this relationship at her comfort level. I also need to make it clear to her that I will be patient and understanding of her needs.

 

I am willing to make sacrifices to my intimacy needs in order to align with hers, because I love her and want to be with her and take care of her.

 

Want my blunt opinion? Don't.

 

You will slowly drive yourself insane while having some fairly basic needs (for you) either ignored or barely tended to if you have a relationship with someone like this.

 

Source: Someone who had a three-year relationship with an avoidant.

[staggerlee71]

I just read some articles on attachment styles, and this is SPOT ON. She is avoidant, and I am anxious.

 

So now that I know that, does that change my approach at all during this phase of no contact?

 

Also, If/when we do reconnect, I believe I need to effectively communicate to her that I will pace this relationship at her comfort level. I also need to make it clear to her that I will be patient and understanding of her needs.

 

I am willing to make sacrifices to my intimacy needs in order to align with hers, because I love her and want to be with her and take care of her.

 

Man, no contact?! its truly misunderstood. Your using no contact for the wrong reason, but it will work... The first time. which is now. She is going to call you or text you. I would bet somewhere around 2-3 months. anyway, take this no contact time to really decide how you want to proceed. because that will serve you best. don't worry about the second chance. Prepare for it. If you don't, you will regret. Think about what you need to know from her and what questions to get her to articulate it for you. She REALLY needs to articulate her needs for you, which will be hard because she is an avoidant.

 

If you know what her needs are, you have a better shot at success. You will need to do all the work in the beginning. Avoidants like independence.

 

I agree with Blanco. Avoidant's can break you! proceed at your own risk

[psiblast]

Man, no contact?! its truly misunderstood. Your using no contact for the wrong reason, but it will work... The first time. which is now. She is going to call you or text you. I would bet somewhere around 2-3 months. anyway, take this no contact time to really decide how you want to proceed. because that will serve you best. don't worry about the second chance. Prepare for it. If you don't, you will regret. Think about what you need to know from her and what questions to get her to articulate it for you. She REALLY needs to articulate her needs for you, which will be hard because she is an avoidant.

 

If you know what her needs are, you have a better shot at success. You will need to do all the work in the beginning. Avoidants like independence.

 

I agree with Blanco. Avoidant's can break you! proceed at your own risk

 

I'm using no contact because she said that what we need is a break. I think the wording here is important. I know people will roll their eyes at me here for over-analyzing a text message, but here goes...

 

The exact part of the text was:

 

"You are right. A break is what we need. A break is actually a new concept for me. it was always black & white to me in the past."

 

First, she didn't say "I need a break". She said "we". I think this is telling. This says to me that she thinks this is for the good of US, as a couple. Here's why...

 

When I previously proposed the idea of a break to her, I said that sometimes when couples take a break, the relationship gets stronger. And I cited the case of my best friend (who's now married 15 years after his break with his then gf).

 

I also said to her something like, "This is a good time for a break. You're going away on your trip. I have a lot going on the next couple of weeks."

 

So knowing this, she doesn't want to end it just yet, WANTS this relationship to work, and thinks a break is what is needed.

 

If she didn't, then I think she would have just let the break-up be final. After all, I told her I'll let her go, and I did not contact her. I gave her the freedom she wanted. It is she who (after talking to her best friend), decided that she may have been hasty due to her stressed out mood (her words).

 

I think she will contact me sometime in September, on or after Labor day weekend. This is when she returns from her trip, and her house guests will be on their way back home. I will not let this linger on because I need to move on with my life and I want closure. I hate limbo.

[ThorntonMelon]

Also, If/when we do reconnect, I believe I need to effectively communicate to her that I will pace this relationship at her comfort level. I also need to make it clear to her that I will be patient and understanding of her needs.

 

I am willing to make sacrifices to my intimacy needs in order to align with hers, because I love her and want to be with her and take care of her.

 

This is just terrible.

 

You're presenting yourself as a martyr for someone who dumps you every time you express intimacy needs.

[psiblast]

This is just terrible.

 

You're presenting yourself as a martyr for someone who dumps you every time you express intimacy needs.

 

Only one time. And it was because I added pressure to an already stressful state. She said it herself.

[staggerlee71]

Thorton makes a good point. Sacrificing all your needs is a short term solution.

 

My thought, stay no contact. Center yourself, get on solid ground. One up. Figure what you really want out of a reconciliation. Then, when the time comes, Really find out what she wants. See what matches.

[psiblast]

Thorton makes a good point. Sacrificing all your needs is a short term solution.

 

My thought, stay no contact. Center yourself, get on solid ground. One up. Figure what you really want out of a reconciliation. Then, when the time comes, Really find out what she wants. See what matches.

 

Yup. That is my strategy. If I break NC, then it is because I've reached a point where I no longer care and just want answers/closure. Until then, NC, continue my therapy sessions, and continue to work on me.

[Simon Phoenix]

If I break NC, then it is because I've reached a point where I no longer care and just want answers/closure.

 

You realize you completely contradicted yourself in this sentence, do you not? If you don't care, you won't need or want answers and you will have gained your own closure.

 

And stop with the strategizing. No Contact is not a game to elicit a response from the dumper. It's for you to heal, evolve and move forward. It's up to her to catch up to you and win you back if she chooses -- it's not up to you to do anything but learn and move forward.

 

Too much plotting going on. Just use No Contact to get your crap together. Not for her, but for you.

[Blanco]

Closure does not come from someone else.

 

You're making excuses and justifying what you wanted to do all along. Just know what heartache and frustrations await you with this woman. I am almost two years removed from this sort of relationship and am only now starting to feel like a functional person again.

[staggerlee71]

Just know what heartache and frustrations await you with this woman. I am almost two years removed from this sort of relationship and am only now starting to feel like a functional person again.[/Quote]

 

.............Amen!

Edited August 28, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Added quoted text ~ V

[psiblast]

Guys....I am taking your warnings and cautions seriously. Foe some of you...You've been there before. I respect that and appreciate you trying to help me avoid the same outcome. But each person is different. Each relationship is different.

 

I already suffered the heartbreak. I am doing better every day. I am using NC to help myself heal, but of course in the back of my mind I'm hoping it will serve as a tactic to get her back.

 

I will be approaching any new interactions with caution and a steel wall around my heart.

[Blanco]

Guys....I am taking your warnings and cautions seriously. Foe some of you...You've been there before. I respect that and appreciate you trying to help me avoid the same outcome. But each person is different. Each relationship is different.

 

I already suffered the heartbreak. I am doing better every day. I am using NC to help myself heal, but of course in the back of my mind I'm hoping it will serve as a tactic to get her back.

 

I will be approaching any new interactions with caution and a steel wall around my heart.

 

Sorry, but this is a totally naive way of looking at this. Individuals in a relationship may be different from all the others, but things tend to play out in similar ways where there are a lot of the same dynamics within the relationship.

 

She probably will reach out again, because here's the thing about the avoidant type: They blow hot when they sense they're losing you, but once they know they've got you, they resume blowing cold.

 

Listen, you're a father of two children, which means you cannot be the top priority in your own life. Knowing first-hand what a relationship and breakup with a person like this involves, I know there's almost no way your parenting will not be negatively affected by all of this.

 

Out of curiosity, how long were you married; how long since the separation, and how long since you were officially divorced?

[Simon Phoenix]

But each person is different. Each relationship is different.

 

If I had a dollar for every time someone on this site has uttered this sentiment I'd be using that money to get a Rain Man suite in Las Vegas next weekend. Unfortunately, your situation is not a unique snowflake. The sooner you realize this and take the proper steps to fully move forward, the better you'll be. You seem like you're intent on doing a half-in, half-out, quasi-no contact thing, which kind of defeats the purpose.

[trippi1432]

Just as a reminder, the woman here in question is also a parent with children...to the OP, there are two adults ("anxious" and "avoidant") trying to figure this out....and they took a break.

Edited August 28, 2016 by trippi1432

[psiblast]

Since our conflict began last month, and she began to withdraw, I used to jump at every text message, hoping it's her. Her withdrawal led to my pursuit. The anxious-avoidant dynamic at work.

 

For most of our relationship however, this was not the case. I was purposely avoidant for most of these months simply because I was using "tactics", due to my self-recognition of my needy/clingy nature (and resultant failed dating experiences last year). So quite often, I allowed her to text me first, asking me how my day is, etc. One time, she even noted that I rarely text her.

 

I faked it, until I truly stopped caring. I was so caught up in the other aspects of my life, and I felt secure, knowing that from time to time, she will send me a text saying how she misses me touching her, and then that keeps my anxiety in check.

 

Her actions spoke of someone who loved me, even though her words never said so. I avoided saying it for so long also (not until a few weeks ago).

 

So looking back at the bulk of our relationship (excluding the past month), it was a healthy dynamic. I was inadvertently meeting her needs as an avoidant, simply by employing "dating strategies", without even knowing anything about attachment styles. She would repeatedly remark at how comfortable she was with me.

 

So back to the current situation...

 

It has been 5 days since I sent her that last text -- where rather than acknowledging her apparent "change of heart", I told her that I need time and space to figure things out.

 

Early this morning (around 2:30am), I receive a text from her.

 

It was a photo of her holding up a travel brochure. On the cover of the travel brochure was a person holding up a large sign saying "Wish You Were Here!"

 

It's reminiscent of a youtube video I made for her where I held up large poster boards to express how I felt about her. In that video, I apologized for something I did that upset her. That was during the first week where I felt her withdraw.

 

Needless to say, this gives me extreme hope that our relationship will be given another chance.

 

I'm not sure if I should respond. It feels wrong (and perhaps cruel) to simply ignore her message. Should I stay NC? My gut tells me to let her continue the pursuit -- at least until she gets back from vacation. Maybe then respond with "Hope you had a nice trip and returned safely" (or something like that).