Do you think that the mm is just lying to the OW just to get some sex only?

July 4, 2005

That is all I was trying to say........it is not like that every time. And when he does not care about you, it comes out too. Some people do not want t hear the truth because it pulls them out of the comfort zone of right and wrong.

Again I am not saying it is right. I have to stress that.

July 4, 2005

If a man truly loves a woman, I'm talking TRUE love - he will move heaven and earth to be with her, to have a real life with her, to share every single part of his life and being with her, he'll be proud of her, he'll want to shout it from the rooftops - he'll want to make a home with her, create dreams together with her ... not keep her on the side, tossing a few crumbs her way.

If a man TRULY loves a woman....HE WILL NOT CHEAT...So what now. Are you saying he truly loves his wife but not the ow?

July 4, 2005

It doesn't matter why; what matters is that people lie to their spouses and betray them and other people accompany them in this behaviour and it's all wrong. Tell yourself what you need to believe to try to make it right for yourself; in the end you *know* deep down that it's wrong as wrong can be. And the more upset you are at yourself, the more you try to defend yourself and make up excuses. Good luck with that.

July 4, 2005

If a man TRULY loves a woman....HE WILL NOT CHEAT...So what now. Are you saying he truly loves his wife but not the ow?

Of course a man who cheats on his wife doesn't TRULY love her. (there is no room for infidelity, betrayal, deceit, selfishness, etc with regards to "true love.") That being said, he obviously doesn't TRULY love the OW either because, gee, guess who he's still living with in almost all cases? HIS WIFE. Hell, 98% of the "OW" posts here are long sad laments about how their MM keeps promising to leave his wife but doesn't.

In many cases, the wife doesn't even know her husband is screwing around and betraying her - but come on, the OW obviously knows he's not a man of integrity - yet she foolishly buys his BS and believes him when month after month and sometimes year after year, promises he's going to "leave his wife" for her.

Why would any sane, stable, self-respecting woman want to be with a man who clearly doesn't love his wife, and clearly doesn't love her?

July 4, 2005

If a man truly loves a woman, I'm talking TRUE love - he will move heaven and earth to be with her, to have a real life with her, to share every single part of his life and being with her, he'll be proud of her, he'll want to shout it from the rooftops - he'll want to make a home with her, create dreams together with her ... not keep her on the side, tossing a few crumbs her way.

Does this really happen...are there men like this?

July 4, 2005

Yes. There are. I have been told that you meet them seldomly. Mostly by women.

July 5, 2005

Originally posted by shygurl
Of course a man who cheats on his wife doesn't TRULY love her. (there is no room for infidelity, betrayal, deceit, selfishness, etc with regards to "true love.") That being said, he obviously doesn't TRULY love the OW either because, gee, guess who he's still living with in almost all cases? HIS WIFE. Hell, 98% of the "OW" posts here are long sad laments about how their MM keeps promising to leave his wife but doesn't.

In many cases, the wife doesn't even know her husband is screwing around and betraying her - but come on, the OW obviously knows he's not a man of integrity - yet she foolishly buys his BS and believes him when month after month and sometimes year after year, promises he's going to "leave his wife" for her.

Does TRUE LOVE cheat on their spouse?

True love is not what the ow should be thinking she has with this man. She may think that he just does not love his wife like he use to. She could feel like she came in his life at the wrong time. It could be a number of things the ow is thinking. He is giving her something and she is giving him something. It is a relationship. Unforbidden..but real

If a woman waits around for another man to leave another woman for years then she gets what she gets coming. He might, he might not. She should know that. Secondly, he might not stay with her either so it is alot to explore on that end of it.

Just because a man cheats does not mean he does not love his wife? That is what women dont understand. Some men as we know need a good f**k and get tired of the same person. I know that is horrible and that man is a straight up dog but he still loves that woman.

Cheating is not the worst thing a man can do to a woman believe it or not. It is not. He most likely is not inlove with her anymore. But that does not mean there is no love left. He is selfish, greedy, and he does not want to lose everything but at the same time, he does not want to be without either.....so there starts the affair.

July 5, 2005

He is selfish, greedy, and he does not want to lose everything but at the same time, he does not want to be without either.....so there starts the affair.

Yeah. A real prize, that. Gotta get me one.

July 5, 2005

Originally posted by moimeme
Yeah. A real prize, that. Gotta get me one.

Do what you do.

July 5, 2005

Originally posted by jvjrose

Just because a man cheats does not mean he does not love his wife? That is what women dont understand. Some men as we know need a good f**k and get tired of the same person. I know that is horrible and that man is a straight up dog but he still loves that woman.

Cheating is not the worst thing a man can do to a woman believe it or not. It is not. He most likely is not inlove with her anymore. But that does not mean there is no love left. He is selfish, greedy, and he does not want to lose everything but at the same time, he does not want to be without either.....so there starts the affair.

Maybe that's what's wrong with OW? They have a very distorted perception of what true love is all about.

Of course if a man cheats on his wife he doesn't truly love her - not in the way she deserves to be loved. When you truly love someone, you respect them, you care about their feelings, you put their needs before yours, you consider in advance how your actions will impact them, you don't sneak around behind their back and stick your genitalia into another's genitalia, you hold true to your marriage vows, you don't dishonor them. Is this all foreign to you? Now this all being said, you can't be married and plugging someone else and still truly "love" your spouse, that's a huge contradiction.

How do you know cheating isn't the worst thing a man can do to his wife, have you surveyed all women? Have you surveyed all married women who've been cheated on? Seeing how you've been or remain an "other woman", I guess I'd fully expect you to try and trivialize this all.

July 5, 2005

Then I guess we will rarely see true love in action because MOST men ain't going to do all that moving mountains and all like that ... most of the time, if they want to move the mountain ... it is after you left their butt!

Again, I am not saying it is right but saying it is just sex is simply not what the affair is always about.

Some would say remove the sex and see how long he will stay. I say remove the sex in the marriage and see how long he will stay and if not leave...trust me he wont be sitting at home confessing his TRUE LOVE for her.

July 5, 2005

Originally posted by shygurl
Of course if a man cheats on his wife he doesn't truly love her ....

I'm not so sure about that. I think it's possible that a man could love his wife VERY much....and still cheat on her.

Most of the men that I've observed who cheated had lost hope in their primary relationship. They didn't feel loved by their wives. It wasn't so much that they didn't love the wife....they just didn't believe the wife loved them!

Now, there's bound to be some men out there who cheat and only stay with their wives because of the financial or familial hardships of leaving. But if I had to hazard a guess....I'd say the numbers are small.

There's bound to be some men out there who are just "man-whores" too. They just want sexual gratification, they don't REALLY love anybody but themselves, and they're going to do whatever they can get away with. Again, I'd guess the numbers are small.

I think most of the MM-cheaters would probably fall into the catagory of men without hope in their marriage. More often than not, once EN's are being met in the primary relationship, and the MM is again reassured of his wife's love....he's likely to return to it. That is, once the infatuation with OW has worn off.

I think it's very difficult for men...generally speaking....to separate emotions and sex. They often feature themselves to be in love with the object of their sexual desire. They feel sexual about the objects of their emotional love. They respond to attention and admiration with sex. It's all intertwined.

I think it boils down to most of the unhappy MM, feeling that hope is gone at home. They don't have much to risk, when they consider themselves with nothing much substantial. They're looking to have their needs met.

I'm not looking to blame wive's here, for their men straying. MM-cheaters are GROWN MEN who should be doing a better job of communicating in their marriages. But by and large, they just sometimes seem more likely to throw in the towel....then to get down and do some serious relationship work.

There are certainly situations in which a man can separate love and sex VERY nicely. But for the long term extramarital affair, it could be that they're caught in a quagmire unable to differentiate between the two. If so....this becomes a moot topic.

July 5, 2005

ladyjane,

i think that was a good post, and i agree.

i agree in retrospect looking at the a, that this is what it was, i also think on some level he loved me, but wouldnt allow that to happen.

ultimately of course it makes no difference, the relationship can never be, even if they do leave their wives there will be so much they are going through over it, that the relationship with ow has a slim chance of survival.

i dislike the fact that people are trying to find whats "wrong" with the ow, not because i take it personally but because i think its a strange thing to do.

maybe there is nothing wrong with her except for the fact that she is a woman, perhaps she is experiencing a temporary low point or perhaps the mm just wore her down with his persistence.

people dont like to think it, but the majority of mm dont just stumble into the a with ow, they actively chase, scheme, hound and badger and flatter and charm without relent.

read some of boating babes posts, she hasnt had an a with the mm who is hounding her, my mm behaves similarly though not quite so extreme, but then bb's mm has been trying for a long time.

July 5, 2005

i really enjoyed the last two post. It was more thought provoked than emotionally anger and disconnect from the realities of affairs.

It is hard for all involved to me. Yes the mm has the most gained in the sense he has it all. But everyone is going thru something. The ow is the main one who really has the most to lose and could also suffer the most pain too. It is just funny to me that there are people who really believe it is JUST sex. Just sex is not a affair.

July 5, 2005

Well how can you lose something, if there is not any legal entitlement? There is no legal obligation from the MM to an OW. There are a ton of obligations that hold the MM and the MW together. Their house, their financial obligations. Possibly kids.

OW can use that to their advantage - to keep the affair at a distance. But of course it is hard if the OW desires to become the new MW. Because then the obligations have to be dissolved. With the legal and psychological stress. Suddenly he has, as has OW to wake up for a whole different life then - suddenly love may not be enough for OW and MM to work things out.

If MM gets caught in the affair, chances are that he will lose even more than half (to which he was not entitled, but the mind works otherwise in most cases).

MM is of course in the driving seat of the relationship with OW. He generally controls everything. He has an excuse: his wife. OW are often putting their life on hold for MM. Not wise, as the chances for an working and open relationship are around the 5%.

And MW, who does not know a thing is in the hardest position. She may have her doubts, and desperately try to dispel them. But the longer the affairs go on, the higher the likelihood that it is discovered - and suddenly in all likelihood "OW is just a slut, who was after me for sex, and blackmailed me into this", in his words. That sounds harsh - but it is an effective attempt to save the marriage - correction financial unity. Even if this does not happen, and MM chooses for OW, he will have to go through all legal processes - which gives rise to stress.

Even if MW does not allow for a single option to reconcile, or MM chooses to divorce his wife - you still don't know eachother. The perspective will have completely changed. Add to that the stresses of his divorce, and the financial implication it has, and it is no wonder to realize why relationships like this seldomly work out.

July 5, 2005

i think what jvjrose was possibly saying is that the ow, is usually the loser in this situation, and not that she has the most to lose.

in many ways this is true, just look around at the hard time the ow gets in this forum alone, out in the real world if she dares to speak of her pain, she gets it even worse, if not she suffers in silence. she has to accpet the fact at some point that her investment was for nothing. the mm gets to a point he only cares about saving his a$$, if that means s***ting on the ow he will do it.

i have had to say to my mm to concentrate on his marriage, it broke my heart to do so, but after all there's no future for us and after all, concentrating on his marriage is the best and right thing to do. he still speaks to me, tells me how well its all going etc. i just have to deal. i am thankful that i wasnt part in splitting his marriage, but it still hurts.

i am not whining, before anyone attacks me, just saying.

but d'arthez of course the w and even mm has the most to lose. its just that the ow always ends up losing.

July 5, 2005

its just that the ow always ends up losing.

Which is why the best support possible to offer the OW is to tell her to either get out of the situation or, if she's not yet in an affair, tell her to avoid getting into it like the plague - and to give her all the reasons why, including that it's a smarmy thing to do that'll leave her feeling bad about herself because she knows it's smarmy.

July 5, 2005

Which is why the best support possible to offer the OW is to tell her to either get out of the situation or, if she's not yet in an affair, tell her to avoid getting into it like the plague - and to give her all the reasons why, including that it's a smarmy thing to do that'll leave her feeling bad about herself because she knows it's smarmy.

ohhh, so all this time you've had the ow's interests at heart, how sweet

July 5, 2005

THE OW DOES NOT ALWAY LOSE.....IN MAJORITY OF THE CASES...DEFINATELY YES

BUT NOT ALWAYS

That is why women continue to gamble. They believe..just maybe...she might be the except to that rule...I was the except to the rule. He became my husband. He loves me like he loved no other woman. He tells me that. AND BY THE WAY HE NEVER CHEATED ON MY THAT I KNOW OF WHILE WE WERE MARRIED. (LIKE I SAID, THAT I KNOW OF) I have left him since then about 8 years later. WE had alot of love together but in the end, our marriage failed for other reason. None of which has anything to do with his first wife. She remarriaged too. My husband would like to have me back but he got some personal issues that holds the family back so I had to leave.

July 5, 2005

jvjrose,

what do you think made you the exception? did he have children with wife?

i am only curious about what makes the odd one leave and about statistics you hear.

did he leave wife within the first 6 months of a?

July 5, 2005

I haven't read all the replies to this thread but it brought up a question up that I pondered in the past and recently started again b/c I recently found the love letters and poems in my filing cabinet that I thought I had thrown out. Did my H have an A w/ the OW b/c of sex or were their real feelings for her?

I do believe now that he did have some feelings for the OW from the love letter and poems he wrote her. He told her he loved her, wanted to spend the rest of his life w/ her, wanted to share his life, his dreams, his (our) kids, w/her. He said he could see himself being M to her and if he could he would marry her that day (the time of the A). He said thank you to her for making him realize what happiness was again, blah, blah, blah.

B4 the actual A (but could of been an EA that I didn't realize) he kept talking to me about the OW. I asked him why he talked about her so much and flat out asked him if he wanted to sleep w/ her and he said "If I weren't M I would." My heart sank! He basically admitted he was curious what she was like in bed. So, did my H just want her for the sex at first and then did he fall in love w/ her?

I told my counselor when I was IC about the love letters and poems and he asked me if I ever thought I was in love but actually, I wasn't. That made me really think. I believe there were a few times when I was in HS and college that I thought I was in love, but really wasn't. I have asked my H if he really did love her and he said "Love is blind" so I'm assuming he did love her. But then that brings up the question if he really did love her like his poems and letters stated, why did he come back to me? If he was really happy w/ her, and loved her so much, why did he want to loose what he had to come back to me? Our M wasn't the greatest b4 the A and he wanted a D to find happiness w/ the OW. So he spent all that money and time w/ lawyer fees, lawyer visits, and court dates to get out of the M and start his new life over w/ the OW only to beg me to take him back 3 months after he filed for a D and started his new life w/ the OW?

July 5, 2005

i guess the fantasy goes both ways

July 5, 2005

I used to think like that. I am a MM and in my mind, affairs were only about sex, no emotions at all. That way why should I even worry about it? I had a beautiful wife, we were young, no kids, I loved her, she loved me.

My wife doesn't have 'passion for life', it's not because she has bills to pay, or problems at work or something like that, like everybdoy else has. It's not a criticism, I just think some people are not "the happy" type. We talked about it a million time, she even went to therapy because I insisted and there was nothing wrong with her, it's just the way she is. I knew that and I was fine with that.

Then one day I met another woman. Beautiful but not like my wife... she was chubby, wasn't too much in fashion, very intelectual type, always reading, studying... we became friends, she was very funny all the time, always positive about everything. I started to have much more fun when I was with her. I thought about her all the time. Should I have told my wife about it? Of course. Did I. Of course not. I thought I could handle it.

I started pursuing her. Just friends in the beggining, then I got really involved with her, I was completely in love with her. Did I stop loving my wife? NO. Was I in love with her. NO either. Was I selfish and disrespectful wih BOTH OF THEM? Yes, I was. Maybe it's just an excuse, but my brain was not working, I thought why should I choose if I can have both? My wife, WHO I LOVE and a lover WHO I AM IN LOVE WITH? Call me whatever you want, I'm not saying it's right, I'm telling you WHAT I FELT AT THAT TIME.

I really don't want to justify my actions, specially here in this forum. I just want to say that affairs, specially long-term affairs ARE ABOUT FEELINGS, if it was only sex we could pay a hooker and not have the whole emotional stress that comes with it. For me it's not like having a hot chick to bang on the side.

July 6, 2005

Ladies, imagine that a guy approaches you and tells you: "I am not going to have a serious relationship with you or marry you. We can see each other often and spend some time together, that's it. But you won't be with me on holidays, vacations, you won't meet my kids or be with me at family reunions, BBQ with friends or anything like that and I will never introduce you to my parents. I will also continue to sleep with one more woman. Interested?"

What would you think? "You jerk!" Right?

Well that's what MM offer the OW with a slight difference: they don't tell them that straightforwardly. What their motives might be (probably various) are irrelevant. Whatever they are, they are not because they want to find the love of their life and marry her.

OW are encouraged by the fact that many men have left their wives for the OW. Whether he will or not we cannot predict in theory, but it helps to read the signs in a given case.

Personally the thought of being with a man who lies and cheats to his family for months or years makes me sick in the stomach. I could never love a man who sleeps with another woman at the same time.

July 6, 2005

Originally posted by RecordProducer
Ladies, imagine that a guy approaches you and tells you: "I am not going to have a serious relationship with you or marry you. We can see each other often and spend some time together, that's it. But you won't be with me on holidays, vacations, you won't meet my kids or be with me at family reunions, BBQ with friends or anything like that and I will never introduce you to my parents. I will also continue to sleep with one more woman. Interested?"
What would you think? "You jerk!" Right?
Well that's what MM offer the OW with a slight difference: they don't tell them that straightforwardly.

You couldn't have said it any better !

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