Redhead14 Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 No - you are again missing the cultural point. He discussed marriage, wedding plans etc. He portrayed himself as a cultural person therefore this stance is not unusual at all in this culture. Whilst you think its unusual, its not in this culture. What i am asking for is what these men usually marry. You are missing the point . . . you cannot assign a "usual". It's an individual thing. Men usually marry a woman who is on the same page as they are . . . and that's what you should do as well. And, if there is a "usual" in your culture and this guy was behaving outside of the cultural norm, he's just not a guy that you should date. If you're trying to adjust your dating approach based on what you think men as a gender want or men from a particular culture, you're going to run yourself ragged. And, even if a person is cultural and/or religious, sometimes people don't abide by or agree with all the doctrines or rules, if you will, of them. There are people who are catholics but support abortion. This guy was cultural and apparently from your culture, which also apparently, does not support sex outside of marriage, and yet, he wants to have sex outside of marriage. That's HIS deal. 1
Author so gutted Posted August 12, 2016 Author Posted August 12, 2016 He just sms me to say happy friday.
Redhead14 Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 He just sms me to say happy friday. So what? He's not the guy you should date. Don't respond or call him and tell him you enjoyed the dates you'd had with him but you aren't interested anymore because you aren't on the same page in terms of intimacy and dating.
morrowrd Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 Probably. I know if I was dating someone who said they were not interested in sex until marriage, I wouldn't stay in the relationship. To me, that's an unrealistic way of dating and I'm guessing you will get that kind of treatment as a norm, until you bend a little. Maybe start considering a policy of sex once you are in a committed relationship where you are building some trust and security. Marriage isn't a guarantee of commitment either, especially nowdays. It's a piece of paper.... I'd be more interested in finding out how somebody lives their life as opposed to "will you love me for the rest of your life, will you take me away, will you make me your wife." (Meat Loaf - Paradise by the Dashboard lights)
Author so gutted Posted August 12, 2016 Author Posted August 12, 2016 Are you even from the same culture as him? As Gaeta said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. You are older and have had sex before. So, you can't give even give him "what these men usually marry." It's fine to wait to have sex until you are comfortable, but that doesn't even seem to be what you are doing. Can you please clarify if you are only talking about sex before marriage, or if you told him any type of intimacy--like kissing--is also off limits until marriage? Any type of intimacy ...
ChatroomHero Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 This is spot on. I felt very pressurized when he was talking marriage and looking me in the eye. It seemed real. I felt trapped and could only think of the wonderful things I would be losing out on by marrying him. He is old fashioned at home and "modern" when dating. A hypocrite. I don't think I wanted him anyway and this was probably for the best. I don't like his coldness thats all, it seems a massive uturn. My counsellor says I should be more firm. Reading this it seems like he was putting in effort and your attitude was cold to him before he was cold to you. Him saying you are hard to read and all, I would hazard a guess that you were going out with him, saying you enjoyed dates, acting 'interested', but really sending out cold vibes. That's pretty frustrating. Guys can pick up on that and see it as you are not interested but playing the game for something to do until something better comes along. He turned you off with his talk of marriage and wanting to have sex and you weren't really interested and that's fine but it sounds like you wanted him to be interested in you. "I don't like his coldness thats all, it seems a massive uturn." I find this odd and a bit hypocritical, your ego seems hurt because a guy you weren't really interested in lost interest in you. I think you felt good having him chase you but someone else put it out there and I agree, he felt in the end you weren't worth the effort or the wait and you are bothered by that. 1
Redhead14 Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 Any type of intimacy ... Seriously??? How can one even expect to have a meaningful relationship without some kind of intimacy . . . emotional and physical. And, really, do you want to go down the road of a dating scenario reaching the point of marriage say, after a year or two, only to find that that person has sexual interests/desires that are off putting to you, possibly abusive or unfulfilling for you and you are now stuck with dealing with it forever? Let's get really real here . . . physical intimacy is what makes a real/romantic relationship different from any other relationship a person has. Which is the reason it should be at least reserved for a dating partner with whom you have developed a level of trust and have developed the relationship well enough to see that the potential for a long-term, committed relationship exists. It is also another area where compatibility is a key factor in the success of a relationship. It's also an area where it's necessary sometimes to be able to negotiate and accommodate when there are differences in preferences. If the other person only wants things their way and won't adapt or give things you want, that's a problem so it would certainly be useful to know that ahead of time. I'm not advocating or condoning celibacy before marriage. It's a personal choice that needs to be tempered by insight and forethought in order to make sure that whatever option you choose is made because it's what you truly want and not driven by outside expectations, pressures or some kind of internal negative thought pattern that is causing you to be averse to it or some daydream of finding a white knight who loves you because the universe has brought you two together and that everything will fall into place perfectly. 2
Gaeta Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 Any type of intimacy ... That sounds fundamentalist to me. You should then be searching in that community and not venture outside, as outside you will find mostly moderate people.
clia Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 Any type of intimacy ... I think you are going to have a lot of difficulty finding a man who will agree to no intimacy at all (not even kissing!) before marriage. It seems like an odd strategy. But good luck to you.
GorillaTheater Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 So Gutted, here's my take on the situation, and you tell me if I'm wrong. As best as I can see, you have a pretty long dating history where it appears you may have jumped in the sack too soon, or at least too soon for what's healthy for you. Now you're compensating by swinging in the polar opposite direction with the unrealistic idea that you're not even going to kiss a man before marriage. Men aren't jerks and a**holes just because they don't want to sign up for that; very few men would. I agree that you need to take time off from men to get in a better place mentally, and am pretty sure I've told you that before, but I don't have high hopes that you'll do so. So instead why don't you work with your therapist to find some sort of healthy AND realistic middle ground, maybe reserving sex for what Redhead put so well: "a dating partner with whom you have developed a level of trust and have developed the relationship well enough to see that the potential for a long-term, committed relationship exists." Maybe after 2-3 months, just as a suggestion. 10
longjohn Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 I have met a new, guy. We have been on a few dates all enjoyable. He has paid for each one and we have spent a few hours together each time. Yesterday, he started mentioning the next stage and mentioned a hotel we should go to at some point to check out the rooms.... I was clear (but not horrible) and stated that I am not planning on getting physical with anyone before marriage. He tried to persuade me otherwise (not the full thing, kissing etc). I said that because of past experiences I am aiming for a long term relationship and would prefer not to get intimate. He agreed to a point. We then had dinner and he again insisted on paying. I thanked him by sms after. I got a fairly cold response of "no worries". Today I asked how he was as he had not sms first (after 3 weeks) and he replied 3 hours later saying "busy, you?. Again a cold response. I am annoyed that he has turned out like this. All the compliments etc seem false now and his true colours are showing. He did say previously I was difficult to read. He has contacted me first and said he missed me, enjoyed spending time with me etc yet he does not respect my wishes. I have shown him that I am interested, just not in that way. Is this the end? Sounds like he isn't wanting to buy the cow (so to speak) as long as there's plenty of free milk out there to be had. You might want to try finding the religious type assuming he isn't that type that'll wait for months if not years to get some. Then be satisfied that the wait was worth it.
bachdude Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 It would not be appropriate to say this on date one, too heavy. Its not bitterness at all, its a well thought out decision. It can never be just a kiss etc it leads to more. No kissing? I think even a lot of religious guys will bail out. 3
sc0316 Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 No - you are again missing the cultural point. He discussed marriage, wedding plans etc. He portrayed himself as a cultural person therefore this stance is not unusual at all in this culture. Whilst you think its unusual, its not in this culture. What i am asking for is what these men usually marry. Do men in this culture usually marry a virgin, or do they marry someone who hasn't had any intimacy with them (but it's okay she has had sex with other men)?
elaine567 Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 Any type of intimacy ... If that is the case, then you need to be upfront about that on date one, not lead men on and then spring that on them. They are not being "nasty", for deciding that is NOT what they want. They are not being "nasty" for being disappointed or hurt even. What you are suggesting is not "the norm" for most people, and so that is why you need to be upfront about it from the get go. Sure, men are going to walk away, but at least those that will stay are on the same page. If no intimacy before marriage is what YOU want, no-one can bash you for it, but you need to filter out those who do not want that rather than lead them on to think they have a chance of a relationship with you. 3
Lois_Griffin Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 He said when are we getting married. He talked about the type of wedding his dealbreaker was that he didnt want a huge wedding etc. It was specific to me. He led me to believe he was a decent guy respecting cultural boundaries.On this basis I thought that boundary would be accepted too. He wouldn't be the first mouth-breather to talk futures and weddings and all that crap, hoping to bedazzle a woman into thinking they have a future when it's really just a bunch of lip service in an effort to get laid. Ain't nothing new to see here, folks. 2
ASG Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 He wouldn't be the first mouth-breather to talk futures and weddings and all that crap, hoping to bedazzle a woman into thinking they have a future when it's really just a bunch of lip service in an effort to get laid. Ain't nothing new to see here, folks. Did you read how OP is opposed to ANY and ALL intimacy, kissing included? He doesn't have to have been in it to get laid. Would you stick around??? I know I wouldn't, even if my goal was a LTR. 1
Timshel Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 He wouldn't be the first mouth-breather to talk futures and weddings and all that crap, hoping to bedazzle a woman into thinking they have a future when it's really just a bunch of lip service in an effort to get laid. Ain't nothing new to see here, folks. Ha, girl crush.. Yeah ASG, he's a liar out of the gate...to get laid...he lied....like a horny man. She took him seriously...mistake.
ASG Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 Ha, girl crush.. Yeah ASG, he's a liar out of the gate...to get laid...he lied....like a horny man. She took him seriously...mistake. No. I've talked marriage and stuff on the first dates. The OP one the THIRD date finally disclosed that she wants to wait until marriage to even KISS! I don't know about you, but if a guy ever told me anything of the sort, I'd bail as well,no matter how invested I was. I don't believe in waiting for sex, but waiting to even kiss??? That would have me flying away. He didn't lie at all. He just wanted a normal relationship. Which involves intimacy. Not a celibate one. He probably has friends for that. 1
Redhead14 Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) In reviewing the OP's threads/post history, she has a history of quickly bashing men on first and second dates instead of simply accepting that they weren't the ones for her and having some expectations that are somewhat odd, I'd say. And, that doesn't refer to not wanting intimacy before marriage. That is her choice and ok if that is what she really wants. I'm wondering why she's made that decision. If she's doing that because of religious beliefs, that's one thing, but if she made that choice because she is just "mad" at men and doesn't trust them, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. The reason I'm asking is because the post that causes me the greatest concern for her is the one where she described that she was raped. She did not report it and continued to date very shortly thereafter. She has never dealt with this to the extent it needs to be apparently and will certainly struggle with dating. It's not clear to me whether she was a virgin before her rape, but rape would certainly cause a woman to be averse to sex. Not too long after the rape, it appears she entered into a relationship with a man who was at least separated and was with him for 2 years before she claims that he had been deceiving her the whole time and that he was actually "still married". I think the OP should stop dating for quite some time and spend her time focusing on herself and working on becoming a secure, independent woman who understands herself and attempts to put away the past and some of the hurt she's experienced. I hope she gets some help for all this. Edited August 13, 2016 by Redhead14 5
Gaeta Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 I don't think it's religious, she does date divorced men. If you read the end of her last thread she was wishing misfortune on little kids because their dad had discontinued dating her. OP is disturbed and confused and helps. I know she said she is seeing a therapist, hopefully she is addressing her rape with her. As it stands now I think even after marriage she would refuse sex. Marriage is not a magic wand that will erase your wounds and suddenly she'll be able to have healthy sex life. 1
stillafool Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 No sex before marriage is usually a religious/cultural thing and so men of that religion/culture expect it and are cool with it. Expecting your average Joe to just go OK, when he as never been celibate for any significant length of time since he lost his virginity, is a very big ask and will narrow your field of interested guys quite considerably. ^^^THIS^^^OP why don't you date men who want to wait until marriage before they have sex? This is very important because most men who are not religious are going to have sex before they even think of marriage. You are dating the wrong men.
Gaeta Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 ^^^THIS^^^OP why don't you date men who want to wait until marriage before they have sex? This is very important because most men who are not religious are going to have sex before they even think of marriage. You are dating the wrong men. I heard that OP is getting close to her 40s. Waiting till marriage before sex is for young couples and usually for people who never had sex before. At that age she dates mostly divorced men, so men that had plenty of sex and understand sex compatibility is very important. Not the type of men that would wait after marriage to discover their new wife is frigid. Often those men had unsatisfying sex with their ex so they won't be caught doing that again. What she wants is unrealistic for her age range and for the decency she is living in. Even finding a man willing to wait 3 months for sex will be a challenge. OP does not really want to meet a man. She is out there with her non viable rules kicking as many balls as she can. It's her little revenge on men. 3
JDPT Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 OP, I'm sorry to put it this way, but he probably feels like you're not "worth it". From his perspective, he needs to keep putting in time and money and agree to a legal commitment before he gets something that he wants. The "risk" feels very one-sided unless you're bringing something substantial to the table. Why should he choose you over the various other women out there? I completely agree with this. It's difficult for women to accept/appreciate men's honesty when it's time to move on. Sadly and for the most part, a lot revolves around sex and as men age the realize that chasing after a girl to get something that they can easily get from someone else isn't worth it. However, then comes the one girl that really catches their attention and then at that point a guy is willing to invest a little bit of more time an effort on this new venture.
JDPT Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 i told him when he brought it up. I have been on 3/4 dates in the past when this has not come up at all. I think he has become cold because he cannot admit that he is a an a@@hole like the other guy. He cannot say, yes I pretended to be decent and long term but really I just want sex. And this is where you are wrong and I can sense a tone of being upset. From a guy's perspective, this generation has sadly morphed into a environment were sex is expected, clearly not on the first date but at some point. So when you make your intentions very clear to someone and tell them that there will be no sex before marriage, this gives him the opportunity to move along. He comes across to me as a guy who is willing to spend time with you, willing to take you out on dates, willing to pay for your meal but clearly expects something in return, one hand washes the other type of thing. I can only suggest that next time you are very upfront with your date. This will lay a solid foundation for future dates. Hey for all you know the next guy may not want sex until marriage either 1
Author so gutted Posted August 13, 2016 Author Posted August 13, 2016 And this is where you are wrong and I can sense a tone of being upset. From a guy's perspective, this generation has sadly morphed into a environment were sex is expected, clearly not on the first date but at some point. So when you make your intentions very clear to someone and tell them that there will be no sex before marriage, this gives him the opportunity to move along. He comes across to me as a guy who is willing to spend time with you, willing to take you out on dates, willing to pay for your meal but clearly expects something in return, one hand washes the other type of thing. I can only suggest that next time you are very upfront with your date. This will lay a solid foundation for future dates. Hey for all you know the next guy may not want sex until marriage either Thanks everyone for your comments. He has been in touch, a few times general stuff. Not back to normal but not cold. I did not expect this. I think he has thought about it a bit more. I just remembered that he had also mentioned he was on a few sites previosly aimed at marriage, this moral code is not new to him. He has not disappeared like I thought, he is testing the water.
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