Maybe There Isn't an Answer

[Wave Rider]

So I took someone on a date tonight, a graduate student in psychology that I met at the gym. We went for a walk on the beach, and we had lots of things in common in terms of our worldview and values, and some common activities that we enjoy. We sat on the beach after sunset and I kissed her, and she kissed me back and seemed to like it. I told her that I'd seen her at the gym and thought she was attractive and so I said something to her, and she said, "I'm glad you did." We kissed a few more times during the date. I took her back to her place and when I parked the car, I told her that I'd walk her to the door. She said that she'd walk herself to the door, and then she said that she didn't see anything happening with me and her dating-wise, and she said, "I'll see you at the gym." Then she left.

 

The last woman I took out did this too. I took her out, and at the end of the date she invited me in to her apartment, and we made out for a bit, which she seemed to like. When I asked her on a second date, she said no.

 

What is going on here? At this point it almost seems like there isn't a good answer. Bad kisser maybe? I doubt it, because none of my girlfriends ever complained or gave indications of dissatisfaction. The woman I kissed tonight was probably woman #26 that I've kissed.

 

I almost feel like there just isn't an answer at this point. The rejection stings for sure, especially the "pre-emptive rejection," but at this point I'll accept the answer, whatever it is. But I almost feel like there isn't an answer. Was I being a wuss? No. Did I fail her "tests"? Not likely. Did I put up with her second-class behavior and whining? No. Did I let her push me around? No. Did I fail to be bold and direct? Hell no. Did I fail to show desire and interest in her? No. Poor hygiene, boring conversationalist, uninteresting life? No, no, and no.

 

I really don't know what the answer is at this point. Maybe there isn't an answer.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Wave Rider

[Wave Rider]

The only thing I can think of at this point is that these women rejected me because of their issues, not mine. Maybe these were situations where I was actually not the one who was wrong. Maybe I did have my act together with these women, and they were the ones who messed it up. And perhaps my error was being attracted to women who can't give me what I need.

 

One of you recommended an important book to me, He's Scared, She's Scared. Some people fear intimacy and have a pattern of running away from a relationship as it gets more intimate. Perhaps these women had such issues, and whatever intimacy was was present on our dates set off their alarms, so to speak, and they panicked and ran away. This is the explanation that makes the most sense to me.

[Fruitee]

I think the problem is you kissed them on 1st date and said youre interested on them because of their looks.

[smackie9]

youre interested on them because of their looks.

 

Maybe they think you are shallow......

[smackie9]

Anyways I believe the following.....not everyone is going to see you as the right person for them, or feel chemistry. You can meet someone who looks good on paper, good honest person, good job, good values, attractive.....but don't feel anything towards them. OP I believe you just haven't met your match yet.

[azlightsout]

Bro i'd have them girls blowing up my phone ----- not sure what your problem is --- maybe u care too much --- are u focusing to much on them and not on yourself

[Imajerk17]

The only thing I can think of at this point is that these women rejected me because of their issues, not mine. Maybe these were situations where I was actually not the one who was wrong. Maybe I did have my act together with these women, and they were the ones who messed it up. And perhaps my error was being attracted to women who can't give me what I need.

 

One of you recommended an important book to me, He's Scared, She's Scared. Some people fear intimacy and have a pattern of running away from a relationship as it gets more intimate. Perhaps these women had such issues, and whatever intimacy was was present on our dates set off their alarms, so to speak, and they panicked and ran away. This is the explanation that makes the most sense to me.

 

Well, why does it have to be anyone's issues though? Why does anyone have to be wrong?

 

My first thought was that it just happens, and it happens pretty often. Just because your dates were enjoying themselves going w the moment doesn't mean they were interested beyond one evening, and that this doesn't mean there is anything wrong w either of you. BUT, come to think of it more, you do come across very intense on here. Perhaps in person you come across intense to your dates, and it was too much for them?

[HumanMachine]

It's quite simple - you aren't attractive to these females. You may be boring, unambitious, lifeless, physically unattractive or have a poor personality. Look at improving yourself and have women chase you..

 

One thing for sure though, it isn't them if you can't even get them to go out on a second date, it's you.

[azlightsout]

It's quite simple - you aren't attractive to these females. You may be boring, unambitious, lifeless, physically unattractive or have a poor personality. Look at improving yourself and have women chase you..

 

One thing for sure though, it isn't them if you can't even get them to go out on a second date, it's you.

 

Not only that but he sounds like a 'Know-it-All' .... them women probably couldn't wait to get out of the Car with him and his 'know-it-all' attitude ...

[HumanMachine]

Not only that but he sounds like a 'Know-it-All' .... them women probably couldn't wait to get out of the Car with him and his 'know-it-all' attitude ...

 

I didn't even read the last part.. Yes you're right.

 

Jeez OP come on, open your eyes

[azlightsout]

I didn't even read the last part.. Yes you're right.

 

Jeez OP come on, open your eyes

 

If he were to go on a date and just 'Be quiet' not only would he get another date but he would get 'da cookies' if u know what i mean ...

 

Trust me i have done it before and its works . Just be quiet . Let her drive the date .

[elaine567]

Seems to be a lot of making out and kissing, are you sure they really wanted that and not just put up with it?

Seems odd that they seem to be all for it, then never want to repeat the experience.

 

You are also getting close to their apartments, maybe you are crowding them or giving off the vibe you are all about sex, hence no further dates.

 

She may have invited you in, but sometimes that invite may not be freely given, I have sometimes felt obliged to ask people in just by their demeanour on the door step. They sort of expect it and make it seem rude of you not to ask them in. Are you that person?

[preraph]

Well, why does it have to be anyone's issues though? Why does anyone have to be wrong?

 

My first thought was that it just happens, and it happens pretty often. Just because your dates were enjoying themselves going w the moment doesn't mean they were interested beyond one evening, and that this doesn't mean there is anything wrong w either of you. BUT, come to think of it more, you do come across very intense on here. Perhaps in person you come across intense to your dates, and it was too much for them?

 

I think this is likely what's going on. You do seem pretty intense and I can only imagine it's really evident in person. I think your personality is sending up red flags, probably.

 

I have an idea. Why not make a video of yourself replaying your moves and conversation with the imaginary date and try to really be how you were and don't watch it until you're done and then watch it and see what seems off.

[bachdude]

I hate to break it to you bro but you need to take a hard look at yourself here. You are the common denominator in all these dates.

 

 

You are able to get the first dates, you get them to kiss you, you even get invited inside their place but in the end they are not interested.

 

 

I bet if you asked all of these women why, you would hear very similar reasons.

 

 

I have a feeling all of these women thought you were a decent guy but didn't feel enough chemistry. That's why they kiss you to see if any sparks happen. The kiss confirms nothing is there.

 

 

So one thing you know, your current approach isn't working. So try something else.

 

 

I'd start with not appearing so eager. No kissing on the first date. Keep the dates light and fun. No heavy talks. Get her to laugh. Keep your hands to yourself except to take their arm crossing the street (old fashion but effective), and have an attitude of "if it works out, cool...if not that's ok too".

Edited August 7, 2016 by bachdude

[Art_Critic]

I have a simpler answer to what she did, she has a BF or someone she is a FWB with, she tried you out and she figured she has better already..

 

no biggie... move on...

 

Nothing wrong with kissing a girl on the first date, every single relationship I have ever had started with me kissing them on the first date, including my wife..

 

The comment about their looks being the reason you hit them up was a bit much.. next time mention something about her instead...

"Ever since our eyes met when we were on the threadmills I have wanted to ask you out..."

 

That kind of stuff.. you never basically tell a woman you want to date her because of her body...

[Versacehottie]

So I took someone on a date tonight, a graduate student in psychology that I met at the gym. We went for a walk on the beach, and we had lots of things in common in terms of our worldview and values, and some common activities that we enjoy. We sat on the beach after sunset and I kissed her, and she kissed me back and seemed to like it. I told her that I'd seen her at the gym and thought she was attractive and so I said something to her, and she said, "I'm glad you did." We kissed a few more times during the date. I took her back to her place and when I parked the car, I told her that I'd walk her to the door. She said that she'd walk herself to the door, and then she said that she didn't see anything happening with me and her dating-wise, and she said, "I'll see you at the gym." Then she left.

 

The last woman I took out did this too. I took her out, and at the end of the date she invited me in to her apartment, and we made out for a bit, which she seemed to like. When I asked her on a second date, she said no.

 

What is going on here? At this point it almost seems like there isn't a good answer. Bad kisser maybe? I doubt it, because none of my girlfriends ever complained or gave indications of dissatisfaction. The woman I kissed tonight was probably woman #26 that I've kissed.

 

I almost feel like there just isn't an answer at this point. The rejection stings for sure, especially the "pre-emptive rejection," but at this point I'll accept the answer, whatever it is. But I almost feel like there isn't an answer. Was I being a wuss? No. Did I fail her "tests"? Not likely. Did I put up with her second-class behavior and whining? No. Did I let her push me around? No. Did I fail to be bold and direct? Hell no. Did I fail to show desire and interest in her? No. Poor hygiene, boring conversationalist, uninteresting life? No, no, and no.

 

I really don't know what the answer is at this point. Maybe there isn't an answer.

 

Ok, bad kisser IS a possibility. My friend just went on a 3rd date with a guy who is a bad kisser. He's a great looking guy and has his stuff together, is fun and easygoing--and surprisingly a bad kisser. I have no idea how it's possible since he's great looking, seems to get a lot of girls and should have it figured out by now! Having been out with them together, I would guess from watching him that he is not great at reading cues of all sorts--which is part of the reason the kissing is bad. Maybe the same thing is going on with you. The most popular guy at my high school was the worst kisser I've ever kissed. It also didn't stop him from getting girlfriends bc he was the most popular guy. My friends (2 of his gfs) and I have compared notes post high school and it's unanimous:laugh: Some people will "go there" in spite of bad kissing, ie proceed with a relationship, and some won't (like me), finding it too important of an issue. Like my friend, who won't give her 3rd date guy another chance. I'd venture to guess, if you haven't gotten a compliment that you ARE a good kisser, you might be a bad one. Sorry.

 

As you said, it seems from all the stuff you've listed that you are doing things right. Maybe you are trying too hard in general? Here's the other thing: I think it's important to be your best (like on paper and in effort you make so you are well-rounded package of attractiveness, inside &outside) BUT by time you go on the date just go with the flow and live in the moment. Paying attention to cues, etc, reacting to your date. Assume that since you are there you've met the threshold for being appealing for dating and it's just up to you both to have a good time. In other words, you don't have to keep selling yourself. You're there. Showing her a good time and allowing chemistry is the next step. Also be kind to yourself, sometimes chemistry, in spite of all the things you do right and great things you are, just isn't there. Keep on trying. Good luck

[Wave Rider]

Hmmmm...there is quite a diversity of answers given here, and the advice given by some contradicts the advice given by others. So it's still not clear to me what is happening. This comment given by a few people here puzzles me:

 

...you do come across very intense on here.

 

What exactly do you mean by intense? That's a vague term, and I'm interested to know what you mean.

 

Some say do kiss on the first date, some say don't. Some say do take the lead, some say let her take the lead. Some say that she was never attracted to me, some say that she was interested in only a short-term interaction, some say that she had an FWB somewhere else, and some say that maybe we just weren't a match. Some say that I'm shallow or boring. I don't know which of those is the right answer.

 

I bet if you asked all of these women why, you would hear very similar reasons.

 

No, I wouldn't. If I asked all of them why they didn't want to see me again, they'd all give me different answers, none of which was the real answer. My experience is that women will never give a man a direct and honest answer about why they don't want to see him, unless it's an unusually socially acceptable answer, i.e. he lives on a different continent.

 

If there is something about me that turns women off, then as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, no woman is going to tell me what it is, even if they know the answer. It's just not socially acceptable for women to do that.

 

Most men's dating advice maintains that women reject men because men aren't bold enough, aren't dominant enough, put up with too much of her bullcrap, and fail her tests. So I have been trying to err a little on the side of being more bold and aggressive. If I had erred on the other side, you all would have suggested that I was being too weak and too needy. So either I'm too bold and intense, or I'm too weak and needy. I don't know what the right answer is. Since I kissed her on the first date, some say I moved too fast, but if I hadn't kissed her, some would say I moved too slow. I don't know what the right answer is.

 

And I'm almost getting to the point where I don't care anymore, because maybe there isn't an answer. Maybe I'll just do what I want and say what I want and if she doesn't like it she can go screw herself.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Wave Rider

[xxoo]

You mentioned in past threads that women have become disinterested during conversation. Did that happen on these dates?

[Versacehottie]

But of course you will get a variety of answers because there is no one KEY that fits all women (or vice versa). However, I think you are only taking one part of the equation into consideration: what you are doing or are. A relationship is TWO people so what must be considered is your action, her reaction and her action, your reaction. Without evaluating your stuff in the context of how it works in relation to the other person your are missing a huge part of what makes something work or not. I think there is a chance that you could be good on paper but sterile or some unapproachable or nonrelatable in person. Without the ability to connect with another person, all the great things you may be don't matter.

 

I think you could "just be yourself" as long as you don't act like a jerk (arrogant, uncaring) and find a way to connect. That's kinda what you should be doing.

 

Also whoever said you may be too intense, I agree somewhat. That's kinda what I meant when I said you might try too hard. I'm sure it can be figured out and I'm sure it's not any one answer but it may have a leaning toward a certain thing that is on your part. Good luck

[Versacehottie]

You mentioned in past threads that women have become disinterested during conversation. Did that happen on these dates?

 

See that's kind of what I am leaning toward: a lack of making a connection. If you are only trying to impress and get across who you ARE and what you have to offer, you are missing a precious opportunity to connect with the other person, which effectively will play a huge part in them wanting more dates with you.

[Redhead14]

So I took someone on a date tonight, a graduate student in psychology that I met at the gym. We went for a walk on the beach, and we had lots of things in common in terms of our worldview and values, and some common activities that we enjoy. We sat on the beach after sunset and I kissed her, and she kissed me back and seemed to like it. I told her that I'd seen her at the gym and thought she was attractive and so I said something to her, and she said, "I'm glad you did." We kissed a few more times during the date. I took her back to her place and when I parked the car, I told her that I'd walk her to the door. She said that she'd walk herself to the door, and then she said that she didn't see anything happening with me and her dating-wise, and she said, "I'll see you at the gym." Then she left.

 

The last woman I took out did this too. I took her out, and at the end of the date she invited me in to her apartment, and we made out for a bit, which she seemed to like. When I asked her on a second date, she said no.

 

What is going on here? At this point it almost seems like there isn't a good answer. Bad kisser maybe? I doubt it, because none of my girlfriends ever complained or gave indications of dissatisfaction. The woman I kissed tonight was probably woman #26 that I've kissed.

 

I almost feel like there just isn't an answer at this point. The rejection stings for sure, especially the "pre-emptive rejection," but at this point I'll accept the answer, whatever it is. But I almost feel like there isn't an answer. Was I being a wuss? No. Did I fail her "tests"? Not likely. Did I put up with her second-class behavior and whining? No. Did I let her push me around? No. Did I fail to be bold and direct? Hell no. Did I fail to show desire and interest in her? No. Poor hygiene, boring conversationalist, uninteresting life? No, no, and no.

 

I really don't know what the answer is at this point. Maybe there isn't an answer.

 

The answer is: They just weren't the ones for you. There will be lots more where the "connection" doesn't happen. It is what it is. Not every woman is the one. The "one" will be the "one". It's not about Rejection per se, they can't reject you if they don't know you. Rejection would be more about someone turning away after knowing you for a while. Viewing these "onesie, twosies" as rejections will cause you to shy away from dating and viewing each new dating opportunity in a positive light.

 

If one could just pick out a person to date and then go off into the sunset, there would be no need for dating or looking for a suitable partner. We'd just be cavemen who dragged a mating partner off into a cave and procreate.

 

Are you telling us that you haven't turned away from a woman after a date or two? Did you view that as rejecting them? There just wasn't enough of a connection for you. You probably thought they were nice people at least, nothing wrong with them, just not right for you. Unless, of course, they had their crazy on

 

I've dated lots of men that I enjoyed a nice evening or two with, but just wasn't "feeling it" for. One guy was a great kisser, took me on two fabulous dates that were all about me, heard me say things on the first date that I liked to do and made plans around that. But, it felt forced. I could tell he didn't really like doing what I liked. I went home thinking about him. I liked him. I'd enjoyed myself, but I just couldn't see myself going forward with him. I fantasized about the future with him. I couldn't put my finger on it, but my gut was talking. Something told me it just wasn't right. I'll never know for sure though. I turned down a third date with him. I found out later that he married a woman who was completely different from me. I knew her.

 

My point is, you should just learn to accept "rejection" with a grain of salt and just keep trying. Dating for a relationship is a process, not an event.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Redhead14

[Wave Rider]

You mentioned in past threads that women have become disinterested during conversation. Did that happen on these dates?

 

We had a fantastic conversation on this date, and she asked me a lot of questions. Towards the end of the date she became more quiet. I'm not sure what that was about.

 

I can't think of a damn thing that I did wrong on this date, other than maybe being a little too touchy, or perhaps a verbal gaffe. But I doubt those alone would have warranted a pre-emptive rejection where she told me she didn't want to see me again even though I hadn't asked her to.

 

Is it possible that she fears intimacy, and she actually really liked me and it scared her, so she ran away? I've heard from people with commitment and intimacy conflicts that the people they like the most are the people they have the strongest urge to run away from.

 

Or is it possible that this is another one of those situations where I was attracted to a woman with emotional problems and a fear of intimacy, so she ended up pushing me away even though she liked me, just like the other women with intimacy fears did?

 

Whenever I encounter an attractive, intelligent, accomplished woman who is still single, I have to ask myself, "Why is this person still single?" It it possible that she's still single because she continually rejects perfectly reasonable men who show interest in her, such as myself, because of her own emotional problems?

 

Most people on here seem to want to make this my fault. But what if it isn't my fault? What if my crime here was being attracted to a woman who could never give me what I need?

[katiegrl]

Dude you didn't do anything "wrong" and stop projecting YOUR commitment/intimacy issues on to them.

 

What happened (or didn't happen) is very simple.... there was NO chemistry.

 

------------

 

In the context of relationships, chemistry is a simple "emotion" that two people get when they share a special connection. It is not necessarily sexual. It is the impulse making one think "I need to see this person again" - that feeling of "we click".

 

There are various psychological, physical and emotional symptoms of having good chemistry with another person. It has been described as a "combination of basic psychological arousal combined with a feeling of pleasure".

 

The nervous system gets aroused, causing one to get adrenaline in the form of "rapid heartbeat, shortness of breath, and sensations of excitement that are often similar to sensations associated with danger".

 

One can also uncontrollably smile whenever thinking about the other person.

 

-----------

 

Most women are looking for this^^ and if they're not feeling it.... they move on. It is not based on logic or status, looks, job or even compatibility.

 

Chemistry is an energy between two people and it's INTANGIBLE. Undefinable. In most cases, it's there from from the get go.

 

It can't be forced or created. It is either there or it's not.

 

So stop trying to analyze it to the nth degree... and just move on!

Edited August 9, 2016 by katiegrl

[Wave Rider]

Dude you didn't do anything "wrong" and stop projecting YOUR commitment/intimacy issues on to them.

 

What happened (or didn't happen) is very simple.... there was NO chemistry.

 

------------

 

In the context of relationships, chemistry is a simple "emotion" that two people get when they share a special connection. It is not necessarily sexual. It is the impulse making one think "I need to see this person again" - that feeling of "we click".

 

There are various psychological, physical and emotional symptoms of having good chemistry with another person. It has been described as a "combination of basic psychological arousal combined with a feeling of pleasure".

 

The nervous system gets aroused, causing one to get adrenaline in the form of "rapid heartbeat, shortness of breath, and sensations of excitement that are often similar to sensations associated with danger".

 

One can also uncontrollably smile whenever thinking about the other person.

 

-----------

 

Most women are looking for this^^ and if they're not feeling it.... they move on. It is not based on logic or status, looks, job or even compatibility.

 

Chemistry is an energy between two people and it's INTANGIBLE. Undefinable. In most cases, it's there from from the get go.

 

It can't be forced or created. It is either there or it's not.

 

So stop trying to analyze it to the nth degree... and just move on!

 

See, many people, including those in the book you recommended to me, warn that chemistry is actually a dangerous thing, because we feel chemistry for people who provide us with an opportunity to re-live our favorite dysfunctional relationship patterns. According to He's Scared, She's Scared, the active avoidant feels chemistry for the passive avoidant, and the passive avoidant feels chemistry for the active avoidant, and the ensuing relationship is nearly always a disaster. Counterintuitively, we feel chemistry for people who allow us to re-create painful past experiences.

 

So I have some real skepticism about chemistry. It's true in my life that the relationships that had the most chemistry were by far the most dysfunctional. And the good relationships I had didn't have much of what you'd call chemistry. So I'm leery of chemistry, and if feel a lot of chemistry for a woman I meet, I actually take that as a red flag the pursuing her will probably lead to a dysfunctional relationship.

 

Both from what I've read about relationships, and from personal experience, if we meet someone for whom we feel strong chemistry, it's very likely that person is going to be very, very bad for us.

 

And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what they mean when they describe me as "intense."

 

If we take a step back for a moment and consider that the vast majority of relationships end in breakup or divorce, I'd say that feelings of strong chemistry is actually one of the worst ways to go about picking a partner, because experience shows - as manifested by the relatively low success rate for romantic relationships - that feelings of chemistry at the beginning of a relationship nearly always lead to feelings of hostility and dissatisfaction later on.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Wave Rider

[xxoo]

 

Both from what I've read about relationships, and from personal experience, if we meet someone for whom we feel strong chemistry, it's very likely that person is going to be very, very bad for us.

 

That may be an individual thing, reflecting attachment patterns. When I feel chemistry, it tends to be for positive reason, not bad reason. Thus, I married the person I had the most chemistry with, and it's a good thing. Of course, I didn't marry only on that basis; time is needed to know if there is compatibility on top of chemistry.

 

And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what they mean when they describe me as "intense."

 

Going by your threads here, you seem to hyper-analyze things and get very focused on your personal experience. Of course, that's what people do here, but are you asking her a lot of questions and encouraging her to share in kind?