Author aileD Posted August 22, 2016 Author Posted August 22, 2016 OP, In reading what you wrote, he never expressed "wanting" to do these things. It read like a kid telling his buddies he can't go out and play on Saturday because he had to help his parents with yard work. In your own words, he seems to be doing everything because it's the "right" thing. This should alarm you. His actions do not give closure to the situation for anyone. So you should question what he's really learned. Start by realizing he should be saying, "look, I'm out of here because I want to be now." He's not her dad and it's so creepy that he's treating her like he's her guardian. She's an adult woman; she'll be cool. Safe motels are inexpensive. No, he wouldn't be coming back if he didn't want to. Sorry if I made it sound that way I can't say verbatim everything that was said and I typed out the whole thing then lost it and had to type it out again. This is his choice, he's made that clear and we talked about that a lot. Yes, to be honest....we don't have hat "loving feeling" but we are aware of that and making a conciliatory decision to stay together because we are married and to try to get that back. That's reality. It's not the love story fantasy that she live in with him. It's messy and it's not pretty and it can hurt but it's real. I do not feel motherly toward her. I don't want her to die but I wouldn't be crying if she did (his last mistress has passed). She's a big girl she will figure it out. I just feel like she's young and stupid and she doesn't get it. I hope she falls in love with someone her age and realIzes how this wasn't real love and has tons of babies and moves to PR.
Timshel Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 aileD, I don't post in infidelity or Other person threads because..I do not have a disposition for it. I have read your entire thread(s) and your posts around LS. Your marriage is over aileD and it has been for quite a while. I keep hoping that I will read a post that you have accepted this truth. You will keep as much turmoil in your life that you allow. You are also keeping this Jerry Springer chaos for your children. If easy is what you are waiting for, then prepare to die waiting. I hope that you find the strength to do the right thing...that you do not enjoy any attention for your predicament and get on with your life.
Author aileD Posted August 22, 2016 Author Posted August 22, 2016 Yes I know. I love the attention. It's the reason why I'm doing all this.
Timshel Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 Yes I know. I love the attention. It's the reason why I'm doing all this. Haha....now you are gas lighting me! You are beautiful...time for the tough stuff and no more poor me aileD.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 22, 2016 Posted August 22, 2016 She has an IUD. Thank god. That you know the type of birth control his AP uses is just ... sad, for lack of a better word. Hope he understands some day what this has cost you... Mr. Lucky 3
Author aileD Posted August 23, 2016 Author Posted August 23, 2016 That you know the type of birth control his AP uses is just ... sad, for lack of a better word. Hope he understands some day what this has cost you... Mr. Lucky I only know from hacking stuff. I wanted to be a detective when I was growing up. I'm very good at finding things out. I don't think I ever came here asking for pity....well I did say I was sad a couple times but I was just saying how I feel not looking for anyone to coddle me. I know many of you don't agree with how I'm handling things. And maybe someday, I'll be back here and you'll all have your "I told you so" moment. But I also think this site is very jaded. One whiff of anything and everyone is so quick to tell the person the run away and leave their marriage. I know it's because you've all been through it Already and are drawing from your own situations. And that's ok. But I do believe in marriage and getting through the hard times and fixing things if they can be fixed. If he's willing to try and I'm willing to try I don't think there is reason yet to get divorced. What if we can turn it around? Why would I give up my family and my life and my future and my husband if there's a chance we can recover from this and both come out better people, a better couple and better parents? 2
Timshel Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I only know from hacking stuff. I wanted to be a detective when I was growing up. I'm very good at finding things out. I don't think I ever came here asking for pity....well I did say I was sad a couple times but I was just saying how I feel not looking for anyone to coddle me. I know many of you don't agree with how I'm handling things. And maybe someday, I'll be back here and you'll all have your "I told you so" moment. But I also think this site is very jaded. One whiff of anything and everyone is so quick to tell the person the run away and leave their marriage. I know it's because you've all been through it Already and are drawing from your own situations. And that's ok. But I do believe in marriage and getting through the hard times and fixing things if they can be fixed. If he's willing to try and I'm willing to try I don't think there is reason yet to get divorced. What if we can turn it around? Why would I give up my family and my life and my future and my husband if there's a chance we can recover from this and both come out better people, a better couple and better parents? You are addressing Mr. Lucky and not me....however, I must say that you are wrong that advice is jaded or that any poster wants a 'told you so' moment. Not true. I understand effort to keep a marriage together. You are hurting now and any person who tells you the truth is 'against' you, in your perception. The truth is that your marriage is over and has been for a long time. There will never be a told you so, aileD. Best wishes
MuddyFootprints Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 My husband has a winner mentality, too. I got pretty good at serving up **** sandwiches. Until he shut the kitchen down. 1
oldshirt Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I know many of you don't agree with how I'm handling things. And maybe someday, I'll be back here and you'll all have your "I told you so" moment. But I also think this site is very jaded. One whiff of anything and everyone is so quick to tell the person the run away and leave their marriage. I know it's because you've all been through it Already and are drawing from your own situations. And that's ok. But I do believe in marriage and getting through the hard times and fixing things if they can be fixed. If he's willing to try and I'm willing to try I don't think there is reason yet to get divorced. What if we can turn it around? Why would I give up my family and my life and my future and my husband if there's a chance we can recover from this and both come out better people, a better couple and better parents? There are several reasons the folks here are quick you to urge BS's to cut their losses and walk. In general it takes a huge amount of effort and pain and soul-searching and heavy lifting for years before a reconciliation can be considered "successful" and even then there is a high rate of repeated affairs and a high rate of failure down the road. For a fraction of that time and effort and sorrow, people can exit the relationship and build a good life of their own and move on and develop a new relationship in less time, energy and effort than reconciling would. Additionally, the profile for people who do reconcile successfully follow a pretty consistent format of a short-term, fairly low-intensity affair, have full disclosure and the WS has sincere remorse, realizes what they did was a mistake, commit to life-long NC with AP, offer complete transparency and commit to doing the heavy lifting to repair the damage done. Your situation does not have any of that so no one can in good faith encourage you to stick your neck out to reconcile. When two good, decent, honest, sincere people want to work things out to have a mutually happy and healthy relationship and both people commit to carrying their rightful share of the load to rebuild, some amazing things can happen. However this situation is over the top and it is a continuing, slow motion train crash. This is indicative of a deep underlying character issue and completely warped moral compass. To put it simply he is not a good person and will always stab you in the back first chance he gets. He may say nice things to smooth you over temporarily, but a person is what they do. He leaves his family to live with a 20 year old in a truck - - case closed. Couples can work out their differences when the conflicts are which end of the tube of toothpaste to squeeze and which direction the roll of toilet paper should go. People can also work out time-management issues and how to balance various family gatherings during the holidays and how to divvy up household chores and bill payment schedules and varies child-rearing issues. However when you are dealing with character issues and intentional destructive behavior etc etc open communication and compromise and traditional conflict resolution skills and practices will not succeed. Communicating and compromising with a bad person will not result in a positive outcome. Someone of bad character will play-act and tell you what you want to hear and then they will turn around and do something crappy and destructive again. Bad character cannot be corrected through communication, compromise, conflict resolution, counseling etc etc. Think of a bad person as being radioactive. The best way to deal with radioactive material is to put as much time, distance and shielding between you and it as possible. The best course of action when dealing with bad character is to get as far away from them as possible. 2
MuddyFootprints Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Intentional destructive behaviour. Thanks, Oldshirt. That pretty much sums it up in three words. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I only know from hacking stuff. I wanted to be a detective when I was growing up. I'm very good at finding things out. I don't think I ever came here asking for pity....well I did say I was sad a couple times but I was just saying how I feel not looking for anyone to coddle me. Didn't mean "sad" as in pathetic or pitiful, I meant sad as in sorrowful, tragic. It sucks that someone so obviously committed to marriage in general and your relationship in particular could be treated this way and placed in this kind of situation... Mr. Lucky 1
Mr Blunt Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 By Aile August 4 I just found out my grandmother is dying. She's 92 and isn't eating anymore, it's just a matter of time. It's one thing after another, I really need my husband here for support Originally Posted by Mr Blunt If your husband gives you lots of support and forgets about his selfish concerns then that will be one test that will give you more hope By Aile August 4 Yes so true, I was thinking the same thing. From your many posts reprinted below it seems that your husband’s support for you with your grandmother dying was nonexistent and he wound up whining about his own woes that he created for himself. Quotes of AileD Aug 7 Apparently it's too hard for him to stop seeing her so he didn't. He's probably still in his car. He doesn't like my boundaries because they don't fit with his narcissism. Aug 8 He sent me a message today that he feels like an outcast. That the kids seem to be "about done" with him and he's sad. He sent me some excerpts from articles today. About childhood sex abuse and how it can play out in adult relationships. Aug 10 I haven't been talking to him that much. Aug 13 My husband doesn't think like that. He thinks "another person wants to leave me, everyone leaves me, I'm destined to be alone in this life, no one loves me anyway, I might as well just disappear" Aug 15 Today I'm still upset with him. He didn't text or talk to me at all yesterday. I asked him if he was going to drag this out for two more weeks and to call me because texting wasn't working for me anymore (he tends to not answer the exact question). He never replied Aug 19 That got him starting to talk about this situation. How he can't just leave her out there alone, he cares about her, bla bla. He says it's hard for him, and he knows why it has to be done but the thought of never having her in his life again is very hard for him to handle emotionally. AileD, your husband is as very weak man! Do you really think that you are strong enough to make a decent life for yourself while trying to build up your shattered, confused, and very damaged man? Do you realize that you are a torn down woman and that you hoping to get rescued by a man that is more tore down than you is futile? You need to face the facts and see reality and that reality is that you are not strong enough to save you and your husband. You should save yourself because if you try to save your husband you both will go down, IMO. 4
LifesontheUp Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 aileD Boy has your husband done a number on you How many more times does he have to say he is leaving her and not do it? Actions speak louder than words. Please just don't hold out for this man anymore who is playing you like a fiddle. If he was going to leave her he would have by now. Everything is excuses. Please wake up. The sooner you do the quicker you get to move on with your life and find someone who actually loves and treats you with respect. 2
heartwhole Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 I only know from hacking stuff. I wanted to be a detective when I was growing up. I'm very good at finding things out. You know, I've secretly wondered if it wasn't an accident that you showed up here within a day or two of the OW starting the post. She immediately disappeared once you came. I thought, maybe Ailed had some way of knowing the OW had started posting here and wanted to take that away from her. Because it doesn't totally make sense to me that you would share so candidly when you know she can read it. Just a theory, you don't need to confirm or deny if you don't want to. If he's willing to try and I'm willing to try I don't think there is reason yet to get divorced. What if we can turn it around? Why would I give up my family and my life and my future and my husband if there's a chance we can recover from this and both come out better people, a better couple and better parents? I, at least, understand this mentality. I am working things out with my WH. The big question mark, though, is if your WH is actually willing to try. I believe he said just last week that he didn't know either way. And then there's a huge expanse between "willing to try" and "able to do the work." 1
wmacbride Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 op, some of us who are recommending you take stock of your situation and see if it's really where you want to be are doing so for a very good reason. it's not because our own situations ended in divorce. Some of us reconciled and are still together with our ws. My ws was also facing inner demons,and he had an A. He is in the military and suffering from combat related PTSD at the time. That was nine years ago. His A was short term, but his ow, being a drama queen, spent much of the next few years after that taking her irritation out on me. My h and I reconciled and are still together, and happily at that. We just celebrated our 19th anniversary. I can totally understand why you want to save your marriage, and how easy it is to tie yourself in knots so you can do it. Just as ws are often said to be "in the fog", bs can be there too, only their fog is because they love their spouse, their family, and want to believe the best in them. We make excuses, we believe if only we change things will get better, our ws wants to change their behavior, but something is holding them back, etc., etc., etc. We hide our pain and put on a good face, even though our hearts are broken. The thing is that for your reconciliation to succeed, your ws has to want it too. He has to consciously make the choice to stay, and not just do so by default. he has to recognize that he has issues ( he is a serial ws who has cheated before from what you say) and that it will be a long and hard road ahead. It's not going to be easy. he also has to take ownership of his actions, and not blame you, his ow, his past or anything else. He has to accept responsibility for his choices. The same holds true for you. You have already shown you have the mental toughness it will take, but you also have to be able to stand up for yourself and what will make you happy. He needs to know what behavior you will and will not be willing to accept, and what your boundaries are. This can be especially difficult for someone who is already coping with serious issues of their own. Therapy and counseling is important, but your any your ws receives will need to be in the context of him wanting his relationship with you to reconcile, not just "fixing" himself. If you and your ws are hoping to reconcile, you need to be in the best place you can be mentally. Get therapy for yourself and your children, investigate what separation and divorce would look like if you chose that route. It doesn't mean you will divorce, but the more knowledge you have, the better decisions you will be able to make. You and your ws may be able to come back from this to have a happy M. The most important thing to keep in mind is that for your marriage to be happy, you have to be happy, and that means not putting up with any more of his cr@p. He will do whatever you let him get away with. I know it may sound counterintuative, but after an A, a bs needs to find his or her own voice and speak up about their pain and what they need to heal and feel good in the M again. Otherwise, they will just be spinning their wheels, and a few years later, they may well find themselves asking why they even bothered. 1
Author aileD Posted August 23, 2016 Author Posted August 23, 2016 You know, I've secretly wondered if it wasn't an accident that you showed up here within a day or two of the OW starting the post. She immediately disappeared once you came. I thought, maybe Ailed had some way of knowing the OW had started posting here and wanted to take that away from her. Because it doesn't totally make sense to me that you would share so candidly when you know she can read it. Just a theory, you don't need to confirm or deny if you don't want to. I, at least, understand this mentality. I am working things out with my WH. The big question mark, though, is if your WH is actually willing to try. I believe he said just last week that he didn't know either way. And then there's a huge expanse between "willing to try" and "able to do the work." No I didn't hack her....I honestly didn't know she posted here. My theory on how that happened is that WS and I have been sending articles and websites back and forth to each other during this whole thing. I found this forum that way. I sent him a link to a certain thread here for something that was relevant to us at the time. He's said in the past he sometimes will send the things I send him to her. I'm assuming that's how she found this place. I wouldn't want to take that away from her because it seemed by that thread that ya'll gave her some great advice and I assume that's why she never came back. I agree WS is weak and I agree I am weak too. The poster above who said I'm not strong enough to save us both---I heard that. That resonates with me and is a really good analysis. It's hard for me to admit that . He was there for me with my grandmother..she seems to be recovering and it's not that much of an immediate worry right now anymore. wmacbride- I understand your post and thank you. We have been in IC and discernment then MC this whole time up until July when insurance was lost. He has been working with archdiocese to get them to pay for counseling for me and the kids and MC (they pay for his as part of settlement). That's been in the works and just got approved and now we have a list of counselers we can call. So this will be happening very soon. I know that he has to choose this on his own which is why I've stepped back as suggested by people here. I know it hasn't been to the extent of that was recommended but I'm me...and I did what I could handle. Even the just stepping back a little seemed to help. I know that he hasn't left her and that's a problem. Like actions speak louder than words. And yes he's weak. I am not saying this as an excuse for his weakness I am just saying this to tell you what happened yesterday. He had told her the day before that he was going to come home to work on us...I told you all that in a previous post. She had asked him if she could just talk to him after work...I think I told you I wasn't expecting anything or getting my hopes up. I knew he wouldn't come home last night. He texted me he wasn't coming and would talk to me in the morning. He called this morning and told me that he met her after work, she was talking to him then really just admitted she didnt have anything specific to say she just didn't know what to do since he was saying he would be coming home and she wanted to see him and try to convince him. I'm not no overlooking the fact he could have just put his foot down and walked away then. That's what he should have done. He said that she asked him again today if she could just see him one more time after work. He said she is just going to keep doing this and if he gives in, then it's harder for him to be strong and walk away from her. And it's hard not to give in because he feels bad hurting her. So he asked me to come to his work today. He said we should put up a united front. He's going to put all her stuff in a box and when she comes to see him after work we are both going to be there and give her the box together and he's going to reiterate his decision to come home and ask her not to contact again. He thinks that will help her realize he's serious and also the stuff we have read said its good to involve your spouse and put on a United front. He said she is hard to break free of and he really doesn't want to go the route of making her hate him...but might have to if he can't break free We discussed changing his phone number and how to deal if she shows up at his work (she does this all the time. Parks by his truck...her mother works in the same building)... So I don't know. He does seem willing....but is weak. I don't mind being there, I like the idea of being united together against her because I think she thinks I don't really matter. Ok. Go. Analyze now. I do think about everything that is said. Thanks.
Lobe Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Ok. Go. Analyze now. I do think about everything that is said. Thanks. Go. Analyze now. You've at least got a sense of humor about it all. lol I hope that showing a united front helps, but my guess is that he will tell her you made him do it, to lessen the sting, if he feels "weak" again. Will you show up every day after work to block her? 1
Author aileD Posted August 23, 2016 Author Posted August 23, 2016 Good point but why would she think that when he's been with her for a mint and a half and could just stay with her? Why would she think now that I'd just show up and "make"him do this?
wmacbride Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Good point but why would she think that when he's been with her for a mint and a half and could just stay with her? Why would she think now that I'd just show up and "make"him do this? She would think that because it's easy to blame you. Just take a look at the many threads written by ow who see the bs as somehow controlling their mm and forcing him to stay, br it through guilt, anger and some other reason. If one reads her posts, her view of you isn't exactly complementary. She seems to feel that you are somehow standing in the way of her life with him. he really does need to stop seeing her. If he has things to give her, he can marriage to drop them off at he mothers, and she works in the same building as he does. If she can use "my mother works here" as an excuse to show up at his workplace, then she can certainly pick up her items there too without seeing him. btw, am I right that your counseling could be through he archdiocese (sp.?) which would be catholic? One of the counselors we saw was my husband's squadron's padre. My spouse was deployed at the time, so I got counseling form him him on my own, usually over the phone. He gave some excellent advice and when he described our situation, I learned some new swear words in french... Not bad for an avowed agnostic like me 3
Lobe Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 Good point but why would she think that when he's been with her for a mint and a half and could just stay with her? Why would she think now that I'd just show up and "make"him do this? Yeah spend a few minutes reading up on how the BS's appearance on the scene makes the AP feel. Basically, whether they are delusional all on their own, have the help of the WS warning them beforehand, or get an apology after the fact, the AP comes to the conclusion that the only reason the WS is bringing the BS in is because they were forced to. Ditto for the No Contact letter, which most of the APs I've chatted with over in the OW/OM board think is a big joke, something that the BS forces the WS to do. Some WSs even volunteer to do the NC letter, after agreeing with the AP that the letter means nothing and it's just to throw the BS off the trail so they can take the affair underground. You have a history of engaging with this girl and based on what you've disclosed (and what she wrote) she thinks you are a crazy controlling b*tch - you standing there beside the man she's been giving blowjobs to in her car handing her a box of her personal items isn't going to amount to a hill of beans in her eyes. Neither she nor your husband have any respect for you or your "authority" or "position" in this triangle as you continue to enable your husband to live on the fence. Tread carefully, aileD - I don't think this is as pat as you're hoping. Please watch out for yourself. 3
OneLov Posted August 23, 2016 Posted August 23, 2016 As for importance, after first impressions comes last impressions. It's critical for your success as a reconciling couple to ensure the door is completely closed. How an affair ends will influence the individual's healing. If you close the door effectively, everyone's healing will be easier and likely faster. This will substantially increase your chances of success in reconciliation. How to Close the Door After an Affair | World of Psychology The issue here is your husband is acting more like Michael. Bringing you along will only serve to communicate that he is doing this because he is obligated to and not because he has made an independent decision. Why can't he mail it to her? Why does there have to be this last send off? Why is he doing this? No means no. All he has to say is I'm done, respect this. He is giving everyone mixed signals. He needs to reach into that new tool belt of his and start going to work. 2
Author aileD Posted August 23, 2016 Author Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) As for importance, after first impressions comes last impressions. It's critical for your success as a reconciling couple to ensure the door is completely closed. How an affair ends will influence the individual's healing. If you close the door effectively, everyone's healing will be easier and likely faster. This will substantially increase your chances of success in reconciliation. How to Close the Door After an Affair | World of Psychology The issue here is your husband is acting more like Michael. Bringing you along will only serve to communicate that he is doing this because he is obligated to and not because he has made an independent decision. Why can't he mail it to her? Why does there have to be this last send off? Why is he doing this? No means no. All he has to say is I'm done, respect this. He is giving everyone mixed signals. He needs to reach into that new tool belt of his and start going to work. Thank you, I really appreciate this. I am familiar with this article. He has written many of the wrong type of emails. He has been there and done that. Emails don't work with her, she just hounds him to see him to discuss the email. One time he wrote a good email--using the template in that article---and he recorded himself reading it and sent it to her (like a voice memo) so she couldn't claim it was me or whatever. After that one she called ME 400x begging to just talk to him one more time. She showed up at my house. With my kids (they didn't see her, they have no idea). I realize that it doesn't matter what method he takes, it all depends on him just not responding to her, not agreeing to meet when she threatens to come into his work or our house. I KNOW it is all him...his weakness. She knows that if she can just get him to see her then he likely won't be able to leave her and that's what happens. He is worried about tonight because she wouldn't leave him alone all day and showed up at his work during lunch. Took the day off to sit in the parking lot of his work. He needs to be firm. I know. He knows. We talked today about that. That all this doesn't matter if he's just going to answer her calls. He says she calls his work ph# from random #s you can get in an app so you can't tell it's her on caller id. I said you have to be strong enough to hang Up on her, after you say goodbye and make it clear. I just told him we can keep doing this over and over til we get divorced which will be sooner than later or if he really means what he says about wanting to work on things, then the first step is putting the feelings of the person you're trying to reconcile with and have a life and good relationship with over the feelings of person you are dumping. And if he can't do that then we can't even reconcile. Edited August 23, 2016 by aileD 1
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