longjohn Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) So I met someone new, very nice, sweet, intelligent, professional lady and we appear to click on many levels. Actually she ticks all the boxes as far as what I want from a partner apart from one. Here's my issue she has the dreaded (from my perspective) male "friend" said friend just happens to be her supervisor at work. I've talked to her about two weeks ago about well the obvious, he's your boss he can't be your friend outside the office, it's not professional to go out with him even as a friend after hours at work. Not to mention if she's going to a movie or dinner with him after work that's a date which she still denies is a date. She did say she'd stop that if it made me uncomfortable. I find it hard to believe she's that naive? Anyway moving on, she tells me he asked her to go on holiday with her for two weeks and from the way she's talking she was going to say yes only she didn't want to be on his motorcycle.. those were her words. I'm thinking WTF! I had to bite my tongue when she said that. She's not seeing the obvious line between work and personal life and nor is he. This is assuming they aren't each other's bit on the side. He shows up at her house apparently as well. I've asked her again if she's seeing him and she says no they are just friends and said I shouldn't be jealous. I said to her as a man it's a 9 out of 10 chance if I'm hanging around like that and asking you out and away I'm interested. Again she says no just a friend. The part that stings a wee bit here is I asked if she'd come away with me later in the year for a week and she refused, flat out. I asked why and she said her mother isn't well and didn't want to leave her alone yet she was (still might) go away with her boss for two weeks! However she did want to do a long weekend and told me she was going to call in sick vs use holiday time because guess who'd have to approve that request. I think the writing is on the wall here if she goes away with her boss I'm pulling the plug either she's with him and flat out lying or she's oblivious to the fact he wants more than friendship. Ladies have any of you had this experience and just as a gut check I'm not over reacting to this am I? In fact I'm very close to breaking this off as is as I feel it's messy, unprofessional and I'm the potential third wheel between a guy with blue balls and his crush. Who knows how he might react to her at work if he finds out she's with someone that's if.. she ever tells him. Edited August 3, 2016 by longjohn 1
smackie9 Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Dude the writing was on the wall at the beginning..........you are so being played a fool. 1
GorillaTheater Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Not a lady, or even a guy who looks good in a dress, but the obvious response to this kind of nonsense is Hell To the No. I wouldn't be too keen on my gf/wife dating other men, let alone vacationing for two weeks with them. The fact that she won't vacation with you is just an additional but unnecessary stick in your eye. She may tick most of your boxes, but there seems to be at least one pretty significant box that she's left unchecked, like empathy and perspective. 4
Author longjohn Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 Dude the writing was on the wall at the beginning..........you are so being played a fool. Harsh but honest, I like it. To be fair she didn't say yes and hasn't. That's kind of what I'm waiting for so I can say I'm out of here. The fact she's seen and most likley been seeing her boss like that just really isn't sitting well with me. No amount of "we're just friends" am I willing to believe. I've been here and given the benefit of the doubt in the past and got a good swift kick in the nuts for my efforts. 1
jen1447 Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 This is an area where some women like to perpetuate a delusion - we like the idea of non-threatening male friends who are trustworthy (which is why she wants to go on the long trip w him) but we tend to blind ourselves to the likely reality of their hidden romantic aspirations. (There are rare exceptions where opposite sex friends are really just friends but this guy's prob essentially an oribiter who's got a particularly low orbit.) So chances are in this case on some level she knows what's really up w him but she chooses not to acknowledge it and has no reciprocation for him herself and really only likes him in a friend way and bc she has the keys the situation persists as is. Bottom line for you is she may indeed believe all this stuff she's telling you. If that's a dealbreaker fine, but just bear in mind we're all different breeds of kitten and one way of thinking may not be understandable to another while being no less legit to the owner. 4
Author longjohn Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 This is an area where some women like to perpetuate a delusion - we like the idea of non-threatening male friends who are trustworthy (which is why she wants to go on the long trip w him) but we tend to blind ourselves to the likely reality of their hidden romantic aspirations. (There are rare exceptions where opposite sex friends are really just friends but this guy's prob essentially an oribiter who's got a particularly low orbit.) So chances are in this case on some level she knows what's really up w him but she chooses not to acknowledge it and has no reciprocation for him herself and really only likes him in a friend way and bc she has the keys the situation persists as is. Bottom line for you is she may indeed believe all this stuff she's telling you. If that's a dealbreaker fine, but just bear in mind we're all different breeds of kitten and one way of thinking may not be understandable to another while being no less legit to the owner. I agree however my past experiences with ladies and male "friends" has always been the guy wants to get with her which is why he hangs around. In a few instances that proved to be true. I lost one gf many years ago to her guy "friend". While she maybe happy being friends with him I'm not at all going to accept her going on holiday with him and that of course is a deal breaker. I'm sure your right she's keeping him boxed into the friend zone. She has mentioned she isn't attracted to him, he's older than her and overweight but she says "he's a good guy and just got divorced" while I'm thinking.. great he also has the hots for you and your ignoring it. I've seen that happen before in the past too with the lady being shocked he'd make a move on her. I don't know if I want to take a risk on this lady as much as I like her. I fear she's going to keep seeing that guy and if I press her on it she'll just hide it. No matter what way I figure it in my head it all ends up being over in the end. 1
jen1447 Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Just fwiw, guys in the friendzone almost never get laid. They're in the FZ for a reason, not the least part of which is we're not sexually attracted to them. Orbiters have a better chance but this guy actually sounds way more 'in' than an orbiter - I bet he washes her car for her on Saturdays while she talks to other guys. (That essentially means he's no threat to you btw, unless you're jealous of him having "deep, meaningful" conversations w her about her feelings for other guys when you could be watching GoT instead. ) 1
Ami1uwant Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 My two cents.... I d9nt have an issue with men and women being friends Their is no issue if boss is friends with a person under them. It goes back to how they becamefriends. It's possible you become friends at work as equal coworkers then one advances in their career eventually becoming your boss. I don't have an issue with two traveling together for work related travel. Them going on vacation together would be an issue. Some people can basically have a friendship that is like a brother/sister relationship. 1
BaileyB Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 She doesn't sound like a particularly bright woman to me... And this would be an unacceptable situation for anyone that I am dating. 1
RecentChange Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Yeah - no, I would not be cool with this, and she seems awfully niave. I have male friends, for many years I had a male "best friend". We didn't go to the movies together, or dinners, or two week long vacations! That's "datey stuff" We did go on road trips and camping trips - with other friends, never just the two of us. We would show up at each others houses, but we lived close to each other, and had known each other since we were children - plus he wasn't my boss. 2
Shanex Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Being friendzoned is the lamest thing that can happen to a guy. These guys are filler, harsh but true. I was in a semi relationship (platonic) with a woman for a couple years and left her behind when I eventually met a woman. Both women being not too happy about the situation. Not entirely sure it's because the woman is not attracted or rather want the 'benefits' of having a 'friend' pay for things and do good deeds constantly whilst never ever hookup with him. It's hard for a celibate guy and even more so aging to have genuine friends from the opposite sex. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just rare. 1
salparadise Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 I don't know if I want to take a risk on this lady as much as I like her. I fear she's going to keep seeing that guy and if I press her on it she'll just hide it. No matter what way I figure it in my head it all ends up being over in the end. That really is the bottom line, isn't it? We have two givens... first, she has this "friend" who seems to be a lot more than a friend regardless of the details. She sees it as perfectly innocent, normal and expects you to feel the same. Second, you don't feel the same and probably never will regardless of how convincing she is about not banging him. There is an inherent conflict in perspective and it's a major one. The other thing you have to realize is that when a woman has such a relationship with another man, it is at the expense of your relationship with her... time and energy not devoted to you, the intimacy she's spreading around instead of focusing on you and so on. It's always going to be grinding on your nerves. Resentment will follow. It's a triangle. It doesn't matter that she's not sexing him. She has two boyfriends. One for sex and the other for friendship and intimacy. Your only option here is the choice to be the third corner of the triangle, or to say no thanks, I prefer an exclusive relationship. 1
Satu Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 He is a FWA. A friend with aspirations. But you can't tell him to go away without being told you're jealous, and she doesn't want him to go, so you're scuppered. I think that this is where the story ends. Take care. 3
Scarlett.O'hara Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 The part that stings a wee bit here is I asked if she'd come away with me later in the year for a week and she refused, flat out. I asked why and she said her mother isn't well and didn't want to leave her alone yet she was (still might) go away with her boss for two weeks! Did you call her out on that? She shut you down, but is still considering going away with him.. why? Does she prefer his company over yours, or does she feel "obliged" to consider his offer because he is her boss? In your situation I would really want to know the answer to that before taking things any further. 1
Author longjohn Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 Did you call her out on that? She shut you down, but is still considering going away with him.. why? Does she prefer his company over yours, or does she feel "obliged" to consider his offer because he is her boss? In your situation I would really want to know the answer to that before taking things any further. She didn't say she was going away with him. When I talked to her she seemed like she felt like she should consider it yet she didn't want to. When you said obliged that's exactly what I thought when she said they go out sometimes. I got the distinct feeling she felt like she had to because she had in the past. Here's my issue lets say I throw caution to the wind and keep seeing her. Is she going to try and hide me form him? Will he make her life at work difficult he becomes aware she's off the market. 1
Author longjohn Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 That really is the bottom line, isn't it? We have two givens... first, she has this "friend" who seems to be a lot more than a friend regardless of the details. She sees it as perfectly innocent, normal and expects you to feel the same. Second, you don't feel the same and probably never will regardless of how convincing she is about not banging him. There is an inherent conflict in perspective and it's a major one. The other thing you have to realize is that when a woman has such a relationship with another man, it is at the expense of your relationship with her... time and energy not devoted to you, the intimacy she's spreading around instead of focusing on you and so on. It's always going to be grinding on your nerves. Resentment will follow. It's a triangle. It doesn't matter that she's not sexing him. She has two boyfriends. One for sex and the other for friendship and intimacy. Your only option here is the choice to be the third corner of the triangle, or to say no thanks, I prefer an exclusive relationship. That's exactly it she see's it as normal and innocent and I see it as WTF are you off your tits woman. I won't be part of any triangle of any sort however she has mentioned in the before she feels like he'll eventually find a gf and stop wanting to hang out. I got the impression this is what she is hoping for vs pushing for. She's a nice lady, she volunteers, she's mildly religious, she appears to actually enjoy helping people. Well I think if she wants to keep seeing me she needs to do the impossible and put the genie back in the bottle otherwise I'm done. I'm just not willing to be as nice as she is because all I'll ever see that guy as is a potential threat and I like to ensure from day one I'm not going to be flanked by some "friend" that broke out of the friend zone. 1
Author longjohn Posted August 3, 2016 Author Posted August 3, 2016 Yeah - no, I would not be cool with this, and she seems awfully niave. I have male friends, for many years I had a male "best friend". We didn't go to the movies together, or dinners, or two week long vacations! That's "datey stuff" We did go on road trips and camping trips - with other friends, never just the two of us. We would show up at each others houses, but we lived close to each other, and had known each other since we were children - plus he wasn't my boss. That's exactly what I've told her, what she's been doing is dating her boss but she always says no it isn't a date like that. Yet I keep saying it is a date and it can't go on. I said it's one thing as a group but one and one and he's picking you up from home I don't think so. She did say they used to go out as a group but her other friend got a bf and stopped going. I think she's maybe a bit too nice to the point of naive in a way. Intellectually she's razor sharp. I'm honestly torn on whether to pull the plug or tell her once again to stop dating her boss. I feel if I make a demand she'll hide it, I'll eventually find it and leave her anyway. She did tell me up front and I feel she did only because maybe she hid it from another bf who found out and promptly left her. 1
Satu Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 snip I'm honestly torn on whether to pull the plug or *tell her once again to stop dating her boss. I feel if I make a demand she'll hide it, I'll eventually find it and leave her anyway. She did tell me up front and I feel she did only because maybe she hid it from another bf who found out and promptly left her. *She knows your position and you shouldn't have to say it again. See if she responds positively to what you've said before you pull the plug. Take care.
SevenCity Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 Whether she is technically dating him or not is immaterial. The fact is you have an issue with it and she is willing to do nothing about it. It's possible that she'll want to spend more time with you than him, but it will bother you a lot. I say cut your losses and say "I really like you but I'm not comfortable with a girl I'm dating going on vacation with another guy, so it's best if we part ways". She can either correct it or lie or do nothing but the fact she doesn't see a problem with it is the real problem.
joseb Posted August 3, 2016 Posted August 3, 2016 I don't think this guy has been friend zoned. I think they are dating, but keeping it quite because of work. I saw the same thing happen at my work recently. If you are having (good) sex then maybe keep her around for that, but relegate her to the bottom of your list and find better women.
TunaCat Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 The part that stings a wee bit here is I asked if she'd come away with me later in the year for a week and she refused, flat out. I asked why and she said her mother isn't well and didn't want to leave her alone yet she was (still might) go away with her boss for two weeks! I wasn't too worried about this whole scenario until I hit this passage. Pull the plug on the relationship NOW. Any woman who would a) leave her sick mother for two weeks in favor of a vacation with her boss is either screwing him already or wants to be screwing him and b) she is putting you on the back-burner and so far you seem to be accepting that. Stop accepting less than you deserve.
jazzyhands89 Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) I don't think this guy has been friend zoned. I think they are dating, but keeping it quite because of work. I saw the same thing happen at my work recently. If you are having (good) sex then maybe keep her around for that, but relegate her to the bottom of your list and find better women. Man i tell you I get a kick out of men that say to use a woman for sex but to view her as beneath you. This is what is wrong with dating today lack of empathy and entitled attitudes. OP, you should stop dating her but don't just use her for sex and try to hurt her either be a good person Edited August 4, 2016 by jazzyhands89
Sunkissedpatio Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 Above and beyond the fact she is entertaining going away with "a guy friend" on vacation while she is already dating you, is the fact that this dude is her boss! Therefore, even if she doesn't go away on vaca with him, he will be a the thorn on the side of your relationship for as long as you are with her. And the more invested you become in her the more their "friendship" is going to irk you and cause you jealousy. It really sucks you met someone you really like that is also involved in this scenario. Really, REALLY think this through if you can handle it long-term. What a predicament, I feel for you...
Author longjohn Posted August 4, 2016 Author Posted August 4, 2016 I don't think I can do it, I have to pull the plug. I really like her. I mean she's the first woman I've met a really long time I've actually really liked and clicked with from the minute we meet. I've little doubt the reason she's single is her boss. I'm sure other guys may have done the same I'm about to do. He'll always be there with her more hours of the day than I will. She's been with the same employer forever there no chance she's leaving and I won't be part of some weird love triangle or worse have her tell me one day she's leaving me for him.
Sunkissedpatio Posted August 4, 2016 Posted August 4, 2016 Good for your Longjohn! It really isn't worth the heartache for you, I can't imagine living with that kind of stress suspecting all the time what they are really up to and waiting for the shoe to drop. An old friend of mine reached out recently on FB, she and her husband recently got divorced, they both met at work and we all worked together at the time so I've been good friends with her husband over the years as well. Ran into her a year ago and she had gotten home one night and he had packed all his things and decided he wanted out of the marriage, would not tell her why he was leaving. Now her husband was always seen out in our social circle alone for the most part, years of him out alone and usually accompanied by a female coworker friend who was also married. I always found their friendship odd but if their respective spouses were cool with it who am I to judge? My friend told me this week she finally got it out of her ex that he left her for the co-worker friend. She also said she accepted their affair started 8 years go when they first became friends at work. I always suspected their friendship was odd and so did a lot of our friends. Moral of the story: ...who needs that sht? 1
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