Have you dated someone with borderline? Or do you have it?

[mg101]

Was having a convo with a friend and wondering about what it's like being with one. How do you differentiate between just an emotional person in a bad relationship vs. Bpd? Any specifics?

[RecentChange]

Beyond a diagnosis from a professional - I don't know that a layman is qualified to differentiate.

 

My mother in law suffers from BPD - boy that is a condition that I would not knowingly invite into my life!

[mg101]

Beyond a diagnosis from a professional - I don't know that a layman is qualified to differentiate.

 

My mother in law suffers from BPD - boy that is a condition that I would not knowingly invite into my life!

 

How does she behave?

[Downtown]

MG, I suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, MG.

[RecentChange]

How does she behave?

 

Similar to manic depressive mood swings, but they tend to last hours instead of days..

 

Wide range of extreme emotions, from happy and hyper, to more often full of hate and RAGE. Screaming, yelling, dispair and depression.

 

The local police are familiar with her as her out of control rages and out burts cause neighbors to call the authorities.

 

She is very very difficult to get along with, and causes everyone to walk on eggs shells around her.

 

Her behavior is also markedly unpredictable. Something anyone else would think is fine - will send her flying off the handle, other things which seem like they would be a trigger, she accepts just fine.

 

Generally I would describe her as "miserable" . Her mood swings make her miserable. Her life is full of chaos, and she generally makes those close to her miserable as well.

 

But, she chooses to not seek treatment, and it cant be forced, so all family members can do is sit back and watch her self created disasters .

[RecentChange]

And yes,e everything on Rebels thread. Manipulation, controlling, CRAZY making.

 

At this point all family have removed themselves from her talans, but the damage she has done to her children is long lasting.

[katiegrl]

Similar to manic depressive mood swings, but they tend to last hours instead of days..

 

Wide range of extreme emotions, from happy and hyper, to more often full of hate and RAGE. Screaming, yelling, dispair and depression.

 

The local police are familiar with her as her out of control rages and out burts cause neighbors to call the authorities.

 

She is very very difficult to get along with, and causes everyone to walk on eggs shells around her.

 

Her behavior is also markedly unpredictable. Something anyone else would think is fine - will send her flying off the handle, other things which seem like they would be a trigger, she accepts just fine.

 

Generally I would describe her as "miserable" . Her mood swings make her miserable. Her life is full of chaos, and she generally makes those close to her miserable as well.

 

But, she chooses to not seek treatment, and it cant be forced, so all family members can do is sit back and watch her self created disasters .

 

^^This sounds more like Bipolar I than Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

Although some symptoms overlap, borderlines don't become psychotic the way those who suffer from Bipolar I do.

[mg101]

Similar to manic depressive mood swings, but they tend to last hours instead of days..

 

Wide range of extreme emotions, from happy and hyper, to more often full of hate and RAGE. Screaming, yelling, dispair and depression.

 

The local police are familiar with her as her out of control rages and out burts cause neighbors to call the authorities.

 

She is very very difficult to get along with, and causes everyone to walk on eggs shells around her.

 

Her behavior is also markedly unpredictable. Something anyone else would think is fine - will send her flying off the handle, other things which seem like they would be a trigger, she accepts just fine.

 

Generally I would describe her as "miserable" . Her mood swings make her miserable. Her life is full of chaos, and she generally makes those close to her miserable as well.

 

But, she chooses to not seek treatment, and it cant be forced, so all family members can do is sit back and watch her self created disasters .

 

Oh wow. Ok this sounds nothing like what we were discussing ie someone who isn't happy about things in a relationship and threatens break up but is wishy washy about it. One foot in, one out. No rage or extreme emotions.

[RecentChange]

She has been diagnosed as BPD - twice. Once decades ago, second time after her husband (who tolerated her abuse for years) committed suicide.

 

Downtown's post on the Rebel thread could have been written about her

[katiegrl]

Downtown, would you clarify something for me?

 

I understand Bipolar is a mental illness, but I always thought BPD (Borderline) was more of a personality disorder (not a mental illness) and therefore difficult to diagnose with 100% certainty.

 

I also thought Borderline could not be treated with meds, the way Bipolar is ... as it's not a chemical imbalance in the brain (per se) but again a social/personality disorder.

 

Same way narcissism and psychopathy are personality disorders, which also cannot be treated with meds.

 

Is this incorrect? Thanks!

[ExpatInItaly]

Yes, my ex-boyfriend is diagnosed BPD.

 

He would love me and worship me one minute. Seemingly at the flip of a switch, he hated me and wanted me out of his life. This is the flip between idolizing and devaluing, which are characteristic of BPD.

 

I really never knew what to expect with him. While he could be very kind and loving, he had a frightening dark side - he would fly into rages often and without much provocation. When I say rages, I mean screaming at the top of his lungs, eyes darkened, all kinds of verbal abuse.

 

He constantly sought my approval and assurance that I wouldn't abandon him, yet turn around and kick me out of his life over seemingly innocuous matters. He has very low self-esteem and yet would say just about anything to tear mine down too.

 

But oh, the rages. The verbal assaults. The Jekyll and Hyde. That rapid love-hate...it's maddening and heart-breaking. And it wasn't displayed only with me. He's known lash out terribly with friends and close family members. I tried as hard as I could to love him. He wouldn't seek any help.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Please, do read Downtown's links; he is the resident source on all things related to BPD and a wealth of helpful information.

[katiegrl]

Yes, my ex-boyfriend is diagnosed BPD.

 

He would love me and worship me one minute. Seemingly at the flip of a switch, he hated me and wanted me out of his life. This is the flip between idolizing and devaluing, which are characteristic of BPD.

 

I really never knew what to expect with him. While he could be very kind and loving, he had a frightening dark side - he would fly into rages often and without much provocation. When I say rages, I mean screaming at the top of his lungs, eyes darkened, all kinds of verbal abuse.

 

He constantly sought my approval and assurance that I wouldn't abandon him, yet turn around and kick me out of his life over seemingly innocuous matters. He has very low self-esteem and yet would say just about anything to tear mine down too.

 

But oh, the rages. The verbal assaults. The Jekyll and Hyde. That rapid love-hate...it's maddening and heart-breaking. And it wasn't displayed only with me. He's known lash out terribly with friends and close family members. I tried as hard as I could to love him. He wouldn't seek any help.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Please, do read Downtown's links; he is the resident source on all things related to BPD and a wealth of helpful information.

 

Yeah this^^ definitely sounds like Borderline, more so than the post discussing manic/depressive mood swings and the extreme highs and lows those with Bipolar suffer from.

 

Especially the idolizing and then de-valuing. And the rages.

 

Expat, how long did you endure this? I hope not very long!

[ExpatInItaly]

Yeah this^^ definitely sounds like Borderline, more so than the post discussing manic/depressive mood swings and the extreme highs and lows those with Bipolar suffer from.

 

Especially the idolizing and then de-valuing. And the rages.

 

Expat, how long did you endure this? I hope not very long!

 

We lasted about a year before I finally acknowledged that I couldn't "love" him out of his disorder. That was a long year!

 

It's not easy because when he was feeling good, he was lovely and what any woman would want in a man. But when he flipped...as we say here in Italy...mamma mia.

[Downtown]

Downtown... I understand Bipolar is a mental illness, but I always thought BPD (Borderline) was more of a personality disorder (not a mental illness)....

Katiegrl, that's the way it was for three decades, starting in 1987. The APA's diagnostic manual had distinguished between the "clinical" disorders (called "Axis I") and personality disorders (called "Axis II" disorders). Yet, in all that time, the psychiatric community failed to find any strong evidence that there is a principled distinction between the two. Consequently, the new manual released in 2013 now combines the personality disorders and other mental disorders together in Axis I. Significantly, the diagnostic manual does not identify any of the underlying disorders themselves. Instead, it only lists the behavioral symptoms and gives names to those patterns of symptoms.

 

... and therefore difficult to diagnose with 100% certainty.

Nobody on the planet is able to actually "diagnose" BPD or any other mental illness -- not in the way that term is used in all other scientific fields. When a psychologist claims to have "diagnosed" someone as having BPD, he only means he has determined that the behavioral symptoms are strong and persistent.

 

In every field of the medical sciences, however, "diagnosis" does NOT occur by simply telling you the severity or persistence of your symptoms. On the contrary, whenever you visit a medical doctor, he will rely on YOU to provide that information. Indeed, if you are UNABLE to spot any symptoms, your disease will be said to be "asymptomatic," i.e., without symptoms. By definition, a "symptom" is a condition that laymen are able to spot. This is why the very first thing your doctor will ask you is what symptoms you've been experiencing, how severe they are, and how long they have been occurring.

 

Hence, when a medical doctor gives you a diagnosis, he is not describing your symptoms. Rather, he is telling you what CAUSES the symptoms that you have described to him. If instead the doctor were to simply tell you that your stomach pain and fever are at a level 10 on a 10-point scale -- and then tell you to pay $200 on your way out -- you would be furious.

 

For several decades, psychologists tried to diagnose like the rest of the scientific community -- i.e., they tried to identify the underlying causes of behavioral symptoms. Sadly, the result was an unmitigated disaster. It was so bad that a client seeing three different psychologists likely would be given three different diagnoses. By the mid-1970s, the field of psychology had become such a joke to the scientific community that the American Psychiatric Association (APA) members decided to abandon their futile efforts to diagnose mental disorders.

 

Specifically, in 1980 the APA stopped trying to identify the causes of the behavioral symptoms. Instead, it adopted a new approach (DSM-III) in which it identifies only the symptoms themselves. The irony, of course, is that the APA decided to use the term "diagnosis" to describe this process of rating the severity of symptoms. Never mind that nobody has yet been able to prove, to a certainty, what it is that CAUSES personality disorders. Although there are some good theories and empirical evidence, it is yet unproven as to why BPD and other PDs occur. It is unknown, for example, why some abused children exhibit strong PD traits but most do not.

 

Unfortunately, this misuse of the term "diagnosis" has confused a large share of the lay public. Many laymen fear that, if they start speaking of behavioral symptoms in an educated manner, people will think they are trying to do an "armchair diagnosis." The unfortunate result is that many people remain fully reliant on street language (e.g., talking about a$$h**es and b!tc*es) instead of using the wonderful vocabulary of descriptive terms provided by the APA's "diagnostic" manual.

 

These fearful folks confuse "spotting symptoms" with "making a diagnosis" even though there is a world of difference between the two. They don't realize that the psychiatric community WANTS them to learn how to spot strong occurrences of these behavioral symptoms -- i.e., the warning signs associated with each disorder. This is why hundreds of mental health institutions describe these behavioral symptoms on their public websites.

 

I also thought Borderline could not be treated with meds, the way Bipolar is ... as it's not a chemical imbalance in the brain (per se) but again a social/personality disorder.

Yes, you are correct. Whereas bipolar symptoms -- and the symptoms of many of the other "clinical" disorders -- can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, the symptoms of personality disorders cannot be treated that way at this time.

 

This does not mean, however, that those pills actually treat the mental disorders themselves. As I noted above, nobody knows for certain what the underlying disorders are. The pills therefore are simply targeted to reducing the behavioral symptoms arising from clinical disorders such as bipolar, depression, and ADHD -- in the same way that medical doctors prescribe pain killers to treat the symptoms of diseases they cannot identify or treat. Because the medication treats only the symptoms, it cannot cure the underlying cause of those symptoms.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Downtown

[anika99]

Yes, my ex-boyfriend is diagnosed BPD.

 

He would love me and worship me one minute. Seemingly at the flip of a switch, he hated me and wanted me out of his life. This is the flip between idolizing and devaluing, which are characteristic of BPD.

 

I really never knew what to expect with him. While he could be very kind and loving, he had a frightening dark side - he would fly into rages often and without much provocation. When I say rages, I mean screaming at the top of his lungs, eyes darkened, all kinds of verbal abuse.

 

He constantly sought my approval and assurance that I wouldn't abandon him, yet turn around and kick me out of his life over seemingly innocuous matters. He has very low self-esteem and yet would say just about anything to tear mine down too.

 

But oh, the rages. The verbal assaults. The Jekyll and Hyde. That rapid love-hate...it's maddening and heart-breaking. And it wasn't displayed only with me. He's known lash out terribly with friends and close family members. I tried as hard as I could to love him. He wouldn't seek any help.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

Please, do read Downtown's links; he is the resident source on all things related to BPD and a wealth of helpful information.

 

My ex BPD bf exactly! I would never do it again.

[Gloria25]

Downtown, would you clarify something for me?

 

I understand Bipolar is a mental illness, but I always thought BPD (Borderline) was more of a personality disorder (not a mental illness) and therefore difficult to diagnose with 100% certainty.

 

I also thought Borderline could not be treated with meds, the way Bipolar is ... as it's not a chemical imbalance in the brain (per se) but again a social/personality disorder.

 

Same way narcissism and psychopathy are personality disorders, which also cannot be treated with meds.

 

Is this incorrect? Thanks!

 

 

I agree with you, based on what I've heard - Bipolar is mental illness and Borderline is a personality disorder.

 

How would you know the difference?

 

Every month I have drama with my period. I've had it for years. As a teen I'd have migraines, nausea/vomiting, and would pass out. It wasn't until in my 20's that I started noticing the mood swings. So, it's hormonal changes in my body. I'm not like this all the time. I think I have PMDD. I mean, every month it's different. I get either/or...or all of this: Cravings, bloating, pain (not just cramps, but my body aches), tiredness, nausea, swollen breasts (which look very sexy), mood swings, crying, nausea, vomiting, sleeplessness, pimples (yes, still at 40).

 

From my experience, when it's something you have problems controlling, it's not Borderline. Cuz, when my period is coming, I know something's off, but it's like I can't stop. Once it passes, I look back and am like "WTF/WTH" just happened? Why was I about to cry and think the world is gonna end? Today I feel great.

 

IMO, Borderline people are always crappy - 24/7/365. Bipolar is kinda like PMS/PMDD - it's comes in episodes (like the days surrounding your period) and then it's gone until it comes around again. The person isn't always like that.

 

So, IMO, Borderline is someone's personality. They're like that and will never change. Bipolar is high/lows. They may be manic for days to weeks - then go back to 'normal'.

 

I hate how I have to deal with this crap every month. Once my hormones level out, I feel embarrassed and upset. No joy in this. I believe Borderline people don't care, cuz that's who they are.

 

It doesn't help that I have a lot of stress in my life right now too. It's like fuel feeding my PMS/PMDD.

 

I don't know what a guy might think about me. Dude thinks I'm crazy. That makes me wanna cry. I feel like I scared him away. I wish he would know/understand that I'm dealing with a lot of crap that fuels the PMS/PMDD. I know it's not right to make him suffer when I'm going through an episode, but I feel if he knew why I get weird like this, he'd help by not feeding it. Like, when he was studying for his exam, I took a step back to let him concentrate - I didn't want to add to his stress. If you care about someone, you try to understand them and support them, not make their situation harder. Cuz yes, I'm not a fan of someone you're dating to be your punching bag, therapist, and/or priest - but, in a RL, there's gonna be moments that both of you have to work with each other. And, same way like I cooled my heels to not stress him while he was studying, it would be nice if he was considerate of the stresses I have - which make my PMS/PMDD even worse.

 

But, me cussing him out last week was the worst. We have had discussions initiated by me (that probably came up cuz of my period), but I believe that I kept my demon at bay. Last Friday I just couldn't stand it anymore. Like I posted here - between family "emergencies", some bad news I got, and then him...I lost it. I'm praying he understands me and forgives me. Eh, part of me thinks he's had enough

Edited August 2, 2016 by Gloria25

[SoThatHappened]

Was having a convo with a friend and wondering about what it's like being with one. How do you differentiate between just an emotional person in a bad relationship vs. Bpd? Any specifics?

I dated a woman (over 2 years ago) who showed strong, persistent BPD traits.

 

I'm now fully healed and moved on, and actually better for having gone through all of that.

 

However, I'd rather be chained to a wall and set on fire than go through that again.

 

I've been with "crazy" women before and have been with an extremely emotional woman before. The run of the mill emotions and "crazy" I can handle. But never again with those who exhibit strong BPD traits.

[Weezy1973]

Just recently broke up with a woman that had BPD traits. It only lasted nine months and luckily I knew something was up fairly early on. Some of the BPD traits that I saw quite early:

 

Black and white thinking

Fear of abandonment

Impulsiveness

Lack of a sense of self

A history of suicidal ideation

Very unstable adult relationships including friendships, romantic relationships and family relationships

Unstable work history

 

The worst thing by far though was her lack of empathy. It was so disconcerting to be with someone that, while saying she loved me, clearly didn't care about me or my feelings. And she had been in therapy since she was 19 years old (she's now 40). She also wouldn't take responsibility for her actions. I was lucky to have recognized something was off early and to get out fairly early so I didn't get any real scars, but there is a lot of residual anger.

[Mrlonelyone]

Of the last female I was involved with it could be said I expect everything and nothing and all possible states in between all at once.

 

I don't know if that's borderline but it is certainly troubling.

 

There are two things to remember about mental illnesses.

 

1.) They aren't so much about being this type or that diagnosis or the other. They are scales. Some people are more borderline than others, more depressed than others, more bipolar than others. Most mentally unstable people are what they call subclinical. They function well enough and medication would not do much for them.

 

Talk therapy in the form of support and understanding from family can be enough. For example, ever dated someone whos family warned you they were kinda nutty but not dangerous crazy?

 

2.) This is very important. Even a clinically mentally ill person can be a good relationship partner with the right therapy, medication, and behavior modification. They have to learn, if nothing else, to recognize when their brain is fooling them. They have to learn how to think about what their brain makes them feel.

 

This takes a lot of work and the support of a loving partner can help. That said there is a third thing to remember about a relationship with or dating such a person.

 

3.) Don't give yourself up trying to make someone who's got mental issues better. They have to internally want to change and do the work. Much like an addict they have to want to change for themselves.

 

This is especially true if you happen upon them at the point in life before they realize they have a problem(s). You may have to let them go and get on with your life. Even if you get such a person into a "relationsihp" it will be rocky, stormy, and full of trouble.

 

TLDR a person with BPD or any other mental issue can be relationship matterial IF and only if they are getting help.

[Shanex]

I have dated one, and it's like being ambushed on an emotional roller-coaster everyday. One day you are their best friend ever, the next day their worst enemy.

 

Their need for acceptance make them fickle.