What is BS thinking?!

July 28, 2016

What's brazen is presuming you know what the bw needs. It's actually creepy and grotesque and you've never met this woman. You know what's best for her? It's disordered.

July 28, 2016

I'm sorry I'm coming across as brazen. People who know me know I'm nothing like that. It's a function of the way this is thread is progressing, the myriad way in which people misinterpret and misunderstand my situation. It's just too funny.

MM and I have both lived long decades of sheer hell and misery in service of making other people happy. I think we've done our time. At this point in our lives we think we're entitled to a bit of happiness too. As the meme says, you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. BW is a strong woman with a supportive community and everything she needs. She's been through this before. She came out just fine last time and I think she will again.

Wow. Just wow. How can you say this about another woman whose husband you're actively scheming to poach? Empathy is a good quality to have . It's not all about what we want. Why do you deserve happiness at another's expense? Just because you've been through sheer hell, why is it ok to subject BS to it?

I will pray for you.

July 28, 2016

...the myriad way in which people misinterpret and misunderstand my situation. It's just too funny.

well... folks DID ask questions about things they misunderstood or misinterpreted... you ignored it all. so there you have it.

July 28, 2016

Yup agreed! I Think ThinkMore likes to stir the pot! I'm out!

Me too.....

What a lot of hogwash....

July 28, 2016

Well, I don't think any of us here have the time and interest that would be required to fully understand my situation. Many of the things that people have asked about just don't strike me as relevant to the matter at hand given I'm not asking to anyone to agree with me.

No one has presented a down side that is significant enough to change my current course. Whether people believe me or not, it makes very little difference to me whether he gets divorced or stays married. I absolutely will not give up the certainly and stability of my current financial arrangements for the uncertainty of his reliance on the price of oil and the state of the economy. My bigger worry is that he might end up freeloading off me if things go downhill for him. I trust he has enough pride to not do that.

It also makes no sense to me why two people should give up their first shot at real happiness in their lives just because one mature adult might be sad for a while. If things go south for me I'll be fine anyway. At least I tried.

The discussion has been interesting all the same. I'm happy to drop the subject and leave if everyone else stops posting things that inspire me to post. Some people are tired of it and I think I will be soon enough too.

July 28, 2016

My bigger worry is that he might end up freeloading off me if things go downhill for him. I trust he has enough pride to not do that.

Why would you trust his pride? Again that is putting the responsibility on him. The best thing you can to is know your boundaries and enforce them. I would be worried about this as this thread demonstrates your boundaries are permeable with this man. You are accountable for what you allow, not him.

It also makes no sense to me why two people should give up their first shot at real happiness in their lives just because one mature adult might be sad for a while. If things go south for me I'll be fine anyway. At least I tried.

Whether you see it or not, this is an entitled attitude. You might also find that he wife also feels entitled to her happiness. You are not entitled to get bent out of shape if he choose to choose her. Or more likely, he chooses himself and maintains the status quo.

No one has presented a down side that is significant enough to change my current course.

I don't think anyone here expects you to change your mind but your story is inconsistent. He has told his wife previously he wanted a divorce (while you were in the picture) and it didn't happen.

What has changed? Why would she be any more receptive to the discussion this time? He is also leaving it up to her. As someone whose husband decided they didn't want to be married any more - it isn't that hard. He just tells her. Establishes his boundaries, is kind and fair but pushes ahead with the practicalities.

Why is he going to do that now when his past behaviour (a decent predictor of future behaviour) indicates otherwise?

July 28, 2016

I've read your whole thread several times, and I'm still confused about what type of relationship you have with MM, what you want out of this relationship, and why you are so certain he's going to be better at breaking up with his wife this time that you bought a plane ticket. The only thing I'm clear on is that you can't understand why his wife is behaving so bizarrely. The logical answer to that is because he is giving you only snippets of the truth. That's much more likely than that his wife went from being a no-nonsense cheater-dumper to a woman who refuses to believe what she is told directly and then plays the mime to hold her husband hostage, all while planning to put an inheritance into their joint business venture.

It has occurred to me that a person so proud to buck convention and social mores with infidelity might perhaps apply the same rule of thumb to honesty on anonymous internet forums.

July 28, 2016

One detail I mentioned earlier that people seem to have forgotten is that his lawyer and his accountant advised him in the past to not do anything until that mortgage is paid off (or more than that actually but that was the absolute minimum). What's different now that that is about to happen at the end of this month and he will be free to proceed according to whatever he thinks he wants to do next. Hopefully with the continued advice of his lawyer and his accountant.

July 28, 2016

One detail I mentioned earlier that people seem to have forgotten is that his lawyer and his accountant advised him in the past to not do anything until that mortgage is paid off (or more than that actually but that was the absolute minimum). What's different now that that is about to happen at the end of this month and he will be free to proceed according to whatever he thinks he wants to do next. Hopefully with the continued advice of his lawyer and his accountant.

Oh that's right. His wife is about to sink a large amount of her own money into the mortgage so now the MM thinks this is a good time to ditch her. But in your first post you said the MM couldn't bear to hurt her because he's just so sweet that way but now that she's going to take care of his mortgage all of a sudden hurting her is no problem. He wasn't trying not to hurt her, he has been using her all along, to run his business and now to pay off the mortgage. He is a user. This isn't his first shot at happiness and it won't be his last. He takes what he can get out of people and you won't be spared.

July 28, 2016

One detail I mentioned earlier that people seem to have forgotten is that his lawyer and his accountant advised him in the past to not do anything until that mortgage is paid off (or more than that actually but that was the absolute minimum). What's different now that that is about to happen at the end of this month and he will be free to proceed according to whatever he thinks he wants to do next. Hopefully with the continued advice of his lawyer and his accountant.

This would have to be some of the worst advice I have ever encountered and I hope he didn't pay for it.

I would expect advisors to help me achieve my outcome. In your MM's case - a desire to leave the marriage.

He may not end up in a better position if in a property settlement her additional contribution is recognised as her asset.

What a bang up guy. Spineless and deceptive.

July 30, 2016

Well, I don't think any of us here have the time and interest that would be required to fully understand my situation. Many of the things that people have asked about just don't strike me as relevant to the matter at hand given I'm not asking to anyone to agree with me.

No one has presented a down side that is significant enough to change my current course. Whether people believe me or not, it makes very little difference to me whether he gets divorced or stays married. I absolutely will not give up the certainly and stability of my current financial arrangements for the uncertainty of his reliance on the price of oil and the state of the economy. My bigger worry is that he might end up freeloading off me if things go downhill for him. I trust he has enough pride to not do that.

It also makes no sense to me why two people should give up their first shot at real happiness in their lives just because one mature adult might be sad for a while. If things go south for me I'll be fine anyway. At least I tried.

Yep, this (bolded) makes perfect sense to me. It worked for us, and I hope it works out for you, too. If not, you've lost nothing by trying.

July 31, 2016

Yep, this (bolded) makes perfect sense to me. It worked for us, and I hope it works out for you, too. If not, you've lost nothing by trying.

Thank you so much from both of us. You are so kind. We wish you continued happiness as well.

July 31, 2016

Quote from OP: "...It also makes no sense to me why two people should give up their first shot at real happiness in their lives just because one mature adult might be sad for a while. If things go south for me I'll be fine anyway. At least I tried."

This is how I see this whole situation: this guy at my church has an Aston Martin. It's a very nice car, it matches my eyes perfectly. It would make me very happy to have it. I'm a good driver, while the Aston Martin owner has had a few fender benders ( in another car!) . The car would much prefer me as a driver. I want it, I'll take it while it's in the parking lot. Why shouldn't I? I have every right to be happy. So what if the Aston Martin owner is unhappy? So what if he's put a lot of money into it! He's a mature adult , He'll get over it.

Maybe it's me, but I find this line of thinking a little callous. Actually, I think the whole thing is shady and deceptive. Regardless of what MM and his wife's M is actually like, to plot to ditch her, behind her back, after she's invested her assets, her life into his business...Why do you want a part of this? Why would you trust a man who is willing to treat his wife this way?

I don't think happiness gained at someone else's expense is truly real happiness. Maybe if you're free and available , you may find a man who is free and available to love you, the way you want to be loved. Without the added baggage of wrecking in an innocent party's life to do so.

One of the members on LS has this quote, I paraphrase: " God doesn't bring you a sole mate in the form of someone else's husband".

I don't recall from reading your previous postings, but have you considered some self reflection in the form of IC to explore why you seek the kind of relationships you seek. It's OK to want more for yourself, you deserve happiness. But happiness gained the right way is oh so much more enjoyable.

July 31, 2016

No one has presented a down side that is significant enough to change my current course. Whether people believe me or not, it makes very little difference to me whether he gets divorced or stays married. I absolutely will not give up the certainly and stability of my current financial arrangements for the uncertainty of his reliance on the price of oil and the state of the economy. My bigger worry is that he might end up freeloading off me if things go downhill for him. I trust he has enough pride to not do that.

It also makes no sense to me why two people should give up their first shot at real happiness in their lives just because one mature adult might be sad for a while. If things go south for me I'll be fine anyway. At least I tried.

You don't have a current course. You're on the side with no power to change this marriage. It's all up to him and he will continue to give you excuses. You say you don't care if he stays married yet you also say this is your first shot at real happiness. Aren't you happy now? Why does he have to divorce?

He will freeload off of you if he gets divorced. How could he not? According to the plan, his wife will get the house and the business. What would he have left for his retirement? If you believe a man, especially over 50, is going to walk away from a business and mortgage free home, you're crazy.

As for the price of your "real happiness," his wife being sad for a while is one of the coldest things I've read here. Happiness at the expense of another's pain isn't happiness. Your happiness comes from wanting to control this situation and win.

He won't leave his wife. He won't leave his money. I do predict things will go south for you but, as you said, you'll be fine.

July 31, 2016

Quote from OP: "

One of the members on LS has this quote, I paraphrase: " God doesn't bring you a sole mate in the form of someone else's husband".

.

This is insignificant, but if this is an important mantra that you plan to use often, you might want to know to use "soul" not "sole".

I'm stuck thinking the bottom of her Nike shoes are making her happy.

July 31, 2016

This is insignificant, but if this is an important mantra that you plan to use often, you might want to know to use "soul" not "sole".

I'm stuck thinking the bottom of her Nike shoes are making her happy.

That's the only funny thing about this whole situation.

July 31, 2016

Yep, this (bolded) makes perfect sense to me. It worked for us, and I hope it works out for you, too. If not, you've lost nothing by trying.

She stands to lose a great deal by trying.

Poppy.

July 31, 2016

She stands to lose a great deal by trying.

Poppy.

Unfortunately, MM does not want to go back to his old life with her. Given all the things we've been through together I don't see how he could. She loses him no matter what i do. If it doesn't work out with me he will go back to single long distance trucking or commit suicide. So he has been saying for a long time anyway.

August 1, 2016

He and I agreed that spilling news of the affair by phone was inappropriate. When he'd go home he tried to bring up the subject. No dice. Did I mention that in their years together they have never had a single argument? She hasn't uttered a word of complaint no matter what he does; things any normal person would have something to say about. She is all sweetness and light at all times. Everyone in their town loves her.

She holds very strong views on cheating. When she found her first H cheated she tossed him right out. MM and I have been together a year now. Despite the distance, all the signs have been blatantly obvious. She hasn't questioned a single one of his thinly veiled lies. He can't believe she doesn't see the obvious. He can't quite bring himself to blurt out the truth though. He can't see himself hurting her with such a statement. He has never spoken a negative word about her. He says she's a good person and hasn't done anything wrong.

Do you really REALLY believe that his lies to his wife are thinly veiled and he is itching for her to find out but doesn't have the heart to just tell her?

There is a fool proof way she could find out without him having to come an tell her point blank and that is he could leave a major "clue" for her to find and then he flipped the script and can let her do all the dirty work since he is SOOO concerned with confronting her with the truth. He could leave a love email to you up for her to find, or he could leave a perfumed shirt around that smells like you or has your lipstick on the collar, or he could just leave his phone around with one of your texts for her to find. The absurdity of him saying that he is trying really hard to make her catch him and she is looking the other way is beyond hilarious.

You know why she hasn't found out? Because he is as good a liar to her as he is to you.

If you think for second this man is being honest with you, then you are in for some huge unpleasant surprises.

August 1, 2016

Unfortunately, MM does not want to go back to his old life with her. Given all the things we've been through together I don't see how he could. She loses him no matter what i do. If it doesn't work out with me he will go back to single long distance trucking or commit suicide. So he has been saying for a long time anyway.

Okay, that kind of emotional blackmail is pretty crappy and many other adjectives come to mind.

August 1, 2016

In your own words, you admit to being perfectly comfortable with lying.

In one post you say " I am permanently disabled and could lose my disability pension" to explain why he can't live with you. Then you boast about how you are well set up financially.

As a fellow Canadian who has helped people apply for and budget based on their disability allowance or pension, and as someone who is well verse din the laws surrounding it, if you are comfortably well off on a disability pension, you are scamming the system.

Now you may be wondering why I focused on that. I pair it with statements you make like:

" I've created a world for myself where I'm happy. I don't rely on anyone. My financial situation is better than the hints at it I've shared."

and

"people like I used to be, shackled by religious dogma and patrician society, where we all expect people to behave a certain way and then we're shocked when they act like how people have always behaved. Then we condemn the evil-doers. Well people still haven't changed. They still lie and cheat and steal and all sorts of other things people aren't supposed to do. "

Again, you are likely wondering why I bring those points up. I do it because if I can see them, your mm can see them and likely doesn't feel he can trust you one bit. mind you, he won't tell you that, but when he compares his honest, hardworking wife to someone who freely admits to being fine with lying to get what she wants, what do you think will come to his mind?

as for you flying to meet him, someone on a fixed income of between $950.00 and $1,200 purchasing a ticket that costs about $800? How do you afford that? Again, I will point out that something isn't adding up.

August 1, 2016

It also makes no sense to me why two people should give up their first shot at real happiness in their lives just because one mature adult might be sad for a while. If things go south for me I'll be fine anyway. At least I tried.

That is very true. No one dies from a failed relationship. It would be good for your guy to be thinking like that but for whatever reason his own future happiness is far less important if it means having to face the music with his wife in order to achieve that. So that leads me, and many others to believe that the way things are suit him just fine.

My confusion is, if you don't want him to divorce, and he is trying everything he can to leave trails so that he gets caught, why in the world do you care if his wife finds out or not? Is it because then you think the stress will become unbearable for him and he will have to drop you?

If that is your fear, then are you both really on the same page about the above statement?

August 1, 2016

I truly hope both you and he are reading here. Hopefully, he will recognise that he has been manipulated by you.

August 1, 2016

I'm also Canadian. If OP is on disability pension, that would mean at max she would be receiving about 1600 a month (AISH). That is not much to live on considering rent prices in some cities. No one is that "comfortable" on this amount of money unless they are living in an extremely subsidized housing.

OP, I hope this turns out that you and your MM end up together. I'm sure his W will get over it and find someone who will love her better than you MM. She deserves better. Take care.

In your own words, you admit to being perfectly comfortable with lying.

In one post you say " I am permanently disabled and could lose my disability pension" to explain why he can't live with you. Then you boast about how you are well set up financially.

As a fellow Canadian who has helped people apply for and budget based on their disability allowance or pension, and as someone who is well verse din the laws surrounding it, if you are comfortably well off on a disability pension, you are scamming the system. .

August 1, 2016

OP, I hope this turns out that you and your MM end up together. I'm sure his W will get over it and find someone who will love her better than you MM. She deserves better. Take care.

OP I believe you and your MM are well matched and that the wife needs to find someone better! I honestly believe my WS and his MOW are better matched as far as their character disorders go!

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