What is BS thinking?!

July 25, 2016

There's no reason for him to lie to me. Whatever he chooses to do with his life is his business and totally fine with me. I have him available as much as I want to see him. I'd like to see his business succeed and for him to get his money back. He's perfectly happy to just give it to her.

The only thing that bothers me is i just don't think it's healthy for anyone to be lying that much. Surely it's going to affect his health in the long run. Or so I suspect. But if she doesn't want to know maybe he should just keep his mouth shut.

Nope it's not healthy, but that is on your MM.

July 25, 2016

We really don't want to hurt her. I wouldn't mind them continuing things as is. Stay married. Just stop lying to her. But what do you do with someone who refuses to discuss anything? It's like she thinks as long as she doesn't talk nothing bad can happen. But seriously????

How do you stop the lying when that is the main ingredient to an A?

To stop the lying you either stop the A or expose the A.

July 25, 2016

There are many parts to your story that don't seem to add up.

For example, MM had a perfect opportunity to exit the marriage when their best friends told BW. You imagine that she simply refuses to accept reality, though in her previous marriage she was so against cheating that she ended it immediately. Conclusion: MM is a skilled liar who made sure to "explain away" the situation.

So it's the wife's responsibility to assume that her husband is lying to her and to question what he tells her? And if she doesn't, then it's her fault that she's lied to and cheated on? I call this victim-blaming.

He's a grown man who has been divorced before, but she can force him to remain married to her by being silent? Conclusion: MM is a passive conflict avoider who is not having the same conversation his wife is having because he lacks communication skills and the ability to face conflict.

They've both divorced before. They know how it's done. If they wanted the marriage to be over, then a distance of 3,000 miles and a DD at the hands of their best friends would be the perfect catalyst to end the marriage. Conclusion: for some reason that none of us not in the marriage can fathom, they both want to remain married. MM has worked himself into a pickle but clearly lacks the communication and conflict resolution skills to resolve it. (Show me a man with good communication and conflict resolution skills, and I'll be you he's not having an affair.) So now he sits around stewing that BW accepts the little that he's giving her and his "thinly veiled" lies. It's a very sad situation all around.

If I had to guess, I'd bet that accepting a job 3,000 miles away and only visiting every few months were his way of passively escaping from the marriage. I don't know why; maybe he's a self-sabotaguer. Clearly he enjoys being a victim or else he wouldn't treat his wife so poorly and them blame her for accepting it. If you are expecting him to "make things right" then I am very afraid you will be disappointed. Odds are he'll be sharing with you the outrageous story of her refusing to accept that the marriage is over after this next discussion. And then you and he can marvel at how terrible it is for him to be stuck with the Big Bad Wolf (a woman who never argues, never complains that he visits rarely and moved far away, who gives him the benefit of the doubt and accepts what he tells her as truth) while the situation remains exactly as it is.

Actually we'd already not to break this sort of news to her over the phone. The supposed DDay just happened. That's why he's thinking of going there in person.

Also, no one is blaming the BS for anything. We just noted that her behaviour is hard for us to be sure we understand.

If we knew for sure she doesn't want to know he can just leave things as is. Maybe there's a way to stop lying without telling her? Need to put some thought into that.

And it's me on here asking because he's just not good at dealing with forums. And I have lots of spare time and enjoy doing this sort of thing.

July 25, 2016

The BW is not playing at a hobby business. It is the MM's business that she is running for him. He made the choice to take on another job because he needed to finance his business that he left in his wife's care. He isn't financing his wife's "hobby", by the sounds of it she is working her ass off trying to make his business a success (of course it's really the wife's business as well even though the OP referred to it as though it solely belongs to the MM) and it sounds like the business is making a profit now but not enough to support both of them. This business is obviously important to the MM and that's why he took the job away from home, so that the business would survive. It's not like the BS is just a mindless housewife who is so caught up in her silly hobby that she is blind to her husband. I doubt that she has her head in the sand. She thinks she is working towards a common goal with her husband. He likes having his OW in one town for playtime and his wife in another town, running HIS business for him. He's got it made.

And it's this possibly that scares us. It would be even more ass-holish for him to continue if she doesn't know and actually would want to know. He can go there to tell her this week if that's what she would prefer. We're just not sure.

July 25, 2016

Maybe she doesn't think conventionally, either?

That would be awesome if that were the case. Seems unlikely though.

July 25, 2016

i'm not sure what exactly you're unconventional about; if he doesn't want or plan to divorce her - then what would be the point in telling her the truth? why do you care if he's lying to her if he suits your purposes just the way they are? you seem pretty conventional to me.

From what little I've managed to read on these forums so far I get the impression OWs who are happy with the way this are are in the minority and are frowned upon. Ü

I care because I suspect constant lying isn't good for a person's health. MM seems to be pretty stressed. I'm sure stress isn't good for anyone. I'd like him to be healthy and long-lived.

July 25, 2016

Seems like an arrangement is working for all the three of you.
His wife is happy and busy with the business, obviously she doesn't mind they barely see each other.
He found you to fulfill whatever his needs are.
You seems to be ok with the way things are - you don't want to live with him and don't want to be married in general.
So why exactly does it matter what his wife thinks? Just curious.

I'm a bit of a sucker for being nice to people. Within limits. And as I've mentioned in previous responses, MM seems stressed and I don't think that's good for him. Perhaps there's some course of action that will improve on the status quo.

July 25, 2016

Trust, but verify.

Well, you don't trust him and you may *think* he has no reason to lie, but if he told you the truth of "I'm going to work this job for X number of years to get my business 3000 miles away off and running, then move back there and work tagt business, would you be as open to it?

There's still a desire for him to woo and chase you. In this day and age, women don't play hard to get, so there's not much challenge, not as much pursuit. He "got you" to fall in love with him. That's pretty impressive.

A friend of mine has been legally separated for at least 20 years. His wife has raised their children with a different man, living in the house he bought with her. He has dated extensively and tells his dates, "the bitch won't divorce me." He recently came into some money, an inheritance that the wife doesn't know about. He's had it sitting in a savings account. He has no plans to use it. He's not a traveler, not a hobby buff, has the car and house he wants paid for. The only purpose of that money at his age is to leave it to his children. His kids aren't that interested in him. They are graduated from college and call wife's live in "Papa". He was in their lives since they were young 26 days a month.

Now my friend twists a good lie, but the truth is, for whatever reason, HE is the one who fights divorce. I think it is because he wants to deny her the chance to marry the man she's with.

He is in a city large enough that he is able to date women who don't have any interaction with his wife. He keeps them at arms' length. He dated a friend of mine for many years. It was three years or more before she actually met the kids and even then it was a fluke. He would tell her point blank that on his weekends and his nights during the week, he was NOT answering his phone.

I think a lot of OW wonder about the BS mindset (and vice versa). I find your situation hardly cookie cutter, but it just sounds all so implausible. And that could be because you are leaving out details to keep it anonymous.

July 25, 2016

I'm a bit of a sucker for being nice to people. Within limits. And as I've mentioned in previous responses, MM seems stressed and I don't think that's good for him. Perhaps there's some course of action that will improve on the status quo.

He has good reason to be stressed as it is REALLY hard to live a double life. When I was in my A the level of stress that I felt as a WS was unbelievable. There were times I wanted to be caught because the lying got to me so much. It was an awful time in my life

July 26, 2016

From what little I've managed to read on these forums so far I get the impression OWs who are happy with the way this are are in the minority and are frowned upon. Ü

I care because I suspect constant lying isn't good for a person's health. MM seems to be pretty stressed. I'm sure stress isn't good for anyone. I'd like him to be healthy and long-lived.

I'm a former OW. I was happy with MM. We never fought. Lots of good sex. It was convenient for me. It suited my lifestyle. To be of the mindset that is "okay" to be with a MM for seven years is alien to many people. They believe you are hurting the BS, with or without a Dday. Some believe having an affair/cheating is the worse thing you can do. I've had people tell me that child abuse and murder aren't worse. I'll bet BTK and Gary Ridgeways wife would disagree.

It probably seems as alien to them as it does to me, to maintain two households, have a job 3000 miles away and to spend 3 years plus on a business that doesn't support me.

July 26, 2016

Some of us are just nice non-confrontational people...

*conflict avoidant. it's a flaw; not a virtue.

saying that the two of you don't want to hurt the W is ridiculous - you ARE hurting her (well... your MM is). repeating empty phrases is just that... empty phrases. your words aren't followed by actions - it is also totally unclear why this MM couldn't utter a simple "i'm having an affair" sentence to his wife. he had 100000000 opportunities, let's be real.

The only thing that bothers me is i just don't think it's healthy for anyone to be lying that much.

but telling her about the A and then continuing the marriage with her... the wife he feels NOTHING for is healthy...? does that make sense to you?

July 26, 2016

From what little I've managed to read on these forums so far I get the impression OWs who are happy with the way this are are in the minority and are frowned upon.

to be honest - this isn't a thread about a happy OW. it doesn't seem that way; this is a thread about an OW who wants the W to know about the A and wonders why that same W didn't take D-day seriously. let's focus on that, that was your original question.

I care because I suspect constant lying isn't good for a person's health. MM seems to be pretty stressed. I'm sure stress isn't good for anyone. I'd like him to be healthy and long-lived.

okay. what do you think will change when his W finds out about the A? do you think she'll divorce him and his stress levels will decrease? what if she wants to stay married - you think that WON'T create additional stress?

why is lying and cheating WORSE than living in an unhappy marriage with someone you feel nothing for emotionally? i just don't get it.

July 26, 2016

From what little I've managed to read on these forums so far I get the impression OWs who are happy with the way this are are in the minority and are frowned upon. Ü

I care because I suspect constant lying isn't good for a person's health. MM seems to be pretty stressed. I'm sure stress isn't good for anyone. I'd like him to be healthy and long-lived.

I assumed from your first post that this is not your first affair, is it?

I mean, why suddenly worry about the lies and the double life? After all, this is something that is pretty much one of the main factors of an affair, did it not bother you previously? And is it not something you sort of knew about when you decided that you would start seeing MMs? I mean, everything has its perks and its downsides and to live a certain life, one must make peace with all aspects that come with it.

Tbh, when I was an OW, I was satisfied being just that - an OW. Did not think about having an actual relationship with him, did not need anything more that what we shared. And I certainly never beat myself up about whether lying to his wife is good for his health (morally speaking, not my finest moment but I was very young and immature).

This is why I am comfortable telling you that it seems that you are convincing yourself that you don't want him to divorce when in fact, you do want precisely that.

July 26, 2016

Despite the bravado you are intending to portray, his wife is a threat to you.

Otherwise it wouldn't matter what she thinks or why.

In other words, your insecurity is showing. What are you thinking?

Edited July 26, 2016 by MuddyFootprints

July 26, 2016

There's no reason for him to lie to me. Whatever he chooses to do with his life is his business and totally fine with me. I have him available as much as I want to see him. I'd like to see his business succeed and for him to get his money back. He's perfectly happy to just give it to her.

The only thing that bothers me is i just don't think it's healthy for anyone to be lying that much. Surely it's going to affect his health in the long run. Or so I suspect. But if she doesn't want to know maybe he should just keep his mouth shut.

Why do you talk like his wife isn't entitled to any money. In your first post you said her husband supports her. How do you figure? She is working full time at trying to make his business a success for him. Is she supposed to do that and then go beg in the street for a roof over her head? Sounds like you think he should divorce her and take everything.

Also as a fellow Canadian I'm pretty sure you know that Canadians are just fine with divorce and that plenty do it. You are peeved because your MM has you believing that she is preventing him from getting a divorce but deep down you must know that's not true. Canadians know how to divorce when they want to.

July 26, 2016

Trust, but verify.

Well, you don't trust him and you may *think* he has no reason to lie, but if he told you the truth of "I'm going to work this job for X number of years to get my business 3000 miles away off and running, then move back there and work tagt business, would you be as open to it?

There's still a desire for him to woo and chase you. In this day and age, women don't play hard to get, so there's not much challenge, not as much pursuit. He "got you" to fall in love with him. That's pretty impressive.

A friend of mine has been legally separated for at least 20 years. His wife has raised their children with a different man, living in the house he bought with her. He has dated extensively and tells his dates, "the bitch won't divorce me." He recently came into some money, an inheritance that the wife doesn't know about. He's had it sitting in a savings account. He has no plans to use it. He's not a traveler, not a hobby buff, has the car and house he wants paid for. The only purpose of that money at his age is to leave it to his children. His kids aren't that interested in him. They are graduated from college and call wife's live in "Papa". He was in their lives since they were young 26 days a month.

Now my friend twists a good lie, but the truth is, for whatever reason, HE is the one who fights divorce. I think it is because he wants to deny her the chance to marry the man she's with.

He is in a city large enough that he is able to date women who don't have any interaction with his wife. He keeps them at arms' length. He dated a friend of mine for many years. It was three years or more before she actually met the kids and even then it was a fluke. He would tell her point blank that on his weekends and his nights during the week, he was NOT answering his phone.

I think a lot of OW wonder about the BS mindset (and vice versa). I find your situation hardly cookie cutter, but it just sounds all so implausible. And that could be because you are leaving out details to keep it anonymous.

Excellent points, thank you. And you're quite right.

Many things would make a lot more sense if I provided more details. My op was pretty long already though and I think I may have been trying people's patience already with so much reading material.

Another thing to keep in mind is that I'm often sitting right beside MM when he's talking with his wife. That gives me some idea what their relationship is like and the sorts of things he tells her. I'm sure I don't hear everything but if reality was that much different from his story there should be some clues as the conversation moves along naturally.

Often at great length. This woman can talk! Lol

July 26, 2016

to be honest - this isn't a thread about a happy OW. it doesn't seem that way; this is a thread about an OW who wants the W to know about the A and wonders why that same W didn't take D-day seriously. let's focus on that, that was your original question.

okay. what do you think will change when his W finds out about the A? do you think she'll divorce him and his stress levels will decrease? what if she wants to stay married - you think that WON'T create additional stress?

why is lying and cheating WORSE than living in an unhappy marriage with someone you feel nothing for emotionally? i just don't get it.

Honestly, I keep flip flopping between thinking she should know, that being the right thing to do. And then worrying that that knowledge will ruin what appears to be a very happy life for her. I don't know what I want. Plus, if the marriage ends and/or the business is shut down, I worry MM won't be able to afford the pleasant lifestyle we're currently enjoying together. I don't need his financial assistance. I do just fine with my own arrangements. But some of those extra trips and other perks are a lot of fun. I contribute towards the fun. But I'm not going to start paying for both of us.

If we knew what she was thinking at least some of the uncertainty would disappear. And if she wants a divorce then at least the process will start marching toward resolution. Sure it'll be stressful for a while. But once the process is over, hopefully it will be over.

July 26, 2016

He has good reason to be stressed as it is REALLY hard to live a double life. When I was in my A the level of stress that I felt as a WS was unbelievable. There were times I wanted to be caught because the lying got to me so much. It was an awful time in my life

I can believe it! Thanks for the reminder.

July 26, 2016

Why do you talk like his wife isn't entitled to any money. In your first post you said her husband supports her. How do you figure? She is working full time at trying to make his business a success for him. Is she supposed to do that and then go beg in the street for a roof over her head? Sounds like you think he should divorce her and take everything.

Also as a fellow Canadian I'm pretty sure you know that Canadians are just fine with divorce and that plenty do it. You are peeved because your MM has you believing that she is preventing him from getting a divorce but deep down you must know that's not true. Canadians know how to divorce when they want to.

I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'm in favour of fairness. She's entitled to half and he's certainly going to throw in some extra to be sure she's taken care of. As he says, she's done nothing wrong.

It's exactly that fairness that has me worried about them getting divorced. As of July 31 the business will finally be in a position to pay W a salary and return some of the cash he's been pouring into the business and into supporting his W's lifestyle. Depending on the details of their circumstances, he is likely to end up poor. For sure by the time he's done paying for lawyers and such. I don't think divorce is a good deal for him or me. The longer a divorce is delayed the more time there is for the business to pay them.

July 26, 2016

I assumed from your first post that this is not your first affair, is it?

I mean, why suddenly worry about the lies and the double life? After all, this is something that is pretty much one of the main factors of an affair, did it not bother you previously? And is it not something you sort of knew about when you decided that you would start seeing MMs? I mean, everything has its perks and its downsides and to live a certain life, one must make peace with all aspects that come with it.

Tbh, when I was an OW, I was satisfied being just that - an OW. Did not think about having an actual relationship with him, did not need anything more that what we shared. And I certainly never beat myself up about whether lying to his wife is good for his health (morally speaking, not my finest moment but I was very young and immature).

This is why I am comfortable telling you that it seems that you are convincing yourself that you don't want him to divorce when in fact, you do want precisely that.

This is the first time an affair has lasted more than a brief period of time. And the first time there have been emotions involved. I satisfied my concerns by keeping things strictly physical and short. What A MM told or didn't tell his W didn't concern me.

Actually on one occasion I was seeing a married man briefly. Before we ever got around to sex his wife found my number and called me. We had a wonderful chat and I shared with her her H's frustrations and how she was driving him away. She was very grateful, changed her attitude and their marriage. Their marriage went from the verge of collapse to excellent.

On many other occasions I chatted at length with married men on the prowl looking for affairs. I learned about their marriage problems and counselled them on how to fix them. Without cheating. I don't know if I prevented any affairs but many of them seemed delighted with my suggestions and assured me they'd try to make things better with their wives.

Even on the occasions I did have PAs I made a point of listening to their marital problems and offered helpful suggestions. I have no way of knowing whether I made much difference. But I sure tried.

I've had a thing about trying to help people ever since I was young. An unconventional way of doing it. But at least it was fun for me too.

July 26, 2016

This is the first time an affair has lasted more than a brief period of time. And the first time there have been emotions involved. I satisfied my concerns by keeping things strictly physical and short. What A MM told or didn't tell his W didn't concern me.

Actually on one occasion I was seeing a married man briefly. Before we ever got around to sex his wife found my number and called me. We had a wonderful chat and I shared with her her H's frustrations and how she was driving him away. She was very grateful, changed her attitude and their marriage. Their marriage went from the verge of collapse to excellent.

On many other occasions I chatted at length with married men on the prowl looking for affairs. I learned about their marriage problems and counselled them on how to fix them. Without cheating. I don't know if I prevented any affairs but many of them seemed delighted with my suggestions and assured me they'd try to make things better with their wives.

Even on the occasions I did have PAs I made a point of listening to their marital problems and offered helpful suggestions. I have no way of knowing whether I made much difference. But I sure tried.

I've had a thing about trying to help people ever since I was young. An unconventional way of doing it. But at least it was fun for me too.

That's so effed up...it serves to prove the point that a married man will seek to soothe his self absorbed ego by looking OUTSIDE the marriage for the solution to problems that MAY be occurring in it!

He shouldn't be discussing his marital woes with anyone but the person he's married to...

July 26, 2016

You are losing me here. In your first post you state that this business is a hobby business and he is keeping it afloat with his job 3000 km away. But here you state if the business she runs shuts down he will be financially strained? Which one is it?

I don't want to come down on you as I was a former WS and also now a BS, so I feel both sides. To give an idea what she is feeling... maybe she was like me. She is so trusting of her husband that when she found out she could not believe it. People who know my H were shocked!!! He is such a sweet man, no one would expect it.

I sense maybe the high opinion of his W bothers you. He holds her on a pedestal and has no problem providing her a business to run and keep her comfortable financially. Do you want all that she has? A man that finds no fault with her and who he financially keeps well.

Plus, if the marriage ends and/or the business is shut down, I worry MM won't be able to afford the pleasant lifestyle we're currently enjoying together.

July 26, 2016

He shouldn't be discussing his marital woes with anyone but the person he's married to...

Marriage counsellors all over the world will be excited to learn their services are no longer needed by anyone.

Actual human men are often kinda dumb. They do stupid things.

July 26, 2016

You are losing me here. In your first post you state that this business is a hobby business and he is keeping it afloat with his job 3000 km away. But here you state if the business she runs shuts down he will be financially strained? Which one is it?

I don't want to come down on you as I was a former WS and also now a BS, so I feel both sides. To give an idea what she is feeling... maybe she was like me. She is so trusting of her husband that when she found out she could not believe it. People who know my H were shocked!!! He is such a sweet man, no one would expect it.

I sense maybe the high opinion of his W bothers you. He holds her on a pedestal and has no problem providing her a business to run and keep her comfortable financially. Do you want all that she has? A man that finds no fault with her and who he financially keeps well.

Sorry, the story is coming out in fragments over the whole thread and is hard to follow. For the past 6 years the business has been paying off a huge mortgage. Between the mortgage and the other bills it has been a money pit. But this month W came into some money and, despite H's protests is putting it into paying off that mortgage. That goes through at the end of his month. Starting next month there's finally going to be some extra money to go around because it's not going into that mortgage payment any more.

Thank you for your insight into the relationship. I think you're right. He is such a nice guy in general people are going to have a really hard time believing he's cheating on his sweet W.

I don't want a single thing she has. I'm set up for my future and I value my independence and pride far too much to ever become dependent on anyone ever again. I lived in a hellish marriage way too long. I take care of me now. I mingle my finances with no one. I take from no one.

July 26, 2016

Marriage counsellors all over the world will be excited to learn their services are no longer needed by anyone.

Actual human men are often kinda dumb. They do stupid things.

A marriage counselor isn't a secret to one of the parties in the marriage. They aren't helping to stab one spouse in the back for their on gratification under the guise of helping. Please don't insult therapy by comparing it to what you're actually doing.

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