Question for OW in Emotional affairs

[merrmeade]

I told WH I want to get a device/software that retrieves deleted text messages so I can see for myself what went on. He does not like that idea. "you'd just take a joke and twist it into something bigger"

I can handle a joke. Believe me, I've imagined much worse so "jokes" would not bother me. I am trying to decide if going behind his back on this would be a good step. obviously, even needing to consider is pathetic.

You know he's lied to you and hasn't owned up to it one iota. So why are you telling him what you want to do to prove his lies? I remember some of the thinking behind this kind of absurd confrontation; I did it, too. Because you used to believe he was truthful with you, you think you'll get him to want to do the right thing now. You can't believe in the willfulness of the deception or the gaslighting. You're projecting your standards onto him and expecting he'll suddenly confess.

 

Isn't going to happen and you're losing your advantage to actually get some real information by talking it over with him. He could have the phone wiped clean.

 

The other thing: Is it okay to go behind his back? I asked this, too. It is so okay because you have no other recourse to find out the truth. And if he's already lied, he's betrayed you, and you have every right and don't need permission to find out.

 

Just be careful. I accidentally copied one file of deleted messages and pasted it on all the rest so that there were no files to read. Didn't matter; there was enough to work with in the emails.

 

There are many programs. Just do the research and follow the steps carefully.

[elaine567]

You know he's lied to you and hasn't owned up to it one iota. So why are you telling him what you want to do to prove his lies? I remember some of the thinking behind this kind of absurd confrontation; I did it, too. Because you used to believe he was truthful with you, you think you'll get him to want to do the right thing now. You can't believe in the willfulness of the deception or the gaslighting. You're projecting your standards onto him and expecting he'll suddenly confess.

 

Isn't going to happen and you're losing your advantage to actually get some real information by talking it over with him. He could have the phone wiped clean.

 

YOU are treating him like a friend and husband, when if you want the truth, then that is, with respect, a stupid strategy.

His agenda is to keep you as much in the dark as he can possibly can about his activities with other women.

His agenda is NOT to come clean, as that is NOT in his best interests, unless his goal is to leave the marriage.

For those who want to stay married then trickle truth is usually the name of the game, and with every new piece of evidence you uncover, comes a new revelation.

 

She is just a coworker.

She is just a friend.

She is lonely and sends lots of texts to everyone.

She is besotted with me.

We have never met outside of work.

We had a coffee once

We used to go to lunch a lot.

There is nothing physical going on.

OK we kissed but just the once.

OK it may have got a little steamy.

We had sex, it meant nothing.

Yes, she was there on that business trip to NY.

...and the one to Florida.

It was just sex though.

It has been going on for 6 months.

Ok, a year.

OK, 2 years.

Yes, she does love me.

Yes, I did tell her I loved her...

[sandylee1]

If I were in the OWs position and nothing was going on, then I would act like a woman and talk to the OP. Clearly stating that I have no interest in her husband apart from the professional relationship. There really isn't a way to argue there is nothing going on here though.

 

A sensible woman who had any respect for you or your marriage, especially one with a partner like the OW would know the level of texting is unacceptable for a MM and yes, you may think becoming her friend was a good move, but they were in deep by then already and simply put .... she snd other OWs in her position really doesn't care about your feelings. If she did she wouldn't do it to begin with.

 

They are both loving the ego strokes and sexual inuendo at the very least, if this hasn't already gone physical.

 

He's worried you'll twist the messages because you know saying something like "I want to get freaky with you" has a million and one meanings doesn't it.

[heartwhole]

We are 15 months from DD and (I thought) have some good ground rules about relationships with members of the opposite sex. And yet this weekend when I was using my husband's iPad, I saw he got a text message from a single woman in his workout group. Yes, it was a group text, but he never mentioned that he was texting friends with her. It turns out that another member of their workout group was thinking about hiring her, but as a married man he didn't want to be talking to her alone, so he included my WH. WH did not mention that the three of them had lunch a month ago.

 

Now he claims that he got "complacent" and that he should have realized how I would feel. I freaked out and cried something awful; this is a woman I don't feel comfortable around because at the Christmas party she sent out a catty vibe and wouldn't make eye contact with me even though I was standing right next to her. So she's been on my radar, which I had mentioned to WH. So for him to claim that this was all innocent and he had no idea I would be uncomfortable with this relationship since other married men were included too is just ridiculous.

 

Anyway, my point in sharing all of this is that as a man who had an affair, WH did not make excuses. He just immediately blocked her number, offered to stop going to his workout group and to have me check his phone every single day, cried and promised to do better, and begged me not to give up on him. It has not been an easy road to get here, and this set our trust back a lot. And no, I don't think there was anything going on with this woman. It's just the principle of it and the fact that he didn't tell me. I share this so you can contrast it with how your husband is acting after three prior affairs (I'm counting this one twice since he supposedly ended it at your behest last year).

 

I don't care if my husband has to tell people, "I had an affair so I can't have female friends." He could have avoided becoming texting/lunch friends with this woman but he didn't because of blah blah blah excuse, so now he has to deal with the weird fallout of suddenly blocking her out of nowhere. Those are the natural consequences of his choices.

 

My WH is far from perfect and clearly still avoids conflict and lies by omission. All I can do is set my boundaries and expectations and leave if he can't meet them. I never thought I'd be "that wife" who is so controlling that her husband can't have innocent friendships, but that's where we are. He's a friendly, flirty extrovert -- once a few years ago he was the subject of a CL "missed connections" from some much younger woman who wrote this lengthy missive about how kind it was when my WH let her stand in front of him at a crowded concert. Back then I just thought, aw, how tragic that this woman misinterpreted his kindness. Now I saw, you know what? I'm not going to live in a world where other women think my husband is hitting on them. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and I was wrong. If he wants to stick around, then he can live in such a way that I have no doubts. Otherwise, it won't work. I won't turn a blind eye.

[LavendarLass]

We are 15 months from DD and (I thought) have some good ground rules about relationships with members of the opposite sex. And yet this weekend when I was using my husband's iPad, I saw he got a text message from a single woman in his workout group. Yes, it was a group text, but he never mentioned that he was texting friends with her. It turns out that another member of their workout group was thinking about hiring her, but as a married man he didn't want to be talking to her alone, so he included my WH. WH did not mention that the three of them had lunch a month ago.

 

Now he claims that he got "complacent" and that he should have realized how I would feel. I freaked out and cried something awful; this is a woman I don't feel comfortable around because at the Christmas party she sent out a catty vibe and wouldn't make eye contact with me even though I was standing right next to her. So she's been on my radar, which I had mentioned to WH. So for him to claim that this was all innocent and he had no idea I would be uncomfortable with this relationship since other married men were included too is just ridiculous.

 

Anyway, my point in sharing all of this is that as a man who had an affair, WH did not make excuses. He just immediately blocked her number, offered to stop going to his workout group and to have me check his phone every single day, cried and promised to do better, and begged me not to give up on him. It has not been an easy road to get here, and this set our trust back a lot. And no, I don't think there was anything going on with this woman. It's just the principle of it and the fact that he didn't tell me. I share this so you can contrast it with how your husband is acting after three prior affairs (I'm counting this one twice since he supposedly ended it at your behest last year).

 

I don't care if my husband has to tell people, "I had an affair so I can't have female friends." He could have avoided becoming texting/lunch friends with this woman but he didn't because of blah blah blah excuse, so now he has to deal with the weird fallout of suddenly blocking her out of nowhere. Those are the natural consequences of his choices.

 

My WH is far from perfect and clearly still avoids conflict and lies by omission. All I can do is set my boundaries and expectations and leave if he can't meet them. I never thought I'd be "that wife" who is so controlling that her husband can't have innocent friendships, but that's where we are. He's a friendly, flirty extrovert -- once a few years ago he was the subject of a CL "missed connections" from some much younger woman who wrote this lengthy missive about how kind it was when my WH let her stand in front of him at a crowded concert. Back then I just thought, aw, how tragic that this woman misinterpreted his kindness. Now I saw, you know what? I'm not going to live in a world where other women think my husband is hitting on them. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and I was wrong. If he wants to stick around, then he can live in such a way that I have no doubts. Otherwise, it won't work. I won't turn a blind eye.

 

This is similar to one of the justifications my WH is using now - he states back in October, when I first found out about this current employee that "I didn't actually delete her contact from my phone! I just said I'd only do group texts with her/rest of my office!". He claims he was "group texting" which included her and then as she and I got friendly, he just didn't see what the harm would be.

 

Now he points out the major "advance" in thinking he's made with "I deleted her as a contact!! I will never text her again!". He has focused on the fact that the CELL PHONE has been the problem with all this. He is too busy and doesn't have the moral lack of fiber to actually do something else. So, if he absolutely doesn't text/takes the cell phone out of the equation, this "won't happen again!!" I am expected to accept this (probably gratefully) and "move forward".

He is meeting with a mentor/friend. He does agree to see an IC.

 

I guess where I am at right now is deciding whether to insist on getting cell phone records. At a minimum, I can get copies of his texting history back last summer, July-October, as that is when things were very active. I really have a feeling just seeing the pattern of texting would tell me a lot. (This is just a text "log", not the actual content of the texts).

I can insist we both get a program to retrieve deleted texts and hold it as a condition of not physically separating as a family at this point.

Or, I can continue to work on counseling, discussion with him and just investigate on my own.

I am not sure which is best route to take.

 

I am worried I'll try to do it on my own and "muck it up" so that I don't get much info and he is somehow alerted by something on his phone.

Argh. As I said, pathetic to even ponder all this.

[LavendarLass]

If I were in the OWs position and nothing was going on, then I would act like a woman and talk to the OP. Clearly stating that I have no interest in her husband apart from the professional relationship. There really isn't a way to argue there is nothing going on here though.

 

A sensible woman who had any respect for you or your marriage, especially one with a partner like the OW would know the level of texting is unacceptable for a MM and yes, you may think becoming her friend was a good move, but they were in deep by then already and simply put .... she snd other OWs in her position really doesn't care about your feelings. If she did she wouldn't do it to begin with.

 

They are both loving the ego strokes and sexual inuendo at the very least, if this hasn't already gone physical.

 

He's worried you'll twist the messages because you know saying something like "I want to get freaky with you" has a million and one meanings doesn't it.

 

Yes, exactly.

[LavendarLass]

Trickle truth describes what he does exactly.

 

Now he just twists around, "friendly texting that got out of hand". When I ask what that means, he just says, "We were just talking too much!". When I ask what about he says "I can't remember every text! Texts are gone the minute you send them!"

When I say I just want a "sense" of what this was - sexting, just flirting, lots of flattery, he tries to just stick to the "we just told each other all about our day - she talks a lot so there's a lot of texts".

When I point out no person cares anything about a "friend" enough to take the time to "hear about their day" nonstop, 50-100x per day, "That doesn't make sense" he really doesn't have a good answer. He is adamant they did NOT discuss ME, did not talk about a future together.

 

I've told him what I imagine is already bad, so actually seeing the texts, if "just friendly" cannot make things worse.

 

I hate this.

[ShatteredLady]

I was in your situation & "just reading the texts" can make it a lot, lot worse. Those words are forever forged into your brain ready to trigger you at any moment.

 

For some reason the dumb "What are you wearing?" every bloody day & "the way the sun twinkles in your eyes" yuck!!!!!!!!

 

Do I regret reading them? Hell no!!!!! The TRUTH is more important. He had me actually believing that they were 'Just friends' when in truth he had dragged his ex mistress (the worst time of my life by far!!) back into our family & ripped my heart out.

 

I'm sorry that this is happening to you. It's crippling.

[Steen719]

I was in your situation & "just reading the texts" can make it a lot, lot worse. Those words are forever forged into your brain ready to trigger you at any moment.

 

For some reason the dumb "What are you wearing?" every bloody day & "the way the sun twinkles in your eyes" yuck!!!!!!!!

 

Do I regret reading them? Hell no!!!!! The TRUTH is more important. He had me actually believing that they were 'Just friends' when in truth he had dragged his ex mistress (the worst time of my life by far!!) back into our family & ripped my heart out.

 

I'm sorry that this is happening to you. It's crippling.

 

 

I had forgotten this, but my ex-H told his MOW that she "glowed" - puke! Really? I saw the picture he was referring to. She didn't look all glowy to me. So complimentary of her while they sat online messaging each, her with her H next to her in bed and me, working my a** off in the next room. Disgusting.

 

Regrets about looking. NO, NO, NO. I would have NEVER known because the coward would have never told me. Do what you have to do to discover the truth. 2000 texts to the same woman in one month is insane. Even 100 is too many or 50 - it is just nuts. I am so sorry, but this, my dear, is just crap from him and he shovels it, hoping you will not notice.

 

Good luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

 

I hate this.

 

Then stop it. Tell him what you need - logs or the texts themselves - and then let him get them. Tell him your relationship is on hold until he does and the future hangs in the balance, non-negotiable and not up for discussion.

 

If he won't produce - or if he's hiding that much - you have your answer...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lois_Griffin]

This current situation is just more of the same crap you've dealt with since you married this guy.

 

You married a serial cheater.

 

There's ALWAYS going to be a 'someone' that you're going to ask him about and a 'someone' he's going to lie to you about.

 

Like he's doing now.

 

Like he's always done.

 

You're getting all lost in the details of his latest bullsh*t lies with his latest OW because you don't want to look at the BIGGER picture. And the BIGGER picture is that she's just one in a long string of many.

[LavendarLass]

I was in your situation & "just reading the texts" can make it a lot, lot worse. Those words are forever forged into your brain ready to trigger you at any moment.

 

For some reason the dumb "What are you wearing?" every bloody day & "the way the sun twinkles in your eyes" yuck!!!!!!!!

 

Do I regret reading them? Hell no!!!!! The TRUTH is more important. He had me actually believing that they were 'Just friends' when in truth he had dragged his ex mistress (the worst time of my life by far!!) back into our family & ripped my heart out.

 

I'm sorry that this is happening to you. It's crippling.

 

SL - this is heartbreaking and makes me sad. Why are people so cruel to each other? Why not a little common decency let alone a modicum of concern for a spouse? Why????

I am thankful we can all support each other. It helps

[Mrs. John Adams]

Because some of us become so self centered...that no one...our family...our friends...can stop the madness.

 

Infidelity is one of the most cruel things we as spouses can do. Few...can understand the true meaning...the true impact of what we as cheaters have done...to our spouse...to our families...to ourselves.

 

I am 33 years past my infidelity...I STILL see the impact...the destruction.

 

33 years...I still see the sadness in his eyes...I still see the insecurity...the pain.

 

No matter how hard I try...no matter how much i work....it will always be there.

 

I destroyed my husbands world...and even though he loves me and i love him...what i did to him will NEVER disappear.

 

Infidelity is not a game...it is not something you get over...it is something you have to learn to live with....and as long as you are willing to live with it...as long as your spouse does the best he can do to help you...the fact is...it NEVER goes away.

[LavendarLass]

It doesn't matter whether this is a friendship or not- you're uncomfortable with it and he has a history of affairs. So shut it down. He can have men as friends, because his lack of boundaries mean that female friends are a big risk, at least for awhile. If he's adamant about keeping this friend, and you don't want to fight him on it, talk to her.

 

My husband had an EA, but was also talking with a "friend" on facebook. Lots of it was friend stuff, but a good portion was about all the men that done her wrong. How all she did was give and give, and the only thing she did wrong was love too much. My husband loved the attention, telling her she didn't deserve it, etc, in each session talking much more to her than he does to me in conversation.

 

Check these out:

 

Pimping Tenderness

 

Ego Kibbles

 

Maybe your husband isn't LOOKING for an affair, but he's actively courting it. He's putting meat in his pockets and expecting dogs not to follow him down the block. I advise shutting it down, but I'd leave him if he kept engaging in those troublesome behaviors after already having had affairs.

 

Holy, I just now had time to read your links. The "Pimping tenderness" captures what is going on with WH EXACTLY! He lives his life at work as if on stage - it's like he has a certain persona he puts out. With almost all women. His office workers are all women. I read him this article. He has a hard time seeing it.

He spends his time trying to be the "funny, sarcastic" guy with a dose of flirting thrown in. I have pointed out to him if you keep "throwing it out there" eventually you get a bite. He has focused on the cell phone as the vehicle of each affair and figures he's in the clear now since he is committing to not texting any women. I realize that is a limited unenlightened view of things. He also needs to put up some decent boundaries and avoid the risk in the first place.

 

Some days I am feeling strong and moving along with my life, figuring I can take whatever happens and take my time figuring things out. Other days I dwell incessantly on the enormity of the problems and the low likelihood that these things can be remedied. Constant anxiety in the pit of my stomach.

[LavendarLass]

I have decided it will take some time and work to figure out the final outcome here. I am going to IC. WH is meeting with a friend/mentor (he found their first meeting helpful). He has agreed to set up IC too.

 

I am decided if/how to retrieve deleted text messages. Not sure it will be helpful or change anything in any way.

 

I am still contemplating if I should have some interaction with OW in any way. I was told she's "looking for another job", but have yet to hear anything more about it. I have told WH it is not his role to be supportive to OW in this situation, so I am not wanting him to have a blow-by-blow account of how the "job search" is going. As it may take awhile (or may never happen) I am wondering if some/all of the "involved parties" should meet to discuss how things stand going forward (i.e., OW and her SO, WH, myself). Or, just continue to ignore her

[elaine567]

Who is this friend/mentor?

He could be a cheater too, and they are merely swapping stories...

very helpful indeed.

[Birdies]

This is how my affair with a coworker started (we were both married).

 

ESPECIALLY given your husband's history of infidelity, you are well within your rights to a) ask him to stop such completely over the top texting habits with another woman and b) monitor his phone activity. He should be trying to prove himself and his loyalty to you constantly, rather than acting so sketchily and feeling indignant that you (rightfully) don't trust him.