1.5 years post breakup. Another Break Up With New Girl

[Kona123]

First off, I've known of and followed this forum ever since I got dumped by my ex in the beginning of last year. I'll link that thread below and you can check it out if you'd like. My and her never got back together. In fact, nothing really happened other than her following my social media at one point and us meeting up for lunch a couple of times almost a year after the breakup. I don't have feelings for the girl anymore, but I still care for her. So I guess you can take this as evidence that you can get over someone, no matter how incomprehensible that might seem (trust me, I was in a very, very bad spot mentally after the breakup).

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/513541-broke-no-contact-didn-t-go-well

 

 

Well, I'm back, and with a new story. To preface, I run a small service-based business. I go to a specific location regularly, and one day this very attractive girl waved me over to her. I had no idea who she was, and frankly I thought she was waving at someone behind me. Long story short she heard of me through a mutual friend and thought I may be able to help her out with what I do professionally. I said absolutely, so we exchanged numbers and went along our business. The next day I saw her at the same spot, and we ended up talking with each other for nearly 4 hours. Next day, same thing. This wasn't normal, and I got the sense she was hitting on me.

 

Eventually she asked me out to eat in a round about way, and that date ultimately led to me being at her place and sleeping with her (she came on to me). This was new to me, as I never had one night stands. And this girl is mindblowingly gorgeous. Like supermodel gorgeous. For a few months afterward, we were in a limbo between working together professionally and also being romantically involved. I stupidly would try to convince her to be in a relationship, but to no avail. She always said she's not ready to date. So we'd always be in this on and off FWB-esque arrangement.

 

There was a ton of drama. Between her randomly telling me she wanted nothing to do with me, and then inviting me over, having sex, then being told she wants nothing to do with me again. To her crying after sex being she was a victim of domestic abuse before and for some reason started thinking about it, etc.

 

Anyway, it got to the point where nearly one year had passed since us beginning our interactions. There were never really clear definitions as to what we were (I've always read to avoid the title game unless the woman brings it up via Corey Wayne's advice), so I always did my best to keep a cool head even if I suspected she was talking to other guys. She could have her pick of the litter at any time, so this was very hard. However, the signs were there that she was in love with me. She told me "I love you" literally every day. Many times elaborating on how much she loves and adores me. The sex was amazing, we would frequently stay at each other's places, and there were many very deep conversations which involved her balling her eyes out explaining her past to me. For all practical purposes, we were *dating* even if there wasn't a title.

 

 

But the fact that there wasn't a title blurred everything. She would always be hanging at bars on weekends, and we would frequently get in fights about small communication errors between us (I'm not talking to her enough, etc). Usually about once per week. Several times this lead to us not talking for a week or so, then either she would come back to me or I would go back to her. Aside from one week during this whole thing, she always said she didn't want to be exclusive. Which obviously implies we can sleep with other people. For a while I told her I wouldn't do that, as I'm a proponent of monogamous relationships and will remain in one even if it doesn't have that title or if she's not doing the same.

 

Well, there was a big fight which I assumed meant we were no longer an item. During the two week period of not talking I hooked up with someone and regretted it terribly. I stupidly went to her place unannounced and confessed this to her. And it absolutely crushed her. She said things like "I thought we only did that, etc." even though SHE said she didn't want to be exclusive. So I was extremely confused. She held this over my head for months, always treating me differently and saying she could never date someone who wasn't exclusive to her. Come to find out a couple months ago, she was hooking up with someone at the same time I did and she flat out lied to me about it for MONTHS. Pretending as if she did nothing wrong and I was a POS. So I called her out on that one day, and she didn't know what to do. I caught her in a massive lie and her response was initially to deny, then to play the victim card of saying "obviously you hate me and will never talk to me again, etc.", and ultimately she apologized and I forgave her.

 

Towards the end of all of this I was very on edge. At one point she told me she was hanging out with a friend on a weekend I asked if she had plans. Turns out it was a guy, and she ended up staying at his house, making out with him, and sleeping in his bed. There were also numerous other people she had made out with while we were hanging out. Anyway, I got the sense she was still talking to the aforementioned first guy she hung out with. So, I did some snooping (I know, HUGE violation of privacy). I was crushed. The texts contained tons of kissy face emojis, flirting, some nude pictures of her (which she told me she only sent to me), her asking him to hangout, talking about their prior hangouts, etc.

 

On one hand, I was infuriated. On the other, I knew I couldn't be mad because we weren't exclusive and it was totally within her rights to do this. So I kept fighting the internal battle of sticking around until this other guy fades out, or accepting that this wasn't going where I wanted it to and bailing before I got even deeper.

 

Well, a couple weeks passed and we hadn't had sex or really hung out (NOT normal). She would still hit me up saying she loves me, asking how my day went, etc. Rather than go off on her, I decided I would pursue other women, since that was part of our agreement, and it would help me not feel so bent out of shape over everything she did. So I did, I started talking to a new girl. The original girl and I went out to lunch a few weeks ago, and on the way back she saw my phone light up with a text from new girl. "Who's that", I responded with her name. "Oh nice, a new client?" She said. I said no. She asked if we were talking, I said yes. Then she got silent. When I got to her place to drop her off, she went off on me asking why I would kiss her if I'm talking to other people, etc.

 

 

She later called me that night apologizing for her reaction, and said I can totally talk to other people if I want. But that we need to stop doing what we're doing and just be friends, because "we're obviously dating other people, and it's just going to create a huge mess for everyone". I then called her on the fact that she

 

1) Doesn't want to be exclusive with anyone

2.) Doesn't want to be inexclusive (she also said she doesn't "just hook up" with people)

 

Yet she's dating other men. So none of what she's saying tracks. She responded with "I don't know what I want. I thought I would be okay with this but obviously I'm not." So I told her I'm not okay with being just friends, and that if she changes her mind to get in touch with me. The problem was, she wouldn't accept that. She would say "why would I ever want to date you if you're just going to walk out of my life the moment you don't get what you want?", or flipping it and saying "No, YOU get in contact with me when you're ready to be my friend.". She even said she felt out situation had transistioned into more of a friendship lately since we weren't hanging out or having sex (because she would never accept dates to hangout). She even told me she was deliberately slowing things down between us because of this other guy.

 

So I cut off contact at that point. But struggled to stick to it. I still responded to her daily "I love you" texts. Then one day I just said "fu** this", and ghosted her. Over the course of two days I didn't respond to 4 texts and a phone call. Then on day 3 she panicked and sent a long text about how she doesn't deserve this, how she's given me the freedom to see other people if I want, that she told me where she's at, etc. after not responding she spam phone called me 6 times. I eventually called back because I knew I had to speak to her at some point. I ended up at her place talking about everything.

 

I stuck to my guns saying "this is not working for me, and it's clearly not working for you. I don't desire to push you into a relationship, but at this point we've been doing this for almost a year. You treat me like a BF much of the time, we do couples stuff, you tell your closest friends you're in love with me, etc. at this point it's no longer "jumping into" a relationship. You're not okay with being inexclusive, which became clear recently. But you're not okay with being exclusive, either. I want to be your romantic partner, not your friend and ultimately your safety net/second choice. So I'm choosing to remove myself from this and move on".

 

She kept trying to convince me to be her friend, but I was firm. When she realized I wasn't budging the tears started flowing. She cried harder than I've ever seen anyone cry. Begging me not to leave her, saying she'll do anything (aside from the one thing I want), saying how much she loves me, etc. she told me "it's not going to work. I'm going to come back to you. And not because I'm in a healthy place to date you, but because I'm fu**ed up over you and I miss you. And it's not going to work out. Please don't leave me"

 

Everyone in her life has abandoned her, and she never really had parents growing up. She has serious abandonment issues, so it hurt me to know how much I was hurting her by doing this. It was the saddest thing ever looking at her as she trembled and balled her eyes out.

 

That night I ended up caving and agreed to be friends with her (stupid, I know). She thanked me profusely, hugged me a ton, said how much she loves me, etc. then she kissed me, and we ended up having sex (because that's what friends do, right?)

 

The next morning I woke up and felt empty. I knew couldn't be friends with her. And I wasn't waiting around until this other guy fizzled out. She was telling me the night before how if we're meant to be together it will happen, regardless of how many people each of us date, etc. but I sent her a text telling her I can't do this, telling her I loved her, but that I couldn't have her in my life at this point.

 

She called from work immediately, asking me to calm down and not make a rash decision. Saying I can't just cut her out of my life. That she's going to keep hitting me up because I'm her best friend, and she loves me a lot, etc. I told her that unless she wants to talk about being together to not hit me up.

 

I went NC. Two days later she called me twice at 3 AM (post-night out at the bars), telling me how much she loves me. Asking how long it will be until I can be her friend, etc. I got off the phone as soon as I could and avoided giving her any information as to what I've been up to.

 

Well, 3 days has passed since then and I haven't heard a peep. I had her on IG, and would see her liking guys stuff so I had to unfollow for my own sake. I also noticed that she was listening to super depressing break up music the other night at like 2 AM (her Facebook says what she listens to on Spotify).

 

Anyway, I'm really messed up over this. This is literally one of the most gorgeous girls I've ever met in my life, and we have amazing chemistry. But at the end of the day she won't commit. I would hear stories from mutual friends about how she would tell them how nice I am, etc. but that she just can't bring herself to date me. She doesn't have "that" feeling about me. The thing is her last two relationships have been utter sh**. So obviously her intuition isn't very helpful.

 

This girl has balled her eyes out telling me how much she loves me, called me babe/baby, taken pictures with me and repeatedly sent them to me saying how cute we are (never posting them publicly), stayed at my place tons of times, had sex with me hundreds of times, talked about how she's considered wanting to move in with me, etc.

 

 

I can't go back to her. I've told her at least 7 times in the past that I'm walking away, and 1-2 weeks later I would always come back and we would be in the same confusing arrangement. So at this point she doesn't take my word seriously or respect me, and feels she can have me at any point in time. So the ONLY way I see this working out in my favor is to ignore her completely unless she makes a very deliberate effort to work things out.

 

She's had a rough life. Doesn't really have any close friends she can talk to (only one that gives horrendous life advice). I was the closest person to her, and the most stable thing in her life. She seems to have a mixture of borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder, but I don't want to play armchair psychologist too much. The reality is I love this girl, and I KNOW we would be good together, because it has happened in the past. Nearly all of our arguments came up because of the confusion of what's going on between us.

 

I know NC is not supposed to be used as a tactic to get her to agree to my terms, but I'm in the stubborn phase where no matter how much I tell myself or others it's for me- it's largely for her. And I know that passes, but for now the goal is to get her to agree to my terms (bring on the flaming, lol). I'm trying my best to get out and do things, stay on top of work, etc. but it's so hard. I get in bed at 6 AM, wake up at 1 PM, and have a pit in my stomach.

 

Again, I'm on day 5 of NC. On day two she called me at 3 AM and we had a brief conversation. What do I do moving forward when she hits me up? Ignore the phone call entirely? Ignore it and call back a couple hours later? Answer it and be polite?

 

I'm just not sure she's going to come out with a full fledged "I messed up, I really want to be with you, etc". So I don't want to over-ignore her and ruin the possibility of us getting back together. Even though I know on an intellectual level that it's likely she'll want me even more the more I ignore her.

 

 

 

Well, that's all for now. Sorry for the novel, but honestly this is the most distilled I could make it without missing out on major points. Ask any questions, and I'd love to hear your thoughts/advice.

[BelleSkye]

Narcissistic b*tch....that chick.

 

Are you only putting up with all this nonsense (i.e. energy into understanding her scummy actions and words) because she is "hot"?

 

Man up.

[Kona123]

Narcissistic b*tch....that chick.

 

Are you only putting up with all this nonsense (i.e. energy into understanding her scummy actions and words) because she is "hot"?

 

Man up.

 

If I'm being completely honest with myself, part of the reason I put up with it is because she is drop dead gorgeous. However, that is not the first, second, third, or even fifth reason I'm doing this. I'm doing it because I genuinely want to be with her.

[BelleSkye]

Is there any chance of you being attracted to just a normal / ordinary girl?

 

I think you need to do No Contact with this current girl, give yourself time to reset and start seeing other girls. I believe that there are more good girls out there than guys - so to me - moving on seems easier for you.

[Kona123]

Is there any chance of you being attracted to just a normal / ordinary girl?

 

I think you need to do No Contact with this current girl, give yourself time to reset and start seeing other girls. I believe that there are more good girls out there than guys - so to me - moving on seems easier for you.

 

That's the plan. I absolutely refuse to get in contact with her, and in confident I can avoid doing that. The issue, as I outline at the end of my first post, is what to reasonably expect when she gets in touch.

 

Also, is this a classic case of GIGS?

 

I don't have trouble talking with, hanging out with, or hooking up with girls. That's just isn't particularly desirable right now. If you check out my first thread about my ex dumping me, I slept with a girl shortly after and made my emotional roller coaster far worse.

[tomatome]

Man, reading this I can't help thinking "stop thinking with your d***." And I mean this in the nicest way possible. I don't blame you for sticking it out (sorry, unintended bad pun). As I said in another thread dating someone 'hot' validates our social existence and makes us feel better about ourselves. Like really better; I have been guilty of this too.

 

Your girlfriend does not have GIGs, she sounds emotionally and mentally unstable. I am not a medical professional, but you might search around here for similar issues. Do NOT try to psychoanalyze her or try to help her; this is not your responsibility and you are not qualified.

 

Your higher consciousness serves to put order to the mess that is your emotions. While it is ok to feel and emotions are quite important, your higher consciousness is telling you a.) you can't be friends; b.) this is not the kind of relationship you want with this person (do not negotiate, maintain your boundaries); and c.) you had better remove her from your life. Your higher consciousness is right; listen to it.

 

Search for my sad story. Even this past Christmas as we were having a great time, a nagging voice was telling me to run. Heck, I had this voice two years prior! It didn't end well and I wish I had listened.

[lil hoodlum]

She sounds like she may have Boarderline Personality Disorder. BPD

 

 

 

Read up on it. I used to date someone very briefly who acted very similar.

[SevenCity]

First off, that is one HELL of a story!

 

As much as I would like for you to work things out with this girl it's impossible. This girl is like a drug to you (all the ones you love are but she's more like crack cocain mixed with meth).

 

From reading your story you sound like an intelligent mature guy. Unfortunately you are thinking with your heart, not your head.

 

What could this possibly be if you were long term? Wondering if your wife is banging another guy, wondering if she is going to leave, wondering if she is going to come back. What kind of life is that?

 

Funny thing about guys is when we get drama from women our reaction can be to shut it down or leave (smart), or get roped into it. (Not smart).

 

You have to be honest with yourself. Unless she gets a severe blow to the head she's not going change who she is. She actually might get worse.

 

Leaving a hot woman is a tough call. Leaving one you love is the hardest. But this girl can and will destroy you if you let her. Don't let her.

 

Block her number and texts, don't follow her on social media, don't run into her. Just run.

[Kona123]

She sounds like she may have Boarderline Personality Disorder. BPD

 

 

 

Read up on it. I used to date someone very briefly who acted very similar.

 

Funny enough, many of my friends have a good eye for psychological disorders. And in the first few months of us interacting, one of my close friends was basically like "Dude, she has BPD. All of the signs are there."

 

I refused to accept it because she had these moments of clarity and introspection, where she could perceive why she was behaving the way she was behaving. And she would apologize profusely.

 

To my knowledge, her real father was never around. Her mother also committed suicide around mid childhood, and she was basically her mothers caretaker as she struggled with addiction. In other words, she basically had the perfect circumstances to end up with serious psychological damage. Both of her prior relationships were also extremely dysfunctional. In one she was beaten and degraded, and the other was peppered with arguments, codependency, etc.

 

She does drugs, as well. I remember one time, she was particularly distraught and went on a weekend party/drug binge. I took care of her because I was terrified what she took could kill her (nothing like heroin, meth, etc.). This was the first time she did this in the year I knew her, but it let me know something was really not ok inside of her.

 

While much of this video is juvenile, she literally displayed all of these characteristics. I vividly remember her saying things like "Please don't hurt me" and "Please don't leave me" when we were having sex months ago. I was extremely put off by it, but never really looked into it and just brushed it off.

 

[Kona123]

First off, that is one HELL of a story!

 

As much as I would like for you to work things out with this girl it's impossible. This girl is like a drug to you (all the ones you love are but she's more like crack cocain mixed with meth).

 

From reading your story you sound like an intelligent mature guy. Unfortunately you are thinking with your heart, not your head.

 

What could this possibly be if you were long term? Wondering if your wife is banging another guy, wondering if she is going to leave, wondering if she is going to come back. What kind of life is that?

 

Funny thing about guys is when we get drama from women our reaction can be to shut it down or leave (smart), or get roped into it. (Not smart).

 

You have to be honest with yourself. Unless she gets a severe blow to the head she's not going change who she is. She actually might get worse.

 

Leaving a hot woman is a tough call. Leaving one you love is the hardest. But this girl can and will destroy you if you let her. Don't let her.

 

Block her number and texts, don't follow her on social media, don't run into her. Just run.

 

 

 

You have no idea. What I laid out here was hardly a fraction of the odd and frustrating experiences I had. She is like a drug to me, and I'm fully aware of it. It's like a withdrawal being without her.

 

I'm not exactly sure what it would be. Obviously I *want* to believe it would be amazing, but I know that's only a partial truth, if a truth at all.

 

Despite the fact that she's already messed around with other guys physically and emotionally, I'm crippled by the thought of her being with someone else. Then I remind myself that even if she finds someone else, one of two things will happen:

 

1) This person is either not going to be able to, or not going to be willing to, put up with her sh**.

 

2) This person is simply not a fit mate (as most men aren't, lol). As I said, she is drop dead gorgeous (no exaggeration), and tends to attract d-bags.

 

She would always tell me I'm not the guys she usually goes after and all of this. I wasn't a pushover, but I certainly was no match for the bad treatment she took in her prior relationships.

 

It's so fu**ing hard. And I know I'm not stupid. I know that if any one of my close friends came to me with this story I would tell them to run for the hills. But there's a crutch. I love this girl, and I've been through so much with her.

[SevenCity]

You have no idea. What I laid out here was hardly a fraction of the odd and frustrating experiences I had. She is like a drug to me, and I'm fully aware of it. It's like a withdrawal being without her.

 

I'm not exactly sure what it would be. Obviously I *want* to believe it would be amazing, but I know that's only a partial truth, if a truth at all.

 

Despite the fact that she's already messed around with other guys physically and emotionally, I'm crippled by the thought of her being with someone else. Then I remind myself that even if she finds someone else, one of two things will happen:

 

1) This person is either not going to be able to, or not going to be willing to, put up with her sh**.

 

2) This person is simply not a fit mate (as most men aren't, lol). As I said, she is drop dead gorgeous (no exaggeration), and tends to attract d-bags.

 

She would always tell me I'm not the guys she usually goes after and all of this. I wasn't a pushover, but I certainly was no match for the bad treatment she took in her prior relationships.

 

It's so fu**ing hard. And I know I'm not stupid. I know that if any one of my close friends came to me with this story I would tell them to run for the hills. But there's a crutch. I love this girl, and I've been through so much with her.

 

We've all done stupid things for love. I'm doing it now.

 

But, there comes a point where enough is enough. Love is a wonderful powerful emotion when it is going well. When it sours, it can literally break you, destroy you, and have never ending impacts THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

 

As much as people here say they found love again, I wonder how many went into it like they did the first time? I know I cant.

 

Now picture this hot mess going on for years. What do you think that will do to you?

 

Do you think this could ever be normal?

[Sunkissedpatio]

Don't mean to make you the "fall guy" for what I am about to say but I do see this a lot on this forum and I experience it when I give my girlfriends dating advice when they ask for it as well.

 

In reading your story it looks like you have fallen victim to all the PUA and "Cosmo" type advice on how to get game. And what I mean by that is that your "relationship" with this woman reads like a bad "relationship guru" advice website in terms of all the things you did wrong to follow the guideline of "playing it cool"

 

It's one thing to play it cool at the beginning while you are trying to get to know someone, to create enough space to give yourself time to see what you feel and what you want out of a relationship but this idea that you spent an entire year "playing it cool" catering to this woman's whims is really the issue here. You focused so much energy on not rocking the boat and on playing by her rules that you both ended up in limbo with neither sides having your needs met (well mostly you - she sounds like "general confusion and disorientation" is her resting state) .

 

 

Personally, reading what you wrote about this woman I tend to side with what Belleskye said, sorry she is your love interest but she certainly sounds like a narcissitic b@$ch. But that's her problem.

 

Anyway, it got to the point where nearly one year had passed since us beginning our interactions. There were never really clear definitions as to what we were (I've always read to avoid the title game unless the woman brings it up via Corey Wayne's advice), so I always did my best to keep a cool head even if I suspected she was talking to other guys. She could have her pick of the litter at any time, so this was very hard. However, the signs were there that she was in love with me. She told me "I love you" literally every day. Many times elaborating on how much she loves and adores me. The sex was amazing, we would frequently stay at each other's places, and there were many very deep conversations which involved her balling her eyes out explaining her past to me. For all practical purposes, we were *dating* even if there wasn't a title.

 

 

HUGE mistake! Following any self-professed-relationship-expert's advice online, or wherever you found this tool. Once you have started seeing someone frequently you have every right to define what the relationship should look like TO YOU. You left the ball entirely on her court and this is where it lead you: NOWHERE.

 

Yes, she told you she "loved you" and perhaps she did have feelings for you, but love for her clearly means going out on weekends alone, playing the filed, and keeping you on a very loose rope to have when there is no other option on the horizon. Is that what love means to you? Apparently not.

 

Now, that may very well work for the two of you, but there was no discussion of that. In the least, you should have stopped playing it cool and expressed to her fairly early on when you saw consistent interest from her what your needs would be going forward, and that is how you determine what kind of relationship you are in or if you even will have a relationship.

 

But the fact that there wasn't a title blurred everything. She would always be hanging at bars on weekends, and we would frequently get in fights about small communication errors between us (I'm not talking to her enough, etc). Usually about once per week. Several times this lead to us not talking for a week or so, then either she would come back to me or I would go back to her. Aside from one week during this whole thing, she always said she didn't want to be exclusive. Which obviously implies we can sleep with other people. For a while I told her I wouldn't do that, as I'm a proponent of monogamous relationships and will remain in one even if it doesn't have that title or if she's not doing the same.

 

So you were a FWB with all the shtty parts of an exclusive long term rel. WOW you really got the short end of the stick!

 

Ask yourself this: Why did you put up with so little and invest so much? If you felt she was way out of your league and this is what prompted you to expect so little in return then you had two options:

 

1. Get out because she was not someone you would ever feel confident enough to be around

 

2. Believe that you had captivated her enough that you had every right to set your boundaries and lay out your expectations at the expense of potentially never seeing her again.

 

Both options require you to sit and believe in yourself and have the confidence to be with this type of woman.

 

As the cliche goes, "hindsight is 20/20" your looking back now should clearly detail where you ended up selling yourself short. Not sure how things will pan out with her going forward but unless you are willing to put your foot right down and stop listening to her words, paying attention to her actions, and allowing yourself to have you needs met by a woman (and by this I mean stop playing games and playing it cool and put yourself ALL OUT there and go for what you want and need, you will end up in a limbo situation like this that is too confusing to make sense of let alone fix.

 

Please stop following guides that tell you to play games, we are all human and we all want the same things. We want to be respected, loved, cared for, we want to love share and experience great experiences with those we love and if you need to play games or "play" anything to keep someone then you lost them before you even started.

 

Remember that! People who are worth your time are people who will not entertain bullsht games to keep them interested, you and who you are should be enough.

 

Games only work on those who are mildly interested in us. Why would you want to be with someone who is only mildly interested in you?

 

I wish you the best and hope you will reflect and find what makes you happiest.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[LostOnes05]

Man, man, man...this is kinda how a girl I dated acted. I was her "one" and she loved me etc. This was pure crap, because she started arguments from nice things I did for her. I called her out on this several times, she would apologize or come up with some illogical reason why she was right. Similarly to you, she love bombed me and then didn't want to commit fully...remember she said I was the one for her right? Also, had the conversation about people always leaving her life. I got the feeling she was probably cheating.

 

Now, think about why all her past relationships are crap...it's her. She will always be the victim, or initiate the push or pull method on you to make you bounce back like a rubber band. She feeds her ego through having several partners and the ones that see through her crap get her version of "friendship". She wants you around to be an orbiter until/if she is ever ready, she won't have far to look. Best thing to do is cut her off, STOP HAVING SEX WITH HER, and move on. Trust me she will move on with ease. She just wants to be able to say you're just like the other guys that leave her, BECAUSE SHE LIKES ATTENTION AND DRAMA. She's gonna make your life miserable if you don't cut her out.

 

Best of luck!

[Downtown]

She seems to have a mixture of borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder....

Kona, I was married to a BPDer for 15 years. If you're interested in learning how to spot the symptoms, an easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in GoBroncs' Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Kona.

[Kona123]

Don't mean to make you the "fall guy" for what I am about to say but I do see this a lot on this forum and I experience it when I give my girlfriends dating advice when they ask for it as well.

 

In reading your story it looks like you have fallen victim to all the PUA and "Cosmo" type advice on how to get game. And what I mean by that is that your "relationship" with this woman reads like a bad "relationship guru" advice website in terms of all the things you did wrong to follow the guideline of "playing it cool"

 

It's one thing to play it cool at the beginning while you are trying to get to know someone, to create enough space to give yourself time to see what you feel and what you want out of a relationship but this idea that you spent an entire year "playing it cool" catering to this woman's whims is really the issue here. You focused so much energy on not rocking the boat and on playing by her rules that you both ended up in limbo with neither sides having your needs met (well mostly you - she sounds like "general confusion and disorientation" is her resting state) .

 

 

Personally, reading what you wrote about this woman I tend to side with what Belleskye said, sorry she is your love interest but she certainly sounds like a narcissitic b@$ch. But that's her problem.

 

 

 

 

HUGE mistake! Following any self-professed-relationship-expert's advice online, or wherever you found this tool. Once you have started seeing someone frequently you have every right to define what the relationship should look like TO YOU. You left the ball entirely on her court and this is where it lead you: NOWHERE.

 

Yes, she told you she "loved you" and perhaps she did have feelings for you, but love for her clearly means going out on weekends alone, playing the filed, and keeping you on a very loose rope to have when there is no other option on the horizon. Is that what love means to you? Apparently not.

 

Now, that may very well work for the two of you, but there was no discussion of that. In the least, you should have stopped playing it cool and expressed to her fairly early on when you saw consistent interest from her what your needs would be going forward, and that is how you determine what kind of relationship you are in or if you even will have a relationship.

 

 

 

So you were a FWB with all the shtty parts of an exclusive long term rel. WOW you really got the short end of the stick!

 

Ask yourself this: Why did you put up with so little and invest so much? If you felt she was way out of your league and this is what prompted you to expect so little in return then you had two options:

 

1. Get out because she was not someone you would ever feel confident enough to be around

 

2. Believe that you had captivated her enough that you had every right to set your boundaries and lay out your expectations at the expense of potentially never seeing her again.

 

Both options require you to sit and believe in yourself and have the confidence to be with this type of woman.

 

As the cliche goes, "hindsight is 20/20" your looking back now should clearly detail where you ended up selling yourself short. Not sure how things will pan out with her going forward but unless you are willing to put your foot right down and stop listening to her words, paying attention to her actions, and allowing yourself to have you needs met by a woman (and by this I mean stop playing games and playing it cool and put yourself ALL OUT there and go for what you want and need, you will end up in a limbo situation like this that is too confusing to make sense of let alone fix.

 

Please stop following guides that tell you to play games, we are all human and we all want the same things. We want to be respected, loved, cared for, we want to love share and experience great experiences with those we love and if you need to play games or "play" anything to keep someone then you lost them before you even started.

 

Remember that! People who are worth your time are people who will not entertain bullsht games to keep them interested, you and who you are should be enough.

 

Games only work on those who are mildly interested in us. Why would you want to be with someone who is only mildly interested in you?

 

I wish you the best and hope you will reflect and find what makes you happiest.

 

First off, thank you for the lengthy reply. I don't feel I've necessarily fallen victim to the PUA community. In fact, I largely despise the approaches used by the PUA community which prey on women who are wounded, essentially. I brought up Corey in case anyone could relate with his outlook on female psychology and relationships. I feel he's fundamentally different from the PUA community, and he explicitly says he wants nothing to do with that group, including being tossed into their category of self help coaches.

 

However, you hit the next point spot on, which is that I took the "play it cool" approach wayyyyyyy too far, and didn't know any better. I always thought if I could just make it another month it would happen. Or that I had reset the clock because of something dumb I had done, so I just had to let her interest level rise enough to make it happen. In retrospect, I should have known. There wouldn't have been any of what felt like trying to win a war of getting her to the point where she had no reasonable explanation as to why we can't date. It's pathetic, frankly.

 

She very much has narcissistic tendencies. Every time we would have an argument which was resolved and resulted in us seeing each other again (typically after a week or less), she would always asked if I missed her, how much I missed her, etc. she would also insist that I love her and can't stay away from her, and that I'm not going to find someone better (she wouldn't explicitly say the latter portion, but she would always give a cocky "good luck" whenever she would talk about me finding someone else better).

 

At first I definitely get she was out of my league, but as time went on I gained the confidence that I deserved to be with her, so I don't think that played a part besides in the beginning. But at the same time, I largely refused to set boundaries because I was scared I would lose her entirely, so I opted for letting it play out organically.

 

I'm in this position because I put my foot down and said enough is enough. But I can't help but feel like someone who had their bluff called, even though I wasn't bluffing. I'm definitely suffering, and I was really hoping I would be able to cut it off and move on without feeling like I had my heart broken.

[Kona123]

Man, man, man...this is kinda how a girl I dated acted. I was her "one" and she loved me etc. This was pure crap, because she started arguments from nice things I did for her. I called her out on this several times, she would apologize or come up with some illogical reason why she was right. Similarly to you, she love bombed me and then didn't want to commit fully...remember she said I was the one for her right? Also, had the conversation about people always leaving her life. I got the feeling she was probably cheating.

 

Now, think about why all her past relationships are crap...it's her. She will always be the victim, or initiate the push or pull method on you to make you bounce back like a rubber band. She feeds her ego through having several partners and the ones that see through her crap get her version of "friendship". She wants you around to be an orbiter until/if she is ever ready, she won't have far to look. Best thing to do is cut her off, STOP HAVING SEX WITH HER, and move on. Trust me she will move on with ease. She just wants to be able to say you're just like the other guys that leave her, BECAUSE SHE LIKES ATTENTION AND DRAMA. She's gonna make your life miserable if you don't cut her out.

 

Best of luck!

 

I don't think she ever started arguments over nice things I did for her, she mostly just took them in stride. She definitely plays victim and employs push/pull. The thing is, she didn't have several partners after her breakup. She saw one guy for 4 months in a non-exclusive arrangement, then she met me. Ironically, when we got in a fight once she ended up sleeping with that guy again.

 

I can definitely tell I was her orbiter. However, I'm not confident she'll move on with ease. She definitely loves attention, without a doubt. And I think I'm just another notch in the rope to confirm her self fulfilling prophecy that everyone in her life abandons her.

 

She did make my life miserable at times ober the past year, but I also had some of the best, most fulfilling experiences of my life. So it's hard.

[Kona123]

Kona, I was married to a BPDer for 15 years. If you're interested in learning how to spot the symptoms, an easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in GoBroncs' Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Kona.

 

I read through many of your posts, and I am impressed to say the least. Is there any way I can talk with you one on one ?

[Downtown]

Kona, please feel free to PM me as soon as you obtain PM privileges. Because you've been a member for over a year, you likely will be able to send personal messages as soon as you post a bit more. Meanwhile, if you have any questions you feel comfortable asking on this public forum, I would be glad to try and answer them.

 

One advantage of posting on the public forum is that you will obtain a diversity of viewpoints. Many members of this forum have had years of experience with partners exhibiting strong traits of both BPD and NPD. Another advantage is that, by sharing your experiences openly, you likely will be helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your thread has already attracted nearly 250 views.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Downtown

[Kona123]

Kona, please feel free to PM me as soon as you obtain PM privileges. Because you've been a member for over a year, you likely will be able to send personal messages as soon as you post a bit more. Meanwhile, if you have any questions you feel comfortable asking on this public forum, I would be glad to try and answer them.

 

One advantage of posting on the public forum is that you will obtain a diversity of viewpoints. Many members of this forum have had years of experience with partners exhibiting strong traits of both BPD and NPD. Another advantage is that, by sharing your experiences openly, you likely will be helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your thread has already attracted nearly 250 views.

 

I appreciate that. One of the main reasons I ask is because I'm partially hesitant to share everything on here in fear that she may one day find the thread and a hell storm will rain down on me, but the chances of that happening are practically zero.

 

Are there particular things you see in the way I've described her behavior which indicate that she may be on the BPD spectrum (leaning more towards significant than insignificant)? I'd love to expand on anything you see, and I certainly have an abundance of stories. I want to do my best to understand this girl. It's what I've been trying to do this whole time. I always thought when we were together that if I could figure her out, I would know how to meet her needs and put her in a comfortable position to date and poof, the rest would be history. Clearly that hasn't played out so well for me, lol.

[Downtown]

Are there particular things you see in the way I've described her behavior which indicate that she may be on the BPD spectrum (leaning more towards significant than insignificant)?

Kona, as you already know, your exGF is definitely on the BPD spectrum. We all are. BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question for you. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

I want to do my best to understand this girl. It's what I've been trying to do this whole time. I always thought when we were together that if I could figure her out, I would know how to meet her needs....

If she really does exhibit strong BPD traits, learning how to "figure her out" will NOT teach you "how to meet her needs." One reason is that, with BPDers, their neediness is a bottomless pit. Hence, trying to satisfy a BPDer's needs is as foolish as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun.

 

Another reason your goal is unattainable is that a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, when you're trying to satisfy the needs created by one fear, you are necessarily moving closer to triggering the other fear. Hence, as you draw away from her to satisfy her need for distance (to reduce her fear of engulfment), you will start triggering her fear of abandonment (which can only be reduced by drawing close).

 

She has serious abandonment issues.

As you already know, a serious abandonment fear is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. The other great fear, as I noted above, is the engulfment fear that is triggered when you draw close during intimate moments or in the middle of a great vacation. This is why a BPDer typically will exhibit the very WORST behavior during, or immediately after, the very BEST of times.

 

There was a ton of drama. Between her randomly telling me she wanted nothing to do with me, and then inviting me over, having sex, then being told she wants nothing to do with me again.

Yes, this cycle of push-you-away (when fearing engulfment) and pull-you-back (when fearing abandonment) is one of the hallmarks of BPDer relationships.

 

Yet she's dating other men. So none of what she's saying tracks. She responded with "I don't know what I want. I thought I would be okay with this but obviously I'm not."

If she has strong BPD traits, she likely is so emotionally unstable that she really may not know today what it is she will want a month from now. The reason is that a BPDer's perception of her partner is strongly dictated by the intense feelings she is experiencing at THIS VERY MOMENT. When her feelings change, her perception of you will change greatly at the same time.

 

As to her being inconsistent, that is to be expected if she is a BPDer. Like a young child, a BPDer has one set of rules for herself and another for everyone else. And BOTH sets of rules likely will change when her intense feelings change.

 

She seems to have a mixture of borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder.

As I noted above, I cannot tell you whether her BPD and NPD traits are so strong and persistent that they meet 100% of the criteria for exhibiting a full-blown disorder. And, because I've never met her, I cannot even tell you whether her BPD and NPD symptoms are at the strong end of those spectra. But you should be able to spot any strong occurrences of these symptoms once you learn what behaviors are on the list.

 

I can tell you, however, that it is common for a person having one full-blown PD to have another one as well. Indeed, the vast majority of folks suffering from full-blown BPD also suffer from one or two other PDs -- together with one or two of the "clinical disorders" (e.g., PTSD, bipolar, anxiety, depression, and ADHD). A recent large-scale study found that a third of female BPDers also exhibit full-blown NPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

[Kona123]

UPDATE:

 

This is separate from the BPD discussion, but I feel the strong urge to post an update, as the story has developed and I am struggling with every fiber in my body to not cave and drive over to her place. But for what? I know what will happen. We will hug, she'll say how much she missed me, we'll have sex, then it's back to square one. She certainly won't respect me after breaking my word about walking away yet again.

 

It's just so hard to not rationalize why it's a good idea to go back.

 

- "Well, maybe she's really messed up over the situation and is wanting me to go back so we can make things right together."

 

- "Sh**. She's probably forgetting about me and moving on. Another day going by of me not talking to her is another day of her getting over me and falling for someone else."

 

- "If I go back we can just start with a FWB sort of arrangement and I will do the right things THIS time to make it work out in my favor."

 

 

All of these and more have gone through my mind. I know intuitively that my only chance in hell of getting what I want is to walk away. And I know self healing during NC is very important- I'm not ignoring that. I'm just stating what is blatantly obvious.

 

I'm not sure if this is healthy, but sometimes treating it like a game helps me get through NC. Seeing it as "if I contact her, she wins. I look like a little bi**h, and she confirms that I will always run back to her. She can have her cake and eat it too."

 

Whereas if I don't contact her, in the long haul- I am winning. I either get her, OR (despite how inconceivable it seems right now), I will find someone better.

 

 

Anyway, on to the story of what happened most recently. Input on this is greatly appreciated. My intuition is "bread crumbs".

 

 

About 3 days into NC I unfollowed her on IG. Mainly because I was stalking the photos she was liking and creating scenarios in my head. Well, a couple of days after that she makes her account private (which she has NEVER done). In a way, this helped me, as it forced me to not long at her stuff.

 

Anyway, yesterday I posted a picture on IG. Shortly after I posted it, she liked the picture. I clicked her profile (force of habit), and noticed a new post- both of her prior ones were pictures with self righteous quotes that were obviously about our situation.

 

Anyway, in this picture she's smiling, looking like she's having a great time, and making a joke with her caption.

 

I don't know what to make of that. Is this evidence that it's getting to her? If I ignore it (which I have), will she get more bold?

 

Part of me thinks she's doing it to tug on the leash and see if in still there. Or she feels I'm forgetting her and needs to put her name in my orbit so I see her and what she's doing.

 

 

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. And for those lurking going through NC- stay strong. I've been through a lot of hard times and this is undoubtedly one of the hardest things I have EVER done.

[Kona123]

Bumping this!