What does true reconciliation look like?

July 13, 2016

What are words and actions that would show that reconciliation attempts are genuine?

My husband is very apologetic and takes accountability, but sometimes I doubt his sincerity. I think because he had an EA and not a PA, he thinks it "wasn't that bad," though he admits he would be upset if I'd done the same. He admits that he lied, mostly, but I have a feeling that he's sugarcoating some details or saying what he thinks I want to hear, but doesn't believe it wasn't that big a deal.

For the BS out there, were there any particular gestures or words that made you say "gosh, s/he really means it, maybe this can work"? For WS was there a turning point where you realized that you HAD seriously ****ed up? What did you do that showed you really cared that seemed to get through to your WS? How did you think of it?

July 13, 2016

No magic words. Being consistent over time is the only way to know.

July 13, 2016

By OP

For the BS out there, were there any particular gestures or words that made you say "gosh, s/he really means it, maybe this can work"?

It takes a combination if words and ACTIONS

He/she can say something like, I am going to get all the information that I can from reliable sources and I am going to do everything to make up for what I did. That is just the beginning. The big one is He/she show you with ACTIONS for a very long time that the words are real and to be trusted.

Actions always speak louder than words!

July 13, 2016

I think true reconciliation can look different to different couples. I have seen and read couples stories on infidelity boards that to me did not look like true reconciliation, but if they are happy, that is all that counts.

I think many couples early on, less than 5 years, are anxious to reach reconciliation and that prior comfort level. They may declare themselves reconciled only to go through multiple relapses. I think true reconciliation is a long journey.

I agree with many of the posters, after an affair, words can not make up for the indiscretion. It takes actions over a long period of time. Words, the ws wedding vows in front of God, family and friends did not mean anything, so why would any additional words? Look for sincere actions.

July 13, 2016

Mr. Blunt is correct.

Words are cheap. Actually, they're free. Anyone can squeeze out a few crocodile tears, put on a pained face and tell you how 'sorry' they are and how upset they are for having hurt you.

It takes just about zero effort and very little acting.

And sure, they can give you full access to their phones and iPads and laptops and email accounts being 'remorseful' and 'transparent' - but you don't honestly think they'd be STUPID enough to use those venues again, do you? Come on.

And if you mean he's 'taking accountability' simply because he can't deny or lie anymore that he was cheating and is admitting to it, that's hardly a monumental feat. It's not like he can lie his way out of it anymore so what other choice does he have?

Remorse is a crap shoot at best. Let's be honest here. Where was all their 'remorse' every single day when they were lying to your face and running off to get naked with their affair partner? Where was all this 'remorse' when they disappointed you - over and over - by getting home late for dinner yet again or missing another family function like their kid's soccer game, etc.? Where was all that 'remorse' those probably countless times they pulled something sleazy right under your nose - like texting their affair partner or sending them a quick email - while you sat right next to them on the couch or were cleaning up their dinner dishes? And where was all their 'remorse' when they were scrubbing themselves off and removing all traces of their affair partner and were on their way home so they could walk through the door and continue to deceive you into thinking they were really working late again (or at the gym or at poker night, or helping a friend move a couch, etc. etc.)?

Where was all that 'remorse' then?

Suddenly, the day comes when they're caught and they can't lie their way out of it anymore, and now they suddenly have all this 'remorse' for all that crap behavior they pulled every single DAY for the entire length of their affair?

I think what most betrayed spouses are seeing is really just regret more than anything else. Regret that they got caught, regret that their marriages are now facing this type of difficulty, regret that they have to be looked at as pond scum by their betrayed spouse for the next umpteen years, regret that their freedom - as they knew it - no longer exists, and regret that every move they make is now being monitored and/or questioned.

And if they want to stay out of divorce court and not lose half their assets or become an every other weekend Disney dad, they'll pretty much tell you whatever they think you want to hear. And if it sounds 'remorseful' enough, then all the better for them.

July 13, 2016

Reconciliation is a lifelong process. How do you recognize true reconciliation? When at the death of one of the spouses .., they are still together and have lived happy fulfilled lives.

The question should be how do you see true remorse...

And that's an entirely different ballgame.

Can you have true reconciliation without remorse... Yes.. Many couples stay together and are happy without remorse... But I think those betrayed spouses remain hopeful that their wayward will eventually come to understand true remorse.

Remorse is more than being sorry.. Remorse requires action. Most waywards are sorry for what they have done .. And are sorry for the hurt they have caused their betrayed. But do they truly understand the depth of their betrayal? Do they truly understand the devastation? The pain? I think very few are able to put themselves inside of the pain they have caused and understand the impact of that pain and are willing to do whatever it takes to help heal their spouse and rebuild trust and lessen the pain of their betrayal.

True remorse takes time... Every time I read a story here and the couple is in reconciliation less than 5 years but the wayward is oh so remorseful ... I cringe...

And 9 times out of 10.. That same betrayed spouse will be back complaining about something the wayward is doing or not doing... And they don't understand why. Why? Because they have not yet achieved remorse.

In the beginning.. The wayward is still dealing with their own pain... And while they are sorry for the pain of the betrayed.. They are still in a selfish mindset.

You cannot put on the pain of your betrayed if you are still wallowing in your own pain. You cannot help heal them if you are still dealing with your own self preservation.

So I say to the op.. What does your spouses progress toward remorse look like?

Are they still concentrating on their own loss or have they progressed to understanding the loss they have caused you? Truly understanding what they have done?

July 13, 2016

In the beginning.. The wayward is still dealing with their own pain... And while they are sorry for the pain of the betrayed.. They are still in a selfish mindset.

You cannot put on the pain of your betrayed if you are still wallowing in your own pain. You cannot help heal them if you are still dealing with your own self preservation.

By far the hardest part of R was watching my husband go through the break-up with the other woman. My husband. Break up. Other woman. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Always will. No matter how hard he was trying to do right by me, his sadness over the loss of his AP was palpable and made my stomach churn. He speaks of her differently now - a look of disgust and regret comes across his face, I think not about her as a person but about the true nature of their relationship and what it almost cost him, what it made him do to me.

I am only 19 months out from d-day, holyrolypoly, and there are times when I still look at my WH like he has 5 heads. Some of the weird sh*t that comes out of his mouth "remembering" what our lives looked like before the affair startles me. I feel traces of what I can only call contempt, despite the fact that his actions are 99% of the time nothing to be alarmed about. He is consistent, he is attentive, he is communicative, he is there for me, he checks in, he comes to MC and does the work with me... but like MJA said, it's a lifelong process.

Frankly, I don't know that I'll ever feel 100% secure again no matter how many years of remorseful behaviour he dishes out for me. I remember reading several articles about "affair-proofing" your marriage that suggest that you should never ever trust your spouse 100% so maybe it's not a bad thing that I'll never be free from a handful of triggers. I will forgive, but I will never forget.

July 13, 2016

Frankly, I don't know that I'll ever feel 100% secure again no matter how many years of remorseful behaviour he dishes out for me.

Easy...you wont ever trust him 100% again. You will grow to trust him...but there will forever be that little thing in the back of your mind that tells you...I trusted him 100% before and he proved me wrong.

Life can be absolutely wonderful again...I promise it can....and in some ways...it can even be better than before.....but in other ways....you can never get back what you lost.....and 100% trust is one of those things.

July 13, 2016

Okay, but what KINDS of actions? Yes, we're transparent now. He's saying some right things, but also some things that make me doubt whether he DOES truly get it. Yes, I know he's sorry, but it does seem sometimes like he's sorry that any of it happened, and I get that. It doesn't feel like enough, though. I don't want to be overly strict, but yeah, we're both impatient. He's tried to show he's sorry by sleeping on the floor and other degrading things (even shedding blood), but it doesn't really touch my heart. He's being extremely attentive, doing all the chores, driving everywhere. At the same time he wants credit for not having had sex with the OW and for not trying to contact her or any of the other women he was flirting with.

I'm not asking to do the work for him, research things and tell him to do them, I just want to know what kind of actions to watch for to make sure I'm being fair and not just holding on to my resentment.

July 13, 2016

Have you both read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda macdonald?

It will tell both of you what to look for and how to get there

July 13, 2016

My wife had a EA - but was a messed up EA and so much more than a EA - or one betrayal. So many lies and hurts. She also thought it was not that bad - until she had to look our female therapists in the eye and say that - then she changed some.

I can't say we have had "true reconciliation" even 11 years later. Or even a ton of remorse. As Mrs.John Adams stated its a life long process. I also agree with a number of her comments and thoughts.

However several actions - perhaps she only did so I would not divorce - have helped provide some healing. One was staying away from her home town - first reluctant to save the marriage, later because she realized it was the healthy thing to do to make a break from OM and others tied to OM.

Another was after some therapy years ago she did have a some points where she got some remorse - mainly it was kind of having to look others (the women therapists) in the face and then she broke down and expressed some remorse.

I admire several couples here like the John Adams and DKT3's who appear to have established something new and mostly good and happy.

I had a post here once were I mentioned I am less unhappy then I have ever been in the marriage. Some people got what I meant. To me that is a an achievement. If my WW could resolve the sex issues in our marriage I could cross over I think to kinda happy.

I admire several couples here like the John Adams and DKT3's who appear to have established something new and mostly good.

Edited July 13, 2016 by dichotomy

July 14, 2016

Apparently, putting up with it to keep the status quo.

July 14, 2016

Apparently, putting up with it to keep the status quo.

Not even close

July 14, 2016

Holy,

If I read it right this was EA, not PA. . Doesn't really matter at this point.

The things you need to realize are

(1) you are in a long distance race to R, not a sprint. There are no shortcuts and those this take the shortcuts are more likely to find themselves in this situation again.

(2) he seems to be doing the right things, but ACTIONS over time are what count, NOT words. Total tranbsparancy, NC with any of these women are not negotiable and no amount of housework that he does changes that.

(3) the healing happens at YOUR pace and he accommodates your needs. No excuses are acceptable. 100% on him what he did.

(4) and lastly, and most importantly, you do not have to explain to anyone if you cannot get through this and do not want to stay married. That is your call, and a possible consequence that he was willing to risk for the excitement of what he was doing.

You mentioned you both were impatient. Then reverse that thought process because patience and honesty are what is needed.

July 14, 2016

The kinds of things a WS does will be completely unique, based on the kind of betrayal. A better question is, what kind of reparition do you want or need?

If you need apologies, then WS should be apologizing.

Do you need absolute transparency? Then WS should be giving you passwords and carte blanche access to their cell, email, messaging, social media, etc.

Do you need acts of service? Then let WS know that doing the dishes and mowing the lawn is proof of remorse.

Are you in need of sexual healing? WS should be asking what, where, when, how, and his often you need to get cozy.

Your WS cannot show remorse in a way you will greet it unless they know what you expect or wish. While it only took one to break the vows, it took two to create the time and space for the affair to happen. TALK to your WS. Tell them what you want/need. They're not mind-readers.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Lobe
Formatting

July 15, 2016

For me it was when SHE started to bring it up for discussion and not me. It was the random apologies out of nowhere because she was happy, then suddenly full of regret and remorse.

It was when she stopped sugarcoating the terms on her own, and started using the ones that were once really difficult to say ( ie: stopped calling it an "incident" and started calling it " the cheating" or her "affair." )

And in a weird way, it was when we'd argue about who left the fridge door open, or unplugged my phone before it was done charging, and nowhere in the argument did anyone somehow tie it back to cheating.

July 15, 2016

The kinds of things a WS does will be completely unique, based on the kind of betrayal. A better question is, what kind of reparition do you want or need?

If you need apologies, then WS should be apologizing.

Do you need absolute transparency? Then WS should be giving you passwords and carte blanche access to their cell, email, messaging, social media, etc.

Do you need acts of service? Then let WS know that doing the dishes and mowing the lawn is proof of remorse.

Are you in need of sexual healing? WS should be asking what, where, when, how, and his often you need to get cozy.

Your WS cannot show remorse in a way you will greet it unless they know what you expect or wish. While it only took one to break the vows, it took two to create the time and space for the affair to happen. TALK to your WS. Tell them what you want/need. They're not mind-readers.

I've been reading in this forum for the last few days. While my current status is single, 2+ years ago I was an OW. No Dday, no bunny boiling, no fights, I just didn't want him to risk it all.

I just wanted to say that post really leaped out at me. It would have helped a ton in my marriage for when he did other wrong doings (he didn't cheat).

July 16, 2016

For me it was when SHE started to bring it up for discussion and not me. It was the random apologies out of nowhere because she was happy, then suddenly full of regret and remorse.

It was when she stopped sugarcoating the terms on her own, and started using the ones that were once really difficult to say ( ie: stopped calling it an "incident" and started calling it " the cheating" or her "affair." )

And in a weird way, it was when we'd argue about who left the fridge door open, or unplugged my phone before it was done charging, and nowhere in the argument did anyone somehow tie it back to cheating.

This. I consider myself well spoken but this has said exactly what I want better than I have been able to so far.

July 16, 2016

For me it was when SHE started to bring it up for discussion and not me. It was the random apologies out of nowhere because she was happy, then suddenly full of regret and remorse.

It was when she stopped sugarcoating the terms on her own, and started using the ones that were once really difficult to say ( ie: stopped calling it an "incident" and started calling it " the cheating" or her "affair." )

And in a weird way, it was when we'd argue about who left the fridge door open, or unplugged my phone before it was done charging, and nowhere in the argument did anyone somehow tie it back to cheating.

That does sound helpful. I don't know what I want, though. I'm mostly feeling really tired, so he's picking up slack around the house, cooking, cleaning, etc, but I want a real gesture. What I really want is to feel the same way I did about him before, and trust him. I want to have the husband I thought I had. And look at him and not see a liar. But I don't know if that's even possible.

July 16, 2016

It is possible but it takes a lot of hard work on both of your parts and it takes time... Lots and lots of time

July 17, 2016

True reconciliation doesn't depend solely on your spouse's remorse. True reconciliation looks like a solidly renewed and healthy marriage from both of your perspectives.

Edited July 17, 2016 by MuddyFootprints

July 17, 2016

First of all, I am really so sorry you even have to ask this question! How great though that you and your husband are taking the steps toward restoration!

As mentioned by many who replied - reconciliation is a process - and for some more difficult than others. Both need to be fully invested...it takes time and commitment, open and HONEST communication, IC/MC, a good support system and a plethora of resources - there is a great website: AffairRecovery-founded by Rick Reynolds, with an extensive archived "library." (And yes! if you haven't already, I, too want to encourage you to please pick up the book Mrs. John Adams recommended). IMO, reconciliation takes 100% follow-thru from the WS. Without a doubt, words/apologies indeed are empty unless backed up by action!

For us, reconciliation didn't begin until my H was out of his fog of denial - that in itself was a long difficult journey and took a great deal of patience and many prayers on my part. When he took the initiative to read more, etc., and ask what it was that I needed from him AND take the those necessary steps to FOLLOW THRU, that is when I knew we were making progress. And as crazy and backward as this may sound? When my H began to believe that I wasn't going to walk away? It was then that he finally let down ALL of his defenses; exposing 100% vulnerability and brokenness. In that I saw complete and total remorse.

We still have a lot of work to do, but by grace, forgiveness and our faith in God - we are well on our way. I will keep you and your H in my prayers. You WILL get through this.

Please check back and let us know how you are doing.

July 21, 2016

Have you both read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda macdonald?

It will tell both of you what to look for and how to get there

I ordered it about a week ago, but it hasn't come yet. I'll let you know. I read After the Affair by Janis Abrams Spring, and it was pretty good. It did give concrete steps toward regaining trust. We've got a lot of books we're on right now, though.

July 21, 2016

I ordered it about a week ago, but it hasn't come yet. I'll let you know. I read After the Affair by Janis Abrams Spring, and it was pretty good. It did give concrete steps toward regaining trust. We've got a lot of books we're on right now, though.

Snap! You can read it free in PDF format!!! .lindajmacdonald.com/HOW_TO_HELP_11-06-10_FINAL_pdf-.pdf

Totally worth the wait though, and for me and WH it was useful being able to read books at the same time. After the Affair was OK but not my favorite.

July 25, 2016

Snap! You can read it free in PDF format!!! .lindajmacdonald.com/HOW_TO_HELP_11-06-10_FINAL_pdf-.pdf

Totally worth the wait though, and for me and WH it was useful being able to read books at the same time. After the Affair was OK but not my favorite.

Aw, thanks. Yeah, I guess we can read together when it comes in the mail.

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