Words you allow your WS to use.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Good friend of mine just had her 3rd D-Day/False R. This one looks like it will seal the deal, and they will divorce.

 

In talking with her about it, she asked me if I would read a copy of what her husband had emailed her, and give her my thoughts on it. I was tempted to say no, it's not my place....but what can I say? Curiosity got the better of me, and I read it. The word Horse***** doesn't even BEGIN to describe what this guy wrote trying to save his own butt... but that's not the point of the thread.

 

In his email he referred to his "extra curricular activites" and of course how they would stop immediately. He also referred to his "stories" when describing his deceitful behaviors. And this reminded me of the early days after my first D-Day.

 

My wife would email me and refer to it as "the incidents" and her "stories" and "being intimate."

 

I would always send her emails back to her saying " I skimmed this....Please Replace the word "Incidents" with "Cheating", replace "stories" with "LIES", and "being intimate" with "screwing him behind your back" and I will be happy to respond.

 

This went over like a turd in a punch bowl, but she did it. Eventually, she just used my approved terms on her own, and gave up trying to soften anything for her own benefit. After awhile I allowed the use of the word "Affair" because I was done being upset and childish, and the word affair encapsulated all the deceit and sex and betrayal just fine.

 

Years later she told me she hated having to use the terms I made her use, but that ultimately it was helpful. She learned that by softening the words, she was apologizing for what SHE felt she had done, but that when she had to use MY terms, she realized that she needed to be apologizing for what "I" felt she had done. Perhaps not explaining it very well, but that's what happened.

 

So I got to wondering of any of you recent BS's are requiring your WS's to use more accurate terms, and not the fluffy, easy-to-use ones.

[dichotomy]

I am not recent BS, but my WS did use minimizing or euphemisms terms as much as possible for all the crap that she did. I mean don't most WS minizmie it all ?

 

I ended up for a while simply correcting her "on the fly" (interrupt her sentence) as she used these "alternative minimizing terms" in front of me. It irritated the heck out of her. But after a while I just gave up - I knew what she meat when using her "Safe" words. One thing that really upset me in reading one emails was that her OM used to use the stupid term "proper hug" to describe " F@#king".

[Sub]

Only thing I asked was for her not to refer to him as her "friend". "Boyfriend" and/or "f***buddy" were preferred. She's taken to referring to the A simply as "what I did." Doesn't really bother me. We both know what it was.

[mizunomead]

Yeah, she tried to. Then i filed for divorce a few weeks later. And i used some very "soft" terms to describe the dissolution of our union

[TrustedthenBusted]

Only thing I asked was for her not to refer to him as her "friend". "Boyfriend" and/or "f***buddy" were preferred. She's taken to referring to the A simply as "what I did." Doesn't really bother me. We both know what it was.

 

Yes. I also accepted "what I did" as a valid descriptor eventually. At least it showed accountability.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Yeah, she tried to. Then i filed for divorce a few weeks later. And i used some very "soft" terms to describe the dissolution of our union

 

Not that I expect it, but when stuff like this happens, I have to admit to myself that it's a possibility for me as well.

 

If it DOES ever happen, and it turns out my R is false, I will not only use the hard words, I will make it a point to use the hardest ones in the dictionary, and may even make up a few new ones.

[dichotomy]

Only thing I asked was for her not to refer to him as her "friend". "Boyfriend" and/or "f***buddy" were preferred.

 

 

Same here she did that for all her previous partners including OM. I used "sex partner" or "lover" - interrupting her when she used "friend". She also would use "date" when she never "dated" - so I would interrupt and say "had sex with". She hated when I did that.

[Sub]

Same here she did that for all her previous partners including OM. I used "sex partner" or "lover" - interrupting her when she used "friend". She also would use "date" when she never "dated" - so I would interrupt and say "had sex with". She hated when I did that.

 

Yeah, and I wasn't trying to be snarky or childish about it. Just that, what they had, how they acted, was how a bf/gf relationship would be. It's how we acted when we were dating. So own it and call it what it is.

[mizunomead]

Being a bit more serious. Yeah, i think the WS is trying to minimize the impact of what they did, trying to make it not sound as bad. Not just to the BS, but to themselves also. Kind of a thinking of im not a bad person i just made a little boo boo...like overcooking the rice for dinner.

[RecentChange]

Maybe I am lucky because I read a bunch on here and otherwise before my D day.... but there was no sugar coating, and that band aid was ripped off clean.

 

I F'ed up. I was selfish, yep, I F'ed him, he (OM) certainly wasn't my "friend" and we didn't go on dates. I was foolish - and honestly didn't deserve his forgiveness (or even willingness to entertain the thought)

 

Ugh, the fine line between validating all of his (BS) feelings, while not appearing like I was self-deprecating to an over the top level.

 

If I allowed my self to wallow in my own self pitty / depreciation - he would feel bad. Not the goal, so I would try to balance showing my remorse and support, while not calling myself, and what I had done every name in the book.

 

I don't know how people can reconcile when the WS tries to pretend like it was no big deal.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

What a great topic for a thread.

 

Of course there is the ubiquitous term of "mistake". That was nipped in the bud quickly. She had to replace "mistake" with "affair" or "adultery". She would also refer to her affair as "that time" or "that period". That doesn't upset me nearly as much as "mistake". I usually let it slide.

 

The first thing that popped in my head was my WW hates to call him by name. If she couldn't word the sentence to use a pronoun (him), she would say something like "co-worker". I insist that she calls him by name and use "boyfriend" instead of "co-worker".

 

I'm sure there are other examples but the name of the OM is the biggest one.

[JohnAdams]

I have probably learned more unacceptable words reading infidelity boards than ever bothered me in real life. I know that a WS using "mistake" is always a big no-no on infidelity boards, but, the term mistake never bothered me. A mistake by definition is "an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong". So, it is a choice that is wrong.

 

 

I do agree that early after discovery, a ws will use terms to soften or sugarcoat their actions. I guess one of the words that bothered me was she "slept" with him. Oh, did you take a nap afterwards? No, you did not sleep with him, you f--ked him.

 

 

But, I know words can sting and stay with you forever.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

but, the term mistake never bothered me. A mistake by definition is "an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong". So, it is a choice that is wrong.

 

I can see a ONS as a "mistake" as it is a one-time incident of bad judgement. But an ongoing affair is not a "mistake", but very intentional and requires planning and covering up.

 

Early on during MC my wife kept saying "mistake" so I stood up and took off my shirt. My wife asked what I was doing. I replied, "I'm sorry, I took my clothes off by mistake."

Edited July 13, 2016 by Betrayed&Stayed

[EverySunset]

The first Dday I was explicit. She was not his girlfriend, she was his "mistress".

 

The second Dday he stopped being my "husband".

[TrustedthenBusted]

I can see a ONS as a "mistake" as it is a one-time incident of bad judgement. But an ongoing affair is not a "mistake", but very intentional and requires planning and covering up.

 

Early on during MC my wife kept saying "mistake" so I stood up and took off my shirt. My wife asked what I was doing. I replied, "I'm sorry, I took my clothes off by mistake."

 

Classic! Nice moves. I did something similiar, but with more lasting consequences.

 

I ran out and bought something I KNEW would cause a problem ( Think American Beauty ) and just plopped it in the driveway. When she asked, I responded " Oh, did I just exercise bad judgement? Sorry. "

 

She wouldn't sit in it for years. And I, of course refused to sell it. But now we drive it around on Sundays and enjoy it, without a single thought of how it came to be. There was a thread on here about whether anything good came out of an A, but I didn't have an answer. I had forgotten that I got a sweet car out of the deal.

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

I'm sure there are other examples but the name of the OM is the biggest one.

 

I was the opposite. She said his name and it made my blood boil. So for the next 5 years or so he was referred to only as "Pee Wee."

 

Only recently have I used his real name in a conversation.

[William]

As a reminder, topics about words are not carte blanche to use prohibited language, even if ascribing it to others. I figured I'd get that in early so as not to burden any members with the loss of posting privileges. More information here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/loveshack-org-questions-comments/546209-policy-individual-group-bashing-berating

[Lobe]

There was a lot of euphemism happening in the early days. I made him use proper terminology - he was inserting his penis in her mouth, not "fooling around", he was fisting her in the bathroom at work, not "engaging in heavy petting" with her, and he was performing cunnilingus not "making out."

 

I think for some waywards, they use minimizing terms because they think it will protect their spouse while others (like mine) use them to protect themselves - for him it was way harder looking me in the eye and telling me that he had unprotected anal sex in our family vehicle than saying "We went partying in the hatchback without hats."

 

Whatever the case may be, the BS should get to call the shots.

[TrustedthenBusted]

There was a lot of euphemism happening in the early days.

 

Whatever the case may be, the BS should get to call the shots.

 

I wonder if the WS can actually win here. I think if my wife had originally started off using the REAL terms, it may have been too hard for me to hear, and I may have preferred something less harsh.

 

But, she obviously chose the soft terms, and that set me off too, so I made her use the real ones.

 

Basically I think I might have forced her to use whichever she was most uncomfortable with.

[Lobe]

Basically I think I might have forced her to use whichever she was most uncomfortable with.

 

Accurate lol

[Lady2163]

I don't come to this forum all that often. I've been a betrayed girlfriend in two relationship that were abusive. I'm divorced, and while my husband broke the marriage vows, I don't think he cheated. But until two years and a few months ago I was an OW. So, I don't visit here much.

 

I have a degree in counseling and it is with that knowledge and experience I wish to speak. My personal experience with gas lighting was relatively brief. Both the cheating boyfriends ended things within weeks of meeting their new girlfriends. My ex husband spent several years ignoring the cherish vow, which I had insisted be in the vows.

 

If I were counseling a couple who was sincere in their attempt at reconciliation, I would be hesitant to support a betrayed spouse insisting on wandering spouse using profane words they wouldn't normally use. Part of the reconciliation, part of the healing, part of the moving forward is to learn to communicate either better or again.

 

There was also someone on here who mentioned they were very quick to interrupt and make the spouse use the "correct" words. Interrupting is a power play and a controlling trait.

 

My concern is if betrayed spouse truly wants reconciliation, then by correcting or demanding certain phrases, there's potential to make the wandering spouse communicate less. It may make you feel better to control them and force them to be uncomfortable, but are the results detrimental in the end?

 

I've never been a cheater and I've never had kids. I'm also not wholly convinced I've ever been in romantic love in my entire life. But I've felt family love and friendship love and I did have a foster child I loved very much. I've elimated family, friends and foster child when they were abusive, neglectful or users.

 

I say that because if I did cheat or intentionally/repeatedly break a marriage vow, I don't know how much I'd tolerate from a betrayed spouse that was counter productive to me....which in turn counter productive to us. As I understand it, the three primary reasons cheater stay or reconcile are: financial, for the children and because they really do love the spouse. Knocking out children and finances for me, how much would I be willing to cope with for true love? I just don't know.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I say that because if I did cheat or intentionally/repeatedly break a marriage vow, I don't know how much I'd tolerate from a betrayed spouse that was counter productive to me....

 

 

So you'd presumably expect forgiveness for something as vile cheating, but draw the line at their insistence that you call it what it was?

 

As a trained counselor, and former betrayed partner, you probably already know how traumatic a D-Day can be.

 

I think it's a lot to ask someone who just got kicked in the face to be too concerned with whether or not his reaction is "counter productive" to you.

 

From many of the posts here, a lot of us got past this phase before long, and allowed for good communication, through whatever words were mutually acceptable. But in the beginning....if you want me to stay...the price is you speak from MY dictionary for a time.

[Jersey born raised]

There are terms that should never be used when confronting a WS. William is right in not allowing them. There use only worsens the situation. But, using terms to soften what occured is worse.

 

I saw a post that the poster refused to use the term affair when discussing a broken marriage. As he put it "Adlutery is a cold, ugly, judgmental word. It evokes broken families, children and BS traumatised by another two people, the WS and OP". I agree and always use the term adultery, adulteress or adulterour.

 

So instead of that period I would use when I was in an adulterous relationship. When I had an affair is when I commit adultery.

 

Why not cheating? Hell cheating is used when cheating at low stakes poker, or on a school test. Is that what the WS is implying it was like?

 

Affair? An affair can be positive, two people learning about themselves at a given moment I time and move on. Nothing was promised except that moment in time.

 

I have never been involve with adultety and never will. I verify closely that the OP is single. Affairs in my view can be fun but never adultey.

[Lady2163]

So you'd presumably expect forgiveness for something as vile cheating, but draw the line at their insistence that you call it what it was?

 

As a trained counselor, and former betrayed partner, you probably already know how traumatic a D-Day can be.

 

I think it's a lot to ask someone who just got kicked in the face to be too concerned with whether or not his reaction is "counter productive" to you.

 

From many of the posts here, a lot of us got past this phase before long, and allowed for good communication, through whatever words were mutually acceptable. But in the beginning....if you want me to stay...the price is you speak from MY dictionary for a time.

 

The crux of my counseling was children, mainly girls. I think how counter productive it would have been to insist they say "bullying" instead of "picked on" when they were they antagonist. They are acknowledging the bad behavior, work from there to correct the behavior.

 

I didn't find out my boyfriends had cheated until after they broke up with me, so no ddays that resulted in any kind of reconciliation. I didn't get the "satisfaction" of making them bend to my demands.

 

My exH left me. He came back 1-2 days later and walked in like he was king of the pride. He arrogantly informed me, "If I come back, there's going to be some changes...."

 

My response was, "Well, first of all, you're not coming back...."

 

Now, I made mistakes in the marriage, but he made more and worse ones. I know that I didn't love him anymore and I wasn't going to go through the motions for the next five years (which was my long term plan).

 

Since I didn't love him, I was not willing to jump through a single hoop.

 

In some ways I type this from a position of....arrogance (?). That may not be the correct word. But as I write this, I have no children, I will never have biological children, nor will I adopt. I am financially stable, even a bit solvent. And I'm not in romantic love with anyone. So it's a bit hard for me to think what I would be willing to do if I were a wandering partner and had a Dday.

 

Both boyfriends that cheated were abusive during the relationship, and they did gaslight in the last few weeks. If I close my eyes and take a few deep breaths, I can remember that feeling that I was slowly going crazy and wondering which of their negative personalities I would encounter that day. How would they neglect me that day?

 

I still have the belief that if I were to marry I'd choose better than that first time. I have the belief that if I was miserable, I'd divorce before cheating. If I was entertaining an exit affair and had someone circling, there's been a massive breakdown in my marriage. I'd like to think I wouldn't put myself in the position of having to entertain the need for a five year plan.

 

Interrupting is not fighting fair. Profanity ups the aggressiveness of a conflict as does name calling. Again, my marriage counseling usage is less than 20 couples. If I found out this is how either spouse was insisting the other speak, that would be eliminated. You feel that type of punishment is befitting for the crime. If marriage was meant to be tit for tat, how many of them would survive even three years?

[dichotomy]

 

If I were counseling a couple who was sincere in their attempt at reconciliation, I would be hesitant to support a betrayed spouse insisting on wandering spouse using profane words they wouldn't normally use. Part of the reconciliation, part of the healing, part of the moving forward is to learn to communicate either better or again.

 

There was also someone on here who mentioned they were very quick to interrupt and make the spouse use the "correct" words. Interrupting is a power play and a controlling trait.

 

My concern is if betrayed spouse truly wants reconciliation, then by correcting or demanding certain phrases, there's potential to make the wandering spouse communicate less. It may make you feel better to control them and force them to be uncomfortable, but are the results detrimental in the end?

 

.

 

I believe you have to NOT sugar coat it - if that's what the B.S. wants or needs needs.

 

My cheaters continue to control the damage - to themselves. Thats were lies blur into soft terms. Communication can't be honest if there is no agreement on the correct terms.

 

Examples apply in all forms of unhealthy behavior and even abuse.

 

My therapists were into honesty and blunt - call it as it is. I choose them for this. It broke down barriers - and in increased accountability. Many who commit wrongs - use soft terms to spare themselves accountability and to avoid the hard work of repentance.

 

I get that many therapist don't like to assign accountability and wrongs or blame.

 

The last therapist we had was also a sex therapist - and the terms while not curse words... where very sexually clinical and explicit.

 

My wife even refused to use the term adultery instead using "mistake". Again my therapist did not allow soft terms nor swear words, but words like sex, lie, sexual partner, adultery, cheat, instead of terms like "Date" "Friend" "mistake" "hook up" "sleep"..... and my favorite "It was not that bad !" (um for who ? me ? OM's wife and kids? or just you)

 

But I understand therapist have different approaches and views. I choose the therapists and process and words I needed to continue on . My WW made her choices previously that she wanted for her needs. I guess you can make an argument (which you have) that I was controlling after dDay - I think I had some right.

Edited July 16, 2016 by dichotomy