Does she think I am damaged goods?

[drew_meister]

I've been seeing this girl for a little over a month now. Things started off great. First date ended with a goodnight kiss. Second date and third dates involved dinner, drinks, and serious groping. Fourth date she wanted to come over to my place, which is a huge a problem right now. My housing situation is a basically a train wreck because of my divorce. I basically shuttle between 3 different places. My ex-wife and I still own a house together. She doesn't make enough money to keep it so I agreed to pay the mortgage. I'm doing this so my kids can stay in the same school with all their friends and have had minimal disruption to their lives. As a result, I can't afford my own place that is big enough for them. So when I have my kids, I stay with them at my parents house. Lastly, I rent a dingy room in a tiny rent controlled 2-bedroom apartment. It's totally unsuitable for bringing over female company. I sometimes stay over at my ex's (couch surf) to be around the kids more often.

 

So when she comes over for dinner, I decide to cook her dinner at my ex-wife's house, who was out of town for a week with the kids. She knows about my divorce, kids, living situation etc... and seemed fine with it. After dinner we had sex and it was very good for both of us. Understandably, she didn't want to stay the night. Anyway, our next date was about a week later at her house. She cooked this time and we had sex again. Afterwards, she told me she didn't want to have an exclusive relationship. I'm not even sure I want an LTR with her, but I definitely considered it a possibility until she said that. Maybe she's just a modern women and doesn't want to be tied down. But things seemed to be going so well until the dreaded living situation came up. I'm seeing her again next week, so we are still dating. We text a good amount too and everything else seems normal, but that sudden turn of events bugs. Does she see me as damaged goods or is this more about what she wants in a relationship right now?

 

Ladies, how would you react if a guy you were otherwise really into had such sordid living conditions?

[Alamo657]

You have dreadful living conditions, you re bleeding yourself dry to the benefit of your ex, and you bring up your kids as an excuse for your own doings.

 

Ofc no woman will date you for a LTR.

 

You need to dump this house and think about your future, not your ex wife's.

[elaine567]

I rent a dingy room in a tiny rent controlled 2-bedroom apartment. It's totally unsuitable for bringing over female company. I sometimes stay over at my ex's (couch surf) to be around the kids more often

You're a bit of a train wreck and not really "relationship material" just now are you?

What does the future hold for any women dating you?

Or is your intention to slip into HER home and have her keep you whilst you continue to finance your ex wife and your kids?

What exactly would you bring to HER party?

An ex, a whole bunch of kids, no money and no doubt trouble ahead as she vainly vies for your attention.

 

It is all very admirable that you are keeping your family together and stable despite the divorce, but few single women will appreciate the fact you are doing so much for your ex to the detriment of yourself, and by extension to the detriment of any future plans you would have with her.

How could she envisage a long term future with you, when you are still almost totally immersed in your past?

[Toodaloo]

Sorry but I would not want to date you seriously either.

 

I understand that you want your kids to have a stable environment but Daddy hopping about all over the place is not stable for them.

 

I would want to see you in your own home that has space for your children when they want to come and stay with you. I would want to see your ex in her own home and your finances separated.

 

A jointly owned home etc is just another tie to your ex. Sorry but your ex = your responsibility. Not mine. Why should I be punished in terms of when I can stay over and my own finances because you have an ex? Why should I effectively end up paying for your ex?

 

Get support payments in place, get yourself sorted and properly split up from your ex. Then sensible women will date you seriously instead of just using you to get their rocks off.

[BaileyB]

I agree. You have a lot to sort out before I would consider dating you. Good luck.

[drew_meister]

You have dreadful living conditions, you re bleeding yourself dry to the benefit of your ex, and you bring up your kids as an excuse for your own doings.

 

It's not for the benefit of my ex and the kids aren't an excuse. They are the ONLY reason I'm doing it. I feel nothing for her and we agreed this arrangement ends as soon as the kids are grown or she meets someone else.

[drew_meister]

You're a bit of a train wreck and not really "relationship material" just now are you?

What does the future hold for any women dating you?

Or is your intention to slip into HER home and have her keep you whilst you continue to finance your ex wife and your kids?

What exactly would you bring to HER party?

An ex, a whole bunch of kids, no money and no doubt trouble ahead as she vainly vies for your attention.

 

It is all very admirable that you are keeping your family together and stable despite the divorce, but few single women will appreciate the fact you are doing so much for your ex to the detriment of yourself, and by extension to the detriment of any future plans you would have with her.

How could she envisage a long term future with you, when you are still almost totally immersed in your past?

 

I'm not a train wreck, but my living conditions are. Emotionally and physically I am very healthy and have no problem meeting women. I know I have a lot of other things to offer, otherwise she wouldn't still be interested in me.

[CarrieT]

It's not for the benefit of my ex and the kids aren't an excuse. They are the ONLY reason I'm doing it. I feel nothing for her and we agreed this arrangement ends as soon as the kids are grown or she meets someone else.

But what motivation does she have to move on or even start dating when she's got a meal ticket?

 

Seriously, your feelings for her are almost pointless. I wouldn't want to date you either because you are still financially tied to your Ex. You *are* damaged goods!

[JoeSmith357-1]

It's not for the benefit of my ex and the kids aren't an excuse. They are the ONLY reason I'm doing it. I feel nothing for her and we agreed this arrangement ends as soon as the kids are grown or she meets someone else.

 

Which is how long from now??

 

There's no way I would be willing to do something like that. Kids can find new friends, they adapt. You are subsidizing your ex's lifestyle... she's using the kids as an excuse, manipulating you in the process... there's no ****ing way I would do that.

[Redhead14]

I've been seeing this girl for a little over a month now. Things started off great. First date ended with a goodnight kiss. Second date and third dates involved dinner, drinks, and serious groping. Fourth date she wanted to come over to my place, which is a huge a problem right now. My housing situation is a basically a train wreck because of my divorce. I basically shuttle between 3 different places. My ex-wife and I still own a house together. She doesn't make enough money to keep it so I agreed to pay the mortgage. I'm doing this so my kids can stay in the same school with all their friends and have had minimal disruption to their lives. As a result, I can't afford my own place that is big enough for them. So when I have my kids, I stay with them at my parents house. Lastly, I rent a dingy room in a tiny rent controlled 2-bedroom apartment. It's totally unsuitable for bringing over female company. I sometimes stay over at my ex's (couch surf) to be around the kids more often.

 

So when she comes over for dinner, I decide to cook her dinner at my ex-wife's house, who was out of town for a week with the kids. She knows about my divorce, kids, living situation etc... and seemed fine with it. After dinner we had sex and it was very good for both of us. Understandably, she didn't want to stay the night. Anyway, our next date was about a week later at her house. She cooked this time and we had sex again. Afterwards, she told me she didn't want to have an exclusive relationship. I'm not even sure I want an LTR with her, but I definitely considered it a possibility until she said that. Maybe she's just a modern women and doesn't want to be tied down. But things seemed to be going so well until the dreaded living situation came up. I'm seeing her again next week, so we are still dating. We text a good amount too and everything else seems normal, but that sudden turn of events bugs. Does she see me as damaged goods or is this more about what she wants in a relationship right now?

 

Ladies, how would you react if a guy you were otherwise really into had such sordid living conditions?

 

She doesn't want an exclusive relationship with you PERIOD. It doesn't matter why. So, you date her if you want to but don't invest yourself in the relationship.

 

Your living situation apparently isn't a huge deal for her because . . . you are still dating.

 

And, any wise "dater" would be hesitant at best to even attempt a relationship with someone who is recently divorced, spending time at the ex's house and living out of three different locations.

 

If you date anyone, keep it casual. Don't even attempt to develop a deeper relationship until your situation is at least more manageable and have some sense of organization. It doesn't mean you are damaged goods, it simply means that you are not in a position to be a fully engaged relationship partner.

[drew_meister]

Sorry but I would not want to date you seriously either.

 

I understand that you want your kids to have a stable environment but Daddy hopping about all over the place is not stable for them.

 

I would want to see you in your own home that has space for your children when they want to come and stay with you. I would want to see your ex in her own home and your finances separated.

 

A jointly owned home etc is just another tie to your ex. Sorry but your ex = your responsibility. Not mine. Why should I be punished in terms of when I can stay over and my own finances because you have an ex? Why should I effectively end up paying for your ex?

 

Get support payments in place, get yourself sorted and properly split up from your ex. Then sensible women will date you seriously instead of just using you to get their rocks off.

 

We do have support payments in place and we are properly split up with a formalized agreement. In lieu of cash alimony and child support I pay the mortgage and property taxes directly which is almost $5K/mo. I can use the tax write-off since my income is much higher than hers. We all live in SF which is insanely expensive. My rent is another $700. One of the reasons I rent the room is that it allows my kids to attend an excellent public charter school. Almost all the public schools here are terrible unless you move out of the city and I certainly can't afford private school. Also I'm a realtor and have a long established reputation and client base in my neighborhood. So I need to stay in the area. If I move away and try to start in a new area my income would take a HUGE hit. I also need a nice car for driving clients around. So my hands are tied at the moment. I make a lot of money but realistically can't get my own place with room for the kids unless I shell out about another $3K/mo. That's just not sustainable.

[drew_meister]

And, any wise "dater" would be hesitant at best to even attempt a relationship with someone who is recently divorced, spending time at the ex's house and living out of three different locations.

 

We've been divorced over 4 years. I'm not recently divorced. I actually had a girlfriend I lived with for over 2 years but we broke up about 6 months ago. When she moved out, I could no longer keep my own place.

[CarrieT]

Hey, OP, I like in San Francisco as well, so I completely understand.

 

But you have hamstringed yourself into this situation. You say you are going to do this until the kids are grown? Than realize that you are also subsidizing a pretty comfy lifestyle for your Ex as well while you couch-surf. Seriously; what motivation does she have to meet anyone? None.

 

Resign yourself to the fact that you will remain damaged goods and essentially undatable as long as you are doing this "for the kids' education." Or until the real estate market turns in such a way that you can get yourself a better place to stay (which is, I know REALLY hard). Heck, I am married to a doctor who owns a private practice and we can't afford to buy in this market!

[elaine567]

I'm not a train wreck, but my living conditions are. Emotionally and physically I am very healthy and have no problem meeting women. I know I have a lot of other things to offer, otherwise she wouldn't still be interested in me.

 

She's only interested in casually dating you though. She has said she doesn't want to date you exclusively, she wants to be free to sleep with other men too.

She wants to leave her options open.

If she was truly interested in you, she would want to lock you down to exclusivity, for fear of losing you to some other woman.

[Redhead14]

We've been divorced over 4 years. I'm not recently divorced. I actually had a girlfriend I lived with for over 2 years but we broke up about 6 months ago. When she moved out, I could no longer keep my own place.

 

Even though it's been 4 years since the divorce, you are still tied to that relationship. Until you can "unhook" from the situation, you are carrying an albatross around your neck that prevents you from moving forward with your own life. You two are divorced and still own the house together and you are paying the whole mortgage payment which prevents you from having an established place of your own.

 

You and your ex made this arrangement, so you are not fully "divorced". Like I said, it's not that you are damaged goods, you just aren't relationship material yet. You are apparently a great guy, an invested father and are sacrificing an awful lot for their sake. That's admirable but doesn't make for a good dating environment if you want to develop a relationship with someone.

 

And, back to my point about being fresh out of a relationship -- you and your previous girlfriend broke up only 6 months ago. That's a pretty fresh wound. What caused that relationship to end? My concern is that given all you've been doing and going through, you may not be in an emotional position to start another relationship. Take some time for yourself to focus on you and your needs. You have to be exhausted by this arrangement.

 

Why is it that your ex can't contribute to the mortgage? She should be splitting it at least. Does she work? What is her life like?

[drew_meister]

Hey, OP, I like in San Francisco as well, so I completely understand.

 

But you have hamstringed yourself into this situation. You say you are going to do this until the kids are grown? Than realize that you are also subsidizing a pretty comfy lifestyle for your Ex as well while you couch-surf. Seriously; what motivation does she have to meet anyone? None.

 

Resign yourself to the fact that you will remain damaged goods and essentially undatable as long as you are doing this "for the kids' education." Or until the real estate market turns in such a way that you can get yourself a better place to stay (which is, I know REALLY hard). Heck, I am married to a doctor who owns a private practice and we can't afford to buy in this market!

 

Carrie, I think you get it more than others might who don't know SF!

 

If I sell the house, we're priced out of the neighborhood completely. I'd have to move the ex out to Livermore or even further out in the sticks. Since I have to stay near the city for my work, I'd see the kids much less.

 

So basically I'm stuck with one night stands and casual sex or never seeing my kids once I ship them and the ex to Modesto. Or I move to Modesto too where basically I'm dividing my income in half at BEST and the quality of women means I'd only be interested in one night stands and casual sex...

[smackie9]

She gave it a shot, then realized "I can't do this...." She obviously has certain expectations that you can't fulfill because of your situation. I don't blame her really. You are at a traditional stage of your life right now. Not really ready to take on sharing your life with someone....yet.

[JoeSmith357-1]

She's only interested in casually dating you though. She has said she doesn't want to date you exclusively, she wants to be free to sleep with other men too.

She wants to leave her options open.

If she was truly interested in you, she would want to lock you down to exclusivity, for fear of losing you to some other woman.

 

Yeah, but in his current situation, he's hamstringing himself for ANY relationship potential.

 

Seriously, he's one step away from being homeless, while his wife is living in his house he is paying for... this is ****ing nuts and angers me

[smackie9]

Carrie, I think you get it more than others might who don't know SF!

 

If I sell the house, we're priced out of the neighborhood completely. I'd have to move the ex out to Livermore or even further out in the sticks. Since I have to stay near the city for my work, I'd see the kids much less.

 

So basically I'm stuck with one night stands and casual sex or never seeing my kids once I ship them and the ex to Modesto. Or I move to Modesto too where basically I'm dividing my income in half at BEST and the quality of women means I'd only be interested in one night stands and casual sex...

Here in Canada we share custody (kids stay a week at each parents house) so there is no child support needed, but I'm not sure if you have such laws there. Get rid of the house, and assume renting where ever you both can afford. If the kids have to go to another school district then so be it...it's just part of life. You don't want to put yourself in the poorhouse just to keep your kids happy. It is what it is. You need a life too right???

[drew_meister]

Even though it's been 4 years since the divorce, you are still tied to that relationship. Until you can "unhook" from the situation, you are carrying an albatross around your neck that prevents you from moving forward with your own life. You two are divorced and still own the house together and you are paying the whole mortgage payment which prevents you from having an established place of your own.

 

You and your ex made this arrangement, so you are not fully "divorced". Like I said, it's not that you are damaged goods, you just aren't relationship material yet. You are apparently a great guy, an invested father and are sacrificing an awful lot for their sake. That's admirable but doesn't make for a good dating environment if you want to develop a relationship with someone.

 

And, back to my point about being fresh out of a relationship -- you and your previous girlfriend broke up only 6 months ago. That's a pretty fresh wound. What caused that relationship to end? My concern is that given all you've been doing and going through, you may not be in an emotional position to start another relationship. Take some time for yourself to focus on you and your needs. You have to be exhausted by this arrangement.

 

Why is it that your ex can't contribute to the mortgage? She should be splitting it at least. Does she work? What is her life like?

 

GF wanted kids and that's the last thing I need is more. Emotionally I'm fine. She had stronger feelings for me. I certainly wouldn't say it was a relationship for convenience but my lifestyle was much better having a companion and splitting expenses.

 

Of course I'm exhausted. I make $$$ yet live worse than I did when I was a 19 year old broke student...

[JoeSmith357-1]

We do have support payments in place and we are properly split up with a formalized agreement. In lieu of cash alimony and child support I pay the mortgage and property taxes directly which is almost $5K/mo. I can use the tax write-off since my income is much higher than hers.

 

So, a few things here...

 

1. I hope you sought legal advice for this. I have seen "agreements" ignored in court by judges because proper documentation was never drawn up. So for instance, the guy had been giving his ex child support payments in cash for 10 years (he worked as an "off the books" laborer, and his ex came back and got him for 10 years of BACK child support

 

2. Are you actually divorced, legally?

 

3. Who cares about the tax writeoff when you are borderline homeless? How much do you make, and what percentage of your income is going to this boondoggle?

 

We all live in SF which is insanely expensive. My rent is another $700.

 

Then move... I live in a town I can afford. I don't live in Monaco, or Hawaii, or Tokyo. Because I can't afford it.

 

One of the reasons I rent the room is that it allows my kids to attend an excellent public charter school. Almost all the public schools here are terrible unless you move out of the city and I certainly can't afford private school.

 

Sounds like another reason to MOVE.

 

Also I'm a realtor and have a long established reputation and client base in my neighborhood. So I need to stay in the area. If I move away and try to start in a new area my income would take a HUGE hit.

 

But your expenses would go WAY down. Who cares how much money you make, if you cannot afford your own place to live. Again, you are borderline HOMELESS

 

I also need a nice car for driving clients around. So my hands are tied at the moment. I make a lot of money but realistically can't get my own place with room for the kids unless I shell out about another $3K/mo. That's just not sustainable.

 

Your live is a trainwreck, and you need to make changes. Or you will be a homeless dude living out of your nice car, taking showers at the YMCA, while your ex-wife is living in a house YOU are paying for.

 

This is absolutely nuts.

[drew_meister]

Here in Canada we share custody (kids stay a week at each parents house) so there is no child support needed, but I'm not sure if you have such laws there. Get rid of the house, and assume renting where ever you both can afford. If the kids have to go to another school district then so be it...it's just part of life. You don't want to put yourself in the poorhouse just to keep your kids happy. It is what it is. You need a life too right???

 

Doesn't work that way in the US. The paternal rights are severely slanted in favor of the mother. I have 50/50 legal custody (decision making etc) but she has 70/30 physical custody which is very typical. I make MUCH more than she does and my child support and alimony is based off her percentage of physical custody. The more she has the kids, the more I have to pay. Double fuuck. Not only that, if we went to court, I'd have to pay attorneys fees for both sides. We avoided court with our written agreement. I'm paying more than if I had gone to a judge but not after attorney's fees. Plus I avoided a fight. I would owe about $3000/mo. cash each month. I'm paying just under $5K/mo. but its all tax deductible and I'm building equity in the house.

 

Since we bought the house in 2008, real estate has gone way up here. I'd have the down payment for another place but no bank would give us a loan based on my income. We'd be completely priced out of anything comparable for at least 50 miles in ANY direction. That's no joke. SF is INSANELY expensive. If I move that far away, I give up my career.

[Redhead14]

GF wanted kids and that's the last thing I need is more. Emotionally I'm fine. She had stronger feelings for me. I certainly wouldn't say it was a relationship for convenience but my lifestyle was much better having a companion and splitting expenses.

 

Of course I'm exhausted. I make $$$ yet live worse than I did when I was a 19 year old broke student...

 

The bottomline is that you started this thread to find out if the woman you are dating because she told you she didn't want a relationship with you and is apparently willing to simply date you casually, which is what you are really only capable of doing anyway. Since, you may be becoming more attached to her, I'd say move on from this one to prevent yourself from getting in too deep.

 

I'd also caution you because a woman who wants a relationship is going to be skeptical about you because if she is aware of your situation, she will be cautious because she might be wondering if you want a relationship with her simply for "companionship and splitting expenses". That's just a roommate.

 

Explore your options here. There must be something that can be done to take some pressure off yourself.

[drew_meister]

Why is it that your ex can't contribute to the mortgage? She should be splitting it at least. Does she work? What is her life like?

 

No she can't. She makes about $3K/mo. Even though she has an MBA, she didn't use it right away and then became a stay at home mom. She's in her 40's now so it's a worthless piece of paper. She's studying to become a licensed therapist as she really has no career path otherwise. She's either working or toting the kids back and forth from school, soccer, ballet etc. She's an excellent mom.

[Toodaloo]

Your ex may well be a great mother but you are in effect homeless, by your own decision, and if you think for a second she is going to just up sticks and move out of that house when the kids have grown you are mad.

 

if you think any sane single woman wants to take that on you are mad...