A guy is not kissing me after 4th date

July 2, 2016

I reckon Jen is right.
I could soooo imagine my 23yo son acting like this guy, he makes sexual jokes- yet he's a virgin. I think he's only ever kissed 2 girls in his life and he's never had a real girlfriend and he is really akward around girls....his 17yo brother is a regular Don Juan and trying to teach him the smooth moves...I could see the result being somewhat like the OP's scenario.

^ Also a lack of sexual contact doesn't preclude general contact like roughhousing etc., bc that's comparatively 'safe.' It also probably speaks to his desire for contact, which certainly contradicts the notion he's not into her at all.

I've actually dated a few guys like this over the years. Even had fun w/some of them after I got to the bottom of it and got them to relax.

July 2, 2016

Bad divorce. We dated for a few months over a year ago... He showed lots of interest but things slowed down and eventually stopped progressing - he told me he just wasn't ready for anything serious.

He contacted me again this spring and asked me out again. I was sceptical... We decided to be really casual and this time it took three dates before he decided this was really in it. And now, it's on;). I feel like he really trusts me now and he's more committed and moving faster than I am now...

Just saying, lots of people told me he wasn't moving fast enough and that I should not waste my time. I wondered if that was the case. But, it just took time for him to be comfortable and trust me.

Could be a really different situation for you... Maybe he is dating other people or there is some other reason why he isn't moving forward. Don't invest too much in the relationship, but maybe don't write him off for another few dates. If you are having fun with him, you have nothing to lose by hanging in just a little longer...

Thanks for sharing your stories. Now that you mention it, we have never really talked about exes. He sorta mentioned an ex very vaguely on the first date but as that was too early to talk about relationships, I steered the conversation elsewhere and we never touched on it. Next time I see him, I'll ask a bit more about his past although I do know that he's never been married, engaged and has no children. I'm glad everything worked out for you.

July 2, 2016

Hey All,

Thanks for all your replies.

1. He could be gay. I don't get those vibes at all, but anything is possible so sure it's a possibility.

2. I thought he was a player because he seemed really smooth in the way he talked to me, but I actually met him at an event with my friends. My friends met him and think he's a really nice guy but they said it was odd how he asked me out. He was confident approaching us and me, but he got so nervous to ask me out in person that he asked me out in text instead, when I was sitting next to him. I thought it was kinda cute, but retrospectively he could have been super nervous. I even remember him getting up and going to the bathroom while I was reading his text asking him out. Anyway he doesn't seem nervous talking to me at all so the way he asked me out was odd.

3. I've dated plenty of shy guys. I actually prefer them as I'm not super experienced sexually either. I agree that shy guys tend to get into kissing and being physical when you break the kissing barrier. Ironically, my ex, who is very experienced sexually got the nerves about kissing me and we did the pecking thing too. However, we pecked multiple times but it took till date 4/5 to make out as he felt very nervous around me. The making out didn't happen cause I wasn't sure about my feelings for him and was comfortable with pecking.

4. For the record, I give off the shy, innocent vibe to many men. I'm not sure why as I'm not shy at all but it's an aura I give off. I've dated men who are experienced and get the nerves about kissing me. One guy, who has been with many women, took a whole month to kiss me cause he felt uncomfortable about it. Yet our first kiss led to lots of making out and we dated for 6 months. I get that this guy may be getting the nerves but usually the kisses go somewhere.

5. I don't know if this matters but the guy seems to read a few personal development books. He mentions some kind of personal development book when we go out, which is great, but yeah could be an indicator that he is actually quite inexperienced. The last book he specifically mentioned discusses about how to deal with rejection from jobs and rejection from women and so on.

The last date was great, we really got deeper emotionally and I feel we click in some ways. I haven't felt this way in a couple of years so I'm fine with seeing where it goes, but yeah having a physical connection is important too. I tend to move slow in relationships, so a slow pace is fine, but I'd really like to escalate. At this time, I'll let him take the lead and initiate the next date as I do still have concerns he's just not attracted to me based on this lack of kissing.

July 2, 2016

If he's actually ducking the make out, now I'm thinking he's gay and just looking for a beard so he can keep telling himself he's not gay. He will deny it, of course. It really sounds a lot like this shy inexperienced guy I "gave a chance to" and not only was he gay, but he was also not a gentleman. Went to New Orleans with him and he wouldn't even hold my hand on Bourbon Street so we didn't get separated. Went camping with him and he wouldn't even get out of the tent at night when I had to go pee to just be there in the dark nearby scaring off snakes.

I am assertive, so when younger, I had no problem getting shy inexperienced guys interested in me since I'd bust a move even when they wouldn't. But that one that was gay, I tried to keep a friendship going with after I knew he was gay, but he was still jealous and hurt when I saw men who had sex. When I finally dumped him after a couple of years of seeing no way this was good for either of us, he moved right in with a dude who'd been after him the whole time. Sigh. I swore off being the only assertive one after that.

Thanks for sharing your story. I tend to avoid labeling people as gay if possible until they come out or unless its a good friend who I know who has not yet come out. My ex boyfriend, who I was with for 2 years and is now married to a wife, gave off gay vibes when dating. I was actually convinced he might be gay and he was also doing a lot of pecking. I tried to not get invested and then realized I was being judgmental by trying to make sense of his sexual orientation.

When we were in a relationship he expressed a lot of pain he faced over the years from people thinking he was hiding his sexuality based on X, Y and Z so he's aware he gave off those vibes to people. Anyway yeah he definitely didn't give off those vibes once we got into making out and the other stuff. And I now feel silly even remembering that I had my concerns he was gay when we were dating.

Point is, yes this guy could be gay, but I don't want to assume he is based just off the pecking as making that assumption could have prevented my last relationship.

July 3, 2016

Either he's gay and in denial or he really likes you and is maybe intimidated by you or fears rejection. I could only speculate what might make a guy do these things. My advise as a man is to just kiss him straight on go in for the kill. His actions will be the answer you need. If he runs for it again time to move along and find one that still has his mojo.

July 3, 2016

I need a guy that knows how to make a move...so I would've nexted him after the second date

But if you dont mind more passive/shy/awkward guys then I suppose you could give him more time

But as another poster mentioned...if things are already going wrong...and its only been a few dates....ehhh that doesnt bode well for the future

July 3, 2016

It's one thing if a shy inexperienced guy hasn't made a move after four dates.

But this isn't the case.

He's making sexual comments, and he came up and asked the OP out, so he's obviously not shy.

And even if he was, she actually tried to kiss him twice and he turned away.

Sorry, but that's either some very weird game playing, he doesn't like you, or he is Gay.

July 3, 2016

It's one thing if a shy inexperienced guy hasn't made a move after four dates.
But this isn't the case.
He's making sexual comments, and he came up and asked the OP out, so he's obviously not shy.
And even if he was, she actually tried to kiss him twice and he turned away.
Sorry, but that's either some very weird game playing, he doesn't like you, or he is Gay.

Mhmmm...he actually went so far as to turn away when the OP went in for a kiss...oh god I would be gone so fast that guys head would spin

July 4, 2016

He is not inexperienced, come on now.

A guy who *intentionally* turns his head when a chick attempts to kiss him is neither shy nor inexperienced . Give me a break.

A shy or inexperienced guy would welcome that kiss, be happy she took the initiative! Assuming he was attracted to her.

Definitely NOT turn his head. Twice! That's just silly especially after four dates!

He's playing a head game with her, to see how high she will jump .

OP stop playing and jumping.... move on, next.

It doesn't make sense a lot, what's the benefit for the guy with such a head game? I agree he's probably not shy or inexperienced. Maybe he's gay, not out of the closet and there's social pressure for dating a girl.

Gays like to friendzone girls.

OP, does he have a very high religious background?

July 4, 2016

Mhmmm...he actually went so far as to turn away when the OP went in for a kiss...oh god I would be gone so fast that guys head would spin

Ditto.

If a man blatantly rejects a kiss, twice, what more is there to be say or do? This is not how shy works. Shy and reserved people may be slow to initiate, it's not that they never do, and shy and reserved people will tend to respond well when the pressure is off them to initiate and the other does the initiating.

Look, I've given up on thinking dating is a charity or time for me to turn into a teacher of remedial lessons. If I have to spend more time dissecting odd behavior or coaxing a man into being okay with fairly normal interactions, I'm gone....that's simply not my ministry. So it really does boil down to what you're okay with. I think this is odd behavior and I wouldn't really be concerned about figuring out why personally, I would just be turned off....others are suggesting that there may be some great benefit awaiting you on the other side of this odd behavior and to keep on with it....that's your call to make. In my experience, that's never been the case. In dating you set your limits of what is reasonable, for me, this would be unreasonable, but it's up to you. A general rule of thumb that seems to work well, which another poster mentioned, is that if early on things are very difficult, weird, confusing or plain strange, instead of moving along organically, it's a sign you should walk away, as it rarely mysteriously improves.

Edited July 4, 2016 by MissBee

July 5, 2016

I need a guy that knows how to make a move...so I would've nexted him after the second date

That's exactly it, as a guy I expect to be the one to make the move which is what I tend to do. Usually on date one or two.

July 5, 2016

I've intetionally avoided a kiss because I knew my breath smelled like crap in that moment but was too embarrassed to say. I think you have to tell him you want to kiss him at this point and see what his response is.

July 5, 2016

This is an interesting topic for me at the moment.

I'm meeting up with a guy I went on 3 (spaced out) dates with tomorrow.

He never kissed me on any of the dates.

We had an amazing connection personality wise...great convo...he's good looking too....very italian looking...I like that.... but he never worked up the nerve to make a move...and like I said thats important to me

He said he was going to kiss me on the second date but I left abruptly...this is true (stupid move on my part and long story)

I really dont expect much from this date/meet up...we're just going to have drinks...I'm just exploring my options...not taking things so seriously

We'll see how it goes

July 5, 2016

^ You didn't run after no kiss on the 2nd date?? He's obvs gay.

(Nevermind why gay guys would spend so much time dating straight women. )

July 5, 2016

^ You didn't run after no kiss on the 2nd date?? He's obvs gay.

(Nevermind why gay guys would spend so much time dating straight women. )

Well she said she left very abruptly after second date so I guess she sort of did run..... lol

j/k... couldn't resist.

I get what you mean tho...

July 5, 2016

^ You didn't run after no kiss on the 2nd date?? He's obvs gay.

(Nevermind why gay guys would spend so much time dating straight women. )

Well she said she left very abruptly after second date so I guess she sort of did run..... lol

j/k... couldn't resist.

I get what you mean tho...

Lol no he's actually admitted to me that hes intimidated by my looks and that makes him act shy.....I know I've never given a guy a chance if he hasnt kissed me after the second date...but I kind of want to give him more of a chance since we click to well on our dates (besides the kiss issue)

I dont know if I'm making a mistake doing that...dont really have expectations though

July 5, 2016

He just doesn't want to make out yet and he wants to be the one to make the first move. That's all!

I think you made a mistake by making the first moves to make out and now you feel rejected. Let him go at the pace he wants. He probably wants to be the one to make the first move so he turns his head.

He may be like me where, before I make out, I want enough time to get to know the woman I am dating.

I remember a time I made out early on and my date was so giddy and excited. It was really cute but I felt pressure, like I had given a certain impression that I wasn't prepared to back up. As it turned out, after a few more dates some issues came to the surface and I stopped seeing her. I felt awful because by kissing her I set her up for more disappointment.

And it works the other way too, protecting your own feelings.

Seriously, what is the rush? I sound like an old dude but the younger generation is so darn impatient you can wait a few dates for a guy to feel comfortable before he gets hot and heavy with you? You ditch after two dates??

I would say sit back and let him do all the work and make the moves. PATIENCE! Don't talk about why he hasn't made out with you yet, it will only be really awkward.

Gay??? What the .....

July 5, 2016

He just doesn't want to make out yet and he wants to be the one to make the first move. That's all!

I think you made a mistake by making the first moves to make out and now you feel rejected. Let him go at the pace he wants. He probably wants to be the one to make the first move so he turns his head.

He may be like me where, before I make out, I want enough time to get to know the woman I am dating.

I remember a time I made out early on and my date was so giddy and excited. It was really cute but I felt pressure, like I had given a certain impression that I wasn't prepared to back up. As it turned out, after a few more dates some issues came to the surface and I stopped seeing her. I felt awful because by kissing her I set her up for more disappointment.

And it works the other way too, protecting your own feelings.

Seriously, what is the rush? I sound like an old dude but the younger generation is so darn impatient you can wait a few dates for a guy to feel comfortable before he gets hot and heavy with you? You ditch after two dates??

I would say sit back and let him do all the work and make the moves. PATIENCE! Don't talk about why he hasn't made out with you yet, it will only be really awkward.

Gay??? What the .....

Thanks for your reply. I'm not planning to bring up the making out thing just yet. I do recall on the first date (due to me thinking he might be a player) I had mentioned that I like to take things slow. He also mentioned wanting to take things slow with me too so its possible this is his way of taking things slow. I'm not in a hurry for sex at all, I'd just like to make out and take it up a notch. But its possible he might think making out would naturally lead to sex.

You might be right about me making the move and how that was a mistake. He seems kind of traditional in the sense that he likes to take charge on dates and such.

Anyway he's definitely interested as he's been texting me and we have a date this Friday night so fingers crossed that things progress or I get more clarity on what's going on.

July 5, 2016

Is this "no kiss by XYZ date" really being adopted as a significant issue? Just seems petty to me in comparison to so many other things that are more important in a relationship.

Anyway, given the circumstances of the OP's dates I'd say the guy is keeping his options open before committing, but being polite about it. The outright rejection/avoidance too...

July 5, 2016

Lol no he's actually admitted to me that hes intimidated by my looks and that makes him act shy.....I know I've never given a guy a chance if he hasnt kissed me after the second date...but I kind of want to give him more of a chance since we click to well on our dates (besides the kiss issue)

I dont know if I'm making a mistake doing that...dont really have expectations though

All my serious relationships didn't kiss me on the first date. My ex pecked me on the second and another relationship, the guy didn't kiss me till the 3rd as he was kinda nervous. I think 2 dates is a bit harsh to end things if everything is going so well. Give it time and maybe stare into his eyes and lean in so he gets the hint. That does the trick for me in the past.

July 5, 2016

It doesn't make sense a lot, what's the benefit for the guy with such a head game? I agree he's probably not shy or inexperienced. Maybe he's gay, not out of the closet and there's social pressure for dating a girl.
Gays like to friendzone girls.
OP, does he have a very high religious background?

He is not religious but he was raised Catholic and he has mentioned it several times even though I'm not religious. He has mentioned he's been more in touch with his spiritual side these days

July 5, 2016

It seems like you really want to give him a chance OP....which is of course you're prerogative....You know the situtation and him better than any of us.

I think there does need to be some balance between giving a guy a chance and nexting a guy right off the bat because he didnt make a move...maybe I've been too quick to do that in the past...maybe not

The only thing that really concerns me is the guy actually turned away when you went to kiss him. So its not really a matter of him being shy or inexperienced. I hate to say it hun but that was a bad sign.

I know you're going to move forward with him regardless...I just hope this doesnt turn out the way I think it will. Best of luck to you hun. In this case hope for the best but prepare for the worst

July 5, 2016

How do you think it will turn out? I'm not expecting much to be honest. I really enjoy his company so I'm going on the date to have a good time and enjoy a show I've been wanting to see for awhile. I don't have other plans Friday night so why not?

I'm not making a move this time and the venue is 5 minutes from his place and the show ends around 10pm so should be plenty of opportunity for him to try something. If nothing, not even an explanation I'll just treat him as a platonic friend from now on. thanks for your advice. I'm prepping for not making out or anything haha but I'm hoping he will surprise with some action

July 5, 2016

Gay??? What the .....

Good reasons for suspecting homosexuality would be he seems to like guys or that he seems repulsed by girls, not that he doesn't act like Mr. Cassanova or jump on you hard or fast enough. (Which then begs the question why is he dating you at all if he's gay, but never mind that. )

Ppl still tend to like to like to lay blame at the feet of gay ppl for society's ills despite the fact we've progressed quite a bit that way, so being gay is still an attractive scapegoat for almost anything. Seems like a loner? Might be gay. Etc. The reality tho is that it's usually more a matter of ppl projecting bc of their insecurities. Many women don't like to contemplate the idea that they don't make all men instantly foam at the mouth sexually bc it tends to invalidate their womanhood, so it's easier to say a guy must be gay than to think you just don't really get him going. Likewise a lot of guys I think secretly fear being unable to deliver at a high level so they seek to distance themselves by maligning the possibility as somehow inhuman rather than confront the fear and accept its innate humanity. That manifests as calling out underperformers as "gay" and thus safely implying that they themselves are of course much more studly bc they're not gay. :-/

July 8, 2016

Hey all. Thanks for all your amazing advice. The 5th date ended and lots of making out and cuddling happened, finally. I basically had to get intoxicated and I asked him what was going on. It's almost like he read this thread as he assured me he wasn't gay and enjoyed female attention. Apparently he felt mixed signals from me and didn't realize I was into him. He said he was convinced that the second date and so on wouldn't happen. He also said on the first date I had expressed concerns to take it slow so he was trying to respect me and show me that he wasn't looking for sex with me. I think when I kissed him last time it took him off guard and he didn't know how to respond. He also mentioned he easily falls for women and gets his heart broken so he's trying to take it slow to prevent himself from getting hurt, and he's trying hard to just let things flow naturally and not rush into a relationship.

Anyway we did plenty of making out, cuddling and holding each other so yes the chemistry is 100% there. I did get almost drunk but it was the 5th date so hopefully we will see each other again and see where things go. Just wanted to update everyone as this was very confusing for me.

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A guy is not kissing me after 4th date

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