Can the friendzone actually be a stepping stone?

[elaine567]

For some guys that's the best they can do.

 

OK but he is wasting his time, time that could be spent finding someone who does see him as a love interest, her one and only, her life partner.

[Jabron1]

For some guys that's the best they can do.

 

Alright, I'll cut to the bone.

 

In terms of looks, what would you rate yourself?

 

I think that I'm a 6 on a bad day, 7 on a good day.

[ZA Dater]

OK but he is wasting his time, time that could be spent finding someone who does see him as a love interest, her one and only, her life partner.

 

I think if anything reading this forum has also shown me that there are many, many guys who ride the wave of no success ever. My point I am getting at here is simple: is it not better for guys who never have any success to rather find a good friend, you get companionship and you can climb off that wave of rejection.

 

In other words stop looking and looking desperate at that because lets cut this right down and say if you have no success there is something about your which people don't like from a romantic, dating, sex point of view. Surely if you sell yourself as a friend rather than a date you may actually have more success from the companionship point of view.

 

How many guys who get rejected are kept on a friends? The answer is probably close to none.

[ZA Dater]

Alright, I'll cut to the bone.

 

In terms of looks, what would you rate yourself?

 

I think that I'm a 6 on a bad day, 7 on a good day.

 

I rate myself based on success and on that basis I rate myself a 0.

[Ensam]

Mate, I've had that plenty too. That's not the friendzone. That's a girl orbiting you, and waiting for you to make the move.

 

The friendzone is when a woman isn't sexually attracted to you, and you hang around trying to convince her. It's a real waste of time.

 

Maybe the guy has asked her out, or made a move, and she rebuffed it. But she wants to keep him around for whatever reason, so she offers the branch of friendship. That is the friendzone, and it straight up sucks.

 

My cousin (who is female) has a guy in the friendzone at the moment. He is orbiting her hard, and trying to win her affections by doing stuff like a chode. Since he has been around so much, driving her places, doing things for her, and turning up at family parties, I asked her if they are some sort of item. She was disgusted at the suggestion

 

It's always nice to be reminded of the basics.

 

If that's how you define the friendship zone then yes I can agree to some extent with what you're saying. It is however my impression that mostly when guys talk about being friendzoned, it has to do with missing that supposed extreme narrow window of opportunity due to not acting fast enough and then having the woman decide they are only friendship material and will be for all eternity. An idea I find quite ridiculous.

 

Stringing people along or using them isn't nice but men that acts like the guy hanging around your cousin also has themselves to blame for getting used. Doing people favours of course isn't automatically going to turn them on to you.

[basil67]

I cannot tell you how much the bold part grates me, I'd hate someone to be my friend simply to try and meet people through me.

 

Where do you get the idea that the sole reason for having a friend is to meet someone through them?

 

We hang out with friends because we like them. We enjoy their company. It's an added bonus that we may happen to meet someone through them.

[Snow_Queen]

I rate myself based on success and on that basis I rate myself a 0.

 

This is your first problem. Put a 1 in front of that number and convince yourself you're a 10. You have to act like you are worthy of a relationship.

 

Back to your question, yes you can get something from friendship. There are many benefits. Will your needs be met purely from a friendship?

 

At first, this might be true but as time goes on you'll feel what you're lacking. You want a close romantic relationship not a friendship. I'm sorry but there is no substitute.

 

Like others have said: it's possible to find love through friendship. I'm another one who grew close to a friend I've know for years. He doesn't know yet but he will.

 

There have been some orbiters posing as friends. They probably had the same idea as you. Going into a friendship with this idea is not a true friendship. Do you know why I like my one friend over others I've known? Here's a thought: he treats me like a person, an equal who has interests, a mind, emotions, etc. Maybe you're treating potential partners like royalty which comes off as desperate.

[ZA Dater]

Where do you get the idea that the sole reason for having a friend is to meet someone through them?

 

We hang out with friends because we like them. We enjoy their company. It's an added bonus that we may happen to meet someone through them.

 

Grates me because in my case usually involves the suggestion of hanging out with people I have no interest in for the sole purpose of "maybe they have friends".

[basil67]

It is loosing if you like her and she doesn't like you.

 

Yet in post 28 you say that perhaps it's better to have a woman as a friend than nothing at all. Companionship etc.

 

I find it interesting that you only talk about women who you are attracted to. What about friendships with women who you like as a friend but not in a romantic sense?

[basil67]

Grates me because in my case usually involves the suggestion of hanging out with people I have no interest in for the sole purpose of "maybe they have friends".

 

What about people who you do have interest in? Or are you completely uninterested in everyone?

[ZA Dater]

This is your first problem. Put a 1 in front of that number and convince yourself you're a 10. You have to act like you are worthy of a relationship.

 

Back to your question, yes you can get something from friendship. There are many benefits. Will your needs be met purely from a friendship?

 

At first, this might be true but as time goes on you'll feel what you're lacking. You want a close romantic relationship not a friendship. I'm sorry but there is no substitute.

 

Like others have said: it's possible to find love through friendship. I'm another one who grew close to a friend I've know for years. He doesn't know yet but he will.

 

There have been some orbiters posing as friends. They probably had the same idea as you. Going into a friendship with this idea is not a true friendship. Do you know why I like my one friend over others I've known? Here's a thought: he treats me like a person, an equal who has interests, a mind, emotions, etc. Maybe you're treating potential partners like royalty which comes off as desperate.

 

Again generally speaking, how many guys who struggle feel like they are a 10 looks wise, I'd wager very few do, when you are constantly rejected you feel unattractive, sure you can buy some nice clothing but that feel good only last for as long as the next rejection arrives or it doesn't last long at all. You put in the effort and get not so much as a compliment.

 

Most guys who are nowhere lack something for sure, sex appeal probably being high up the list, inter personal skills probably equally high, confidence again near the top of the list.

 

My scenario is this, someone might reject you as a love interest but accept you as a friend, the latter isn't ideal but its not outright rejection either.

 

You used the right word, what I am essentially looking for is substitutes, there simply have to be some viable ones or ways people cant get just a tiny bit of what they actually want, even if in the large scheme of things its insignificant and some might say pathetic.

[ZA Dater]

What about friendships with women who you like as a friend but not in a romantic sense?

 

I have none. If you polled the other guys here like me you would probably find the same with them.

[basil67]

I have none. If you polled the other guys here like me you would probably find the same with them.

 

Yes, I realise that you have no friendships wth women who you are not attracted to. This is why I'm suggesting you make some.

 

Having friends of either gender is where you need to start

[LookAtThisPOst]

This is a rationalization on your part.

 

Is the fear of rejection from other women really so crippling that you would be willing to orbit one woman in the friendzone - perhaps for years?

 

The friendzone is nothing but a detriment. Don't entertain it.

 

Funny this post was just recently posted. This one gentleman, he's been married since the mid-1990s. Since he was very young and still married to this day.

 

He said, "I was friends with my wife for a couple of years before we decided to move towards dating."

 

I've seen this happening a few times, the whole, "I married my best friend" or "Me and my wife were friends first."

 

Explain this? Maybe there's something to this?

 

Maybe they are ON to something here? Did they REALLY "waste their time" with these women?

 

These guys weren't obviously "friend zoned", somehow the familiarity of being around and getting to know the person that they just grew on each other over time.

 

I've heard people rationalize THESE instances like "Well, they were probably attracted to each other, but the timing was off." and I don't buy it.

 

They dated smart and didn't rely on anything like "the spark" or "chemistry" which happens immediately.

 

Obviously, they are doing something right. These wives/women saw the since in the long time friendships which made for suitable partners.

 

I see it all the time where women say, "Looking for friends first!"

 

Or I'd see these anniversary postings on FB, "I am celebrating my X anniversary, I married my BEST friend!"

 

Yet, single men are confused by this as they are scratching their heads thinking, "Hm, I was friends with the women I wanted to date...but they didn't want to be involved with me."

 

This goes to show that I think some of these people don't value this process, when this is typically the process that allows for stability in a relationship/marriage.

 

I also find it interesting, how this post exploded within hours. It seems that these "friend zone" and "nice guy" topic arguments go on forever and EVER on dating message boards on the Internet. It's a never ending argument.

[Jabron1]

LATP, they aren't doing anything 'smart' at all. They are settling for a low-interest woman out of desperation. They lack options.

 

I have a woman that I'm seeing right now. She is Italian, hot, sexual, a great cook, and she has been texting me Trainspotting songs all morning (I told her it was my favourite film). That is the sort of woman that you consider exclusivity with - not some bird that you have to convince for 6 months that you are actually a man that wants sex.

[LookAtThisPOst]

>>FWIW, if a guy had no women in his social groups, I'd probably be dubious about him. Why? Because it shows me that he has trouble relating to women. Or doesn't like women. Or can't ever find anything in common with a woman. Any of these would make him a poor candidate for a romantic partner.<<

 

ZA Dater, you said it's the bit in bold which kills most guys stone dead.

 

It's not 'most guys' who this kills off. Most guys can talk easily with women. They see us as the same species and treat us accordingly.

 

But perhaps you are referring to yourself? Before getting a girlfriend, you need to be able be comfortable with women. It's essential that you genuinely like the company of women if you're to get a woman attracted to you. If you can't talk to female friends and have easy banter, then you need to work on your social skills before your dating skills.

 

I guess he needs to find friends he's not attracted to. I have a male friend that has a philosophy to NEVER be friends with a woman that you are attracted to, but it's okay to be friends with women you're not attracted to.

[LookAtThisPOst]

LATP, they aren't doing anything 'smart' at all. They are settling for a low-interest woman out of desperation. They lack options.

 

 

Really, settling You don't know this at all. This married couple has been together for 20 years, so you're wrong. You think they "settled' for 20 years? lol

[Snow_Queen]

There's nothing wrong with seeking friendship with the opposite sex. Don't do it with the idea you'll move further along or have your needs met. Eventually, what you can get from the friendship will no longer suffice and you'll crave something more. Your hands wil be tied since your friend can neither offer something more nor be required to fulfill those needs.

 

There is an exception to all of this: I can say that most men I've dated, in my personal experience alone, wanted to move at lightening speed. They also expected a lot in little time and expected me to be 100% comfortable after x number of dates. Some women aren't comfortable with this and those women are more likely to consider a friend for a partner. Such women like safety and comfort.

 

Just FYI: I was in no way attracted to my friend before I fell in love with him. It was his warm personality that blew me away. You could have the same luck. What I'm saying is don't automatically expect it but it could be a possibility.

[elaine567]

Grates me because in my case usually involves the suggestion of hanging out with people I have no interest in for the sole purpose of "maybe they have friends".

 

You are just too rigid, most people are pretty relaxed about hanging out with other people, nobody usually hangs about with people they detest, but you do not need to be madly in love with the people you hang about with. They do not need to tick all the boxes to be your life long friend. They will have good points and bad points, you cannot just dismiss people solely on the fact you superficially think you have nothing in common with them.

I say superficially as you never seem to get involved with anyone enough to suss out if they are actually people you will get along with, your rigid rules do not allow you to do that.

Be more open and friendly with everyone and people will be more open and friendly with you.

I have a feeling you are not too good at body language, do some research, both as regards reading it and as regards how you may be coming across to others.

[Jabron1]

Really, settling You don't know this at all. This married couple has been together for 20 years, so you're wrong. You think they "settled' for 20 years? lol

 

Are you really that inclined to provide as your friend? I'm seriously not.

[elaine567]

You think they "settled' for 20 years? lol

 

NO, but I guess, they "settled" for the nearest warm body at the time.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Are you really that inclined to provide as your friend? I'm seriously not.

 

I have no idea what you mean.

[LookAtThisPOst]

NO, but I guess, they "settled" for the nearest warm body at the time.

 

Well, they haven't divorced...so no one got the 7 year itch apparently. I know quite a few people like this.

 

Of course the word "settled" these days is often mis-used. I mean, if they lasted THIS long, did they really "settle".

 

You see I've always put quotes around the word "settled" because that's a word that's defined differently by different people. Some deem it a bad thing sometimes, some...not so much...and some don't think that's the word that actually DESCRIBES what they did.

[ZA Dater]

You are just too rigid, most people are pretty relaxed about hanging out with other people, nobody usually hangs about with people they detest, but you do not need to be madly in love with the people you hang about with. They do not need to tick all the boxes to be your life long friend. They will have good points and bad points, you cannot just dismiss people solely on the fact you superficially think you have nothing in common with them.

I say superficially as you never seem to get involved with anyone enough to suss out if they are actually people you will get along with, your rigid rules do not allow you to do that.

Be more open and friendly with everyone and people will be more open and friendly with you.

I have a feeling you are not too good at body language, do some research, both as regards reading it and as regards how you may be coming across to others.

 

I am sure you hang out with people who have common interests? Or not?

 

Its not a superficial assessment at all, I have sat around table and found no interesting conversation at all, I have sat in lounge type clubs and found no interesting conversation either. Again how many people who have no success have this issue?

 

My guess is most, in fact I'd go as far to say most all have the same personality traits to lesser and greater degrees.

 

Did it also cross your mind that nobody wants to get involved with me? Its the honest truth they don't because I don't fit into what they like, again strangely enough I have read the same thing from other posters here.

 

As for body language, all I know is don't cross your arms as apparently this closed you off to people which sounds like the biggest lot of BS I have ever heard.

[elaine567]

Look we have established you are no Quasimodo, you express yourself well on paper so are no idiot either, you apparently have a good heart, but you are obviously lacking in the social skills necessary to make friends and attract women.

 

My guess is that you are giving off all the wrong signals and are not able to read the right signals either. I guess you do not come across as the average normal guy, you come across as weird or awkward or arrogant... etc.

Do not dismiss body language, it is very important,and a knowledge of it is necessary if you are going to interact with people effectively. To some it is completely natural, they can charm the birds off the trees without even thinking about it, for others they need to learn how not to unconsciously turn people off.

 

My guess is that if we could spend 1/2 an hour with you IRL we would know why you are unsuccessful with women and find it difficult to find friends. It may not even take that long...

That is why if I were you I would go to a dating coach, as they would tell you exactly where you are going wrong and how to fix it.