Cheating in a sexless marriage

[Sub]

I don't know if there's much reason to stay. If sex is important to you, you've communicated this with your H, and he's not being open and/or accommodating....I think you should plan an exit strategy.

[Mrs. John Adams]

This situation is so very complicated... And my heart actually breaks for you op.

 

My mind is reeling I guess.. Because in reality.. You married a fraud. You thought you were marrying a man... But instead you married a man Who wants to be a woman. If that information was not disclosed in the beginning... Then it is almost as if the marriage was all based on a lie.

 

I believe you had and have every right to divorce... And I honestly would not blame you for doing so.

 

But I have one particular problem in your story... You have asked your husband for an open marriage and he has refused and not only did he refuse he gave you reasons why.

 

So for me... You cannot and should not in good faith.. Cheat on him.

 

If he ever found out it would hurt him.

 

For me... Your best alternative is to divorce him and tell him why. He needs to know that you understand he is not capable... He needs to know you love and adore him as a person... But you have needs that he cannot provide...

 

He is not the husband you signed up for... But he is the person you have always loved.

 

 

He is who he is and you love him for who he is... But you want and need a husband that can provide for you a feeling of intimacy.

 

I confess ... Your situation is a difficult one... But I think you love and respect him and I think cheating on him says the opposite....

 

I am not a dr... Or a therapist... I don't ever profess to have all the answers

 

Your situation is sad... Because I hear your goodness and I hear your love for your husband... But I understand the disappointment you have felt all these years.

 

I truly am sorry....

[RecentChange]

Uff, yeah this sucks OP, I feel for ya.

 

Personally, while I usually do not recommend ultimatums, in this case I would say "open marriage or divorce".

 

Him declaring that he can not, and will not meet your needs, and that you can not get those needs met elsewhere is unreasonable and selfish.

 

It's not your fault or problem that he is unattractive. If it's something that bothers him, he should work on that.

 

And I suppose part of this is a tale of caution, if the chemistry and sex life isn't there before marriage, it's a very rare case that it develops after marriage.

[salparadise]

Somehow I feel that a 100% sexless marriage like mine morally justifies cheating... I love my husband and wouldn't like to leave him just to have sex with the other guy twice a year. Other guys have never been queuing at my door, so leaving both men and waiting for a third one with whom everything is perfect is not really an option. Do you condemn me for what I am doing? Or do you agree that it is a somewhat reasonable thing to do?

 

It's your life, but this isn't what you signed up for. You don't know what possibilities might present if you actually became available. You could divorce in the name of being authentic without having any animosity or ill will toward your husband.

 

What you have is a roommate who isn't what he represented himself to be, and the very person who was supposed to enable a lifetime of shame-free sexuality is expecting you to be asexual for the rest of your life. I don't think he's a bad person, he just has unreasonable expectations. He's the father of your child. You don't have to vilify him to get out of this mess, you just have to be assertive enough to say sorry, this isn't working for me.

 

You've already slept with the other guy, so it's not like the upcoming visit would be crossing the line for the first time. I wouldn't condemn you because your husband is not upholding his end of marital contract either, and because he has refused a reasonable compromise for selfish reasons.

 

But I also don't think sneaking around and having sex twice a year is the answer. I think a reasonable person would separate and maintain a compassionate friendship while at the same time pursuing a fulfilling life of your own... and having as much sex as you want, and with whom you want.

[dichotomy]

This is such a complicated situation.

 

As per the part below - you actually "kind of" did what some are advising you to do - you separated and left your husband..... For over 4 years.Thats a LONG time to be living a part. The only relationship you found in those 4 years was a FWB (or more like FB) situation with an ex. You felt alone - and that your separated husband was your soulmate.

 

Rock and hard place.

 

"I decided to move out with our son. In the next 4 years we lived separately but were still in a very close relationship. We spent almost every Sunday and every vacation together, and we still enjoyed each other's company.

 

At the same time I still felt that my husband was my soulmate and at the end I decided that a slight chance to bring sex back to my life was not worth all the time that I spent alone.

Edited June 28, 2016 by dichotomy

[Liam1]

Other guys have never been queuing at my door, so leaving both men and waiting for a third one with whom everything is perfect is not really an option.

 

Even if other men are queuing at your door, you still might never find someone who feels intellectually and marriage wise, like your soul mate.

 

I have never met a women with whom I feel more intellectually, emotionally and socially compatible than my wife. Our only difference is sex drive.

 

That is why people in France and Iceland, Finland, Spain, Norway, Germany, Denmark are NOT places where a DISCREET INFIDELITY would be cause for a divorce.

 

They are secure enough with their spouses to survive a DISCREET sexual dalliance. And DISCREET is the important part. Do not ask, do not tell.

 

The standard advice from people in the USA, despite the fact that 80 percent of USA folks are having affairs, is to immediately divorce if an affair is discovered.

 

It seems despite such high rates of cheating the people in the USA are more upset by a discreet affair, at least as reflected by the most common advice to divorce given on forums like these.

 

IMO an abusive, in your face affair, is a different story. But a discreet affair, one that takes nothing from the marriage time wise is not a reason to blow up the entire marriage and if you have children, ruin their family unit, too.

 

My wife and I feel this way. We were perfect together accept for the sex issue and her refusal to discuss it.

 

My affair brought that issue front and center for my wife and made her realize that intimacy is an important part of a marriage. Nothing else prior worked. No amount of discussion, or requests for counseling.

 

I never threatened to divorce because I do not believe in threats. If you wish to divorce, just file. I asked my wife if she wanted a divorce, but THREATENING to divorce someone, when a lack of sex is the issue, will only seem like bullying to her and to outsiders and to counselors.

 

Divorce is a serious choice and one best mean it when they threaten it. It's not a pawn in a chess game. Divorce is not a game.

 

Still, my guess, is that, like me, although you do not want a divorce, you do NOT fear one, if that is the outcome.

 

The attitudes in the USA are changing though and millennials are more likely to tolerate a DISCREET FWBs situation.

 

Do you condemn me for what I am doing? Or do you agree that it is a somewhat reasonable thing to do?

I do not condemn you. I do caution that you need to be okay with the fact that your spouse might divorce you if the affair is discovered.

 

Also, maybe if the affair is ever discovered it will be a wake up call to your spouse.

 

If there is no physical medical reason for the disinterest in sex. He needs to address and correct this issue.

 

I do not regret my infidelity at all. It saved my marriage and even improved it in many ways for both of us.

 

If my infidelity had caused my wife to divorce me, than so be it. My wife unilaterally chose to be celibate, but IMO, she had no right to force that decision on me.

 

IMO, particularly when refusal to have sex is an issue, an affair is the more mature option than a divorce.

 

I know a lot of people may disagree, and a few have proudly proclaimed that they just suffer in a sexless marriage, but, IMO, that is their problem and it will not solve anything for them. They are allowing their spouse to withhold sex and to emotionally abuse them by depriving them of sex, which is a normal human desire. Others proudly proclaim that they immediately divorced. Well, if they feel that blowing up their family was better choice, that is their problem, not mine.

 

Divorcing after an affair, IMO, is simply an ego thing. It is not about mature love.

 

Mature love understands that if you are denying a spouse a basic human desire than it would be unfair to expect them to NOT seek sex elsewhere.

 

As for those who say to divorce rather than have a sexual affair. Well, I say, my wife could have also divorced, rather than attempt to force celibacy on me.

 

She did not want a divorce. When I first broached the no sex issue, I offered her an amicable divorce, with half of everything, if she wanted one.

 

She emphatically did not want a divorce.

 

I emphatically did not want to give up sex, yet.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Liam1

[Sub]

I think the most mature option is communicating your needs, and then when there is a refusal to meet those needs or desire to compromise, communicating that you will be either leaving because of it or being with someone else. Honesty and transparency are mature.

[Pollyannaslim]

I am so very sorry for what is happening at this season in your life! You clearly are such a strong and supportive wife and I can only imagine how difficult, and painful, it must have been (and is) for you! Sadly, many just “throw in the towel” when their vows are being tested, don’t you think? What is so encouraging is that you still love your husband – that you enjoy each other and live in harmony. I do understand, though, how this must remain all very confusing to the both of you, yes? and am wondering if at any time you and he have sought counseling – both IC and MC? If so, would you consider revisiting this option? This is such a difficult situation and it seems as though a professional would be able to help you both find some much needed clarity. It is important, however, that you find someone who is compassionate and experienced in gender identity, marriage and intimacy issues. A therapist can also be very instrumental in directing your H to someone who can rule out any underlying medical issues that may be a factor.

 

 

 

Indeed, there are certain responsibilities that a couple have in a marriage – and yes… sex is a big part of that; such an incredible gift from God to be shared exclusively between a H/W. True, although I am not in your shoes, nor have I been, I am not unfamiliar with circumstances that would perpetuate a loss of desire for one’s partner, and having one’s needs met elsewhere is understandably a temptation. What I can share from experience, however, is how destructive infidelity can be. Whatever might be behind the “why,” the emotional fallout, so to speak, is without boundary. In other words, even those who aren’t directly involved feel the impact and recovery for all is a long hard road.

I guess, at this point, it is pretty obvious that I am a huge advocate of marriage, yes? Please don’t misunderstand, I do not think anyone should be miserable in a marriage, but I do believe that with A LOT of hard work, therapy, open and honest communication, compromise and prayer, wonderful things can happen and two people who love each other CAN have the kind of marriage God intended. I have personally witnessed how time and commitment from both parties can restore a marriage most would find unsalvageable; reaching a different level of love that they never thought possible.

 

 

Orangerie, I will keep you in my prayers! Please check back and let us know how you are doing.

-P

[TrustedthenBusted]

sexless and marriage don't belong in the same sentence.

 

If you have one, you have no business having the other.

[Liam1]

I forgot to mention that I did suggest an open relationship not long after we moved back together but he refused, saying that it would probably be one-sided (as he does not look very manly and is quite overweight, he would probably not find a partner). Besides, he would be worrid that I fall in love with the partner I may find.

 

That may or may not be the root of his reason for not wanting an open marriage. He probably is afraid of losing you to someone else.

 

Does he want to stay married?

[Lobe]

A therapist can also be very instrumental in directing your H to someone who can rule out any underlying medical issues that may be a factor.

 

...Please don’t misunderstand, I do not think anyone should be miserable in a marriage, but I do believe that with A LOT of hard work, therapy, open and honest communication, compromise and prayer, wonderful things can happen and two people who love each other CAN have the kind of marriage God intended.

 

I don't believe being trans is a spiritual issue, mental illness, or a medical condition.

 

Are you suggesting the answer to fixing this situation is to pray (or therapize) the gay away so the marriage can survive? Because that would only be prolonging the unfortunate circumstance of a trans man trying to live straight and continuing to cause the problem created by living a lie in the first place...

 

Sometimes it's better to pray for a healthy divorce than an unhealthy marriage.

[salparadise]

That is why people in France and Iceland, Finland, Spain, Norway, Germany, Denmark are NOT places where a DISCREET INFIDELITY would be cause for a divorce.

 

The standard advice from people in the USA, despite the fact that 80 percent of USA folks are having affairs, is to immediately divorce if an affair is discovered.

 

It seems despite such high rates of cheating the people in the USA are more upset by a discreet affair, at least as reflected by the most common advice to divorce given on forums like these.

 

 

It's refreshing to hear someone speaking frankly and realistically on this topic. Responses on LS often tend toward black/white thinking and moral absolutism. I suspect that it's largely because a disproportionate number of people joined here because they've been deeply hurt and resorted to absolutism as a means of coping. Then they're the first and most frequent to post in threads involving infidelity.

 

I think the reality in the US is a lot less black and white than is represented here. Of course it's difficult to get valid research on the numbers, but if I had a dollar for every instance of infidelity that I know of that did not result in divorce, or even serious upheaval in the relationship, I'd be a very rich man.

 

When I was going through divorce (infidelity not the reason) I had a therapist who was originally from Eastern Europe. We talked a lot about sex, and her perspectives were much less rigid than the local bible belt mentality. Value systems are highly variable by culture and geography, and the view that infidelity necessitates divorce is much more a cultural phenomenon here than in the rest of the world.

 

This seems to be true historically as well. In Victorian England it was common for upper class men to take a mistress after finished having children with their wives, and was seen as an acceptable solution, or even a generous one, when the wife was no longer interested.

 

Human beings are sexual animals, and not monogamous by nature. At best we strive for serial monogamy as opposed to actual monogamy. All of the judgement associated with infidelity is based on a presumed norm that doesn't actually exist. It's a standard that we attempt to adopt and enforce via an acquired value system that many believe to be the only moral way of being... and then when reality doesn't turn out to be as absolutist as the value system we judge it as a total failure, or the work of the devil.

 

Personally, I want to be a good serial monogamist and hope that my partners will be as well. But if for some reason one of us were unable to continue meeting the other's sexual needs, I can't say that getting one's needs met discreetly outside of the marriage would be worse than divorce, or would necessitate divorce.

 

The OP's situation is complicated. If she really thinks of her husband as her soulmate and wants to remain with him despite his transgender tendency and absence of sexuality in the relationship, who is to say that she should feel shame for getting her sexual needs met occasionally in the way she describes?

[Mrs. John Adams]

It's refreshing to hear someone speaking frankly and realistically on this topic. Responses on LS often tend toward black/white thinking and moral absolutism. I suspect that it's largely because a disproportionate number of people joined here because they've been deeply hurt and resorted to absolutism as a means of coping. Then they're the first and most frequent to post in threads involving infidelity.

 

I think the reality in the US is a lot less black and white than is represented here. Of course it's difficult to get valid research on the numbers, but if I had a dollar for every instance of infidelity that I know of that did not result in divorce, or even serious upheaval in the relationship, I'd be a very rich man.

 

When I was going through divorce (infidelity not the reason) I had a therapist who was originally from Eastern Europe. We talked a lot about sex, and her perspectives were much less rigid than the local bible belt mentality. Value systems are highly variable by culture and geography, and the view that infidelity necessitates divorce is much more a cultural phenomenon here than in the rest of the world.

 

This seems to be true historically as well. In Victorian England it was common for upper class men to take a mistress after finished having children with their wives, and was seen as an acceptable solution, or even a generous one, when the wife was no longer interested.

 

Human beings are sexual animals, and not monogamous by nature. At best we strive for serial monogamy as opposed to actual monogamy. All of the judgement associated with infidelity is based on a presumed norm that doesn't actually exist. It's a standard that we attempt to adopt and enforce via an acquired value system that many believe to be the only moral way of being... and then when reality doesn't turn out to be as absolutist as the value system we judge it as a total failure, or the work of the devil.

 

Personally, I want to be a good serial monogamist and hope that my partners will be as well. But if for some reason one of us were unable to continue meeting the other's sexual needs, I can't say that getting one's needs met discreetly outside of the marriage would be worse than divorce, or would necessitate divorce.

 

The OP's situation is complicated. If she really thinks of her husband as her soulmate and wants to remain with him despite his transgender tendency and absence of sexuality in the relationship, who is to say that she should feel shame for getting her sexual needs met occasionally in the way she describes?

 

 

Very simple answer ... Because she asked his permission and he said no.

 

And perhaps if in your relationship you had suffered infidelity and the pain it causes you would have a different opinion.

[Sub]

I don't believe in built-in justifications such as "monogamy is outdated/humans are sexual animals". I also don't think it applies to this situation at all.

[spanz1]

I forgot to mention that I did suggest an open relationship not long after we moved back together but he refused, saying that it would probably be one-sided (as he does not look very manly and is quite overweight, he would probably not find a partner). Besides, he would be worrid that I fall in love with the partner I may find.

 

 

 

well that was a long time ago. ASK again! Point out that you will be leaving anyway unless you can get more sex, because you found out you can not take a 100% sissy relationship with him

[Liam1]

well that was a long time ago. ASK again! Point out that you will be leaving anyway unless you can get more sex, because you found out you can not take a 100% sissy relationship with him

 

Excellent suggestion.

 

Bring up the open relationship again, unless he addresses his sexual issue.

 

My MC told my wife she was being emotionally abusive by denying intimacy, without a valid health reason.

 

Your spouse needs to address this issue.

[Pollyannaslim]

I don't believe being trans is a spiritual issue, mental illness, or a medical condition.

 

Are you suggesting the answer to fixing this situation is to pray (or therapize) the gay away so the marriage can survive? Because that would only be prolonging the unfortunate circumstance of a trans man trying to live straight and continuing to cause the problem created by living a lie in the first place...

 

Sometimes it's better to pray for a healthy divorce than an unhealthy marriage.

 

Oh absolutely not. Personally I just feel there are A LOT of things going on here and many things need to be addressed, however, I am not qualified to disect every aspect of their marriage. I believe praying can give one clarity and guidance when making some very tough decisions - whatever they may be.

[salparadise]

[/b]

 

 

Very simple answer ... Because she asked his permission and he said no.

 

And perhaps if in your relationship you had suffered infidelity and the pain it causes you would have a different opinion.

 

Or perhaps I can be more objective because I didn't. As I said, a lot of the unrealistic moral absolutism here is reactionary, and from people of a certain belief trying to convince everyone else that theirs is the only correct way.

Edited June 29, 2016 by salparadise

[Mrs. John Adams]

Or perhaps I can be more objective because I didn't. As I said, a lot of the unrealistic moral absolutism here is reactionary, and from people of a certain belief trying to convince everyone else that theirs is the only correct way.

 

there is no correct way...there is the way that is best for you in your circumstance.

 

There are some hear that would agree with your approach....but since you admitted you had no experience with infidelity....while you may be objective about it...i have lived it for 33 years. I don't try to make others do things my way...I simply share with them how we have handled it....and what has worked and what hasn't. We have made plenty of mistakes along the way.

 

In none of my posts will you see me say I do it the best way and i have all of the answers.

[pteromom]

If you are happy with everything about your lives together except for the lack of sex, that isn't a reason to get divorced.

 

But it's not fair for him to force you to live without sex either.

 

I think it is time to bring the idea of an open marriage up again. Be kind and open and honest and say that if he is not on board with it, you will have to consider your options.

 

But don't go behind his back. Because it isn't even about cheating on HIM. It's about selling out your integrity. I assume that you hold values about marriage - that your vows are sacred and that when you made those promises, you meant them.

 

So by breaking them, you are being untrue to YOURSELF.

 

There are only a few options here:

 

- Get him on board with it.

 

- Let go of him as a husband, and enjoy him as a friend and co-parent.

 

- Re-commit to being faithful and go to counseling together to see if you can work through his identity issues and find some way to build a sex life together.

 

But cheating isn't the answer.

[heartwhole]

I forgot to mention that I did suggest an open relationship not long after we moved back together but he refused, saying that it would probably be one-sided (as he does not look very manly and is quite overweight, he would probably not find a partner). Besides, he would be worrid that I fall in love with the partner I may find.

 

You have a very difficult situation and I wish you well in navigating it. I just wanted to add that your husband's response was all about him. . . . He is worried he couldn't find a partner. He is worried you'd leave him for someone else. Is he at all concerned about you, that you want sex and he can't give it to you?

 

I think individual and joint counseling would be beneficial to you both. I respect your husband's right to live his truth, but I also think that if two people can't meet each other's needs in a marriage, then they need to end the marriage or make it open so that those needs can be met in other ways. Saying you can't have your needs met because of fear and selfishness is not a loving thing to do, IMO.

[spanz1]

I do not know a whole lot of actual sissy/transsexual married guys. But I hear that they sometimes enjoy finding male partners for their wives. THat makes them involved, at least somewhat, in it all. Maybe you give him approval/reject rights. Maybe you agree you will only see a particular man no more than 4 times, so an emotional relationship does not form. Maybe that is one aspect of this bizarre bedroom relationship that might work???

[salparadise]

 

There are only a few options here: (that are acceptable to pteromom)

 

- Get him on board with it.

- Let go of him as a husband, and enjoy him as a friend and co-parent.

- Re-commit to being faithful and go to counseling together to see if you can work through his identity issues and find some way to build a sex life together.

 

But cheating isn't the answer.

 

 

Bzzzzzt. While it may not be your favorite flavor, it certainly is an option.

[Orangerie]

Thanks to all of you for pondering my situation and coming up with so many ideas on how to solve it. Some comments:

- We have had counseling several times with various shrinks, starting when we were not even married. It didn't really help because no matter what we learnt about ourselves and each other, we couldn't make use of those things in our everyday lives. So it was more interesting than useful for us.

- We live in a post-communist country in Central Europe where transsexuals who come out have very difficult lives, so I would never encourage my H to continue his transformation. He would have no job any more, no relation with his parents, no friends, almost nothing would be left of his current life. Besides, it would be very hard if not impossible for our soon-to-be-teenager son to understand and accept his father's strange looks and the way he has changed.

- My H is not solely responsible for the lack of our sex life - a few times a year he still tries to initiate something more intimate than hugging and it is me who cannot react properly as I just cannot see the man in him. Some of you said that he was more like a girlfriend for me; this may be the root cause of our problems, I guess.

 

I think I will try and bring up the topic of open marraige with him again as some of you suggested. If it doesn't work out, then I will have to think again and either accept life without sex or go for the affair. Divorce is something I am reluctant to consider... I knew what I was in for when I moved back with my H so it wouldn't really be fair with him.

[66Charger]

I dont understand the debate.

 

The husband is wearing dresses and lipstick, That is who he is. He flipped the script.

 

You cant.do stupid stuff in a relationship and expect acceptance.

 

Honestly, you shouldnt even ask for the open marriage. It should be a condition for you staying.